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Time for "Martial Law" on Public Sector Pay...

1356

Comments

  • #62
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    dissed doc wrote: »
    No it hasn't. Public service in Ireland spending is significantly less per person compared to 1st world western-EU countries.
    Most of those have large, modern military forces.


  • #63
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Spending on our public sector has doubled between 1999 and 2009 .

    Now I do not think our public services ( police, schools, health system etc ) was all that bad in 1999.

    Time we saved 9 billion a year + got spending back to 2009 levels. The public service and their pensioners have bankrupted the country.

    Cut their pay, + tell them to work, not doss / surf the net / take sickies / time off to cash their non-existant paychecks etc.


  • #64
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gigino wrote: »
    The public service and their pensioners have bankrupted the country.

    PURE BS.....:rolleyes:
    Our national budget and cutbacks would get the country back on par wit its spending, wether thats by PS cuts, taxes etc etc it would of been sorted in the next 4-6 years. if it wasnt for the huge bank bail outs.

    gigino wrote: »
    tell them to work
    one minute you say your are a PS worker and We need to pull together, then the next you say that they need to work, i call spoofer here spouting BS just trying to fuel the flames of the constant PS begrudgery/bashing that goes on her by a select few posters, maybe 10 in total, i worry about your blood pressure lads......


  • #65
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    kceire wrote: »
    PURE BS.....:rolleyes:

    Its not actually. Spending on the public sector pay was approx 9 billion in 1999, it was 18 billion in 2009. The public sector at the top includes the Politicians and the Central Bank and the Regulator. They were in charge of running the country. Making the laws and implementing them. Did any private sector worker break the law of the country in creating the mess ? If so , they should be fined and / or in jail. However its the top levels of the public sector who must bear responsibility for the mess. If the top levels of the Public Sector ran the country correctly we would not be in this mess.


  • #66
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    gigino wrote: »
    Did any private sector worker break the law of the country in creating the mess ? If so , they should be fined and / or in jail. However its the top levels of the public sector who must bear responsibility for the mess. If the top levels of the Public Sector ran the country correctly we would not be in this mess.

    Well for a start politicians are voted in by both private and public sector and everyone else over 18.

    Private bankers, Private developers, private black economy workers, private tax cheats all played a roll in the mess we are in.


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  • #67
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    sollar wrote: »
    Well for a start politicians are voted in by both private and public sector and everyone else over 18.

    Private bankers, Private developers, private black economy workers, private tax cheats all played a roll in the mess we are in.

    Black economy / tax cheats ? The teacher giving grinds or the lecturer in quantity surveying or architecture doing a few nixers did not cause the crises.

    It was the public sectors job ( government, central bank, regulator etc ) to control the economy. If other people broke the law they should be fined / put in jail. Yet the government cannot do that, can they or did they ?

    They know it was themselves / the public sector which caused the mess     and made the huge money out of the situation. Who is left with the biggest pensions...the government, central bank, regulator etc


  • #68
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    gigino wrote: »
    Who is left with the biggest pensions

    good question....i would imagine it was the Executive Private Sector Bankers that have the biggest pensions at present.......


  • #69
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    dissed doc wrote: »
    No it hasn't. Public service in Ireland spending is significantly less per person compared to 1st world western-EU countries.

    only because we have no army by comparison and no spending on defense


  • #70
    ligertigon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭ligertigon


    Q:Why are people complaining about PS pay now and not 10 years ago?
    A: Because they were in overpaid private sector jobs at that time with no interest in a ps job,

    Its chicken and egg scenario.

    The ps pay will drop, then an economic recovery, then everyone wants to work for private sector again...then the ps pay increases....then another recession.... etc etc

    Only 1 person mentioned the real elephant in the room


  • #71
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    ligertigon wrote: »
    Q:Why are people complaining about PS pay now and not 10 years ago?
    A: Because they were in overpaid private sector jobs at that time with no interest in a ps job,
    The real answer is that government expenditure has quadrupled in that period and we can't afford it anymore.


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  • #72
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭amacca


    gigino wrote: »

    It was the public sectors job ( government, central bank, regulator etc ) to control the economy. If other people broke the law they should be fined / put in jail. Yet the government cannot do that, can they or did they ?

    They know it was themselves / the public sector which caused the mess     and made the huge money out of the situation. Who is left with the biggest pensions...the government, central bank, regulator etc

    Your narrative above is more than a little twisted

    Every sector in this society shares some of the responsibility and your attempt to hang all of our woes on the public sector shows you to be completely and utterly biased and probably not in touch with the full reality of the situation.

    btw, check out the pension plans of mssrs sheehy, fingleton, quinn etc etc I could go on vs mssrs neary et al.

    I agree with you on you're first bolded statement btw. There should be consequences for wrongdoing (severe consequences for severe wrongdoing including negligence) but I think you would find if such a situation were to occur there would be as many if not more from the private sector being punished.

    There also should also be consequences for continually making overly simplistic and frankly untrue statements blackening one sector of society in favour of another sector.

    It occurs to me that the private sector needs the public sector as much as the public sector needs the private sector and this will be the case for the forseeable future so instead of being divisive why not be constructive?


  • #73
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The real answer is that government expenditure has quadrupled in that period

    On what exactly has government expenditure quadrupled; more public servants, better paid public servants, more on welfare, higher rates of welfare etc. Only when these specifics are presented and discussed can there be any useful contribution, everything else is a rant.
    Amhran Nua, a new political party with new ideas. www.amhrannua.com

    Incidently how many candidates have Amhran Nua in the current election?


  • #74
    Merch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    gigino wrote: »
    Spending on our public sector has doubled between 1999 and 2009 .

    Now I do not think our public services ( police, schools, health system etc ) was all that bad in 1999.

    Time we saved 9 billion a year + got spending back to 2009 levels. The public service and their pensioners have bankrupted the country.

    Cut their pay, + tell them to work, not doss / surf the net / take sickies / time off to cash their non-existant paychecks etc.

    You mean 1999


  • #75
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    ardmacha wrote: »
    On what exactly has government expenditure quadrupled; more public servants, better paid public servants, more on welfare, higher rates of welfare etc. Only when these specifics are presented and discussed can there be any useful contribution, everything else is a rant.



    Incidently how many candidates have Amhran Nua in the current election?
    Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I laid out on the last page how it's going to go, it might not go that way, but if I was a betting man that's where I'd lay my money.


  • #76
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    ardmacha wrote: »
    They were reduced by 14% on average, more than the private sector average reductions.
    This is the kind of garbage statements that make people want someone, anyone, to take a machete to the public sector.

    A quarter of a million private sector workers took a 100% pay cut. Not one single solitary public sector worker was forced onto the dole.


  • #77
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    n97 mini wrote: »
    This is the kind of garbage statements that make people want someone, anyone, to take a machete to the public sector.

    A quarter of a million private sector workers took a 100% pay cut. Not one single solitary public sector worker was forced onto the dole.

    Yeah and you all felt the pain of each and every one of your comrades being laid off??

    1.8 million workers, 300,000 public servants. What about the other 1.5 million private sector workers who are still in their jobs??

    If your private sector and you kept your job you have nothing in common with one that lost theirs.

    Every public servant has taken a cut not every private sector worker has.


  • #78
    paulmr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭paulmr


    n97 mini
    What you have said there is completely mis-informed and untrue. I am a teacher and can name 5 of my non-permanent colleagues that teach in the same school as myself that lost their jobs last September due to the reductions in teacher allocation and due to special needs kids and non national been suddenly deprived of their right to an equal education. Notification of the teacher allocation for next year has just arrived in the school and again it shows that next year we will once again lose up to 4 teachers. While I absolutely sympathise with anyone who has lost their jobs I am sick and tired of the public service being constantly hammered and being made to feel like they are the cause of the problem.:mad:


  • #79
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    And before someone comes back with the "but they weren't permanent". Neither would all of the 250,000 mentioned earlier. But losing your job is bad no matter how secure it was or whether it was public or private.


  • #80
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    sollar wrote: »
    Yeah and you all felt the pain of each and every one of your comrades being laid off??

    1.8 million workers, 300,000 public servants. What about the other 1.5 million private sector workers who are still in their jobs??

    If your private sector and you kept your job you have nothing in common with one that lost theirs.

    Every public servant has taken a cut not every private sector worker has.
    I am one of the those that took a 100% paycut, so STFU.

    In addition I will add that I am now trying to set up an export focussed company in this country and I am fed up to the back teeth of dealing with civil service muppets (Revenue get special honours) who are useless at their jobs and are doing nothing constructive to help -- and yes, they are part of the problem. This is despite the fact that my wife is public sector.

    See this post, from one of the founders of boards.ie. I know how he feels.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69456468&postcount=2


  • #81
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    n97 mini wrote: »
    This is despite the fact that my wife is public sector.

    Is your wife useless at her job?


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  • #82
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    Is your wife useless at her job?

    More garbage argument from someone obviously connected to the PS. I don't see what it has to do with anything.

    She's good at her job, and by her own admission she has it very cushy.


  • #83
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    n97 mini wrote: »
    More garbage argument from someone obviously connected to the PS

    so pretty much similar to what youve been posting, yeah..........
    n97 mini wrote: »
    I don't see what it has to do with anything.

    because im trying to prove there are actually good staff within the system and blankets cuts dont work.


  • #84
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    sollar wrote: »
    Yeah and you all felt the pain of each and every one of your comrades being laid off??

    1.8 million workers, 300,000 public servants. What about the other 1.5 million private sector workers who are still in their jobs??

    If your private sector and you kept your job you have nothing in common with one that lost theirs.

    Every public servant has taken a cut not every private sector worker has.

    The writing is on the wall for the public sector. The country is broke. Ye cannot hide behind the Croke Park agreement forever
    Its about time ye shared the pain of the private sector and come crashing down from your ivory tower ;)


  • #85
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    because im trying to prove there are actually good staff within the system and blankets cuts dont work.
    She is worried about how little work she has to do and how well paid she is for it, and is concerned that it is all going to end it tears. She's not happy to have her pay cut, and would happily do more work than her current 16 hours a week for the same money.


  • #86
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Its about time ye shared the pain of the private sector

    of some of the Private Sector, remember not all private sector workers have taken a pay cut, most are on pay freezes and some have got pay rises, so you simply cant hide behind the "private sector took all the pain" pillar.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    come crashing down from your ivory tower ;)

    so you've no facts or anything usefull to post so you make up some more garbage ;););)


  • #87
    sarumite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    kceire wrote: »
    because im trying to prove there are actually good staff within the system and blankets cuts dont work.

    I know there are good people within the system...a lot of very good people. The problem is there are some very very lazy people who are protected by the union. They poison the reputation for every other PS worker. The only people who can change that are the union i.e PS workers since they are the union. Personally, I would like to see PS workers actively tackle corruption within their rank.


  • #88
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sarumite wrote: »
    I know there are good people within the system...a lot of very good people. The problem is there are some very very lazy people who are protected by the union. They poison the reputation for every other PS worker. The only people who can change that are the union i.e PS workers since they are the union. Personally, I would like to see PS workers actively tackle corruption within their rank.

    the problem with your scenario is that in my dept, all the newer staff including myself are not in a union, but the manager and senior staff would be. imo its going to take a generation of staff to get rid of the old skool union mentality within the PS.


  • #89
    marknjb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭marknjb


    The_Thing wrote: »
    I don't intend to strike this time around.

    I plan on going into work, do nothing apart from reading a paper or two, and get paid for it.
    how long do u think u would do that in the private sector before u got ure p45


  • #90
    sarumite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    kceire wrote: »
    the problem with your scenario is that in my dept, all the newer staff including myself are not in a union, but the manager and senior staff would be. imo its going to take a generation of staff to get rid of the old skool union mentality within the PS.

    However the newer staff also benefit when the Unions make agreements that benefit their members (Benchmarking/CPA). Its perhaps unfair, but they could take a more proactive approach than simply not getting involved.


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  • #91
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    marknjb wrote: »
    how long do u think u would do that in the private sector before u got ure p45

    how long do u think u would do that in the public sector before u got ure p45?
    i know i wouldnt last a day......

    i think that post was tongue in cheek by the way .


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