anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:15AM

Gerry and Brendan Hughes where great friends, they kinda fell out over the GFA.

lugha · 24-02-2011 12:16AM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i never expected SF to get into power THIS time unless there was an exceptional circumstance where they went into coalition with someone (unlikely i know) but every debate, every forum, every discussion when the other party members/supporters run out of the drivel they come out with they turn to the dead horse of smearing SF just to make them look good

All you are doing is whingeing about how horrible every one is being to your party but you refuse to rebuff the points being made. (Incidentally, the FF crew who post here do exactly the same thing, arguing that anyone who criticizes FF all part of an AB FF brigade)
Why don't you answer the particular charges I make?
i.e. How can SF claim to recognize the state when the continue to refer to the "26 counties"?
How can they claim to recognize the state when one of their TDs freely associates with men who murdered a defender of this state? (Even FF wouldn't tolerate that! They fired Jim McDaid from government for something much the same)

caseyann · 24-02-2011 12:17AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well they seem mighty friendly here.

Here is Gerry carrying Brendan Hughes coffin.

If Hughes hated him so much why would the family have allowed Gerry act as pall bearer?

You are just grasping at straws here and quite distasteful.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:17AM

The funny thing is that most people who condemn the IRA etc, will the first out with the aul tricolors in 2016.

wurzlitzer · 24-02-2011 12:19AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Gerry and Brendan Hughes where great friends, they kinda fell out over the GFA.

Brendan Hughes said once in an interview that he felt betrayed by Gerry

SafeSurfer · 24-02-2011 12:22AM

caseyann wrote: »

You are just grasping at straws here and quite distasteful.

No Caseyann I was questioning the validity of the claim by a poster that Brendan Hughes hated Gerry Adams up until his deathbed.

caseyann · 24-02-2011 12:23AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The funny thing is that most people who condemn the IRA etc, will the first out with the aul tricolors in 2016.

I just found a poll for belfast telegraph.
How would you vote in a referendum on NI joining a United Ireland?

Yes - Ireland should be united 61%
No - NI should remain part of the UK 38%
Don't know 2%

It provides another fascinating snapshot of public opinion at a key time in our political history.

The vote is split — 42% agreeing and 42% disagreeing — on whether Northern Ireland will still be part of the United Kingdom by 2021. One in four Protestants (24%) said they thought there will be a united Ireland by then

lugha · 24-02-2011 12:23AM

caseyann wrote: »

I think you will find in 2006,of those who were surveyed,this came out.

A 2006 Sunday Business Post survey reported that almost 80% of voters in the Republic favour a united Ireland: 22% believe that "achieving a united Ireland should be the first priority of the government" while 55% say they "would like to see a united Ireland, but not as the first priority of government." Of the remainder 10% said no efforts should be made to bring about a united Ireland and 13% had no opinion.[5] This poll was markedly up from one year earlier when a Sunday Independent article[32] reported that 55% would support a united Ireland,;)

Ah, 2006! Those were the days when we could dream about such vanity projects as a united Ireland! :pac:
Anyway, I never denied that a majority of Irish people want a united Ireland. But an even greater majority rejected PIRA's way of bringing this about. And similar numbers fully recognise this state and unreservedly condemn the murder of gardai. My comments were directed at the small minority who think it is acceptable to ignore the will of the majority.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:26AM

Tiocfaidh ár lá, never truer words spoken.

caseyann · 24-02-2011 12:26AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No Caseyann I was questioning the validity of the claim by a poster that Brendan Hughes hated Gerry Adams up until his deathbed.

I would disagree he hated him betrayed let down by him and the SF party.He said it himself.
And yes enough to discredit him with people to get back at him why not.Still shows Gerry held no animosity to long time friend.And i am sure the family knew that,Gerry and SF thought what was best for the people,so let him carry his departed friend to rest.

Dan_Solo · 24-02-2011 12:26AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

SF are not in power here and wont be after the GE.

Not this time, but when FG are shown to be just as bad with identical policies to FF, the next election will be interesting. Hopefully we won't need to suffer a full term of Enda Kenny's 5 point continuation of FF policies before that happens.

Dan_Solo · 24-02-2011 12:27AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Tiocfaidh ár lá, never truer words spoken.

Hahaha, our local SF flyers actually say "OUR DAY HAS COME" on them!

PauloMN · 24-02-2011 12:27AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The funny thing is that most people who condemn the IRA etc, will the first out with the aul tricolors in 2016.

You don't have to be a republican to be proud of our country and its flag. Sinn Fein and the IRA don't have exclusive rights over the flag of this state.

caseyann · 24-02-2011 12:28AM

lugha wrote: »

Ah, 2006! Those were the days when we could dream about such vanity projects as a united Ireland! :pac:
Anyway, I never denied that a majority of Irish people want a united Ireland. But an even greater majority rejected PIRA's way of bringing this about. And similar numbers fully recognise this state and unreservedly condemn the murder of gardai. My comments were directed at the small minority who think it is acceptable to ignore the will of the majority.

em and who talked them to the tables? Oh wait was that none other than Gerry Adams and SF party? Oh it was :eek:

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 12:28AM

lugha wrote: »

All you are doing is whingeing about how horrible every one is being to your party but you refuse to rebuff the points being made. (Incidentally, the FF crew who post here do exactly the same thing, arguing that anyone who criticizes FF all part of an AB FF brigade)
Why don't you answer the particular charges I make?
i.e. How can SF claim to recognize the state when the continue to refer to the "26 counties"?
How can they claim to recognize the state when one of their TDs freely associates with men who murdered a defender of this state? (Even FF wouldn't tolerate that! They fired Jim McDaid from government for something much the same)

i dont see the problem in reference to the 26 counties claim i myself see ireland as a whole and if i refer to the 6 counties i more times than not say 'the north' i try as a personal thing not to say 'northern ireland'. quirky maybe but i dont see a big issue with it. a lot of northerners especially nationalists refer to the south as 'the south' or 'the 26 counties'.

for your second point i woudnt class any person guilty by association, if your friend, family member or whoever was a murderer, rapist whatever that wouldnt lead me to believe you had any involvement in same.

SafeSurfer · 24-02-2011 12:30AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The funny thing is that most people who condemn the IRA etc, will the first out with the aul tricolors in 2016.

Whats funny about that?

The tricolour is the flag of the Republic of Ireland.

A state that the IRA and Sinn Fein have only recently recognised.

Before this they believed that they were the legitimate government of Ireland and that the IRA was the legitimate defence forces of the republic.

Now the CIRA, RIRA, 32 Sovereignty committee, Cherry Coke IRA and all the other fringe groups believe the same.

It is an ever decreasing circle of small deluded groups who see themselves as the legitimate government of Ireland.

Maybe in a couple of generations the delusions will end when there is one barstool warrior and a lame dog left who believe themselves to be the true heirs of the proclamation.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:30AM

PauloMN wrote: »

You don't have to be a republican to be proud of our country and its flag. Sinn Fein and the IRA don't have exclusive rights over the flag of this state.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in saying the easter rebels, Collins etc where great heroes and saying PIRA men where terrorists.

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 12:32AM

lugha wrote: »

The gardai (ban-gardai?) was never named AFAIK and properly so.
The charming PJ Sheehan at least had the decency to immediately resign his position as FG deputy spokesman on ag. and subsequently decided not to seek re-election.

Good, all ended well and justice was done and seen to be done. So what was the SF poster getting so worked up about?

lugha · 24-02-2011 12:33AM

caseyann wrote: »

You are just grasping at straws here and quite distasteful.

I would agree with your distasteful comment, but for different reasons.

Adams wasn't being deliberately insensitive to the victims of the bombings. He was making the statement that republicans will stand by each other, even when one of the number commits a particularly foul deed, essentially to maintain morale. It is most distasteful, but not unusual in a conflict. The British did much the same when the decorated some of the paratroopers from Bloody Sunday.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The funny thing is that most people who condemn the IRA etc, will the first out with the aul tricolors in 2016.

I hereby pledge to stay at home that day

. Alas, I think we (and you!) will have far greater problems to concern us in 5 years time.

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 12:40AM

lugha wrote: »

I would agree with your distasteful comment, but for different reasons.
Adams wasn't being deliberately insensitive to the victims of the bombings. He was making the statement that republicans will stand by each other, even when one of the number commits a particularly foul deed, essentially to maintain morale. It is most distasteful, but not unusual in a conflict. The British did much the same when the decorated some of the paratroopers from Bloody Sunday.

I hereby pledge to stay at home that day . Alas, I think we (and you!) will have far greater problems to concern us in 5 years time.

ah cheer up our problems might be behind us then, and we can all go out watch the parade and have a good time and listen to the address by taoiseach adams..........lol

caseyann · 24-02-2011 12:41AM

lugha wrote: »

I would agree with your distasteful comment, but for different reasons.
Adams wasn't being deliberately insensitive to the victims of the bombings. He was making the statement that republicans will stand by each other, even when one of the number commits a particularly foul deed, essentially to maintain morale. It is most distasteful, but not unusual in a conflict. The British did much the same when the decorated some of the paratroopers from Bloody Sunday.

I hereby pledge to stay at home that day . Alas, I think we (and you!) will have far greater problems to concern us in 5 years time.

I will tell you something,if any of my family or best friends did anything to kill someone or anything else, i would still carry their coffin and be heart broken and mourn them and love their memory of their good things in life,even if i was not on speaking terms and even if they said the most horrendous things ever about me.
Would you not?

I agree with one thing if FG are in may aswell be ff and bankers in power all over again.As they are still pledging more money to the banks.When will it end.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:43AM

If Adams says he was in the IRA and did stuff he would get arrested.

lugha · 24-02-2011 12:48AM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i dont see the problem in reference to the 26 counties claim i myself see ireland as a whole and if i refer to the 6 counties i more times than not say 'the north' i try as a personal thing not to say 'northern ireland'. quirky maybe but i dont see a big issue with it. a lot of northerners especially nationalists refer to the south as 'the south' or 'the 26 counties'.

Well perhaps you don't see the issue but there is one! Yes, most of us will not always be pedantic about using the correct names for the states on these islands and that is no big deal. But SF make a point of using 6 counties and 26 counties almost exclusively (check their web sites) and these are politically loaded terms. It is not a coincidence that so many of them favour the exact same, incorrect, term.

celtictiger32 wrote: »

for your second point i woudnt class any person guilty by association, if your friend, family member or whoever was a murderer, rapist whatever that wouldnt lead me to believe you had any involvement in same.

I wasn't imputing guilt by association to Martin Ferris, he has his own personal rap sheet! If a public representative collect prisoners on their release then they are quite clearly supporting them, at least implicitly. Would you suggest any public representative can meet anyone they want and nothing read in to it? If you do, you have a very naive take on politics. I can assure you there would be major rumblings if members of any of the main parties provided a taxi service for cop killers.

Adrian009 · 24-02-2011 12:49AM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i dont see the problem in reference to the 26 counties claim i myself see ireland as a whole and if i refer to the 6 counties i more times than not say 'the north' i try as a personal thing not to say 'northern ireland'. quirky maybe but i dont see a big issue with it. a lot of northerners especially nationalists refer to the south as 'the south' or 'the 26 counties'.

for your second point i woudnt class any person guilty by association, if your friend, family member or whoever was a murderer, rapist whatever that wouldnt lead me to believe you had any involvement in same.

Eire, or Ireland, are the official names. SF and IRA explicitly used the term '26 counties' as a demeaning term. Most people who live here don't like been demeaned. To me the north is the north or northern Ireland.

Adams is not guilty by association, he has been a staunch supporter of the IRA for over forty years. Even now, five years after their ceasefire, he still will not condemm them for their actions. To people in Ireland that puts him outside the box of a fully democratic politicion, and so they won't vote for him.

Wolfe Tone · 24-02-2011 12:52AM

If Gerry Adams came out tomorrow and slated PIRA as terrorists or whatever, SF would collapse, all his work over the years would be undone. Its too soon for anything like that.

ultain · 24-02-2011 12:55AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in saying the easter rebels, Collins etc where great heroes and saying PIRA men where terrorists.

Collins was a vein man...dev was a black snake who took full advantage of it, between them they destroyed the country before it ever had a chance, stoney ground and all of that.

caseyann · 24-02-2011 01:03AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If Gerry Adams came out tomorrow and slated PIRA as terrorists or whatever, SF would collapse, all his work over the years would be undone. Its too soon for anything like that.

That would be a smart thing to do wouldn't it.God you do wonder where people get their lame ideas from.
He already condemned loads for the people who keep saying he hasnt.

celtictiger32 · 24-02-2011 01:04AM

lugha wrote: »

Well perhaps you don't see the issue but there is one! Yes, most of us will not always be pedantic about using the correct names for the states on these islands and that is no big deal. But SF make a point of using 6 counties and 26 counties almost exclusively (check their web sites) and these are politically loaded terms. It is not a coincidence that so many of them favour the exact same, incorrect, term.

I wasn't imputing guilt by association to Martin Ferris, he has his own personal rap sheet! If a public representative collect prisoners on their release then they are quite clearly supporting them, at least implicitly. Would you suggest any public representative can meet anyone they want and nothing read in to it? If you do, you have a very naive take on politics. I can assure you there would be major rumblings if members of any of the main parties provided a taxi service for cop killers.

im a citizen of the '26 counties' and i have absolutely no problem whatsoever in it being called that. SF are an all ireland party and they have their reasons for not addressing the province as northern ireland etc. they would be cut down if they referred to n.i as ireland so imo whats the harm in using terminology like 6 counties and 26 counties. besides ive been taking anti SF points etc. here for the last while and i think that one is slightly clutching at straws.

yes martin ferris has his own rap sheet, and some might say it wasnt the smartest thing to do but i disagree like i said guilty by association should have no relevance if it had of been my friend that was getting released i would have no hesitation in picking him up. would you????????????

SafeSurfer · 24-02-2011 01:10AM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

If Adams says he was in the IRA and did stuff he would get arrested.

One man's transparency is another's humiliation.
Gerry Adams October 2003

SafeSurfer · 24-02-2011 01:15AM

celtictiger32 wrote: »

yes martin ferris has his own rap sheet, and some might say it wasnt the smartest thing to do but i disagree like i said guilty by association should have no relevance if it had of been my friend that was getting released i would have no hesitation in picking him up. would you????????????

The actions of elected politicians differ from the actions of Joe Public.

A TD who votes on the laws of this state collecting people convicted of killing a man tasked with enforcing those laws.

This is different from picking up your mate from the nick.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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