anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Adrian009 wrote: »

But if that's the case then surely he committed crimes by

1 - being a member of the IRA
2 - supporting the IRA
3 - carrying out lord know's what kind of crimes in the name of the IRA.

For example, he is believed to have been the IRA commander who authorised Bloody Friday. Why should we then vote for a person who committed such acts?

There's the problem, it's all just speculation. I feel that you strongly believe that he is/was a member which is fine. We're all entitled to believe what we wish. But here's the problem, he won't admit and frankly, we can't prove it (as far as I know).
Even if he did actually "support them" (not just not condemning them), then how did he do it?
And you have no proof (or he'd have be charged, at least) of his "crimes". Frankly, for all you know he just thought they were a charming bunch of lads and wanted to go for tea. I know it sounds daft but unless you really can prove it, I don't see why you would want others who don't believe what you do to not vote.

I know I said I do believe he was a member but that's it. I honestly don't see what the big deal was about him being a member. I don't think his intent was malicious to join, I think he was just some Irish guy who joined because he wanted the 32 counties. Sure, there are better ways to go about it like politicts (as he is doing now) but he was in his teens/20s (far as I read), people make mistakes. Even the most vile human being has a chance at redemption, no?

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

There's the problem, it's all just speculation. I feel that you strongly believe that he is/was a member which is fine. We're all entitled to believe what we wish. But here's the problem, he won't admit and frankly, we can't prove it (as far as I know).
Even if he did actually "support them" (not just not condemning them), then how did he do it?
And you have no proof (or he'd have be charged, at least) of his "crimes". Frankly, for all you know he just thought they were a charming bunch of lads and wanted to go for tea. I know it sounds daft but unless you really can prove it, I don't see why you would want others who don't believe what you do to not vote.

I know I said I do believe he was a member but that's it. I honestly don't see what the big deal was about him being a member. I don't think his intent was malicious to join, I think he was just some Irish guy who joined because he wanted the 32 counties. Sure, there are better ways to go about it like politicts (as he is doing now) but he was in his teens/20s (far as I read), people make mistakes. Even the most vile human being has a chance at redemption, no?

Gerry Adams support of the IRA is not speculation, it is fact.
He supported members of a criminal organisation who murdered thousands of Irish people.
The IRA and its supporters still believe it to be the only legitimate army and government for the people of Ireland.
How can that belief be squared with participating in the democratic process? If Sinn Fein ever ends up in government, which army will draw upon, the Defense Forces or the IRA?

gsxr1 wrote: »

No 1 and 2 . Yes he was and does .. This is common knowledge. Lets call a spade a spade. I know at least 30 people how have been involved . Thousands of people where in some way or another.

No 3. very general. And unfounded .


-Thats quite an accusation . Could you provide any evidence of being the man who ordered Bloody Friday?

Can you?

Dotsey wrote: »

For starters as I said in a subsequent post I gave that reply from the perspective of taximen and I know a few and thats their opinion not mine which is why I used the quotation marks.
Paolo brought up the issue of taximen with this "Funnily enough, one of SF's target demographic groups - taxi drivers - has some of the most racist people I have ever met." and I replied to it. Now he calls me a racist because he cant read my post properly like you or he deliberately misread it to read what he wants it to read.
And by the way I'm not associating myself with any organisation.

This is the post. The only thing in quotes is the term "blacks".

When you're livelyhood has been taken over by "blacks" coupled with a recession and less people using taxis they vent their anger at "blacks" who I have to admit have Dublin city centre swamped with taxis. A lot of the African drivers have had their taxis set up and paid for by the social welfare and any I've been in had a shocking lack of local geographical knowledge. You have to remember that a lot of the Irish drivers paid large sums for their plates before deregulation. So although wrong its understandable. Most taxi drivers are union members anyway and the unions have been advising people in a veiled way to vote Labour actually

You repeat the myth that Taxis are paid for by Social Welfare.....

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

In this country a man is innocent first, guilty second. You claim he broke the law in the name of the IRA, how did he do it?

You mentioned your own belief of Adams's membership of the IRA, which I pointed out would have been a crime. I went on from that to assume that, if he was indeed a member of the IRA (as you believe), he may have carried out or directed actions by the IRA, most of which resulted in murder. Is not murder a crime?

gsxr1 wrote: »

No. Why would I ask if I could?

I don't know. Why would you?

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Not in the slightest. He's still a man. As a man, he is entitled to have an opinion. He was elected by his party to represent them. The IRA, while basically a bunch of civilians with weapons, are still a political group. They felt they were being given the same treatment through peace so they used force. Frankly, I don't like what they did but I can understand why they did what they did.

Now, as for this. My personal opinion aside, I would like you to show me prove he authorised the murder of human beings.

The IRA were NEVER a political group. They never stood for election. They were not a political party. They were a millitant group who sought to ENFORCE political chance though COERCIAN. Utterly undemocratic.

You say you don't like what they did. Okay, but would you support what they did?

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Now, as for this. My personal opinion aside, I would like you to show me prove he authorised the murder of human beings.

I can't and I don't. His membership of the IRA is irrelevant to me. His support for the IRA is relevant to me. And in supporting the IRA he supported their murder of some seventeen hundred people, many of whom were Irish.

Can you understand now why I have a problem with him? He wishes to represent the people of Ireland, yet he has supported the murder of Irish people.

Adrian009 wrote: »

I can't and I don't. His membership of the IRA is irrelevant to me. His support for the IRA is relevant to me. And in supporting the IRA he supported their murder of some seventeen hundred people, many of whom were Irish.

Can you understand now why I have a problem with him? He wishes to represent the people of Ireland, yet he has supported the murder of Irish people.

Stop backtracking. You told me he was at fault for the murder of other humans. I want you to backup this fact, otherwise it's just an opinion you have which is obviously, not based on facts as you can't show me any.

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Yes and no. I wasn't old enough to fully understand them at the time. But... yeah. I don't not support them. I would (if in a perfect world) obviously would prefer them to not use violence but sometimes violence is needed.

BTW, any reason you refused to show prove of his crime of murder?

I agree, sometimes violence is needed. But millionss of Irish people north and south refused to join or support the IRA. They made very plain their disgust at the IRA and its supporters time and time and time again over the course of the Troubles. But despite claiming to represent all Irish people, they continued right up to 2006.

As to the issue of Adams's membership of the IRA, I direct you towards the following:

http://irishrepublicanarmy-ira.blogspot.com/
http://hubpages.com/hub/Brendan-Hughes
English, Richard (2003). Armed Struggle: The History of the IRA. Pan Books. p. 110. ISBN 978-0-330-49388-8.
Moloney, Ed (2002). A Secret History of the IRA. Penguin Books. p. 140. ISBN 978-0-14-101041-0.
O'Brien, Brendan (1999). The Long War: The IRA and Sinn Féin. O'Brien Press. p. 130. ISBN 978-0-86278-606-9.
The long war: the IRA and Sinn Féin, Brendan O'Brien, p169. Books.google.co.uk. 1999. ISBN 978-0-8156-0597-3. http://books.google.com/?id=Io085Nl0CJQC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=ira+delegation+myles+shevlin+william+whitelaw&q=ira%20delegation%20myles%20shevlin%20william%20whitelaw.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sinn-fein-where-does-the-money-come-from-168228.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2288775.stm

Despite threatening to sue dozens of people who claimed he was in the IRA, Adams has in fact never brought such a case to court.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Not suggesting you voted for them, but FF/GP also backed murderers through assisting US forces in illegal wars.
Which doesn't make it right, but the Irish electorate have no problem supporting murderers.

That is to suggest that I voted FF or GP. Such a suggestion is pernicious!

danbohan wrote: »

your concern for irish people is most touching , one wonders where was your concern for your fellow irish people when they were been murdered and burned out of their homes by loyalist mobs in 1969/70 , of course you might not have been born then , but many of your type who fill pages on boards with anti sinn fein rhetoric were happy to stand idly by and allow it to happen .

Meaning that SF members did not stand by. So, what did they do to counter such acts?