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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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Comments

  • #2732
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Sinn Fein are an extremist party. Comparisons to other extremist political parties is only logical.

    Not really. It's a bit odd they're from the opposite side of the political spectrum as well.....


  • #2733
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    There was no war. As long as Sinn Fein seek to glorify the murdering individuals discussed above then it will remain a suitable topic.

    really , you live in n ireland in 70s and 80s did you ?, thought not


  • #2734
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Nodin wrote: »
    Pre-emptive goal post moving?

    You think? Where did I move it from?


  • #2735
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Any that murdered - yes without hesitation.

    You just don't get it do you?

    , that would be the British definition of murder by their security forces no doubt , in other words it has never happened .


  • #2736
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not really. It's a bit odd they're from the opposite side of the political spectrum as well.....

    Politics isn't as simple as left/right.


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  • #2737
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    danbohan wrote: »
    really , you live in n ireland in 70s and 80s did you ?, thought not

    I lived in Dublin and I don't recall us ever declaring war.


  • #2738
    beeno67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭beeno67


    Nodin wrote: »
    Pre-emptive goal post moving?

    I don't get you?


  • #2739
    celtictiger32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Well if the Greens get only 1 seat that makes them an Independent.

    I can't see any other party getting less seats than Sinn Fein.

    my understanding of an independant was a candidate that has no affiliation to any political party.

    what about the likes of joe higgins and his party and one or two other minority parties are you dismissing them aswell?


  • #2740
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    danbohan wrote: »
    , that would be the British definition of murder by their security forces no doubt , in other words it has never happened .

    No that would be anyone who murdered.

    Again I have to remind you (you really don't seem to be getting it) that I condemn ALL the murders committed in Northern Ireland on either side and by any party. Is the clear enough for you?

    I won't try and justify the unjustifiable.


  • #2741
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    celtictiger32 wrote: »
    my understanding of an independant was a candidate that has no affiliation to any political party.

    what about the likes of joe higgins and his party and one or two other minority parties are you dismissing them aswell?

    Yep, pretty much.


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  • #2742
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beeno67 wrote: »
    I am not bitter. I am stating facts. After this election SF will be the smallest party unless the greens can muster a seat. They will get substantially less votes and seats than the deeply unpopular FF. What is bitter about that? Do you feel I am wrong.?

    SF had great hopes for this election, including leading the opposition. They will fail miserably in that. How can you possibly view it as a great success? They are just not failing as badly as they previously failed.

    So it's a failure for Sinn Fein if they don't get more seats than FF ?

    2007 election:

    FF - 77 seats
    SF - 4 seats

    I'm not going to question your intelligence but my 2 yr old nephew could tell me that for SF to overtake FF would be just a tad too far.

    I'm guessing you don't know much about Irish history. There's a loyal following to FF and FG. No matter how bad the country get they will get votes due to family reasons etc.

    SF and Labour for that matter are too left for alot of the conservative voters in Ireland. That will change though I'd imagine when the next generation or two die out.


  • #2743
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    SF and Labour for that matter are too left for alot of the conservative voters in Ireland. That will change though I'd imagine when the next generation or two die out.

    I doubt it. Socialism doesn't work it and the Irish electorate is smart enough to know that.


  • #2744
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    I doubt it. Socialism doesn't work it and the Irish electorate is smart enough to know that.

    capitalism does though doesn't it :o


  • #2745
    beeno67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭beeno67


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    So it's a failure for Sinn Fein if they don't get more seats than FF ?

    2007 election:

    FF - 77 seats
    SF - 4 seats

    I'm not going to question your intelligence but my 2 yr old nephew could tell me that for SF to overtake FF would be just a tad too far.

    I'm guessing you don't know much about Irish history. There's a loyal following to FF and FG. No matter how bad the country get they will get votes due to family reasons etc.

    SF and Labour for that matter are too left for alot of the conservative voters in Ireland. That will change though I'd imagine when the next generation or two die out.

    SF set out their stall as possible leaders of the opposition. They have failed utterly.

    My point about FF is that they are massively unpopular. FF voters are afraid to actually say they are going to vote FF. You can walk up to a total stranger on the street and start a conversation by saying "Aren't FF a shower of ****" and the person will agree with you. Yet despite that they may get twice as many seats as SF. That makes SF majorly unpopular. You are saying they will not be a massively unpopular as they were, so well done. But, they are still a very unpopular party. If any bigger party sad they would accept SF in a coalition they would immediatly loose votes, hence my comparison to genital warts.


  • #2746
    celtictiger32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Yep, pretty much.

    ah i see, so now the picture becomes clearer, so its not only SF that you oppose so strongly its any party at all whoever might upset the apple cart. maybe you just single out SF because they are the biggest threat to the cosy crony politics we have seen for too long.


  • #2747
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    capitalism does though doesn't it :o

    The centre ground is what works.


  • #2748
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beeno67 wrote: »
    SF set out their stall as possible leaders of the opposition. They have failed utterly.

    My point about FF is that they are massively unpopular. FF voters are afraid to actually say they are going to vote FF. You can walk up to a total stranger on the street and start a conversation by saying "Aren't FF a shower of ****" and the person will agree with you. Yet despite that they may get twice as many seats as SF. That makes SF majorly unpopular. You are saying they will not be a massively unpopular as they were, so well done. But, they are still a very unpopular party. If any bigger party sad they would accept SF in a coalition they would immediatly loose vates, hence my comparison to genital warts.

    SF said they were hoping to lead the opposition?

    You posts hold very little logic.


  • #2749
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    celtictiger32 wrote: »
    ah i see, so now the picture becomes clearer, so its not only SF that you oppose so strongly its any party at all whoever might upset the apple cart. maybe you just single out SF because they are the biggest threat to the cosy crony politics we have seen for too long.

    No, I just don't think you can be a credible political party with only one TD. It just makes you an independent with a fancy website.


  • #2750
    Hannibal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    I doubt it. Socialism doesn't work it and the Irish electorate is smart enough to know that.
    I seem to remember the capitalist system failing within the last couple of years to the extent most major countries have reigned it in through regulations. Socialism does work, just that any socialist country immediately comes under pressure from the US are then subsequently their allies cut trading ala Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia.
    Castro was never a communist until soon after the revolution the US tried to bully him and his country for nationalising companies who were fleecing the Cuban people (like the Corrib gas in Ireland) and he subsequently sought protection from the USSR and that trade embargo is ridiculously still in place. All countries needs to have an element of socialism, 35% of people in the US live below the poverty line and how many millionaires and billionaires are there? show me the fairness in that system.


  • #2751
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Any that murdered - yes without hesitation.

    You just don't get it do you?
    rarnes1 wrote: »
    How about FF and FG's voilent past?

    Well ?


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  • #2752
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Dotsey (it's not Brian by any chance is it)

    I don't believe in extremism on either side. As I mentioned earlier it is the centre ground that works.


  • #2753
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    The centre ground is what works.

    Of course. Like FF ? ;)


  • #2754
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beeno67 wrote: »
    I don't get you?

    By setting an unacheivable goal in this election - overtaking FF, for instance - that allows people to dismiss a SF gain of any shape or size.
    The Brigadier wrote:
    You think? Where did I move it from?

    From "I don't think they're going to do that well anyway to be honest thankfully. "
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70637330&postcount=1207


  • #2755
    celtictiger32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭celtictiger32


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    No, I just don't think you can be a credible political party with only one TD. It just makes you an independent with a fancy website.

    ah thats just nit-picking now i agree the credibility of a party with just one t.d. would be questionable but they are still a political party regardless. which in turn rubbishes the idea of SF being the smallest party in the dail.


  • #2756
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Nodin wrote: »
    Those were unusual circumstances. *Personally I would have thought the whole shooting and killing element would have been the bone of contention, rather than who claimed to represent what...
    Certainly the killings and bombings by PIRA get raised more by their critics which of course is entirely understandable. But this gives their supporters an easy response; so too were the BA & loyalists killers.
    But their willingness to justify a tiny group acting unilaterally is much more problematic, if less emotive.

    For me the problem is one of mind set and not history as is sometimes suggested. SF tell us that they are democrats. Well if they are, then they must be willing to accept that if they fail to pursued the electorate of their vision, then they will accept that, as all parties right across the spectrum, from the socialist party to the PDs, would do or have done. SF supporters of course, must do likewise.
    But they have in their heads as well, this notion that it is permissible to, as one of their contributors here put it, not give a f*** about the irish people. Ie the Irish people's opinion can be discounted.
    (Not only is this contrary to democracy, but it flies in the face of republicans (including Pearses) own rhetoric about the Irish deciding the fate of Ireland.)*
    Now this poster at least is using consistent thinking. But if you don't believe that, then you have a bit of logical gymnastics to do in your mind. And if you insist that you are a democrat then you have to offer a very good explanation as to why it was permissible to discount the will of the people, expressed freely and fairly in the South for sure, if not the north. *(unusual circumstances is not quite good enough. I suspect that excuse would not be acceptable for the worse excesses of the BA?)
    If you can't or won't, then some of us will continue to suspect that SF are still working to the ballot paper & armelite strategy, with the former being favoured for the foreseeable future. *
    You cannot be a little bit democratic any more than you can be a little bit pregnant.*


  • #2757
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Well ?

    I don't see them pushing it much, do you? I am as much in favour of progress as anyone else.

    The point is Sinn Fein still give glory to murderers and while they do it is a fair target for criticism.


  • #2758
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    SF has very much gone for the welfare sector vote for some time.

    I can only speak for my own experience but I have never met a SF supporter who wasn't either on long term benefits or a blue collar worker.

    What a snobbish attitude.


  • #2759
    Hannibal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Dotsey (it's not Brian by any chance is it)

    I don't believe in extremism on either side. As I mentioned earlier it is the centre ground that works.
    I dont disagree about centre ground, I'm regard myself a socialist myself but I think a left leaning government is always better than a right leaning government.
    SF arent a bunch of left wing extremists as people like to alledge. Joe Higgins is far more left wing, SF are as much left wing extremists as FG and the former PD's are/were right wing extremists


  • #2760
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    What a snobbish attitude.

    Not at all. It is a statement of fact not an opinion.

    Do you understand what you posted?


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  • #2761
    beeno67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭beeno67


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    SF said they were hoping to lead the opposition?

    You posts hold very little logic.

    Of course they were. It was widely reported throughout January.


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