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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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Comments

  • #2822
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What's even more nuts is that they are apparently hard-left and hard-right at the same time. That must make them a centrist party I suppose.:D
    it's not that nuts. The Nazis were socialists and I think most would agree that the BNP are right wing but I think most of us can see a lot of commonality. To say a party has similarities with either of these does not mean that they are the same, or are even near each other on the political spectrum. Nationalism does not have a particular spot on said spectrum. It can be embraced by either wing.


  • #2823
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Why is everyone so angry?

    I voted for SF and I think I made the right choice. Their policies make sense to me and I think they'd be best.

    Does it honestly matter what they did so many years ago? Or what they're suposed to have done? Honestly, if any of you actually care about Ireland, wouldn't you want the best leader now instead of talking about history that isn't the same as today?


  • #2824
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Unless you happen to be Protestant, Unionist, & British!

    Bloody hell, that last sentence is hilarious :rolleyes:

    Well I'd put SF/IRA in the same bracket as the Nazi's, but Fine Gael & the DUP both being religious fundamentalists? is just silly, but funny :D

    Don't forget that the IRA collaborated with the Nazis during World War Two, and Sinn Fein still honour the memory of IRA members who did so.


  • #2825
    bmarley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 356 ✭✭bmarley


    Just did, got my no.1 - maybe there's hope for a brighter future:)


  • #2826
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    lugha wrote: »
    it's not that nuts. The Nazis were socialists
    Oh JC, not this again.
    The German Nazi Party claimed to be socialists.
    The Russian Communist Party claimed to be communists.
    If you look up the definitions of those political ideologies you see they have no connection with the actions of those parties other than being in their titles.


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  • #2827
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,793 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    Don't forget that the IRA collaborated with the Nazis during World War Two, and Sinn Fein still honour the memory of IRA members who did so.

    i call godwins law


  • #2828
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    Don't forget that the IRA collaborated with the Nazis during World War Two, and Sinn Fein still honour the memory of IRA members who did so.
    DeValera was a big fan too I believe.;)


  • #2829
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    maccored wrote: »
    i call godwins law
    Pay attention. The anti-SF crowd pulled that predictable nonsense ages ago.


  • #2830
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    Why is everyone so angry?

    I voted for SF and I think I made the right choice. Their policies make sense to me and I think they'd be best.

    Does it honestly matter what they did so many years ago? Or what they're suposed to have done? Honestly, if any of you actually care about Ireland, wouldn't you want the best leader now instead of talking about history that isn't the same as today?

    But their support for the IRA is not 'many years ago'. The IRA only disbanded in 2006, and the Sinn Fein leadership still continues to associate the party with the IRA. It has never condemmed its actions. Plus, Adams and McGuinness have been among the highest-ranking members of Sinn Fein since 1983. In other words, the Sinn Fein men supporting the IRA in 1983 are the same Sinn Fein men leading the party today in 2011.


  • #2831
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,793 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Pay attention. The anti-SF crowd pulled that predictable nonsense ages ago.

    desperation, as usual. SF got my vote so I dont give a toss what the anti shinners think.


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  • #2832
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    DeValera was a big fan too I believe.;)

    Really? In what way did he collaborate with the Nazis?


  • #2833
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    maccored wrote: »
    i call godwins law

    I have no idea what that means.


  • #2834
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    But their support for the IRA is not 'many years ago'. The IRA only disbanded in 2006, and the Sinn Fein leadership still continues to associate the party with the IRA. It has never condemmed its actions. Plus, Adams and McGuinness have been among the highest-ranking members of Sinn Fein since 1983. In other words, the Sinn Fein men supporting the IRA in 1983 are the same Sinn Fein men leading the party today in 2011.

    It is many years ago compared to today. Since I finished school in 2006, the world has pretty much screwed us over in terms of Bertie and Biffo. I'd even go as far back to say when I started it in 2001 that were weren't doing well. I think we should have based our vote on we think is the best to get us back on our feet, not what they used to believe.


  • #2835
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,793 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    I have no idea what that means.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
    For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress


  • #2836
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    Really? In what way did he collaborate with the Nazis?

    Where did I say he collaborated with them?
    I'm a Man United fan but I don't play for them.
    Dev was certainly sad the day Adolf popped his pill and clogs. He even told the German people so.:D


  • #2837
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Nodin wrote: »
    Apart from the crap about social welfare paying for taxis, you do realise that post is full of the kind of thing that SF is totally against? Please don't associate yourself with an organisation you clearly know nothing about.

    QED. There are LOADS of SF supporters who think like him. That's the irony of the whole thing. The anti-fascist party full of racist supporters. :rolleyes:

    Aside from pie-in-the-sky populist bull**** policies, SF idealogy is a complete nonsense when you scratch the surface of a lot of - not all - but a lot of their supporters. I've heard it all. "Nothin' wrong with robbin' banks, sure haven't they been robbin' us for years..." etc.. "Bleedin' blacks... too many of them taking our work" etc..

    I'd say between those and the protest votes you probably have at least 50% of SF support. The protest votes will probably be back to giving out about SF in a weeks time when they've calmed down about FF!


  • #2838
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    It is many years ago compared to today. Since I finished school in 2006, the world has pretty much screwed us over in terms of Bertie and Biffo. I'd even go as far back to say when I started it in 2001 that were weren't doing well. I think we should have based our vote on we think is the best to get us back on our feet, not what they used to believe.

    Chaotic, the point I'm making is that Adams has been President of Sinn Fein since 1983, and in all the time since (and before) that he has refused to condemm the IRA. Two members of the IRA, Martin McGuinness and Martin Ferris, are high-ranking members of Sinn Fein. That means you have two members of a democratic party supporting an undemocratic organisation. This is not something 'they used to believe', it is a belief they STILL hold.

    I would happily consider voting Sinn Fein but not until all the old guard who stood with the IRA are gone.


  • #2839
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Where did I say he collaborated with them?
    I'm a Man United fan but I don't play for them.
    Dev was certainly sad the day Adolf popped his pill and clogs. He even told the German people so.:D

    That was one of Dev's more disgusting decisions. Also, I hereby invoke Godwin's Law (see above).


  • #2840
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    Chaotic, the point I'm making is that Adams has been President of Sinn Fein since 1983, and in all the time since (and before) that he has refused to condemm the IRA. Two members of the IRA, Martin McGuinness and Martin Ferris, are high-ranking members of Sinn Fein. That means you have two members of a democratic party supporting an undemocratic organisation. This is not something 'they used to believe', it is a belief they STILL hold.

    I would happily consider voting Sinn Fein but not until all the old guard who stood with the IRA are gone.

    I understand that but let's say (for the sake of my rebuttal) that they do believe the IRA is the right way to go about it. Do you honestly think they'll be in power if they openly admitted that they want the IRA back?


  • #2841
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    I understand that but let's say (for the sake of my rebuttal) that they do believe the IRA is the right way to go about it. Do you honestly think they'll be in power if they openly admitted that they want the IRA back?

    That's not something they are going to do.

    The point I'm trying to make is that candidates like Adams and Ferris talk of civil rights and Irish unity but supported the IRA all the way through the Troubles, continue to do so, and are unapolagetic about doing so. How can you believe in democracy if you support an undemocratic organisation?


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  • #2842
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PauloMN wrote: »
    QED. There (..........)about FF!

    <Insert Counter Anecdote Here>


  • #2843
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    That was one of Dev's more disgusting decisions. Also, I hereby invoke Godwin's Law (see above).
    Godwin's can only be invoked at the first mention of Hitler or the Nazis dude.
    So now I must take all your magic cards.:p


  • #2844
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Godwin's can only be invoked at the first mention of Hitler or the Nazis dude.
    So now I must take all your magic cards.:p

    Drat ...:D


  • #2845
    Chaotic_Forces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭Chaotic_Forces


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    That's not something they are going to do.

    The point I'm trying to make is that candidates like Adams and Ferris talk of civil rights and Irish unity but supported the IRA all the way through the Troubles, continue to do so, and are unapolagetic about doing so. How can you believe in democracy if you support an undemocratic organisation?

    It's not about them personally though, is it? You should be caring about the party in general and not the individual. I don't like Joe Costello but I liked Ainé so I voted her and not him. They're the same party. The party itself isn't about supporting the IRA. And fine, I can understand why you would prefer not to vote for them but in my opinion, I think they basically moved from warfare (I do think that Gerry Adams had a lot to do with the IRA and was more than likely a member) to a more peaceful, political movement instead of allowing violence.


  • #2846
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Aside from pie-in-the-sky populist bull**** policies

    You mean pie-in-the-sky policies like "we'll keep basic public services and economic growth while giving €100 billion to Irish developers and German bankers"?


  • #2847
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Chaotic_Forces wrote: »
    It's not about them personally though, is it? You should be caring about the party in general and not the individual. I don't like Joe Costello but I liked Ainé so I voted her and not him. They're the same party. The party itself isn't about supporting the IRA. And fine, I can understand why you would prefer not to vote for them but in my opinion, I think they basically moved from warfare (I do think that Gerry Adams had a lot to do with the IRA and was more than likely a member) to a more peaceful, political movement instead of allowing violence.

    But if that's the case then surely he committed crimes by

    1 - being a member of the IRA
    2 - supporting the IRA
    3 - carrying out lord know's what kind of crimes in the name of the IRA.

    For example, he is believed to have been the IRA commander who authorised Bloody Friday. Why should we then vote for a person who committed such acts?


  • #2848
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So both of your parents were born in England, as were you.
    I guess that does make you British.

    You are wrong on both counts.

    But don't try and make out you are more Irish than me because your vote SF.


  • #2849
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Adrian009 wrote: »
    For example, he is believed to have been the IRA commander who authorised Bloody Friday. Why should we then vote for a person who committed such acts?
    Conjecture and statement as fact separated by a comma.:rolleyes:


  • #2850
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What's even more nuts is that they are apparently hard-left and hard-right at the same time. That must make them a centrist party I suppose.:D

    You don't understand politics do you? Politics is not a simple left/right equation.

    Did you actually read the reasons why I compare SF to the BNP ?


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  • #2851
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Conjecture and statement as fact separated by a comma.:rolleyes:

    If you look back at the post you'll see I was responding to his comment, which said:

    "I do think that Gerry Adams had a lot to do with the IRA and was more than likely a member."

    I was addressing Adams's support for the IRA. I didn't raise the subject of his membership of the IRA.


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