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Robert Fisk and his hatred of America

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Comments

  • #32
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Any criticism of the US is considered "hate" or anti-American. This doesn't happen with other countries except perhaps Israel.


  • #33
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sticky_Fingers wrote: »
    Yeah, most of their aid goes to Israel:
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362402,00.html

    Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.


  • #34
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,672 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    TheRevolution wrote: »
    Robert Fisk doesn't hate America he just disagrees with a lot of their foreign policy. Hes equally critical of Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah (which is quite brave of him considering he lives in Beirut), Syria and Iran

    He lives in Dublin. Not in Beirut.
    He wrote a book, qualifies for tax relief and is thus an Irish 'resident'.

    Far too many people take what he and the likes of Pilger write as gospel. They can be wrong from time to time also.

    For example, moaning about sanctions on Iraq not working and Saddam flourishing, then their effects on normal everyday citizens but not on Saddam then when Iraq is invaded, they moan about the invasion (allegedly of course) to remove him.
    Never mind complaining that the ancient Mesopotamian artifact he was taking over the border after the invasion was taken from him by a Marine. What was he doing with it in the first place?

    Read objectively. Not as de facto on anything Middle East.


  • #35
    Sticky_Fingers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    prinz wrote: »
    Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.
    Sorry but I don't care if the money is spent on bullets or bandaids for "friendly" nations, an obscene amount of US foreign aid is spent shoring up its allies. I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

    Breakdown of where and what aid the US sends overseas for the past few years:
    http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm


  • #36
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Everything I can remember reading from this man has been in condemnation of America. I basically think the man hates America because they are the most powerful nation in the world so he spins his articles against America.

    Thoughts on this?

    Criticise American war crimes and ruthless corporate-driven foreign policy = You're "anti-American"

    Criticise Israeli oppression and persecution of Palestinians = You're an "anti-Semite"

    Criticise British injustices in Ireland = You're a "shinner" of a "fenian bastard"

    :rolleyes:


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  • #37
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    TheRevolution wrote: »
    It would be like the British government during the the 70s and 80s collaborating to detonate a carbomb in Dublin deliberately targetting civillians because of the actions of the IRA...........oh wait.

    Or the Irish government providing money and weapons to the IRA in the last 1960s to murder innocent cilvilians in what was then and still is part of the United Kingdom...........oh wait.


  • #38
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Sticky_Fingers wrote: »
    I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

    Again you have to square that off against the US being the single biggest donor nation (i.e. government spending) in the world.

    Recently pushed into second place in the last few years by the combined efforts of the European Union IIRC.

    That "breakdown" is partisan rubbish tbh.


  • #39
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Criticise American war crimes and ruthless corporate-driven foreign policy = You're "anti-American"

    No, that only happens if you refuse to also give credit where it is due, which many people make a habit of doing.


  • #40
    TheRevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 452 ✭✭TheRevolution


    JustinDee wrote: »
    He lives in Dublin. Not in Beirut.
    He wrote a book, qualifies for tax relief and is thus an Irish 'resident'.

    He primarily lives in Beirut actually.


  • #41
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    It's very rare that anybody who disagrees with Fisk's analysis actually explains why, without resorting to the usual lazy, ad-hominem bollocks about anti-Americanism. He must be doing something right.


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  • #42
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    prinz wrote: »
    Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.

    The US is the stingiest donor of foreign aid. Try looking at their figures as a proportion of their GDP and you'll soon see how little they give. Norway is up at the top as one of the most generous nations. Singing the praises of the amount the US donates is akin to patting Bill Gates on the back for giving a tenner to charity while the unemployed widow-mother of three in the council flat only gave a fiver.


  • #43
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    jackiebaron wrote: »
    The US is the stingiest donor of foreign aid. Try looking at their figures as a proportion of their GDP and you'll soon see how little they give. Norway is up at the top as one of the most generous nations. Singing the praises of the amount the US donates is akin to patting Bill Gates on the back for giving a tenner to charity while the unemployed widow-mother of three in the council flat only gave a fiver.

    Oh right, so now the American govt does give aid, just not enough (apparently). :rolleyes:


  • #44
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    Yeah, it's bullshit.

    He no more hates America than anyone else that objectively observes the activities of the American government and it's foreign policies.

    Would you care to provide some evidence of this 'hatred,' or will you just rely on groundless accusations?

    Of course there are reasons to be critical of the American Government (like most governments) but I feel Robert Fisk wants to find reasons to be critical. I think he is biased against America. I can't remember him commenting on the postive things the American Government has done for the world.


  • #45
    Sticky_Fingers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    prinz wrote: »
    Oh right, so now the American govt does give aid, just not enough (apparently). :rolleyes:
    lets have a look see what much of this foreign aid is buying shall we (form American companies by the way:rolleyes:)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI



    What a bunch of upstanding humanitarians they are


  • #46
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Of course there are reasons to be critical of the American Government (like most governments) but I feel Robert Fisk wants to find reasons to be critical. I think he is biased against America. I can't remember him commenting on the postive things the American Government has done for the world.

    So it's not that there are legitimate reasons to be critical of the US, it's just that he actually writes about them?

    Never mind all the hacks that spew mindless spin about American Foreign policy, lets roundly condemn one of the few journos who actually has the balls to comment accurately on it.


  • #47
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Sticky_Fingers wrote: »
    Sorry but I don't care if the money is spent on bullets or bandaids for "friendly" nations, an obscene amount of US foreign aid is spent shoring up its allies. I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

    Breakdown of where and what aid the US sends overseas for the past few years:
    http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

    Of Course they are going to help out their allies. It's their primary responsiblity to look out for their own country.


  • #48
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Groundless my bollox.

    The guy obviously reads his articles like I do, and has come to the same conclusion.

    What do you people want, The US to ignore the freeworld and just look after itself.

    Get a grip man.

    Currently theres protests for freedom in Bahrain, Yemen, Libya and Iran. The only one the US seems to be supporting are the ones in Iran. So yes, the US does look after itself. Get back to logging your bowel movements.


  • #49
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    karma_ wrote: »
    So it's not that there are legitimate reasons to be critical of the US, it's just that he actually writes about them?

    Never mind all the hacks that spew mindless spin about American Foreign policy, lets roundly condemn one of the few journos who actually has the balls to comment accurately on it.

    The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. I don't really think it takes balls to write an article.


  • #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. ......

    A few examples would be helpful.....


  • #51
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. I don't really think it takes balls to write an article.

    Go on then, show us something to back up your nonsense claim. Otherwise I call bullshít.


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  • #52
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Nodin wrote: »
    Currently theres protests for freedom in Bahrain, Yemen, Libya and Iran. The only one the US seems to be supporting are the ones in Iran. So yes, the US does look after itself. Get back to logging your bowel movements.

    They look after themelves just like you look after yourself. They aren't a charity. Would you vote in a government that doesn't look after itself.


  • #53
    RGDATA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭RGDATA!


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Everything I can remember reading from this man has been in condemnation of America. I basically think the man hates America because they are the most powerful nation in the world so he spins his articles against America.

    Thoughts on this?

    seems like an extremely simplistic viewpoint you have


  • #54
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    prinz wrote: »
    No, that only happens if you refuse to also give credit where it is due, which many people make a habit of doing.

    Don't give me this "credit where credit is due" crap. That's like saying "Your honour, I would like to bring it to the court's attention the number of times my client DIDN'T get behind the wheel drunk and plough into a group of pedestrians".

    American foreign transgressions far outweigh their benevolent actions and only a fool would deny it. It's like congratulating a habitual criminal for putting his litter in the trash can.


  • #55
    Sticky_Fingers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    They look after themelves just like you look after yourself. They aren't a charity. Would you vote in a government that doesn't look after itself.
    And thus Robert Fisk has every right to condemn them over their foreign policy since it only serves to undermine nations who are deemed unfriendly to US interests.


  • #56
    MajorMax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭MajorMax


    PandyAndy wrote: »
    I have 'The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East' at home. Never got around to reading it. Must do so once I finish the Wheel of Time... in a few years.

    Good luck with that. I've been reading the WoT since 1993 and the muppet had the cheek to shuffle off! This Sanderson guy isn't nearly as good but at this stage I JUST WANT IT TO END!


  • #57
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    karma_ wrote: »
    Go on then, show us something to back up your nonsense claim. Otherwise I call bullshít.

    Next time I read some of his nonsense I'll make a note and let you know.


  • #58
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    prinz wrote: »
    Oh right, so now the American govt does give aid, just not enough (apparently). :rolleyes:

    I never said they didn't give any aid. You're the one who's babbling how great they are because they donate a larger sum. I merely pointed out that the percentage they donate is one of the smallest.

    You're the one banging about "credit where credit is due" yet you skew your praise to those who sacrifice the least and ignore those who sacrifice so much more albeit with smaller results.

    That says a lot.


  • #59
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Next time I read some of his nonsense I'll make a note and let you know.

    Ah yes, the classic dodge.

    I'll expect not to hear from you then so.


  • #60
    Sticky_Fingers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Next time I read some of his nonsense I'll make a note and let you know.
    Here's a link to some of his articles for when you have the time. Do let us know if you find any nonsense or parts that you find particularity objectionable.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/


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  • #61
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    They look after themelves just like you look after yourself. .

    The US constantly harps on about 'Freedom' and 'Democracy' (though this current admin less than the last, thank fuck). However, their actions have - certainly since WWII - undermined and subverted same time and time again. This makes them hypocrites and an active evil, often as bad as their opposite numbers.

    Now, you were saying that
    The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense.

    ..a few examples please. As you believe theres a lot of it, you shouldn't have too much problem finding some.


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