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Micheal Martin - society to blame for a "lazy" consensus over how the country was run

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    You find it refreshing that it's everyone's fault but his? Have you been paying attention to Fianna Fail for the last 3 years?

    We live in a democracy - the government only exists for as long as "the people" will it. Had there been mass demonstrations and some effort put in to actually complaining about all the bad decisions that have been made then an election would have been called years ago. How many people took to the streets to vent their frustrations and complain at what FF was doing on their behalf? A handful of OAP's and some students...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭DonalK1981


    charlemont wrote: »
    Martin is really getting on peoples nerves, he is bonkers, thankfully no one I know will vote for that eejit..

    Would you put it past them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭bonerm


    Its Fianna fail's fault AND our fault (as a collective population .. as an individual, you might never have voted for them and might also have not lived on enormous amounts of borrowed money and so are not culpable) AND the opposition at the time's fault AND the banks.....

    That's me. Thanks everyone. I'll just go off and feel smug for a while now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    Its Fianna fail's fault AND our fault (as a collective population .. as an individual, you might never have voted for them and might also have not lived on enormous amounts of borrowed money and so are not culpable) AND the opposition at the time's fault AND the banks.....


    The people at large were mocked and told to kill themselves by their government if they questioned the economic boom, they were systematically lied to and dissenting voices were shouted down. I don't really think it's their fault. except congenital FF voters.

    Edit: Also I'm not culpable under your definition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 364 ✭✭dilbert2


    It would be interesting to here a FF election song with something along the lines of the Simpson's "It's not the mayor's fault that the stadium collapsed".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭bonerm


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    It would be interesting to here a FF election song with something along the lines of the Simpson's "It's not the mayor's fault that the stadium collapsed".

    Under Fianna Fail the stadium doesn't even get built in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    He can come out with any desperate old cock he likes, and with any luck, they'll be holding the next FF ard fheis in his garden shed, because there will be plenty room.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    bonerm wrote: »
    Under Fianna Fail the stadium doesn't even get built in the first place.
    And that is their biggest regret...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭KrazeeEyezKilla


    He's never explained who it was that drove this consensus in the first place and why he didn't challenge it. It's easy to say that the public would have turned on them but in the long run they would have been better off losing the last election. People didn't ask for a property bubble in the first place and a competent government wouldn't have had to rely on it to survive. Most people who got themselves into debt during the boom are paying for it now, as are the people who didn't "party". The Government, & Regulators whose job is to run the economy and the Bankers & Developers who are the most responsible for the mess and have largely gotten away with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    Sure me ma voted for them, I am not going to change now.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    He's never explained who it was that drove this consensus in the first place and why he didn't challenge it. It's easy to say that the public would have turned on them but in the long run they would have been better off losing the last election. People didn't ask for a property bubble in the first place and a competent government wouldn't have had to rely on it to survive. Most people who got themselves into debt during the boom are paying for it now, as are the people who didn't "party". The Government, & Regulators whose job is to run the economy and the Bankers & Developers who are the most responsible for the mess and have largely gotten away with it.

    Governments are supposed to give people what they need not what they want. That defence is bollocks and makes the seem like the weak willed ****s that they so truly are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    They are to blame though.

    They managed the country's finances, not us.
    I don't expect them to have a crystal ball, but the country should be run like a business, don't overstretch or you will go bankrupt.

    How he can say anything like that after all the money that was thrown around is nonsense.

    The amount of quangos they created was outrageous.

    "Do we really need another seperate body for that?"
    "Sure we do, don't worry we're loaded, let the good times roll."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Sanjuro


    Fianna Fail should change their election slogan to 'Fuck off. We don't want power.'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    skelliser wrote: »
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/election/news/martin-dail-business-ridiculous-493589.html


    Just when you though these FF scumbags could get any worse they come out with this!!!
    This fool has been in gov. for 14 years and what has he done! nothing, absolutely **** all!!


    Fianna Fail - the party which blames everyone else but themselves!!

    I never thought fianna fail couldnt get worse!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭KrazeeEyezKilla


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    Governments are supposed to give people what they need not what they want. That defence is bollocks and makes the seem like the weak willed ****s that they so truly are.

    Huh!!!! Where did I defend them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    Huh!!!! Where did I defend them?

    Sorry, wasn't on at you. I was thinking of Bertie saying he couldn't deflate the economy because he'd be crucified. I have so much rage.:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Micheal Martin is 100% correct. Society IS to blame.

    We had three elections, THREE, when we voted in that bunch of incompotent crooks. A people get the government they deserve and we got what we deserved by putting Fianna Fail into power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    The brainless mob mentality that is shown in threads like this is the same brainless mentality that contributed to the downturn. People were not just idly enjoying the boom, there were many who were actively upset that the government was not being generous enough. Every budget was not complete until newspapers, TV etc had the usual "a great opportunity wasted" whingebag stories.

    Basically some people can be short sighted, selfish and ignorant of what is the right thing to do. Sadly we have a political system which rewards short term politics and panders to these short sighted, selfish and ignorant traits. Of course FF made disastrous mistakes. Of course they should have made the right decisions and ensured the country remained somewhat stable. Of course they should have responded to warnings of a property bubble which were flagged as early as 2000. The failure to implement sufficient regulation and accountability in the financial sector is a terrible, terrible error which we will suffer from for a long time.

    But to do the right thing all the time would have meant political suicide and brought in a different set of similar self-serving politicians who would have made similar poor decisions. Maybe not the same poor decisions, but they would have responded to the whims of the public or suffered defeat in the next election.

    Until we get true electoral reform and get local BS out of national politics, we won't have true change. There should be more people coming up with arguments like the one Dermot Desmond recently published and which was reprinted in Saturdays Irish Times.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0212/1224289635945.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    your having a laugh! Dermot Desmond!!

    he did nicely out of the boom but unlike the vast majority isnt suffering now!

    he is a prime example of how you say it
    short term politics and panders to these short sighted, selfish and ignorant traits.

    and who was one of Desmonds best friends? None other then Charles J Haughey!

    oh and afaik Desmond isnt primarily resident in ireland so doesnt pay any tax here!

    oh least we forget who is stalling and messing at the mahon tribunal!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    The brainless mob mentality that is shown in threads like this is the same brainless mentality that contributed to the downturn...........

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0212/1224289635945.html

    Read the article. Mr Desmond makes alot of changes and dosn't seem to notice that the politics we have wouldn't work in any bluddy parliament. There is no debate, all decisions are made behind closed doors among party members and then statements are released in a performance piece in the Dail. The Dail has little or no real function anymore, that's the fault of the people who keep electing corrupt cronies.

    The answer to our problems is to stop electing these bluddy cronies. Judging by the polls people have not learnt one iota in the last few years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    skelliser wrote: »
    your having a laugh! Dermot Desmond!!

    he did nicely out of the boom but unlike the vast majority isnt suffering now!

    he is a prime example of how you say it


    and who was one of Desmonds best friends? None other then Charles J Haughey!

    oh and afaik Desmond isnt primarily resident in ireland so doesnt pay any tax here!

    oh least we forget who is stalling and messing at the mahon tribunal!!

    Read the article, then make your mind up. Where he pays taxes, who his friends were or how much money he has made have no impact on whether his ideas in the publication are good. Your post is a classic case of ignoring what actually matters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    squod wrote: »
    Read the article. Mr Desmond makes alot of changes and dosn't seem to notice that the politics we have wouldn't work in any bluddy parliament. There is no debate, all decisions are made behind closed doors among party members and then statements are released in a performance piece in the Dail. The Dail has little or no real function anymore, that's the fault of the people who keep electing corrupt cronies.

    The answer to our problems is to stop electing these bluddy cronies. Judging by the polls people have not learnt one iota in the last few years.

    His suggestions are an effort to change the way we think about politics and to lead to less cronies being elected. If you make the political changes that many people are suggesting (not just Desmond, but he was the most recent so I used his article) then we would have a completely different environment. There would be debate and public decisions.

    You are projecting your problems with past mistakes onto possible future solutions. It is understandable to think it will never change, but it never actually will change if people keep thinking that!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    AH politics is great, everyone seems to know what exactly went wrong and who to blame and of course its anyone but themselves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Read the article, then make your mind up. Where he pays taxes, who his friends were or how much money he has made have no impact on whether his ideas in the publication are good. Your post is a classic case of ignoring what actually matters.

    Tell me what makes Desmond an authority on political reform considering his past relationships with FF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    I despise Fianna Fail and all he stands for, but the man ain't wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭bonerm


    AH politics is great, everyone seems to know what exactly went wrong and who to blame and of course its anyone but themselves.

    Our hero.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    After hearing Martin come out with this guff, I'm so glad I'm not a part of society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    skelliser wrote: »
    Tell me what makes Desmond an authority on political reform considering his past relationships with FF?

    Have you read the article? Do you agree with what he has said or not?

    A friendship with Charlie Haughey does not mean that in 2011 he could not write an article that has some ideas that are useful. I don't care where good ideas come from, I just want to hear good ideas. Not that AH is exactly the place I expect to read good ideas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    skelliser wrote: »
    and who was one of Desmonds best friends? None other then Charles J Haughey!


    Emmmm i dont think thats necessarily a benefit tbh.

    Didnt haughey rob from another of his best mates medical fund.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    The Twit Martin, now believes we were all part of this 'consensus' that was formulated in the Galway tent.


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