Blue lights driving- problems???

paraletic · 19-02-2011 9:58pm

Delancey wrote: »

In the example given by the OP did those other drivers commit an offence ?
Is there a specific offence of failing to yield to an Emergency Services vehicle ?

If a Garda car is on blues and twos and another driver fails to yield is there any point in the observer noting the registration number ?

The Criminal Justice Act 2006 which was signed into law by the President on 16 July and brought into effect from 1 August contains specific provisions in relation to attacks on emergency workers. Section 185 of the Act amends section 19 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994. Section 19 had provided for specific offences relating to assaulting or obstructing a peace officer, defined as a member of the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces or prison officers acting in the execution of their duty. Section 185 of the new Act expands the definition of "peace officers" to include members of the fire brigade and ambulance personnel. In addition the Act creates specific offences of threatening, assaulting, resisting, wilfully obstructing or impeding doctors, dentists, nurses, midwives, pharmacists, other health service workers and any persons assisting them in or at a hospital.
The penalties are also being increased. The maximum penalty for assault or threats to commit assault is a fine and/or 7 years imprisonment. The maximum penalty in relation to wilful obstruction or impeding a person providing medical services at or in hospital is a fine of Euro2,500 and/or 6 months imprisonment.

Yeah...... i know the above law is relating to public order offences and not traffic offences, but i just thought i'd put it up!!
(although, the op did mention a driver shouting abuse at him, thats a public order problem

, 7 years is probably a bit harsh though, but it might teach them a lesson)

wreckless · 20-02-2011 12:32am

education?

thats why the RSA spend 10`s of thousands of euros on adverts teaching couch potatoes how to use roundabouts on tv yeah? :mad:

now education on how to drive or react when driving and an ES vehicle is either coming at you or coming up behind you. That sort of advert was on ITV years ago and i suggested to our ACFO only on thursday last when we doing our "driving when responding to calls" SOG 3.1.

thanks for all the references to the law book too lads, needed them for some of the other drivers and ACFOs too.

Solair · 20-02-2011 12:45am

In most civilised countries obstructing an emergency vechicle is a criminal offence and you can face fines, driving licence penalties or even jail time.

Fit a camera to front of emergency vechicles and you have very quick and easy evidence to bring prosecution.

shampon · 20-02-2011 3:50am

guil wrote: »

surely they arent that heavy
another user said ya need a c1 to drive them but that would only cover ya upto 7.5 tonne

It should read 8 tonne/sarcasm. I'm just implying that the people who act dumb and rude to a hurtling Van, Ambo or Fire Truck blue lighting are annoying. Plus what if there had of been a really serious situation on the ambulance? Too many people these days are me féiners.

Terrontress · 20-02-2011 9:16am

foinse wrote: »

I believe you'll find if you go back and read the OP properly, you will see that the OP states that he was halfway through the road works when the lights changed and the cars came against him. This means he was already on the one way system and driving correctly. It also means that despite seeing that there was an emergency vehicle coming the drivers decided to drive into the one way system forcing him to pull in to let them past. So this thread is about drivers being ignorant about how to act around emergency vehicles and it is also about them caring more about themselves than some person who's life is in serious danger.

well son, sometimes these temporary lights set ups are very long and it might not be possible to see from one end to the other. They are not based round standard traffic light rules. They are often badly sited and badly timed and have nobody working on the road, leading to frustration by road users. Add to that someone who doesn't move away efficiently once the signals change and it is a powder keg waiting to explode!

Having said all that though, I'd be surprised if more than one driver in a frustrated stream of ten would willfully impede an ambulance and perhaps the OP's frustration at the poor setup could cloud his judgement as to the intention of the other road users.

source · 20-02-2011 10:46am

Don't call me "son", It is very rude and condescending, and I won't engage with someone who is being condescending towards me.

Rodin · 20-02-2011 10:52am

You see an ambulance coming?
Just get the **** out of the way

dr ro · 20-02-2011 10:59am

Any professional driver or e.s. driver will encounter countless bad drivers everyday. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the first oncoming driver wasn't looking beyond the traffic light in front of them. A lot of drivers drive about 10 yards in front of their cars, whereas a more aware driver will observe as far ahead as possible. Cut them some slack, maybe they were on their phone! As for the other drivers, perhaps they couldn't see past the first one. The ones that sit frozen with their hands on their ears as you try maneuver by make me laugh, kind of.

dr ro · 20-02-2011 11:00am

foinse wrote: »

Don't call me "son", It is very rude and condescending, and I won't engage with someone who is being condescending towards me.

maybe it's your dad!

gbee · 20-02-2011 11:44am

dr ro wrote: »

Any professional driver or e.s. driver will encounter countless bad drivers everyday.

And the post concerns a specific situation which is not met daily by everyone. For those who know the area, a landslide a little outside Kinsale had an unmanned red light ~ it was a nightmare, sharp bend and often the timing slipped so two red or two greens were shown.

Crazy situation.

I think it is right to confine our points to the incident as reported as I don't believe the public in general behave in this manner as a matter of course.

The incident I think is a special situation.

source · 20-02-2011 12:07pm

gbee wrote: »

And the post concerns a specific situation which is not met daily by everyone. For those who know the area, a landslide a little outside Kinsale had an unmanned red light ~ it was a nightmare, sharp bend and often the timing slipped so two red or two greens were shown.

Crazy situation.

I think it is right to confine our points to the incident as reported as I don't believe the public in general behave in this manner as a matter of course.

The incident I think is a special situation.

As a member of the Emergency Services, i can categorically say that this is not an isolated incident and one that happens daily around this country. I have experienced things like this on numerous occasions, For example approaching a t-junction in a marked patrol car, with all emergency equipment activated, on the "main road" which was as with the op was down to 1 lane. A person decided it would be a great idea to pull out into the lane as we were approaching, almost causing an accident. The driver then stuck to the posted construction speed limit of 30kph for the duration of the works, with us behind with lights and sirens going. I used the PA system to urge her to either pull in a bit so we could pass or to speed up. Nothing. All the while a young lad was getting seven shades of crap knocked out of him in town and we were the closest car, held up for 1.5 minutes by this motorist. If it weren't for this motorist the victim wouldn't have been injured as seriously as he was, as we would have gotten there in time to help him. Because of this motorist the attackers had fled the scene by the time we arrived. Which meant that identifying them was made all the harder. In our jobs seconds can make all the difference between a successful job and one that disintegrates to a hellish mess.

Impeding emergency service vehicles has serious consequences for the people who are waiting for us at the end of our journey.

This is also not the only incident of this nature I have experienced. Please stop trying to make excuses for the bad behaviour of motorists, I'm out there everyday watching them do this. No matter what you say I nor any other ES personnel will not suddenly agree with you.

Dermot Illogical · 20-02-2011 12:48pm

foinse wrote: »

This is also not the only incident of this nature I have experienced. Please stop trying to make excuses for the bad behaviour of motorists, I'm out there everyday watching them do this. No matter what you say I nor any other ES personnel will not suddenly agree with you.

Incidents like this are also why Traffic Corps have to be so "assertive" when doing escort duty. It's something that many motorists see as being arrogant and agressive, but there's actually a very strong need for it given the abysmal driving standards among that very same group of motorists.

EMSCHAP · 20-02-2011 12:51pm

The examples given by op and foinse highlight the bad standards of driving in this country. Do driving instructors give even a passing mention to student drivers as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches with visible and audible warning devices in operation. It's so long since I learned to drive, I can't remember.

dr ro · 20-02-2011 1:33pm

EMSCHAP wrote: »

The examples given by op and foinse highlight the bad standards of driving in this country. Do driving instructors give even a passing mention to student drivers as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches with visible and audible warning devices in operation. It's so long since I learned to drive, I can't remember.

I would imagine it would be very difficult to give a novice driver a cover all reactionary response to encountering e.s. vehicles. Given that you could be approached from front, back, left lane, right lane, left, right or coming straight at you in your lane, how can you theoretically advise someone what to do. The best advice is just keep your eyes and ears open. Cars that automatically pull in to the left quite often block empty bus lanes when there isn't a need to react at all. That's why you sometimes see blue lighted vehicles without sirens in bus lanes, people instinctively pull left without looking when they hear sirens.

gbee · 20-02-2011 2:54pm

Keep Your Sirens ON. Please.

Some very strange situations are reported here in this thread, I was not there so can't speak for the people involved, just adding my own views in an effort to get some resolution.

The road works seem to get off scott free* Point number one is ensure we have some sort of system or pass way as clearly evidenced.

One of my pet peeves is in busy traffic, approaching a junction and I heard the blues n two but don't see anything. I'm trying to get a baring on where they are coming from, I find it very difficult.

I've have close encounters with those big yellow transits a few times because they've turned off their sirens and I don't know where they are.

Many times the sound gets reflected and bounced around and seemingly is coming form may different directions. A simple solution to this is to keep the klaxon or siren going, eventually the Doppler effect will locate the direction of the vehicle ~ but not if it's turned off and on and off.

Thanks.

dr ro · 20-02-2011 3:06pm

there's no need to have sirens on constantly. There are certain situations where not having sirens on is favourable.

CaseyRyback · 20-02-2011 3:37pm

gbee wrote: »

Keep Your Sirens ON. Please.

Thanks.

That's the driver's call; the person best placed to know when to have two-tones activated, or not.

Thanks.

civdef · 20-02-2011 3:45pm

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

CaseyRyback · 20-02-2011 3:51pm

civdef wrote: »

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

Civdef if experience has taught us anything its that everyone is an expert on the work of the emergency services, especially those with no experience! Watch a couple of episodes of road wars and and you're as qualified as the next fella :rolleyes:

gbee · 20-02-2011 3:56pm

civdef wrote: »

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

Well, going on this thread, I'm one of your Obstacles. I'm offering my view, I'm sure I'm not alone.

It's simple, I'm coming to a cross roads in the city where the block encompasses a city hospital, so ambulances are frequent and usually come from behind me when going home.

I hear the siren coming from the hospital to me left, I look and see nothing, I'm on the junction with a green light holding up traffic. The siren stops and I look to see where he is, can't see him, I presume he has entered the hospital from the left so I advance only to have to stop suddenly as the ambo appears form my right.

If emergency personnel don't want to take this on board as a safety item worth mentioning, then maybe it's worth airing elsewhere.

I am a bit annoyed at the tone expressed by emergency professionals I this thread too, to be honest, we all have a duty of care.

Terrontress · 20-02-2011 4:26pm

foinse wrote: »

Don't call me "son", It is very rude and condescending, and I won't engage with someone who is being condescending towards me.

Well, it's just a habit I have fallen in to. People tend to enjoy it.

It doesn't make my point any less valid.

Terrontress · 20-02-2011 4:33pm

dr ro wrote: »

I would imagine it would be very difficult to give a novice driver a cover all reactionary response to encountering e.s. vehicles. Given that you could be approached from front, back, left lane, right lane, left, right or coming straight at you in your lane, how can you theoretically advise someone what to do. The best advice is just keep your eyes and ears open. Cars that automatically pull in to the left quite often block empty bus lanes when there isn't a need to react at all. That's why you sometimes see blue lighted vehicles without sirens in bus lanes, people instinctively pull left without looking when they hear sirens.

I always attempt to move to the left in moving traffic, allowing ES vehicle to move to the right of me or if an ES vehicle is coming in the other direction it gives the ES room to move on to my side of the road. If I am stopping the car to enable the ES to come on to my side of the road, I look up to the cab of the ES vehicle. I think some times a bit of eye contact communicates my intentions entirely to the driver.

I know that the ES driver is likely three times as proficient behind the wheel as me so it's just a matter of getting out of his way and making sure he knows what I am at.

murf313 · 20-02-2011 4:34pm

gbee wrote: »

Not the point of this thread.

In this thread and in this incident the ambulance went against a red light at road works where a one way system was operating.

Sometimes there is just no where to go. And I don't think the transit is that heavy, 2.5 tonnes is classification.

Just to be clear here I was already halfway down the traffic works when the lights changed.
We had lights and sirens on.
We were in full view of the traffic when they started to drive against us.
As I said at least 20 vehicles did this with only 1 lady pulling in off the road

EMSCHAP · 20-02-2011 5:14pm

dr ro wrote: »

I would imagine it would be very difficult to give a novice driver a cover all reactionary response to encountering e.s. vehicles. Given that you could be approached from front, back, left lane, right lane, left, right or coming straight at you in your lane, how can you theoretically advise someone what to do. The best advice is just keep your eyes and ears open. Cars that automatically pull in to the left quite often block empty bus lanes when there isn't a need to react at all. That's why you sometimes see blue lighted vehicles without sirens in bus lanes, people instinctively pull left without looking when they hear sirens.

Simple. Give way to emergency vehicles who have their lights and sirens activated. Obviously one cannot prepare each driver for every situation they might meet in their driving careers.

searescue · 20-02-2011 6:17pm

MODS:

Time to close the thread? Going in circles but getting tense.

I, have to use blues every now and then, no matter what tone you put on, how many times you blow the airhorn, if they don't want to move - they wont.

It's bad form as we all know but there's always people who don't give a s**t.

The thread is getting caught up with itself, time to close I think.

CaseyRyback · 20-02-2011 6:39pm

searescue wrote: »

The thread is getting caught up with itself, time to close I think.

How can you mod so effectively from way back there on the back seat? :eek:

source · 20-02-2011 6:43pm

People in this country just can't drive full stop. Someone in this thread said that sirens make people instinctively pull into the left. If people were able to drive properly in this country, they would make an assessment as they should with every obstacle (anything not your car or the road) they encounter. ie... look out front window, look out side windows and check all blind spots. check mirrors and keep scanning the area, constantly checking the mirrors until the see the obstacle and are able to react to it. In this case an emergency services vehicle.

People should be doing this driving down the road. checking everything around them and looking out for obstacles. but instead they cultivate bad habits and don't pay attention to what's going on around them.

stoneill · 20-02-2011 6:45pm

Before thread closes I just want to give my tuppence worth on the OP.

It's sheep mentality.
First bloke was a selfish cnut - everyone else blindly followed behind with possibly no brain activity going on.

gbee · 20-02-2011 7:34pm

murf313 wrote: »

Just to be clear here I was already halfway down the traffic works when the lights changed.

Right. I'm afraid I said you went through a red light. Must re read.

Stench Blossoms · 20-02-2011 7:50pm

buzzman wrote: »

Let's put this urban myth about blue lighting it for tea, dinner etc to bed once & for all, we don't ****ing do it.

You might not do it but there sure is gardai who do do it.

I was seeing a garda who collected me from college, in the squad car and put the sirens on. Maybe he was showing off, but he did it anyway.

I would still always pull over if I saw any emergency vehicle coming my way.

Blue lights driving- problems???

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