Blue lights driving- problems???

murf313

I had a really bad experience whilst on an AS1 call yesterday. We were coming into a town on lights and sirens when we approached roadworks (with traffic lights) one side of the road was closed off.
We go about half way up the road works when obviously the oncoming traffics light went green and the started driving towards us.
There is no way these people could not have seen us coming (big yellow ambo with blue lights and siren whaling!!)
Anyway, we ended up having to pull in to the closed section of the road to let the traffic by.
To make it worse they just kept on coming- at least 25 cars went by and only pulled in out of the way. One woman in a van actually started waving her arms and giving us abuse out the window....
Only when the lights went red where we able to pull back out and continue up the road.

What is wrong with people these days?? do they not have any decency any more? anyone else have an experience like this?

(sorry for the rant- just very annoyed over it)

480905

murf313 wrote: »

I had a really bad experience whilst on an AS1 call yesterday. We were coming into a town on lights and sirens when we approached roadworks (with traffic lights) one side of the road was closed off.
We go about half way up the road works when obviously the oncoming traffics light went green and the started driving towards us.
There is no way these people could not have seen us coming (big yellow ambo with blue lights and siren whaling!!)
Anyway, we ended up having to pull in to the closed section of the road to let the traffic by.
To make it worse they just kept on coming- at least 25 cars went by and only pulled in out of the way. One woman in a van actually started waving her arms and giving us abuse out the window....
Only when the lights went red where we able to pull back out and continue up the road.

What is wrong with people these days?? do they not have any decency any more? anyone else have an experience like this?

(sorry for the rant- just very annoyed over it)

Driving under beacon doesn't entitle anyone to break the traffic laws if I'm not mistaken. You're still bound by the rules of the road. Traffic lights still have to be obeyed and only continue if it's safe to do so . (I'm open to correction on that if anyone can ) I can understand your frustration and it wouldn't be something I'd do myself......but they had the right of way if the lights were with them and had every right to keep driving.

murf313

480905 wrote: »

Driving under beacon doesn't entitle anyone to break the traffic laws if I'm not mistaken. You're still bound by the rules of the road. Traffic lights still have to be obeyed and only continue if it's safe to do so . (I'm open to correction on that if anyone can ) I can understand your frustration and it wouldn't be something I'd do myself......but they had the right of way if the lights were with them and had every right to keep driving.

I don't think there was anywhere in my post where I stated I was entitled to right of way. I'm well aware of the rules of the road. The point I was trying to make is when did people become so self centred that they couldn't wait 10 seconds for an ambulance to pass?
At the end of the day we weren't on blue lights for the good of my health......

480905

I'm being devils advocate there horse. . . .Settle. Thats the Mentality of Joe Public all over...Once it doesn't concern them ...they don't give a f''k

smokie2008

480905 wrote: »

Driving under beacon doesn't entitle anyone to break the traffic laws if I'm not mistaken. You're still bound by the rules of the road. Traffic lights still have to be obeyed and only continue if it's safe to do so . (I'm open to correction on that if anyone can ) I can understand your frustration and it wouldn't be something I'd do myself......but they had the right of way if the lights were with them and had every right to keep driving.

Who gives a sh!t, he's talking about people being decent, Its not exactly rocket science that when you see a big yellow Ambulance with blue flashing lights coming towards you that you get the fúck out of its way, could be your mother, gran, brother a small child, whatever.

I really can't understand people who don't do absolutely everything to get the hell out of the way of an EMERGENCY vehicle.

It absolutely infuriates me to see people doing this.
What is their mind set??
What do they be thinking???
I'm not letting an ambulance passed no way, I'm on the way to work and can't spare 10 seconds to move out of a Medics way.:mad:

And I'm in no way connected to any emergency services.
Rant Over.

CaseyRyback

The general public doesn't take kindly to being delayed for any reason and if someone's life is at risk, well that's not their problem so just get out of the way already!

You get the same thing at fatal traffic accidents, fires, bomb alerts.... in fact anything that causes even the slightest delay for the general public usually results in a variety of complaints, abuse and even assaults.

Just accept it, and try not to despair of humanity too much.

uberwolf

CaseyRyback wrote: »

Just accept it

but it isn't acceptable. It just isn't.

murf313

480905 wrote: »

I'm being devils advocate there horse. . . .Settle. Thats the Mentality of Joe Public all over...Once it doesn't concern them ...they don't give a f''k

Apologies if i sounded aggressive there, it wasn't intentional.

murf313

I'm used to the usual isolated incident of the oul boy in his jeep who refuses to let you by but I've never came across such a high volume of people not giving a fcuk.

CaseyRyback

uberwolf wrote: »

but it isn't acceptable. It just isn't.

Tell that to the morons who do this stuff.

When you've tired of banging your head against a wall and have an ulcer, then accept it.

wildefalcon

My experience, for what it's worth, is that most people would drive over a dead body in the middle of the road, if it would save them 5 minutes.

Afterall the same people voted Fianna Fail into power.

source

480905 wrote: »

Driving under beacon doesn't entitle anyone to break the traffic laws if I'm not mistaken. You're still bound by the rules of the road. Traffic lights still have to be obeyed and only continue if it's safe to do so . (I'm open to correction on that if anyone can ) I can understand your frustration and it wouldn't be something I'd do myself......but they had the right of way if the lights were with them and had every right to keep driving.

Once more I shall troupe out this section from the Road Traffic Act 2004.

27.—Requirements under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2004 relating to vehicles and requirements, restrictions and prohibitions relating to the driving and use of vehicles, other than those provided under sections 49 and 50 (inserted by sections 10 and 11, respectively, of the Act of 1994), 51A and 52 (inserted by sections 49 and 50, respectively, of the Act of 1968) and 53 of the Principal Act and sections 12, 13, 14 and 15 of the Act of 1994, do not apply to a driver of a fire brigade vehicle, an ambulance or the use by a member of the Garda Síochána of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member or a person driving or using a vehicle under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána, where such use does not endanger the safety of road users.

Basically members of AGS, Fire and Ambulance Service are not bound by the Road Traffic Acts except for Sections 49 (Drunk driving), 50 (Drunk in charge), and 53 (Dangerous Driving). Sections 12, 13, 14 and 15 of the 2004 Act mentioned in the above quote relate to providing a sample for a Drunk driving charge.

480905

"where such use does not endanger the safety of other road users" is my point.. If an Ambulance driver or Garda broke a light in the course of their duties and crashed, the driver of the vehicle that broke the lights would be subject to investigation. As I said... driving with beacons doesn't give the driver free rein to take over the road. The OP is dead right in venting frustration at Joe Public

gbee

murf313 wrote: »

(sorry for the rant- just very annoyed over it)

People get very fixated at the best of times. Given the inordinate delay forced on the average motorist at these impromptu traffic lights and given I've seen them locked for twenty minutes a time, this fixation and aggravation gets extreme.

So just as they get cleared after and inordinate delay, you come blaring along. Now also the average motorist has no way of knowing if an ambo is on an emergency for just going for tea ~ as one ambo crew were caught out on in Cork several years ago, plus even plumbers have lights nowadays too, so a bit of the immune syndrome gets added to the mix.

To help alleviate this precise example, why not petition for two things, shorter temporary red lights [from what Is see the builders don't know how to set them up] and two, why not have a override emergency pass through fitted to these temp lights by law.

Win win.

CaseyRyback

gbee wrote: »

just going for tea ~ as one ambo crew were caught out on in Cork several years ago

It'd be particularly bad fortune then if it turns out its actually a friend or family member the vehicle is en route to and you're holding it up on account of what one crew did several years ago....according to some newspaper on a slow news day (or was that just some urban legend you heard somewhere, sometime etc).

swiftblade

gbee wrote: »

plus even plumbers have lights nowadays too

Driving big yellow vans with blues and two's? I doubt that.....

Trying to argue a reason for a motorist not pulling in out of the way of an ambo is pointless.
It's not as if they arn't noticible.
Luckily people around my area seem to have more sence and get out of the way.

shampon

Nothing more infuriating then being on an urgent call and some pleb refuses to see a 8 tonne transit with blue flashing lights and three lads screaming at them to move.

gbee

CaseyRyback wrote: »

(or was that just some urban legend you heard somewhere, sometime etc).

Nope it went to court. And at the same time for a similar reason the use of blues on blood transfusion vehicles was suspended too.

source

480905 wrote: »

"where such use does not endanger the safety of other road users" is my point.. If an Ambulance driver or Garda broke a light in the course of their duties and crashed, the driver of the vehicle that broke the lights would be subject to investigation. As I said... driving with beacons doesn't give the driver free rein to take over the road. The OP is dead right in venting frustration at Joe Public

The op wasn't a danger to other road users, You stated that emergency services personnel were bound by the same laws as other road users, and asked to be corrected if possible....Which I did, providing the particular legislation.

The thread is about the fact that road users are ignorant as to how to behave around emergency services vehicles. No only that but often put lives in danger by thinking that their trip is more important than an emergency services vehicle on a blue light run.

Also it doesn't matter how many urban legends people hear. I can guarantee you that for an emergency services driver to be caught using their emergency equipment when not on an emergency call the consequences would be severe. The decision is not taken lightly to turn on lights and sirens and is only done when life or property are in real and serious danger. The attitude of some people in this thread is sickening. If you see an ambulance with lights and sirens going then PULL THE FúCK OVER!!!! and leave it past. The 20 seconds it takes to do this will not delay you but may mean the difference in saving a person's life.

gbee

shampon wrote: »

Nothing more infuriating then being on an urgent call and some pleb refuses to see a 8 tonne transit with blue flashing lights and three lads screaming at them to move.

Not the point of this thread.

In this thread and in this incident the ambulance went against a red light at road works where a one way system was operating.

Sometimes there is just no where to go. And I don't think the transit is that heavy, 2.5 tonnes is classification.

gbee

foinse wrote: »

The thread is about the fact that road users are ignorant as to how to behave around emergency services vehicles. .

Not really in the case brought by the OP.

civdef

gbee wrote: »

Sometimes there is just no where to go. And I don't think the transit is that heavy, 2.5 tonnes is classification.

If they were stopped at the temp lights and saw the ambulance coming up all they had to do was wait where they were till it was clear.

In fairness, one time this happened to me, the construction workers manually stopped oncoming traffic till I got past.

You need a C1 licence to drive current ambulances, which puts your supposition re weight to bed.

shampon

gbee wrote: »

Not the point of this thread.

In this thread and in this incident the ambulance went against a red light at road works where a one way system was operating.

Sometimes there is just no where to go. And I don't think the transit is that heavy, 2.5 tonnes is classification.

Point taken , Just saying how infuriating and selfish it for people to refuse to move when bluelighting...the lights are on for a reason...

swiftblade

Also as a note of reference, those ambulances weigh more than 2.5 tonnes. There is a reason why they have doubled up wheels on the back.

ivabiggon

i know this isn't the reason for this thread but when one sees an emergency vehicle pull over.... to the left, the amount of people who pull to the right sometimes onto on coming traffic...is crazy.
i have noticed this alot with foreign nationals and i'm convinced that it's because they're natural instincts in an emergency is to pull right as if they were in their own country on the other side of the road.

source

gbee wrote: »

Not the point of this thread.

In this thread and in this incident the ambulance went against a red light at road works where a one way system was operating.

Sometimes there is just no where to go. And I don't think the transit is that heavy, 2.5 tonnes is classification.

I believe you'll find if you go back and read the OP properly, you will see that the OP states that he was halfway through the road works when the lights changed and the cars came against him. This means he was already on the one way system and driving correctly. It also means that despite seeing that there was an emergency vehicle coming the drivers decided to drive into the one way system forcing him to pull in to let them past. So this thread is about drivers being ignorant about how to act around emergency vehicles and it is also about them caring more about themselves than some person who's life is in serious danger.

guil

shampon wrote: »

Nothing more infuriating then being on an urgent call and some pleb refuses to see a 8 tonne transit with blue flashing lights and three lads screaming at them to move.

surely they arent that heavy
another user said ya need a c1 to drive them but that would only cover ya upto 7.5 tonne

Tango Alpha 51

Let's put this urban myth about blue lighting it for tea, dinner etc to bed once & for all, we don't ****ing do it. The consequences of driving on our own private licence on blue lights is daunting enough let alone the consequences if management found out we were abusing them. Just for the record I've heard all the myths re this. As for the original post, the members if the public that drove towards the ambulance were plain stupid & it all comes down to lack of education as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches you. Foinse is 100% correct in his posts

CaseyRyback

buzzman wrote: »

the members if the public that drove towards the ambulance were plain stupid & it all comes down to lack of education as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches you.

I think you're being very generous there buzzman. Personally I think education, or the lack thereof, has nothing to do with this. You don't need to be told to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle when on a shout. The actions outlined by the OP here simply boil down to selfishness, arrogance and stupidity (which you already rightly mentioned).

A law akin to that enjoyed by ES crews in the US (failure to yield to an emergency vehicle) were it introduced on Irish roads would generate enough revenue for Government coffers so as to pay off the national debt overnight.

Delancey

In the example given by the OP did those other drivers commit an offence ?
Is there a specific offence of failing to yield to an Emergency Services vehicle ?

If a Garda car is on blues and twos and another driver fails to yield is there any point in the observer noting the registration number ?

CaseyRyback

Delancey wrote: »

In the example given by the OP did those other drivers commit an offence ?

Possibly careless driving but its a bit iffy.

Is there a specific offence of failing to yield to an Emergency Services vehicle ?

Afraid not. Its on the statute books in New York, not sure where else.

If a Garda car is on blues and twos and another driver fails to yield is there any point in the observer noting the registration number?

Again it happens so frequently that you'd be hard pushed to chase up every instance and the observer (when there is one) has more important things to be doing.

paraletic

Delancey wrote: »

In the example given by the OP did those other drivers commit an offence ?
Is there a specific offence of failing to yield to an Emergency Services vehicle ?

If a Garda car is on blues and twos and another driver fails to yield is there any point in the observer noting the registration number ?

The Criminal Justice Act 2006 which was signed into law by the President on 16 July and brought into effect from 1 August contains specific provisions in relation to attacks on emergency workers. Section 185 of the Act amends section 19 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994. Section 19 had provided for specific offences relating to assaulting or obstructing a peace officer, defined as a member of the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces or prison officers acting in the execution of their duty. Section 185 of the new Act expands the definition of "peace officers" to include members of the fire brigade and ambulance personnel. In addition the Act creates specific offences of threatening, assaulting, resisting, wilfully obstructing or impeding doctors, dentists, nurses, midwives, pharmacists, other health service workers and any persons assisting them in or at a hospital.
The penalties are also being increased. The maximum penalty for assault or threats to commit assault is a fine and/or 7 years imprisonment. The maximum penalty in relation to wilful obstruction or impeding a person providing medical services at or in hospital is a fine of Euro2,500 and/or 6 months imprisonment.

Yeah...... i know the above law is relating to public order offences and not traffic offences, but i just thought i'd put it up!!
(although, the op did mention a driver shouting abuse at him, thats a public order problem , 7 years is probably a bit harsh though, but it might teach them a lesson)

wreckless

education?

thats why the RSA spend 10`s of thousands of euros on adverts teaching couch potatoes how to use roundabouts on tv yeah? :mad:

now education on how to drive or react when driving and an ES vehicle is either coming at you or coming up behind you. That sort of advert was on ITV years ago and i suggested to our ACFO only on thursday last when we doing our "driving when responding to calls" SOG 3.1.

thanks for all the references to the law book too lads, needed them for some of the other drivers and ACFOs too.

Solair

In most civilised countries obstructing an emergency vechicle is a criminal offence and you can face fines, driving licence penalties or even jail time.

Fit a camera to front of emergency vechicles and you have very quick and easy evidence to bring prosecution.

shampon

guil wrote: »

surely they arent that heavy
another user said ya need a c1 to drive them but that would only cover ya upto 7.5 tonne

It should read 8 tonne/sarcasm. I'm just implying that the people who act dumb and rude to a hurtling Van, Ambo or Fire Truck blue lighting are annoying. Plus what if there had of been a really serious situation on the ambulance? Too many people these days are me féiners.

Terrontress

foinse wrote: »

I believe you'll find if you go back and read the OP properly, you will see that the OP states that he was halfway through the road works when the lights changed and the cars came against him. This means he was already on the one way system and driving correctly. It also means that despite seeing that there was an emergency vehicle coming the drivers decided to drive into the one way system forcing him to pull in to let them past. So this thread is about drivers being ignorant about how to act around emergency vehicles and it is also about them caring more about themselves than some person who's life is in serious danger.

well son, sometimes these temporary lights set ups are very long and it might not be possible to see from one end to the other. They are not based round standard traffic light rules. They are often badly sited and badly timed and have nobody working on the road, leading to frustration by road users. Add to that someone who doesn't move away efficiently once the signals change and it is a powder keg waiting to explode!

Having said all that though, I'd be surprised if more than one driver in a frustrated stream of ten would willfully impede an ambulance and perhaps the OP's frustration at the poor setup could cloud his judgement as to the intention of the other road users.

source

Don't call me "son", It is very rude and condescending, and I won't engage with someone who is being condescending towards me.

Rodin

You see an ambulance coming?
Just get the **** out of the way

dr ro

Any professional driver or e.s. driver will encounter countless bad drivers everyday. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the first oncoming driver wasn't looking beyond the traffic light in front of them. A lot of drivers drive about 10 yards in front of their cars, whereas a more aware driver will observe as far ahead as possible. Cut them some slack, maybe they were on their phone! As for the other drivers, perhaps they couldn't see past the first one. The ones that sit frozen with their hands on their ears as you try maneuver by make me laugh, kind of.

dr ro

foinse wrote: »

Don't call me "son", It is very rude and condescending, and I won't engage with someone who is being condescending towards me.

maybe it's your dad!

gbee

dr ro wrote: »

Any professional driver or e.s. driver will encounter countless bad drivers everyday.

And the post concerns a specific situation which is not met daily by everyone. For those who know the area, a landslide a little outside Kinsale had an unmanned red light ~ it was a nightmare, sharp bend and often the timing slipped so two red or two greens were shown.

Crazy situation.

I think it is right to confine our points to the incident as reported as I don't believe the public in general behave in this manner as a matter of course.

The incident I think is a special situation.

source

gbee wrote: »

And the post concerns a specific situation which is not met daily by everyone. For those who know the area, a landslide a little outside Kinsale had an unmanned red light ~ it was a nightmare, sharp bend and often the timing slipped so two red or two greens were shown.

Crazy situation.

I think it is right to confine our points to the incident as reported as I don't believe the public in general behave in this manner as a matter of course.

The incident I think is a special situation.

As a member of the Emergency Services, i can categorically say that this is not an isolated incident and one that happens daily around this country. I have experienced things like this on numerous occasions, For example approaching a t-junction in a marked patrol car, with all emergency equipment activated, on the "main road" which was as with the op was down to 1 lane. A person decided it would be a great idea to pull out into the lane as we were approaching, almost causing an accident. The driver then stuck to the posted construction speed limit of 30kph for the duration of the works, with us behind with lights and sirens going. I used the PA system to urge her to either pull in a bit so we could pass or to speed up. Nothing. All the while a young lad was getting seven shades of crap knocked out of him in town and we were the closest car, held up for 1.5 minutes by this motorist. If it weren't for this motorist the victim wouldn't have been injured as seriously as he was, as we would have gotten there in time to help him. Because of this motorist the attackers had fled the scene by the time we arrived. Which meant that identifying them was made all the harder. In our jobs seconds can make all the difference between a successful job and one that disintegrates to a hellish mess.

Impeding emergency service vehicles has serious consequences for the people who are waiting for us at the end of our journey.

This is also not the only incident of this nature I have experienced. Please stop trying to make excuses for the bad behaviour of motorists, I'm out there everyday watching them do this. No matter what you say I nor any other ES personnel will not suddenly agree with you.

Dermot Illogical

foinse wrote: »

This is also not the only incident of this nature I have experienced. Please stop trying to make excuses for the bad behaviour of motorists, I'm out there everyday watching them do this. No matter what you say I nor any other ES personnel will not suddenly agree with you.

Incidents like this are also why Traffic Corps have to be so "assertive" when doing escort duty. It's something that many motorists see as being arrogant and agressive, but there's actually a very strong need for it given the abysmal driving standards among that very same group of motorists.

EMSCHAP

The examples given by op and foinse highlight the bad standards of driving in this country. Do driving instructors give even a passing mention to student drivers as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches with visible and audible warning devices in operation. It's so long since I learned to drive, I can't remember.

dr ro

EMSCHAP wrote: »

The examples given by op and foinse highlight the bad standards of driving in this country. Do driving instructors give even a passing mention to student drivers as to what to do when an ES vehicle approaches with visible and audible warning devices in operation. It's so long since I learned to drive, I can't remember.

I would imagine it would be very difficult to give a novice driver a cover all reactionary response to encountering e.s. vehicles. Given that you could be approached from front, back, left lane, right lane, left, right or coming straight at you in your lane, how can you theoretically advise someone what to do. The best advice is just keep your eyes and ears open. Cars that automatically pull in to the left quite often block empty bus lanes when there isn't a need to react at all. That's why you sometimes see blue lighted vehicles without sirens in bus lanes, people instinctively pull left without looking when they hear sirens.

gbee

Keep Your Sirens ON. Please.

Some very strange situations are reported here in this thread, I was not there so can't speak for the people involved, just adding my own views in an effort to get some resolution.

The road works seem to get off scott free* Point number one is ensure we have some sort of system or pass way as clearly evidenced.

One of my pet peeves is in busy traffic, approaching a junction and I heard the blues n two but don't see anything. I'm trying to get a baring on where they are coming from, I find it very difficult.

I've have close encounters with those big yellow transits a few times because they've turned off their sirens and I don't know where they are.

Many times the sound gets reflected and bounced around and seemingly is coming form may different directions. A simple solution to this is to keep the klaxon or siren going, eventually the Doppler effect will locate the direction of the vehicle ~ but not if it's turned off and on and off.

Thanks.

dr ro

there's no need to have sirens on constantly. There are certain situations where not having sirens on is favourable.

CaseyRyback

gbee wrote: »

Keep Your Sirens ON. Please.

Thanks.

That's the driver's call; the person best placed to know when to have two-tones activated, or not.

Thanks.

civdef

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

CaseyRyback

civdef wrote: »

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

Civdef if experience has taught us anything its that everyone is an expert on the work of the emergency services, especially those with no experience! Watch a couple of episodes of road wars and and you're as qualified as the next fella :rolleyes:

gbee

civdef wrote: »

Gbee, have you any experience or knowledge of emergency driving to be lecturing people on how to do it?

Well, going on this thread, I'm one of your Obstacles. I'm offering my view, I'm sure I'm not alone.

It's simple, I'm coming to a cross roads in the city where the block encompasses a city hospital, so ambulances are frequent and usually come from behind me when going home.

I hear the siren coming from the hospital to me left, I look and see nothing, I'm on the junction with a green light holding up traffic. The siren stops and I look to see where he is, can't see him, I presume he has entered the hospital from the left so I advance only to have to stop suddenly as the ambo appears form my right.

If emergency personnel don't want to take this on board as a safety item worth mentioning, then maybe it's worth airing elsewhere.

I am a bit annoyed at the tone expressed by emergency professionals I this thread too, to be honest, we all have a duty of care.