anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

LordSutch · 22-02-2011 04:25PM

Timulus Package wrote: »

that's a mis representation. SF do not intend to tell the IMF to Fk off.

Well, maybe not in that language, but Sinn Fein do actually think that we can go it alone without the need for any EU financial help! and that is something I find incredluous. Do they not wish to burn the Bondholders? along with reneging on our responsibility as a countyr in the EU to repay the bailout :cool:

Sinn Fein are living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

Villain · 22-02-2011 04:27PM

lugha wrote: »

For the 768 time, PIRA presumed to represent all Irish people even though the vast majority did not agree with the means that they used to bring about the end that they aspired to. If you want to make a legitimate compraison with Mandela, then you must make the case that the ANC were acting against the wishes of the majority of black South Africans.

FF were acting against wishes of the majority of the people when they did the deal with the IMF to bail out the Bond Holders with money borrowed at a crazy interest rate.......oh wait this is just a Sinn Fein bashing thread, all the other parties are whiter than white.

Timulus Package · 22-02-2011 04:35PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Well, maybe not in that language, but Sinn Fein do actually think that we can go it alone without the need for any EU financial help! and that is something I find incredluous.

No they don't

Maybe you should listen to them aswell as their opponents.
EU Countries can't go alone. We have the one currency amoung many other things that must be considered. SF don't pretend they are not in the EU.

What SF believe is that the Irish Tax payer shouldn't bail out Private German banks as rule or private banks anywhere for that matter. It's that simple. It's what they will tell the IMF. You may think that you owe them money but i sure as hell don't owe them anything. The IMF already know this. The EU on the other hand (with the support of the Irish Gov) seem hell bent on forcing us to protect them and protect German banks from dealing with their own problems. The weight of the potential German debt is being kept in lock down in Ireland.

SF and many others see it as - Irish Tax payers are citizens of Ireland and Europe while private banks are private banks regardless of where they are. They could be McDonalds restaurants for all it matters. Citizens are not responsible for the debt of these banks.

Pete_Cavan · 22-02-2011 04:54PM

Timulus Package wrote: »

No they don't
Maybe you should listen to them aswell as their opponents.
EU Countries can't go alone. We have the one currency amoung many other things that must be considered. SF don't pretend they are not in the EU.

What SF believe is that the Irish Tax payer shouldn't bail out Private German banks as rule or private banks anywhere for that matter. It's that simple. It's what they will tell the IMF. You may think that you owe them money but i sure as hell don't owe them anything.

SF and many others see it as - Irish Tax payers are citizens of Ireland and Europe while private banks are private banks regardless of where they are. They could be McDonalds restaurants for all it matters. Citizens are not responsible for the debt of these banks.

SF seem to think we are not in the EU by promising they will burn the bondholders. The ECB has committed €160bn to Irish banks and would remove that funding were we to default on senior bondholder debt, thereby collapsing our entire banking system (no money in ATMs, all deposits wiped out, no payment of wages, no working capital for business, etc.). That is before we consider the €18bn budget deficit which SF have no idea how to full. I also have to mention their €7bn stimulus package which they want to pay for from <€5bn NPRF. If SF understand the situation they are ignoring the reality and shouting populist nonsense in order to boost their support. They are spoofing, as usual, to trick the gullible into voting for them.

22-02-2011 04:59PM

Villain wrote: »

.oh wait this is just a Sinn Fein bashing thread, all the other parties are whiter than white.

If Sinn Fein weren't being incredulous with where they get the money to run the country,I'd give them a vote.
Currently,it's all wishy washy it will be alright pet... is about what they are saying.
They keep trooping the same mar dhea support from economists for their plans but fail to mention the same ones want huge cuts in public service spending [Constantin for example] so bar negotiating the bonds down to as little as possible,theres a wide chasm between sf economic policy and what their mar dhea supporting economists think.

The public aren't fools in that regard.

lugha · 22-02-2011 05:18PM

Villain wrote: »

FF were acting against wishes of the majority of the people when they did the deal with the IMF to bail out the Bond Holders with money borrowed at a crazy interest rate.......oh wait this is just a Sinn Fein bashing thread, all the other parties are whiter than white.

Democracy is imperfect. It is a nice idea, but hopelessly impractical, to think that every single decision could achieve majority support (by definition, no unpopular decisions could ever be taken). So we permit our governments some latitude to do unpopular, but necessary things, but retain the right to hold them to account every few years.

FF sought and got a mandate in 2007, which enables to form a coalition government. If the people are unhappy with their performance then they can summarily dismiss them from office this Friday, a fate I expect they will accept. Were we to hear dark mutterings from their quarters about FF being the only legitimate party of government, then I think valid comparisons with PIRA could be made.

mccoist · 22-02-2011 08:03PM

I am voting for sinn fein in this election
they are now a democratic party
they will also be the right people to negotiate any new deal on the interest rate which the lie down ff agreed as they sold out the country
G Adams despite all the knockers is the best well known respected internationally on this island and any party trying to re-negotiate the sell out deal done by fianna fail should avail of this strength and experience

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2011 10:29PM

mccoist wrote: »

I am voting for sinn fein in this election
they are now a democratic party
they will also be the right people to negotiate any new deal on the interest rate which the lie down ff agreed as they sold out the country
G Adams despite all the knockers is the best well known respected internationally on this island and any party trying to re-negotiate the sell out deal done by fianna fail should avail of this strength and experience

Just to alert you to some facts.

Sinn Fein will not be negotiating any deal after the election, either in this country or anywhere else.

Gerry Adams is best known internationally as a former terrorist who lent his support to European terrorists in Spain, France and Italy and further afield and whose organisation was responsible for deaths in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands.

Gerry Adams is at 29% popularity among Sinn Fein supporters in the latest poll and he is not respected by the majority of people on this island on either side of the border.

Gerry Adams, lets face it is a fringe political figure who was flattered by politicians internationally at the behest of the British, Irish and US governments to persuade him to put the guns away. Nothing more nothing less.

Sin Fein have only had representation in the European Parliament since 2004 and are alligned to a fringe group GUE/NGL in Europe. www.guengl.eu

So don't delude yourself that Sinn Fein is a highly respected party or that Adams is an international statesman of repute.

crebel81 · 22-02-2011 10:47PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Just to alert you to some facts.

Sinn Fein will not be negotiating any deal after the election, either in this country or anywhere else.

Gerry Adams is best known internationally as a former terrorist who lent his support to European terrorists in Spain, France and Italy and further afield and whose organisation was responsible for deaths in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands.

Gerry Adams is at 29% popularity among Sinn Fein supporters in the latest poll and he is not respected by the majority of people on this island on either side of the border.

Gerry Adams, lets face it is a fringe political figure who was flattered by politicians internationally at the behest of the British, Irish and US governments to persuade him to put the guns away. Nothing more nothing less.

Sin Fein have only had representation in the European Parliament since 2004 and are alligned to a fringe group GUE/NGL in Europe. www.guengl.eu

So don't delude yourself that Sinn Fein is a highly respected party or that Adams is an international statesman of repute.

Mr. Safesurfer...We will find out on Friday whether the electorate consider Sinn Fein to be the party which will best represent them. Sinn Fein are not a party who encorage the rich to get richer, and this does not appeal to the elite who of course will vote FG/FF, and will hide their reasons for not voting Sinn Fein with absolute crap regarding Gerry Adams past etc.

I believe Sinn Fein will do well in this election and will build on the extra seats which they will gain.

And the little line in bold above...absolute nonsense. People will decide for themselves whether they respect Sinn Fein or Gerry Adams. They don't need people trying to brainwash them into thinking otherwise

wee truck big driver · 23-02-2011 12:07AM

cornerboy wrote: »

I cant rob banks in order to pay my morgage, so pardon me if I have more important things to be concerned with. I dont give a damn about your precious 6 counties.

that was the whole problem. some people didnt give a damn. as for robbing banks the ira used to rob banks to help the poor vunerable people of ireland fight there oppressors but f.f, f.g, and lab are robbing the poor to help the banks i know which i would support

wee truck big driver · 23-02-2011 12:11AM

cornerboy wrote: »

Like that guy in Dundalk said "Gerry youre no Michael Collins" and he's certainly no Nelson Mandela.

you got that right gerry adams wasnt an alco who was taking money from the ira for himself and he also didnt cack in his panties when negoiating with the brits and sell his country down the swany fair play gerry

wee truck big driver · 23-02-2011 12:13AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Well, maybe not in that language, but Sinn Fein do actually think that we can go it alone without the need for any EU financial help! and that is something I find incredluous. Do they not wish to burn the Bondholders? along with reneging on our responsibility as a countyr in the EU to repay the bailout :cool:

Sinn Fein are living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

i think if your name alone was not a valid reason to ignore everything you say well then the content of your repetitive posts certainly are

PomBear · 23-02-2011 12:19AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The biggest difference of course was Mandelas fight was about the people whereas Adams is about the land.

I feel ashamed people are this misinformed about the troubles

SafeSurfer · 23-02-2011 12:22AM

crebel81 wrote: »

Mr. Safesurfer...We will find out on Friday whether the electorate consider Sinn Fein to be the party which will best represent them. Sinn Fein are not a party who encorage the rich to get richer, and this does not appeal to the elite who of course will vote FG/FF, and will hide their reasons for not voting Sinn Fein with absolute crap regarding Gerry Adams past etc.

I believe Sinn Fein will do well in this election and will build on the extra seats which they will gain.

And the little line in bold above...absolute nonsense. People will decide for themselves whether they respect Sinn Fein or Gerry Adams. They don't need people trying to brainwash them into thinking otherwise

Yes people will decide. No majoe political party and around 1 in 10 of the electorate have no respect for Sinn Fein and their policies.

I am not trying to brainwash anybody. People are informed and intelligent to make up their own minds.

The pools show 71% of Sinn Fein supporters do not support Adams as leader of their party.

In my constituency and the neighbouring constituencies all the local candidate's posters show them and Pearse Doherty, not a sign of the dear leader anywhere.
Does that say something about how highly Gerry Adams is regarded within his own party?

Weewa2 · 23-02-2011 12:24AM

shtemcguire wrote: »

they have policies that want to help the poor and they are republican which is good

i dont think anyone should vote for sinn fein their policies are bullsh*t!

PomBear · 23-02-2011 12:40AM

Weewa2 wrote: »

i dont think anyone should vote for sinn fein their policies are bullsh*t!

what policy in particular?

crebel81 · 23-02-2011 12:41AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes people will decide. No majoe political party and around 1 in 10 of the electorate have no respect for Sinn Fein and their policies.

I am not trying to brainwash anybody. People are informed and intelligent to make up their own minds.

The pools show 71% of Sinn Fein supporters do not support Adams as leader of their party.

In my constituency and the neighbouring constituencies all the local candidate's posters show them and Pearse Doherty, not a sign of the dear leader anywhere.
Does that say something about how highly Gerry Adams is regarded within his own party?

1 in 10 have no "respect" for Sinn fein and their policies?

In reference to your question, Yes I do believe Gerry Adams will have to move aside for a younger fresher leader like Doherty. However, Gerry is highly regarded by his supporters. Maybe not as leader, but still held in high regard.

paul71 · 23-02-2011 12:42AM

PomBear wrote: »

what policy in particular?

Maintaining public spending at current levels?

Timulus Package · 23-02-2011 12:42AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

SF seem to think we are not in the EU by promising they will burn the bondholders. The ECB has committed €160bn to Irish banks and would remove that funding were we to default on senior bondholder debt, thereby collapsing our entire banking system (no money in ATMs, all deposits wiped out, no payment of wages, no working capital for business, etc.). That is before we consider the €18bn budget deficit which SF have no idea how to full. I also have to mention their €7bn stimulus package which they want to pay for from <€5bn NPRF. If SF understand the situation they are ignoring the reality and shouting populist nonsense in order to boost their support. They are spoofing, as usual, to trick the gullible into voting for them.

If SF think they're not in the EU they need to riegn in their MEP:rolleyes:

Let them remove the funding. Why are they protecting bondholders at the expence of Irish tax payers? .

The ECB will not take away the funding as it's written into the treaties. They have no way of taking it away shoud we need it. What they can do and what they should do is take away the funding (by the way it's a loan not a fund) they are telling us to spend on debt that is not ours. They should not be forcing a loan on us at an over priced interest rate to pay someone elses debt. If they demand that the bondholders must be paid then they must be paid by the European community and not just the Irish tax payer.

If we seperate the bank debt we can return to the bond market. This has been said many times by the top economists including DmcWilliams.
Should this fail we still have the IMF. No need to though as the EU will always be there with our money at the ready. It's in all our interests.

SF have released their pre-budget plan which is costed by the Department of Finance. It says how they wil reduce the deficit.

There is 14bn in the NPRF. Not only that but it is invested in every part of the world other than Ireland. A simple redirection of the investment would stimulate the economy.

I find it strange that you can consider it populist while they are on 11%. Surely FG are the populists?

SF are the only party being real about the economy. I see on tonights debate FG and LB have decided that it's unfair and wrong (not to mention impossible) for Irish citizens to take all the hit on the bank bonds and the bondholders need to take a hit too. About time they came around to this. The problem is if it's unfair and wrong for Irish Tax payers to take a hit on all of it, then it's unfair and wrong on Irish Tax payers to take a hit on any of it. It's not our debt.

PomBear · 23-02-2011 12:47AM

paul71 wrote: »

Maintaining public spending at current levels?

So where would you like to see the cuts?

paul71 · 23-02-2011 12:55AM

PomBear wrote: »

So where would you like to see the cuts?

I don't like to see them anywhere, but it is not a questioning of liking, it is a question of needs must, or nothing will be paid for when the money runs out.

So as answer, if I was a dreamer I would like to see no cuts, in fact lets give everyone in the country a bonus of €10,000 and have a big party. But this is the real world so the cuts will come everywhere.

Health, Social welfare, Law, Defence, OAP, Education they will all be cut.

wurzlitzer · 23-02-2011 12:56AM

There was three muppets debating tonight ....

The last thing we needed was Gerry speaking through his nose about making a stand and selling the ESB, RTE, and the settee

We are well and truly fooked!

After seeing the debate I almost considered voting SF

But perhaps the crazy but not so murderous workers party will get my vote instead...

Has it really come to this
When one considers voting in crackpots and chuckies
The despair

Does anyone know any good jokes?
I need cheering up

Paddy Martin , paddy Gilmore and paddy kenny walk into a bar.....

SafeSurfer · 23-02-2011 12:57AM

crebel81 wrote: »

1 in 10 have no "respect" for Sinn fein and their policies?

In reference to your question, Yes I do believe Gerry Adams will have to move aside for a younger fresher leader like Doherty. However, Gerry is highly regarded by his supporters. Maybe not as leader, but still held in high regard.

Thats an honest answer crebel81. I think the same. A new leader without any baggage could bring the party to new heights, especially when we are faced with 4 more years of austerity.

There is a major difficulty on having an all island leadership. I know it is a core principal and Sinn Fein along with the Greens are the only all island party but it does present difficulties.

In the same way that voters in the south don't like Gerry Adams pontificating on southern politics. Sinn Fein members in the north would not take too kindly to a southern new kid on the block like Doherty or Mc Donald as the face of the party in the north. And there are few Sinn Fein politicians who have all island appeal.

It is going to be a major dilemna for the party in the near future even if they, as I predict, treble the number of seats won in the 2007 GE.

Nodin · 23-02-2011 12:58AM

LordSutch wrote: »

The President of Sinn Fein carries the coffin of an IRA bomber . . . .

So?

PomBear · 23-02-2011 01:02AM

paul71 wrote: »

I don't like to see them anywhere, but it is not a questioning of liking, it is a question of needs must, or nothing will be paid for when the money runs out.

So as answer, if I was a dreamer I would like to see no cuts, in fact lets give everyone in the country a bonus of €10,000 and have a big party. But this is the real world so the cuts will come everywhere.

Health, Social welfare, Law, Defence, OAP, Education they will all be cut.

Wrong, Sinn Féin are going down this an alternative route with a stimulus package that has been costed by the Dept of Finance.

Fine Gael just don't have the balls to stand up to the banks because they know where their allegiances but hey, enough people are buying that Fine Gael dribble....

colly10 · 23-02-2011 01:03AM

PomBear wrote: »

So where would you like to see the cuts?

1. He won't make cuts and won't accept a bailout, so where is he going to get the money to pay the public services cause there's nowhere near enough in the pension reserve and he won't raise enough in taxes.

2. Also where's he going to get the money for the banks if he won't accept a bailout, if AIB and BOI go under they'll take the country with them

colly10 · 23-02-2011 01:06AM

Nodin wrote: »

So?

If your friends with people who like to blow other people up, I wouldn't be trusting you to run the country

PomBear · 23-02-2011 01:07AM

colly10 wrote: »

1. He won't make cuts and won't accept a bailout, so where is he going to get the money to pay the public services cause there's nowhere near enough in the pension reserve and he won't raise enough in taxes.

Fail. It's called an economic policy. Sinn Féin have one, you should read it some time instead of basing your knowledge on one factor of it

2. Also where's he going to get the money for the banks if he won't accept a bailout, if AIB and BOI go under they'll take the country with them[/QUOTE]

Have you ever heard of HSBC? Santander?

paul71 · 23-02-2011 01:08AM

PomBear wrote: »

Wrong, Sinn Féin are going down this an alternative route with a stimulus package that has been costed by the Dept of Finance.

Fine Gael just don't have the balls to stand up to the banks because they know where their allegiances but hey, enough people are buying that Fine Gael dribble....

Wrong, I have already addressed the SF stimulus plan in this tread. No-body in the department of finance even saw this plan, government departments are forbidden to contribute to or comment on party policy documents. The press officer at the dept will confirm this for you.

SF are telling lies, in fact all the parties are just the biggest fantasy is coming from SF. The cuts will come and they will be massive no matter what party goes into power because they cant write cheques with money we don't have.

Timulus Package · 23-02-2011 01:10AM

1. He won't make cuts and won't accept a bailout, so where is he going to get the money to pay the public services cause there's nowhere near enough in the pension reserve and he won't raise enough in taxes.

The Bond Market. it has been said 100s of times. Why do so many people pretend not to hear it?

How much is in the NPRF?

2. Also where's he going to get the money for the banks if he won't accept a bailout, if AIB and BOI go under they'll take the country with them

What money for the banks? The whole point is that they get no more money. Again, why do people pretend not to hear this?

AIB and BOI can fend for themselves. We need to Guarentee the deposits but the rest can sod off. BoI will manage fine on it's own. If AIB need investors they can look for them themselves.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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