Do you believe that the communion bread is the actual body of christ?

Seaneh · 21-02-2011 11:31PM

Catholics, the only Christians I know who throw the bible out the window and follow what some auld lad in a funny hat says instead.

Funny auld bunch.

Ghost Buster · 21-02-2011 11:33PM

Brenireland wrote: »

Don't think I was actually forcing anything to be fair,Nor those the state allow the Catholic Church force the Beliefs of the church on others,this is not the truth as everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

Im sorry but that is a crock of sh1t. Its a sin to lie you know.

Brenireland · 21-02-2011 11:34PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Whooooooo. Do you condone what the catholic Church have been up to. Yes or No

The church done wrong as have many society's/organisations on earth.

Your Question is not a Yes/No type Question,their are over 3 Billion Catholics on earth,put your question to them if you wish.

KeithAFC · 21-02-2011 11:35PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea but the Protestants have been brainwashed too. Well for a start the only source material they had and reference to this day was "edited" by the early Roman church to suit the growth of it's spiritual empire. The first edition king James bible is based on that edit. In a way the Catholics are correct, they are the (self editing) source going way back. The Protestants may have gone back to square one in their heads, but it was a second and third century(if not later) "square one".

And most people, especially the Irish are and have moved away from the "mother church". For good bloody reason. Beyond the corruption and kiddie fiddling, the Irish version of the roman church was about the most dour and grey and pathetic as it's possible to be. No? Look at the latin(spanish/italian/french) versions. All pomp and ceremony. Major knees up and piss up. Ours was drenched in the fog and damp and rain and grey of this island at it's worst. Not always though. And one of the tragedies of the Paulian faith is that the early and first Irish version didn't win out.

I have to say though, given the choice between the roman church and something like the wee frees? I'd go with the former. Look up the words "catholic tastes". How any faith on this island could be any more dour than the moss cassocked roman faith takes some doing, but the wee frees came damned close.

Why is the pope such an evil and big leading figure in the world?

gerryo777 · 21-02-2011 11:35PM

So this hasn't turned into a catholic bashing thread then?

Wibbs · 21-02-2011 11:37PM

Sharrow wrote: »

No thank you, if you want to pray to your god for someone then do so for one of his flock, cos I am not one of his.

Don't listen to Sharrow B, Work away on my part, I need all the help I can bloody get!

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dunno man, i like Protestantism..:p

:eek: No way!! Really? Hell KeithAFC, ya need to be more stealth in your approach. Like that ad a few years back; "the future's bright, the future's orange". We nearly, nearly didnt notice that ya sash wearin git. *shakes fist* That's what ye should be aiming for. What the hell am I saying!!! :eek: Right ignore that K. It came from a fenian bastard foreign country so you have to.

Seaneh · 21-02-2011 11:37PM

Brenireland wrote: »

The church done wrong as have many society's/organisations on earth.

Your Question is not a Yes/No type Question,their are over 3 Billion Catholics on earth,put your question to them if you wish.

There is roughly 1.5billion Catholics in the world and in reality, the number of practising Catholics is a lot smaller.

21-02-2011 11:37PM

Wibbs wrote: »

:eek: No way!! Really? Hell KeithAFC, ya need to be more stealth in your approach. Like that ad a few years back; "the future's bright, the future's orange". We nearly, nearly didnt notice that ya sash wearin git. *shakes fist* That's what ye should be aiming for. What the hell am I saying!!! :eek: Right ignore that K. It came from a fenian bastard foreign country so you have to.

Are you on drugs:eek:

edit: lol sorry that was a bit abrupt - i just came into the thread to see what the latest argument was and see you ranting away xD

KeithAFC · 21-02-2011 11:40PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't listen to Sharrow B, Work away on my part, I need all the help I can bloody get!

:eek: No way!! Really? Hell KeithAFC, ya need to be more stealth in your approach. Like that ad a few years back; "the future's bright, the future's orange". We nearly, nearly didnt notice that ya sash wearin git. *shakes fist* That's what ye should be aiming for. What the hell am I saying!!! :eek: Right ignore that K. It came from a fenian bastard foreign country so you have to.

lol omg.:p Don't be so offensive. Im going to get on the bus and travel to your house to be offended like a certain parade every year..

Wibbs · 21-02-2011 11:41PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why is the pope such an evil and big leading figure in the world?

Cos back in the day, the evolving doctrine of Protestantism needed a boogie man? If you think about it, we're all boogie men and women if a deity did exist. But that's what it's based on. The breakaway churches of Europe needed a boogie man, like star wars needs darth vader, like Eden needs the snake. Yin and yang as our eastern bros and sis' would say.

Brenireland · 21-02-2011 11:41PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Im sorry but that is a crock of sh1t. Its a sin to lie you know.

Okay,could you highlight the part of my post that you reckon is sinful?,I have not forced my belief onto anyone else through my posts,Nor do they Government force the church to force their belief through the education systems!

Every school in Ireland now allows/and must allow multi-national/& religious students in their schools and if the education system is forcing beliefs on those in the system then the European Courts of human rights should be informed,However they are not,meaning everyone is allowed practice what religion they want freely.

Ghost Buster · 21-02-2011 11:42PM

Brenireland wrote: »

The church done wrong as have many society's/organisations on earth.

Your Question is not a Yes/No type Question,their are over 3 Billion Catholics on earth,put your question to them if you wish.

Ok. The Church has done wrong. You have just criticised it so get praying for yourself.
It is a yes or no question for individuals. You are an individual so stop dodging the question
Yes or No?

Dailwatcher · 21-02-2011 11:42PM

:DSprung again!! I voted No...and you're right I'm not a Roman Catholic

Wibbs · 21-02-2011 11:45PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Are you on drugs:eek:

chance would be a fine thing...

edit: lol sorry that was a bit abrupt - i just came into the thread to see what the latest argument was and see you ranting away xD

Eh.... HELLO? Me? Good god lass.....

:)

KeithAFC wrote: »

lol omg.:p Don't be so offensive. Im going to get on the bus and travel to your house to be offended like a certain parade every year..

Hey work away. I'll put on the kettle and have a few six packs for the less(or is that more) wee frees.

Seaneh · 21-02-2011 11:46PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea but the Protestants have been brainwashed too. Well for a start the only source material they had and reference to this day was "edited" by the early Roman church to suit the growth of it's spiritual empire. The first edition king James bible is based on that edit. In a way the Catholics are correct, they are the (self editing) source going way back. The Protestants may have gone back to square one in their heads, but it was a second and third century(if not later) "square one".

This just isn't true.

First of all, the KJV is a crap translation anyway and only became popular about 100 years ago, before that is was dismissed by almost all demoninations.
It reads well, but it's a terrible translation and was translated for a reason.

Second of all, most modern translations are translated from the earliest sources available, The ESV, ASV, New Jerusalem etc are all translated from 1st century greek sources for the NT and much earlier sources for the OT. The have used hunderds of sources for the OT from the koine to the oldest known hebrew scrolls.
Yo could argue that the books they use were picked by the catholic church in the 3rd centurym nut you;d be over looking the fact that Portestant bibles have less books than catholic bibles because they have omitted the books which they deemed unreliable because they didn't have early enough sources.

21-02-2011 11:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

chance would be a fine thing...

Eh.... HELLO? Me? Good god lass..... :)

More crazily than usual

Nemanja91 · 21-02-2011 11:49PM

We all knows it's just stale ready brek.

Ghost Buster · 21-02-2011 11:51PM

Brenireland wrote: »

Okay,could you highlight the part of my post that you reckon is sinful?,I have not forced my belief onto anyone else through my posts,Nor do they Government force the church to force their belief through the education systems!

Every school in Ireland now allows/and must allow multi-national/& religious students in their schools and if the education system is forcing beliefs on those in the system then the European Courts of human rights should be informed,However they are not,meaning everyone is allowed practice what religion they want freely.

The entire post is a lie and now you have moved the goal posts. This is not about you forcing beliefs onto any body but about people of one religion being granted special privilage over other members of the state of other or no beliefs.
Over 90% of our schools have a catholic ethos. You couldnt buy a condom until recently, teachers have to report to the Bishop when they wish to change schools,God is integral in our constitution, paedo priests and incarceration of adult women was once above the reach of the law.
And if you didnt notice a brave leitrim man became national news recently for objecting to his child being indoctrinated against his will.. and the European Courts are more than a little interested in our backward little country
You practice the most twisted logic and impressive mental gymnastics I have ever encountered.

Wibbs · 21-02-2011 11:52PM

Seaneh wrote: »

This just isn't true.

First of all, the KJV is a crap translation anyway and only became popular about 100 years ago, before that is was dismissed by almost all demoninations.
It reads well, but it's a terrible translation and was translated for a reason.

Second of all, most modern translations are translated from the earliest sources available, The ESV, ASV, New Jerusalem etc are all translated from 1st century greek sources for the NT and much earlier sources for the OT. The have used hunderds of sources for the OT from the koine to the oldest known hebrew scrolls.
Yo could argue that the books they use were picked by the catholic church in the 3rd centurym nut you;d be over looking the fact that Portestant bibles have less books than catholic bibles because they have omitted the books which they deemed unreliable because they didn't have early enough sources.

The early church, the roman church was very good at picking what it liked (even if it was ultimately to the detriment of Rome) and excising what it didn't like. Scholarship was subsumed to the needs of the empire/civil authority more often than not.

Brenireland · 21-02-2011 11:53PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Ok. The Church has done wrong. You have just criticised it so get praying for yourself.
It is a yes or no question for individuals. You are an individual so stop dodging the question
Yes or No?

I do,I pray each day for those that sin/and for those that set out to do wrong/and for those who try to spread corruption!

Morag · 21-02-2011 11:53PM

Brenireland wrote: »

Don't think I was actually forcing anything to be fair,Nor those the state allow the Catholic Church force the Beliefs of the church on others,this is not the truth as everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

You stated that jesus died on the cross for everyone.
That is the doctrine of dominionism, the notion that all humans and their souls are under the domain of your god.

Morag · 21-02-2011 11:56PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Work away on my part, I need all the help I can bloody get!

I don't think a year and day of High Masses will make a difference for hertics like yourself. But here have one of these http://www.factzoo.com/sites/all/img/insects/scarab-beetle.jpg

Brenireland · 21-02-2011 11:58PM

Sharrow wrote: »

You stated that jesus died on the cross for everyone.
That is the doctrine of dominionism, the notion that all humans and their souls are under the domain of your god.

yes,and everyone has the right to agree or disagree/I do not know how what I said seemed "Forceful",it was a post in fairness.

Morag · 21-02-2011 11:59PM

Brenireland wrote: »

Okay,could you highlight the part of my post that you reckon is sinful?,I have not forced my belief onto anyone else through my posts,Nor do they Government force the church to force their belief through the education systems!

Every school in Ireland now allows/and must allow multi-national/& religious students in their schools and if the education system is forcing beliefs on those in the system then the European Courts of human rights should be informed,However they are not,meaning everyone is allowed practice what religion they want freely.

This is not true.
The 92% of primary schools patroned by the Roman Catholic church do no have to enrol any child who is not catholic or of the parish it is set up in.
They have an exemption under the equality act.
If they have 30 places and can fill them with catholic children they will and they are under no obligation to take in any other child.

Many will in order to get all the grant money they can to run the school and will consider it a charitable act to take on a non catholic child and try and teach the child catholic morals as part of the ethos of the school.

Seaneh · 22-02-2011 12:06AM

Wibbs wrote: »

The early church, the roman church was very good at picking what it liked (even if it was ultimately to the detriment of Rome) and excising what it didn't like. Scholarship was subsumed to the needs of the empire/civil authority more often than not.

That's all well and good, but the books that have been excluded form the bible are the ones with the least sources, the ones that have no sources before the 2nd and 3rd century and the ones that are completely in disagreement with every other new testament book. It's not like they excluded a load of books with 1st century origins which made sense, they excluded books like the book of "The Book of Thomas" which has about as much in common with Christianity as Nors paganism does.

Brenireland · 22-02-2011 12:09AM

Sharrow wrote: »

This is not true.
The 92% of primary schools patroned by the Roman Catholic church do no have to enrol any child who is not catholic or of the parish it is set up in.
They have an exemption under the equality act.
If they have 30 places and can fill them with catholic children they will and they are under no obligation to take in any other child.

Many will in order to get all the grant money they can to run the school and will consider it a charitable act to take on a non catholic child and try and teach the child catholic morals as part of the ethos of the school.

92%?,Recent,Link for that statistic?

Thing is Religion is a small aspect of the Irish Education System!,only in the preparation of Communion/Confirmation does religion really play apart in Primary education,and in secondary school it isn't even a leaving cert subject/or is option-able.

Morag · 22-02-2011 12:14AM

Brenireland wrote: »

92%?,Recent,Link for that statistic?

I'll dig one up for you.

http://www.ippn.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2623:nine-out-of-10-primary-schools-are-under-catholic-patronage-irishtimes&catid=50:education-news&Itemid=158&el_mcal_month=10&el_mcal_year=2009

Nine out of 10 primary schools are under Catholic patronage [IrishTimes]
Saturday, 30 January 2010 12:22

How much power does the Catholic Church wield in primary education?, asks SEÁN FLYNN, Education Editor

What is the extent of church involvement in primary schools?

Today, the Catholic Church is patron of more than 90 per cent of primary schools in the State. Of the 3,169 primary schools, 2,894 are under Catholic patronage. Most of the others are under the control of other churches.

How much power does the Catholic Church exercise in schools?

It’s considerable. Like every other patron, the local bishop appoints all principal teachers. He also nominates two of each eight-member board of management, including the chairperson. The patron must also approve all teacher appointments or dismissals made by the board. In certain circumstances, the patron can also stand down the board.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0305/education.html

The Department of Education will shortly be releasing details of ten urban areas where it believes there is a surplus of Catholic schools and a need for some of them to shut down.

In a significant statement on the issue of patronage, the Minister for Education said it would be up to the church itself to identify the particular schools in these areas that should close.

Batt O'Keeffe said a working group in his department would then decide on a replacement patron for those schools.

Mr O'Keeffe was addressing the AGM of the Catholic Primary School Managers' Association.

His comments follow a meeting last November between department officials and Catholic Bishops where the department undertook to examine locations where a need for a change of school patronage might exist.

The Catholic Church currently runs 92% of Ireland's primary schools.

Brenireland wrote: »

Thing is Religion is a small aspect of the Irish Education System!,only in the preparation of Communion/Confirmation does religion really play apart in Primary education,and in secondary school it isn't even a leaving cert subject/or is option-able.

Not really playing a part?
So then we don't have schools on church lands, with holy statues in the corridors and crucifixes in classrooms and grace before and after lunch and the day started and ended with prayers? Or parish priests popping in to the classrooms on a whim, or cribs being made for art and crafts or hymns being taught as part of music in our primary schools.

Never mind the lack of health based sex education due to the fact that if the church owns the land the school is on then cannon laws applies and pupils, staff and visitors are not allowed to teach anything which contradicts the churches stance on topics.

You seems very out of touch with how things are in schools, more time is spent on religion in primary school then science or maths.

Seaneh · 22-02-2011 12:15AM

Sharrow wrote: »

You stated that jesus died on the cross for everyone.
That is the doctrine of dominionism, the notion that all humans and their souls are under the domain of your god.

They are.
You don't have to believe it, if you're atheist you most likely don't believe in the existence of a soul, so why would you carem if you don't believe in God and don't believe in the existence of a soul why do you care if anyone claims the non-existent God has dominion over your non-existent soul?

It's like you're trying to be offended.

Morag · 22-02-2011 12:21AM

Seaneh wrote: »

They are.
You don't have to believe it, if you're atheist you most likely don't believe in the existence of a soul, so why would you carem if you don't believe in God and don't believe in the existence of a soul why do you care if anyone claims the non-existent God has dominion over your non-existent soul?

It's like you're trying to be offended.

I am not an atheist.
I know I have a soul and some god of a collection desert tribes from half the world away does not have dibs on it.
I still am awaiting for the Bible quotations to show where JVH or his son lays claim to all the people of all nations.

Seaneh · 22-02-2011 12:23AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

The entire post is a lie and now you have moved the goal posts. This is not about you forcing beliefs onto any body but about people of one religion being granted special privilage over other members of the state of other or no beliefs.
Over 90% of our schools have a catholic ethos. You couldnt buy a condom until recently, teachers have to report to the Bishop when they wish to change schools,God is integral in our constitution, paedo priests and incarceration of adult women was once above the reach of the law.
And if you didnt notice a brave leitrim man became national news recently for objecting to his child being indoctrinated against his will.. and the European Courts are more than a little interested in our backward little country
You practice the most twisted logic and impressive mental gymnastics I have ever encountered.

Sharrow wrote: »

This is not true.
The 92% of primary schools patroned by the Roman Catholic church do no have to enrol any child who is not catholic or of the parish it is set up in.
They have an exemption under the equality act.
If they have 30 places and can fill them with catholic children they will and they are under no obligation to take in any other child.

Many will in order to get all the grant money they can to run the school and will consider it a charitable act to take on a non catholic child and try and teach the child catholic morals as part of the ethos of the school.

See, it's all well and good ranting and raving about Catholic control of schools and how it shouldn't be. And I agree, the there shouldn't be as many Catholic run schools. But who the feck else of providing an education system in this country? The government certainly hasn't for the last almost 100 years.

If the Catholic church stopped providing educational services tomorrow, this country would have no education system at all.
Same goes for hospitals.

If people (you) are really bothered, form a comitee and form an Educate Together organisation in your area, apply for funding and so long as you have the number and the right system, it will be granted. As it has all across the country. Or you could lobby for the government to open more VEC schools without Catholic influence, which has also been slightly more common in recent years.

The catholic church, funnily enough, encourage people to do these things, they don't want to be as involved as they are, but right now they have no choice, if they withdraw funding and services, the system collapses. So long as people and the government don't pull their fingers out and wipe their own arses, they are stuck doing it for them (you).

My kids won't be going to a Catholic school if i get a choice, but I won't piss and moan about it if there is no VEC/mixed national/educate together school in my area, I will either try and form a group to start one or I will consider moving or driving a little longer in the mornings. If these options fail I will be glad that there is a parish school I can send them to as a back up.

Do you believe that the communion bread is the actual body of christ?

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