Robert Fisk and his hatred of America

Scanlas The 2nd

Everything I can remember reading from this man has been in condemnation of America. I basically think the man hates America because they are the most powerful nation in the world so he spins his articles against America.

Thoughts on this?

MagicMarker

Fúck yeah!!

orourkeda

Maybe he does but what he says is usually correct

thebigbiffo

he's only human....right?

Jimmy the Wheel

He's not a fan of succesive American administrations, nor their foreign policies, might be a little more accurate to say.

shampon

I'm sure he just hates the Americans failure to change anything despite their huge influence.

landsleaving

USA! USA! USA!

PandyAndy

I have 'The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East' at home. Never got around to reading it. Must do so once I finish the Wheel of Time... in a few years.

Sanjuro

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Everything I can remember reading from this man has been in condemnation of America. I basically think the man hates America because they are the most powerful nation in the world so he spins his articles against America.

Thoughts on this?

Yeah, it's bullshit.

He no more hates America than anyone else that objectively observes the activities of the American government and it's foreign policies.

Would you care to provide some evidence of this 'hatred,' or will you just rely on groundless accusations?

snubbleste

One of the most respected journalists in the world.

mike65

He doesn't hate the USA, only its foreign policies.

ejmaztec

shampon wrote: »

I'm sure he just hates the Americans failure to change anything despite their huge influence bombs.

fyp

Sticky_Fingers

Well from his perspective as a journalist who primarily concerns himself with the Middle East perhaps his condemnations and criticisms are justified considering the many disastrous policies followed by successive US administrations over the years.

thebigbiffo

do you know any other 'western' journalists with an apartment in Beirut?

'nuff said imo

biko

He'd fit right in here in AH so.

wes

I see no evidence of this hatred personally. Also, he hardly just condemns the US, a lot of the ME autocratic regimes, are also often on the recieving end as well.

RichieC

boohoo poor america, will they ever catch a break :C

Badgermonkey

Hang on now, hate is an emotive word.

He is highly critical of American and Israeli policy and of the influence the Likud lobby exerts on Capitol hill.

The corruption, violence and lack of human rights in the Arab states has also been a consistent theme in his writing, lest that be forgotten.

Chimichangas

PandyAndy wrote: »

I have 'The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East' at home. Never got around to reading it. Must do so once I finish the Wheel of Time... in a few years.

Its a tough but very interesting read! at tleast up until p.800...i didnt get round to finishing it yet.:o

prinz

Robert Fisk loves Robert Fisk and objects to anything outside of Robert Fisk's view of the world. I feel he's far more interested in provoking a reaction than any sort of attempt to actually change people's opinions. He'll talk non-stop about the evils of 'the west' and then tack-on a token aside in relation to the other side which really isn't good enough.

(You'll rarely if ever hear him say anything positive about the US.)

TheRevolution

Robert Fisk doesn't hate America he just disagrees with a lot of their foreign policy. Hes equally critical of Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah (which is quite brave of him considering he lives in Beirut), Syria and Iran.
Robert Fisk calls it as he sees it. A lot of the time he may focus on America and Israel but thats only because they are generally at the centre of everything.

I do find it quite funny how Israel defend their indiscriminate attacks on Gaza by arguing that Gazan terrorists are firing rockets indiscriminatly at Israeli villages - I mean one group is a suicide bombing terrorist organization and the other is a supposedly westernized, developed nation. It's a pretty pathetic argument to be honest and Robert Fisk continuously brings it up. It would be like the British government during the the 70s and 80s collaborating to detonate a carbomb in Dublin deliberately targetting civillians because of the actions of the IRA...........oh wait.

Lumen

Robert Fisk is consistent. When you see the byline, you know exactly what you're going to get.

Chimichangas

Yeah I dont think he hates America at all!
just like a lot of people he has little time for mixed messages and untruths or ommissions from the US government that unfortunately comes across as using the pretense of standing up for freedom and democracy, to serve its own needs...

e.g. the coalition encouraged the marsh arabs to rise up after 1st Iraq war and then abandoned them to be massacred.
e.g. was slow to encourage the popular movements in Tunis and Egypt, until outcome seemed inevitable
e.g. and then tells countries not to be hypocritical by putting down democracy protests with violence, but to allow freedom of expression

I look forward to seeing the reaction to what is now going on in Bahrain now from both Fisk, and the US government, considering the US Naval fleet for gulf is stationed there..

FlutterinBantam

Sanjuro wrote: »

Yeah, it's bullshit.

He no more hates America than anyone else that objectively observes the activities of the American government and it's foreign policies.

Would you care to provide some evidence of this 'hatred,' or will you just rely on groundless accusations?

Groundless my bollox.

The guy obviously reads his articles like I do, and has come to the same conclusion.

What do you people want, The US to ignore the freeworld and just look after itself.

Get a grip man.

Sticky_Fingers

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Groundless my bollox.

The guy obviously reads his articles like I do, and has come to the same conclusion.

What do you people want, The US to ignore the freeworld and just look after itself.

Get a grip man.

Yes please, it's not really a free world if you have big brother looking over your shoulder and gently prodding you to take their preferred course of action. They really don't care about spreading the bright light of Western democracy anyway, they just look after themselves.

ejmaztec

thebigbiffo wrote: »

do you know any other 'western' journalists with an apartment in Beirut?

'nuff said imo

There were a few in the 80s living rent-free in Beirut apartments, but they weren't allowed to leave them until the ransom monies were handed over.:eek:

liah

It's not the job of the U.S. to police politics in other countries, end of.

Sanjuro

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Groundless my bollox.

The guy obviously reads his articles like I do, and has come to the same conclusion.

What do you people want, The US to ignore the freeworld and just look after itself.

Get a grip man.

I read his articles myself, and there's a massive difference between hatred and objective analysis. There's not a shred of evidence that points to Fisk hating America in anything he writes. That use of that type of language, especially the word hate is used by extremists and people who cant be bothered to try and offer a reasonable argument.

The US is looking after itself all right. All it cares about is it's own self-interests. The whole notion of 'spreading democracy' is both groundless and ludicrous. But they'll go ahead an spread their brand of democracy where ever it's interests are served. You don't ever see them rushing to offer assistance when genuine democracy pops up. And that, correctly, is a big part of Fisk's argument.

El Siglo

Op, go read; "The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East" by Fisk, and see what you think of him then. This is a retarded thread.

prinz

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

They really don't care about spreading the bright light of Western democracy anyway, they just look after themselves.

As well as being the world's primary aid donor.

Sticky_Fingers

prinz wrote: »

As well as being the world's primary aid donor.

Yeah, most of their aid goes to Israel:

*Edit* Correction Israel is the biggest recipient, it does not get the majority of US foreign aid

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362402,00.html

20Cent

Any criticism of the US is considered "hate" or anti-American. This doesn't happen with other countries except perhaps Israel.

prinz

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Yeah, most of their aid goes to Israel:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362402,00.html

Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.

JustinDee

TheRevolution wrote: »

Robert Fisk doesn't hate America he just disagrees with a lot of their foreign policy. Hes equally critical of Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah (which is quite brave of him considering he lives in Beirut), Syria and Iran

He lives in Dublin. Not in Beirut.
He wrote a book, qualifies for tax relief and is thus an Irish 'resident'.

Far too many people take what he and the likes of Pilger write as gospel. They can be wrong from time to time also.

For example, moaning about sanctions on Iraq not working and Saddam flourishing, then their effects on normal everyday citizens but not on Saddam then when Iraq is invaded, they moan about the invasion (allegedly of course) to remove him.
Never mind complaining that the ancient Mesopotamian artifact he was taking over the border after the invasion was taken from him by a Marine. What was he doing with it in the first place?

Read objectively. Not as de facto on anything Middle East.

Sticky_Fingers

prinz wrote: »

Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.

Sorry but I don't care if the money is spent on bullets or bandaids for "friendly" nations, an obscene amount of US foreign aid is spent shoring up its allies. I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

Breakdown of where and what aid the US sends overseas for the past few years:
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

jackiebaron

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Everything I can remember reading from this man has been in condemnation of America. I basically think the man hates America because they are the most powerful nation in the world so he spins his articles against America.

Thoughts on this?

Criticise American war crimes and ruthless corporate-driven foreign policy = You're "anti-American"

Criticise Israeli oppression and persecution of Palestinians = You're an "anti-Semite"

Criticise British injustices in Ireland = You're a "shinner" of a "fenian bastard"

:rolleyes:

Happy Monday

TheRevolution wrote: »

It would be like the British government during the the 70s and 80s collaborating to detonate a carbomb in Dublin deliberately targetting civillians because of the actions of the IRA...........oh wait.

Or the Irish government providing money and weapons to the IRA in the last 1960s to murder innocent cilvilians in what was then and still is part of the United Kingdom...........oh wait.

prinz

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

Again you have to square that off against the US being the single biggest donor nation (i.e. government spending) in the world.

Recently pushed into second place in the last few years by the combined efforts of the European Union IIRC.

That "breakdown" is partisan rubbish tbh.

prinz

jackiebaron wrote: »

Criticise American war crimes and ruthless corporate-driven foreign policy = You're "anti-American"

No, that only happens if you refuse to also give credit where it is due, which many people make a habit of doing.

TheRevolution

JustinDee wrote: »

He lives in Dublin. Not in Beirut.
He wrote a book, qualifies for tax relief and is thus an Irish 'resident'.

He primarily lives in Beirut actually.

RayM

It's very rare that anybody who disagrees with Fisk's analysis actually explains why, without resorting to the usual lazy, ad-hominem bollocks about anti-Americanism. He must be doing something right.

jackiebaron

prinz wrote: »

Military aid. Try expanding that a bit. There are countless ways of streaming aid throughout the world. The US contributes about 50% of foreign aid for HIV/AIDS prevention/treatment globally. The US also tops the donations for the world food programme via the UN etc. To sit back and claim that the US does nothing for anyone is quite frankly B.S.

The US is the stingiest donor of foreign aid. Try looking at their figures as a proportion of their GDP and you'll soon see how little they give. Norway is up at the top as one of the most generous nations. Singing the praises of the amount the US donates is akin to patting Bill Gates on the back for giving a tenner to charity while the unemployed widow-mother of three in the council flat only gave a fiver.

prinz

jackiebaron wrote: »

The US is the stingiest donor of foreign aid. Try looking at their figures as a proportion of their GDP and you'll soon see how little they give. Norway is up at the top as one of the most generous nations. Singing the praises of the amount the US donates is akin to patting Bill Gates on the back for giving a tenner to charity while the unemployed widow-mother of three in the council flat only gave a fiver.

Oh right, so now the American govt does give aid, just not enough (apparently). :rolleyes:

Scanlas The 2nd

Sanjuro wrote: »

Yeah, it's bullshit.

He no more hates America than anyone else that objectively observes the activities of the American government and it's foreign policies.

Would you care to provide some evidence of this 'hatred,' or will you just rely on groundless accusations?

Of course there are reasons to be critical of the American Government (like most governments) but I feel Robert Fisk wants to find reasons to be critical. I think he is biased against America. I can't remember him commenting on the postive things the American Government has done for the world.

Sticky_Fingers

prinz wrote: »

Oh right, so now the American govt does give aid, just not enough (apparently). :rolleyes:

lets have a look see what much of this foreign aid is buying shall we (form American companies by the way:rolleyes:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

What a bunch of upstanding humanitarians they are

karma_

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Of course there are reasons to be critical of the American Government (like most governments) but I feel Robert Fisk wants to find reasons to be critical. I think he is biased against America. I can't remember him commenting on the postive things the American Government has done for the world.

So it's not that there are legitimate reasons to be critical of the US, it's just that he actually writes about them?

Never mind all the hacks that spew mindless spin about American Foreign policy, lets roundly condemn one of the few journos who actually has the balls to comment accurately on it.

Scanlas The 2nd

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Sorry but I don't care if the money is spent on bullets or bandaids for "friendly" nations, an obscene amount of US foreign aid is spent shoring up its allies. I doubt very much the US government (not the people) cares all that much about world poverty or suffering unless there is a percentage in it for them.

Breakdown of where and what aid the US sends overseas for the past few years:
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

Of Course they are going to help out their allies. It's their primary responsiblity to look out for their own country.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Groundless my bollox.

The guy obviously reads his articles like I do, and has come to the same conclusion.

What do you people want, The US to ignore the freeworld and just look after itself.

Get a grip man.

Currently theres protests for freedom in Bahrain, Yemen, Libya and Iran. The only one the US seems to be supporting are the ones in Iran. So yes, the US does look after itself. Get back to logging your bowel movements.

Scanlas The 2nd

karma_ wrote: »

So it's not that there are legitimate reasons to be critical of the US, it's just that he actually writes about them?

Never mind all the hacks that spew mindless spin about American Foreign policy, lets roundly condemn one of the few journos who actually has the balls to comment accurately on it.

The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. I don't really think it takes balls to write an article.

Nodin

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. ......

A few examples would be helpful.....

karma_

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The problem I have with Robert Fisk is that a lot of what he writes is nonsense. I don't really think it takes balls to write an article.

Go on then, show us something to back up your nonsense claim. Otherwise I call bullshít.