Womens' attitudes, post recession.

MidgetWrestler · 17-02-2011 3:08am #1

Anyone noticed that a couple of years ago, you'd be out in a bar, and get talking to a girl, and the only things she'd want to know were what you worked at, what car you had and how much €€ you had.. ok that's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but sometimes it felt that way.. and some places seemed to be more.. uppetty - prob not a real word, but hoenever..

Over the last while I noticed that women are more approachable, more interesting, more engaging, and less full of their own ****e. They're more willing to chat about real things that aren't matierial based... but, I've been moving a lot over the past few years, not stayed anywhere longer than 6 months, so looking to not generalise too much.

Any of you guys (and Girls) noticed a shift in perceptions.. has the economic climate brought some people back down to earth, and made the social scene better? Or is it all in my head?

Sakura_chan · 17-02-2011 3:29am

I think the places you go to meet girls can influence the type of girls you meet. I am low-maintenance girl and like to hang out in 'old-man' pubs where you can get a decent pint of Guinness! I have no interest in what a person earns, what car they drive (if any!) etc. Maybe this is a generalisation, but if you go to 'fancy' bars and clubs you tend to meet the type of girls who are looking for a wallet instead of a guy! There are always exceptions but this is what I find! A guy asked me out on a first date to a fancy expensive bar in Dublin and although I got on well with the guy when we met, this put me off and made me worry he might be a bit of a snob! I asked could we change the venue to a low-key pub and we had a great night there- he had been trying to impress me on the advice of some high-flying mates but instead of impressing, it put me off...
Have you been socialising in different places since you noticed the change or are the same old haunts getting a different crowd....?

Pure Sound · 17-02-2011 3:35am

You might be on to something there. A few years ago I was in a club in Galway and basically the conversation between people was basically what you said, the girls were asking questions like "Where to you work" "How much do you earn" "do you have a car" "do you own a house" etc if you didnt tick all the boxes they basically moved onto the next guy. They seemed to be husband hunting measuring guys by what they owned and not what kind of person they were, I was disgusted with it to be honest. I hav'nt come across this kind of greed related chatting up for a while now but that could be to do with me now having a girlfriend and not frequenting that particular club anymore. I hope you are right and we are getting our personalities back.

jugger0 · 17-02-2011 3:38am

We Need Community wrote: »

You might be on to something there. A few years ago I was in a club in Galway and basically the conversation between people was basically what you said, the girls were asking questions like "Where to you work" "How much do you earn" "do you have a car" "do you own a house" etc if you didnt tick all the boxes they basically moved onto the next guy. They seemed to be husband hunting measuring guys by what they owned and not what kind of person they were, I was disgusted with it to be honest. I hav'nt come across this kind of greed related chatting up for a while now but that could be to do with me now having a girlfriend and not frequenting that particular club anymore. I hope you are right and we are getting our personalities back.

Hmmm cps or Halo?

Sakura_chan · 17-02-2011 3:41am

We Need Community wrote: »

You might be on to something there. A few years ago I was in a club in Galway and basically the conversation between people was basically what you said, the girls were asking questions like "Where to you work" "How much do you earn" "do you have a car" "do you own a house" etc if you didnt tick all the boxes they basically moved onto the next guy. They seemed to be husband hunting measuring guys by what they owned and not what kind of person they were, I was disgusted with it to be honest. I hav'nt come across this kind of greed related chatting up for a while now but that could be to do with me now having a girlfriend and not frequenting that particular club anymore. I hope you are right and we are getting our personalities back.

If someone asked me those questions it would make the filtering process pretty simple. I would have zero interest. This kind of greed is an immediate turn off...

myflipflops · 17-02-2011 8:22am

At the height of a boom, the majority of people I would meet seemed to be obsessed with earnings and status symbols and the like. It wasn't a female thing. In fact historically, it's probably much more a male thing as guys play one upmanship games with each other. Generations ago, they might have actually had a physical battle but in Celtic Tiger Ireland, we battled on wealth and the perception of success.

Men are probably way less likely to ask the same question of women because it's not a great way of chatting a woman up. Simple as.

EricPraline · 17-02-2011 9:40am

myflipflops wrote: »

At the height of a boom, the majority of people I would meet seemed to be obsessed with earnings and status symbols and the like. It wasn't a female thing.

Agreed, it certainly didn't only pertain to women. In terms of singles it seemed it was common-place for men to boast about their salary or the number of properties that they owned. Unsurprisingly you don't hear that so much these days.

However, when it came to couples, I often found that the female partner was more competitive and "aspirational" - read, was keener to have a bigger, more expensive wedding/car/house to out-do her friends. Purely anecdotal of course.

myflipflops wrote: »

Men are probably way less likely to ask the same question of women because it's not a great way of chatting a woman up. Simple as.

It's not a great way of chatting a man up either. The kind of questions the OP is talking about would scream "gold digger". Fine if that's what a man is looking for, but perhaps some guys are a little more cautious now that credit isn't flowing so freely.

coffee_cake · 17-02-2011 9:58am

I don't get what's wrong with asking what someone does for a living

you probably spend a third of your day doing whatever it is, so I'm always curious

Of course if they follow up with your car, I don't get that unless they have a motors interest :pac:

dMaN24 · 17-02-2011 10:05am

And also, I see it backfire if a guy asks a girl about how much she earns.

*checking out cute girl in bar from top to bottom, obtain eyecontact..Smile..*
"-So.. How much do you earn?"

:rolleyes:
I'll just grab me coat..

D'Agger · 17-02-2011 10:30am

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't get what's wrong with asking what someone does for a living you probably spend a third of your day doing whatever it is, so I'm always curious

Of course if they follow up with your car, I don't get that unless they have a motors interest :pac:

+1 - there's nothing wrong with finding out what somebody does for a living - it's a massive part of your life...that said I've always found it a bit rude for somebody to come out and say "How much are you earning?"

dMaN24 · 17-02-2011 10:49am

PaulieC wrote: »

+1 - there's nothing wrong with finding out what somebody does for a living - it's a massive part of your life...that said I've always found it a bit rude for somebody to come out and say "How much are you earning?"

But that feels like a more general thing.

If i were to turn up in a -11 Merc or whatever brand new vehicle i am dead sure atleast one would ask.
"-Wow, how can you afford that? How much do you earn?"

Even though anyone could check out the average wages for someone in my business, i feel that my wages are just that. My business and mine alone.

Even though it might just be out of curiousity it would also quickly be put down to jealousy.

D'Agger · 17-02-2011 11:26am

dMaN24 wrote: »

But that feels like a more general thing.

If i were to turn up in a -11 Merc or whatever brand new vehicle i am dead sure atleast one would ask.
"-Wow, how can you afford that? How much do you earn?"

Even though anyone could check out the average wages for someone in my business, i feel that my wages are just that. My business and mine alone.

Even though it might just be out of curiousity it would also quickly be put down to jealousy.

From my experience any time myself or friends have seen somebody we know driving a nice, expensive looking car - I've asked "Do you mind me asking how much it set you back?" - my interest would be in the car, I'd ask for other specs like engine size, miles on the clock and whether the driver got value for money.

My point is that coming out and directly asking somebody what they earn per annum is a bit rude. I've been asked before - "What's the money like in that type of business?" and I've had no problem giving a rough estimate eg. 22-25k - I've given a strong indication of where I am financially without having to give an exact amount.

I just think when it comes to asking somebody about their personal finances - and that's what they are: Personal, it's about being discreet and asking in a subtle way

MidgetWrestler · 17-02-2011 11:42am

Sakura_chan wrote: »

Have you been socialising in different places since you noticed the change or are the same old haunts getting a different crowd....?

Going to the same type of place, but in different towns.. not posh at all, the normal late bar type of place.

We Need Community wrote: »

You might be on to something there ..... if you didnt tick all the boxes they basically moved onto the next guy. They seemed to be husband hunting measuring guys by what they owned and not what kind of person they were, I was disgusted with it to be honest..

That's pretty much how I perceived it, was disgusting. And funny about Galway, that's where I noticed it more than anywhere else, every time I went to Galway, maybe 2 or 3 times a year, it wouldn't matter if it were the Quays or the Kings Head or the Front door.. was always the same

myflipflops wrote: »

...it's probably much more a male thing as guys play one upmanship games with each other.

Hadn't thought of it that way, I'm sure some guys would be looking for someone to ask that question, to give them the opening to announce it, OH Yeah, I'm in FINANCE.. yeah, yea, the Beemer, yea it's new... O - M - G loike it was only 65 grand, a bargain yea - ponces

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't get what's wrong with asking what someone does for a living

Nothing wrong with it at all, but when you've just met someone, you'd think finding out their name, or where they come from, or what the special occasion is, or who's getting married would come first. I mean, it's meant to be about liking the person.

Haven't come across it in a while now, so going to presume that it's not as widespread as it used to be.. either that, or they've become less obvious about it

--Kaiser-- · 17-02-2011 12:05pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't get what's wrong with asking what someone does for a living you probably spend a third of your day doing whatever it is, so I'm always curious

Of course if they follow up with your car, I don't get that unless they have a motors interest :pac:

Asking what you do for a living isn't an issue. Asking how much you earn is something else entirely. I've never been asked that before but if I was I'd immediately file the girl under 'H' for Hoochie

G86 · 17-02-2011 1:25pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Asking what you do for a living isn't an issue. Asking how much you earn is something else entirely.

+1. I honestly don't see why it would have anything to do with your attraction to someone. I know some women (mostly 30yrs+) who wouldn't even consider dating a guy who wasn't on the same income level. One in particular, refused to consider a relationship with a guy she met once she found out he was a student. I don't understand that way of thinking at all - it's ridiculous. I guess it all boils down to what makes your world go around - love or money.

stupidusername · 17-02-2011 1:33pm

I have no interest in what a person earns, and wouldn't even consider this a factor in whether or not I would be with them. though I may have inadvertently asked something like these questions as part of conversation (not the money thing though) and I hope that's not the way I came off.

However, as much as we like to think we're all better than animals, in many many ways we're very similar. the idea behind wanting a rich partner is so that they can provide for you, and you don't have to worry about money, and in our big human world where money gets you everything else it's not that mad an idea that this is something that interests women.

To clarify, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it may be quite natural. and of course in the non-nature kind of way I agree that it's everything else that's important.

magneticimpulse · 17-02-2011 3:27pm

I think men have to potential to be equally rude. All they ask is what do you do and where are you from? Can they not think of something original to come up with? (edit: only a few guys was really rude about this to me...especially when i mention where i come from and they are extremely snobby about that unfortunately)

Not to mention men who paint women with the same brush, especially if they take a dislike to women in certain cities. I think if men went out there with a more positive attitude the world wouldnt see so gloom. They are obviously concentrating on the negative aspects and blowing it out of proportion. If they stopped to think about the good times and times they really enjoyed themselves, maybe the negative grey cloud above their head would go away.

If they wind women up the wrong way, of course its going to hit them smack in the face. If they learned to go out there, put everything they have encountered in the past behind them and approached women postively I bet they would have a different response.

Maybe they need to address some negative encounters in his life and put that behind them. If men really made an effort to talk to these women they so much hate now, they might even find those women he hated do have a nice side to them. They wouldnt clash with them, and the world would be a better place. They might even find he can get on with these sorts of women. If you go against the grain, you will always end up bashing your head against the wall. If you go about with a chip on your shoulder, the chip is only going to get bigger.

I suggest men make up with these sorts of women, you might even surprise at how everything starts to look like a rainbow in the end!! It doesnt mean you have to accept these sort of womens attitude, not does it mean your giving into their behaviour, but to accept that they are different. Im not saying by any means you have to date or even marry these women...but just to have positive conversation with them...if you spoke to them for more then 10 mins...they might drop down their wall and you might even shock yourself and drop your guard down.

The world would be a boring place if everybody was carbon copies of each other. Variety is the spice of life. People can make mistakes on nights out, say the wrong things. But if they are never given a chance to shine, then how will they ever impress you? How will they ever have a chance to show that they do have a heart and loving side? If you constantly insist on seeing the negative, you will only see the negative!!!

Be positive!! Put negativity behind!! Dont be so stubborn!! Remember if you keep swimming up stream, you will never get anywhere. Just go with the flow. Things can change, things can have a positive outcome...you just need to be open to that change and I think you can be.

Women are still the same species in Ireland as they were 5 years ago.

Otis Driftwood · 17-02-2011 3:39pm

magneticimpulse you post is so chock full of generalisations I dont even know where to begin so what I will say is please read our charter.You have been pulled up on for making massive generalisations before so consider this a final warning.

Insulting the OP is also not no on,nor is making alot of assumptions about him.

Kindly rein it in when posting here in future,thanks.

magneticimpulse · 17-02-2011 3:44pm

I wasnt insulting the OP...the OP had made a huge generalisation about women on nights out. That women were stuck up. It might have seem as an insult towards OP, but it certainly was not my intention. I dont intend to make generalisations about people, i just express my opinions...and in writing, they certainly seem to ruffle a few feathers. I can assure you in person, it would not come across that way. I do have to admit when I express myself online, it can be taken up the wrong way by others.

I was merely suggesting that if people thought that way in general, of course it will seem negative. Women are still the same now as they were 5 years ago.

So this thread in itself is a huge generalisation about women and their attitudes towards men.

Im just saying people should think positive when approaching women and they will get positive feedback. That is not an insult!

tbh · 17-02-2011 4:07pm

MidgetWrestler wrote: »

Anyone noticed that a couple of years ago, you'd be out in a bar, and get talking to a girl, and the only things she'd want to know were what you worked at, what car you had and how much €€ you had..

nope.

magneticimpulse wrote: »

. All they ask is what do you do and where are you from?

that's all we do is it? must have missed that memo.

Pure Sound · 17-02-2011 4:10pm

jugger0 wrote: »

Hmmm cps or Halo?

Ha Ha it was Halo

Sakura_chan wrote: »

If someone asked me those questions it would make the filtering process pretty simple. I would have zero interest. This kind of greed is an immediate turn off...

It was easy for me to filter it out but the problem was that the men were the same, boasting about careers, cars etc. Just hearing that people were like this is what disgusted me. Women like this are open for liars really and men like that are open to money grabbers. They deserve each other really :pac:

MidgetWrestler wrote: »

That's pretty much how I perceived it, was disgusting. And funny about Galway, that's where I noticed it more than anywhere else, every time I went to Galway, maybe 2 or 3 times a year, it wouldn't matter if it were the Quays or the Kings Head or the Front door.. was always the same

They are the type of pubs in Galway that I would expect that type of behaviour, pretentious people will be found there along with the good type

magneticimpulse wrote: »

I think men are equally rude....

I agree with you on the staying positive thing but not with other stuff, your post contradicts itself you say to go with the grain but you also talk about everyone being the same would make things boring, surely going with the grain would make everyone the same.

I also don't think that we should embrace the people that we disagree with. Greed in my opinion is the cause of everything that is wrong with the world and these people are representing it on a local scale. I could never agree with these kinds of actions as it is so wrong on so many levels

magneticimpulse · 17-02-2011 4:15pm

^ Well i actually stir clear of those questions and lead the conversation in another direction.

One time I think about 2007, I met these lads and they were auctioners. This guy kept going on about how come someone my own age did not own a house. Well I was trying to explain that it would only result in a bubble (which we know happened). He was totally on his high horse about what he thought was a fantastic job to be in and looked down on me because of what I do and that i did not own enough materialistic things. After meeting him, I knew from that moment on, its not possible for all men to be like him.

[edit: i actually now recall the remainder of 2007...i remember a few occassions, where i said i was an air hostess or nurse from waterford or clare and the reaction i got from guys was completely different as oppose to when i told them my real occupation and where im from. i stopped this however as i do have a mouthy friend who blurts out the worse things in front of potential boyfriends...of course she shouted at the top of her voice where im really from. one time on a date, she kept bringing up this other guy i have absolute no interest in...so now i am just me(not good to lie), but it was fun the complete opposite reaction i got when guys thought i was a nurse from waterford.]

I also find when I say where I am originally from I get men slagging me off. But I worked really hard in life to get to make something out of my life. I dont let that get to me thou, because I know I am a person worth talking to and getting to know. Its their loss really.

So when a guy chats me up, its usually more light hearted and witty. The moment I hear "where you from...what do you do?"....I discuss something else. I understand its a ice breaker, and a bit more sensible then a cheesy chat up lines. I understand its not easy for guys to approach women (well from what a read on here, dont want to be making generalisations again). I tend to answer the where Im from bit...again i know it will always result in a negative feedback, but I dont care anymore, its something im not ashamed off. It seems like guys are obsessed about where you come from. Equally when my friends say where they come from (opposite type of place to mine)...guys tell them that they are snobby!! Just because they happen to be from a certain place. I think men are too quick to form judgements is all im saying. I dont see what the point of asking the question is...if your from a "bad" place you get negative feedback, if your from a "good" place you get negative feedback. Its just so ridculous. I definitely dont feel anything personal about it now, having seen my friends getting slagged off just because they come from whats seen as a "nice" place.

Ive actually had a really positive response to meeting guys in pubs since then. Even now when they make a comment about where i am from, i dont make a big deal out of it. I just brush past that. If they have a hang up about it, i say, well ive done such and such with my life and worked hard to get out of that place i came from, but im certainly not ashame to come from there. Thats usually the end of that topic and we normally move onto something else.

No when i said going against the grain, i meant if you insist on something is negative it will only have a negative outcome. Im not saying that you should embrace their attitudes. But if people did talk to people, they might see they have a nice side. I like to think majority of people have a nice side and we cannot judge them just because of the types of pubs they hang out in or what clothes they wear. You cannot really judge people until you chat to them. At the end of the day, money does not bring anyone happiness. Even if people have materialistic things, does not mean they are horrible people? Does not mean that they are selfish or vain. You just cannot judge people until you have spoken to them for some length of time. Also women on nights out have prob had a few drinks (again dont want to be general, but if your in a pub there is a chance)...and they might not be the same as if they are in an office during the week.

Equally the same can be said for men. They might have had a few drinks too many and come off really rude or had a really stressful day at work. But another day, they might be a totally different person.

Either way its difficult to put any sort of judgement on people just in the pub/late night bar scene. I just wish Irish guys would give Irish women a break, as if dating is not difficult enough as it is, but forming quick judgements (personal experience on where im from and career) is not good. I just found dating in England so much easier from my own personal experience, guys were so much more open and i could say where im from and they never heard of it...so never got negative feedback. I really want to date an Irish guy, but it is so god damn hard when they are quick to have negative judgements. (i do still keep an open mind despite this and be positive, and continue the search of course...you have to keep trying and looking)

donfers · 17-02-2011 7:01pm

stupidusername wrote: »

I have no interest in what a person earns, and wouldn't even consider this a factor in whether or not I would be with them. though I may have inadvertently asked something like these questions as part of conversation (not the money thing though) and I hope that's not the way I came off.

However, as much as we like to think we're all better than animals, in many many ways we're very similar. the idea behind wanting a rich partner is so that they can provide for you, and you don't have to worry about money, and in our big human world where money gets you everything else it's not that mad an idea that this is something that interests women.

To clarify, I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it may be quite natural. and of course in the non-nature kind of way I agree that it's everything else that's important.

if your boyfriend used that type of rationale to explain his cheating i wonder would you write it off as a "c'est la vie" indiscretion

we can look for all the excuses in the world to justify what we do but horrible behaviour is horrible behaviour no matter how you want to dress it up

donfers · 17-02-2011 7:10pm

magneticimpulse wrote: »

^ Well i actually stir clear of those questions and lead the conversation in another direction.

One time I think about 2007, I met these lads and they were auctioners. This guy kept going on about how come someone my own age did not own a house. Well I was trying to explain that it would only result in a bubble (which we know happened). He was totally on his high horse about what he thought was a fantastic job to be in and looked down on me because of what I do and that i did not own enough materialistic things. After meeting him, I knew from that moment on, its not possible for all men to be like him.

[edit: i actually now recall the remainder of 2007...i remember a few occassions, where i said i was an air hostess or nurse from waterford or clare and the reaction i got from guys was completely different as oppose to when i told them my real occupation and where im from. i stopped this however as i do have a mouthy friend who blurts out the worse things in front of potential boyfriends...of course she shouted at the top of her voice where im really from. one time on a date, she kept bringing up this other guy i have absolute no interest in...so now i am just me(not good to lie), but it was fun the complete opposite reaction i got when guys thought i was a nurse from waterford.]

I also find when I say where I am originally from I get men slagging me off. But I worked really hard in life to get to make something out of my life. I dont let that get to me thou, because I know I am a person worth talking to and getting to know. Its their loss really.

So when a guy chats me up, its usually more light hearted and witty. The moment I hear "where you from...what do you do?"....I discuss something else. I understand its a ice breaker, and a bit more sensible then a cheesy chat up lines. I understand its not easy for guys to approach women (well from what a read on here, dont want to be making generalisations again). I tend to answer the where Im from bit...again i know it will always result in a negative feedback, but I dont care anymore, its something im not ashamed off. It seems like guys are obsessed about where you come from. Equally when my friends say where they come from (opposite type of place to mine)...guys tell them that they are snobby!! Just because they happen to be from a certain place. I think men are too quick to form judgements is all im saying. I dont see what the point of asking the question is...if your from a "bad" place you get negative feedback, if your from a "good" place you get negative feedback. Its just so ridculous. I definitely dont feel anything personal about it now, having seen my friends getting slagged off just because they come from whats seen as a "nice" place.

Ive actually had a really positive response to meeting guys in pubs since then. Even now when they make a comment about where i am from, i dont make a big deal out of it. I just brush past that. If they have a hang up about it, i say, well ive done such and such with my life and worked hard to get out of that place i came from, but im certainly not ashame to come from there. Thats usually the end of that topic and we normally move onto something else.

No when i said going against the grain, i meant if you insist on something is negative it will only have a negative outcome. Im not saying that you should embrace their attitudes. But if people did talk to people, they might see they have a nice side. I like to think majority of people have a nice side and we cannot judge them just because of the types of pubs they hang out in or what clothes they wear. You cannot really judge people until you chat to them. At the end of the day, money does not bring anyone happiness. Even if people have materialistic things, does not mean they are horrible people? Does not mean that they are selfish or vain. You just cannot judge people until you have spoken to them for some length of time. Also women on nights out have prob had a few drinks (again dont want to be general, but if your in a pub there is a chance)...and they might not be the same as if they are in an office during the week.

Equally the same can be said for men. They might have had a few drinks too many and come off really rude or had a really stressful day at work. But another day, they might be a totally different person.

Either way its difficult to put any sort of judgement on people just in the pub/late night bar scene. I just wish Irish guys would give Irish women a break, as if dating is not difficult enough as it is, but forming quick judgements (personal experience on where im from and career) is not good. I just found dating in England so much easier from my own personal experience, guys were so much more open and i could say where im from and they never heard of it...so never got negative feedback. I really want to date an Irish guy, but it is so god damn hard when they are quick to have negative judgements. (i do still keep an open mind despite this and be positive, and continue the search of course...you have to keep trying and looking)

as a man i can't really respond to that unless you tell me where you're from?

forget personality and breast size and all that malarkey, where girls are from is all we guys talk about right now

stupidusername · 17-02-2011 7:50pm

donfers wrote: »

if your boyfriend used that type of rationale to explain his cheating i wonder would you write it off as a "c'est la vie" indiscretion

we can look for all the excuses in the world to justify what we do but horrible behaviour is horrible behaviour no matter how you want to dress it up

what are you talking about? I was merely saying that there is a possible explanation for why this may be of interest to women. As I already said I'm not saying it's right, it's just that it's kinda natural. instinct pretty much. And many animals don't live monogamously, so you can't compare humans to animals in that respect as humans expect to live monogamously unless otherwise discussed.

donfers · 17-02-2011 8:23pm

stupidusername wrote: »

what are you talking about? I was merely saying that there is a possible explanation for why this may be of interest to women. As I already said I'm not saying it's right, it's just that it's kinda natural. instinct pretty much. And many animals don't live monogamously, so you can't compare humans to animals in that respect as humans expect to live monogamously unless otherwise discussed.

so we can't compare humans to animals with regard to the animal instinct of spreading ones seed yet we can compare humans to animals when it comes to the female expecting security from the male

oh and the reaosn for this is that humans are "expected" to live monogamously unlike animals but when it comes to women asking guys how much they earn and what car they drive we can do this because the female squirrels won't let the male squirrels bang them unless they have seen how many nuts they have stored away or perhaps Mrs. blackbird won't put out for mr. blackbird unless the nest is laden in the finest pine wood

it's an interesting viewpoint, I am particularly impressed by your selective use of evolutionary theory

stupidusername · 17-02-2011 8:29pm

donfers wrote: »

so we can't compare humans to animals with regard to the animal instinct of spreading ones seed yet we can compare humans to animals when it comes to the female expecting security from the male

oh and the reaosn for this is that humans are "expected" to live monogamously unlike animals but when it comes to women asking guys how much they earn and what car they drive we can do this because the female squirrels won't let the male squirrels bang them unless they have seen how many nuts they have stored away or perhaps Mrs. blackbird won't put out for mr. blackbird unless the nest is laden in the finest pine wood

it's an interesting viewpoint, I am particularly impressed by your selective use of evolutionary theory

Will you read what I wrote properly please. if you still don't understand what I'm saying then I'm not going to post any more replies to this.

I'm not being selective about evolutionary theories i'm saying all of it applies here. there's still ongoing debate as to whether or not humans should be monogamous but generally it is accepted that they are. so i'm not being selective i'm saying for some animals monogamy is expected, others it's not.

Rabble Rabble · 17-02-2011 8:47pm

I find it a bit off when a woman is being honest - as stupidusername is here - that she is shouted down. There is an animal nature to humans. I used to be on dating sites and this is what I noticed..

1) The taller the woman the more she wanted a taller guy. Her tallness did not make up for the guy. This was a desire to be "protected" sublimated to a conscious sexual urge - an attraction to tall people.
2) The richer the woman, or the better her job the more likely she was to mention the financial circumstances of her purported partner. As in "I have a good job, so should you".

So, during the boom the standards were raised. Thas all.

magneticimpulse · 17-02-2011 9:46pm

^ Yep at the end of the day...we are all animals like it or not. We definitely evolved from them and therefore Darwins laws of attraction and survival of the fittest all come into play. Its true, its irrespective of the dead celtic tiger.

I cannot dispute that fact. There will be exceptions in the gene pool of course, like tall woman going with short guy, same sex etc. Its not a clear cut a theory. As far as reproduction goes, women do seek a partner who looks attractive, kind and has potential to be a caring father and vice versa.

Logical Fallacy · 17-02-2011 10:11pm

magneticimpulse wrote: »

^ Yep at the end of the day...we are all animals like it or not. We definitely evolved from them and therefore Darwins laws of attraction and survival of the fittest all come into play. Its true, its irrespective of the dead celtic tiger.

Hmmm...you could easily argue that man having developed to the point of being able to study and understand the mechanism of nature that was originally documented by the likes of Darwin and Wallace et al means, in effect, it no longer applies.

People love to mention the old biology of everything but that simple fact is that even since Darwin first opened his notebook society and the world we live in is a vastly different place. Go back a few evolution points and the original factors that mates would have looked for in each other is largely moot.

Hell, i would go so far as to say you could rearrange Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but that's just me.

Cicero · 17-02-2011 10:22pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Hmmm...you could easily argue that man having developed to the point of being able to study and understand the mechanism of nature that was originally documented by the likes of Darwin and Wallace et al means, in effect, it no longer applies.

not sure it would be that easy....

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

People love to mention the old biology of everything but that simple fact is that even since Darwin first opened his notebook society and the world we live in is a vastly different place. Go back a few evolution points and the original factors that mates would have looked for in each other is largely moot.

I don't believe it is...just because we have TV's, Cars, electricity etc, doesn't mean we have progressed much further either biologically or socially in the last few centuries..we still organise ourselves mostly, as a family unit, we still react to hormones, pheromones, body shape and all of the other "animal" instincts....a significant % of the worlds population are living in poverty...and those who aren't are merely 2-3 wage packets away from homelessness...

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Hell, i would go so far as to say you could rearrange Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but that's just me.

It would be quite difficult achieving self-actualization while standing naked, hungry and cold at the side of the road.....

Womens' attitudes, post recession.

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