Fine Gael's promise to give €120 million to Celtic Tiger house purchasers.

Dionysus · 13-02-2011 02:50AM #1

Does anybody here agree with this blatant bribe from Fine Gael of those people who purchased a house during the peak years of the Celtic Tiger?

Story here and here.

'FINE GAEL in government would increase mortgage interest relief for the “negative equity generation” to allow savings of up to €166 per month, finance spokesman Michael Noonan said at the launch of his party’s banking strategy yesterday.'

It costs around €150 to get a child assessed by a child psychologist in an Irish school. If that child is assessed, his/her life begins to turn around as it opens up learning support and resource teaching which helps him/her through school and allows other kids in the class he/she was disrupting to learn. At the moment, children all across Ireland are unable to access this psychologist because of cutbacks. The entire class that the child is in suffers as a result of this. This is just one example of a small investment that will benefit students and families across the country.

Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house (houses?) at the height of the boom. It's morally unjustifiable to redirect taxes to these people given the sort of cutbacks which are being implemented across society, and which Fine Gael will of course continue.

How anybody can expect Fine Gael to be ethical in government when they're making this sort of promise before an election beggars belief. That Ahern and his crowd of incompetents basically bribed Irish voters in 2007 with similar promises makes me wonder about the ability of the Irish electorate to learn any lessons from the past.

meditraitor · 13-02-2011 02:53AM

Yes; I am not one of them

Dionysus wrote: »

Does anybody here agree with this blatant bribe from Fine Gael of those people who purchased a house during the peak years of the Celtic Tiger?

Story here and here.

'FINE GAEL in government would increase mortgage interest relief for the “negative equity generation” to allow savings of up to €166 per month, finance spokesman Michael Noonan said at the launch of his party’s banking strategy yesterday.'

It costs around €150 to get a child assessed by a child psychologist in an Irish school. If that child is assessed, his/her life begins to turn around as it opens up learning support and resource teaching which helps him/her through school and allows other kids in the class he/she was disrupting to learn. At the moment, children all across Ireland are unable to access this psychologist because of cutbacks. The entire class that the child is in suffers as a result of this. This is just one example of a small investment that will benefit students and families across the country.

Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house (houses?) at the height of the boom. It's morally unjustifiable to redirect taxes to these people given the sort of cutbacks which are being implemented across society, and which Fine Gael will of course continue.

How anybody can expect Fine Gael to be ethical in government when they're making this sort of promise before an election beggars belief. That Ahern and his crowd of incompetents basically bribed Irish voters in 2007 with similar promises makes me wonder about the ability of the Irish electorate to learn any lessons from the past.

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

Senna · 13-02-2011 02:55AM

They still dont get it, we need jobs, not fúcking handouts to pay the mortgage.

dilbert2 · 13-02-2011 03:06AM

Yes; I am not one of them

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

Quiet right, Fine Gael are like some concoction of Fianna Fail gombeenism and catholic right wing politics morphed into one entity. To be honest, part of the reason I am so hesitant to celebrate the welcomed decline of Fianna Fail over the last year or so is that Fine Gael has not followed the same downward spiral with them. The sooner both these dinosaurs and civil war relics are obliterated, and the sooner we have a proper left-vs-right political system, the better Ireland will be in future.

starbelgrade · 13-02-2011 03:12AM

Senna wrote: »

They still dont get it, we need jobs, not fúcking handouts to pay the mortgage.

Governments can't create jobs - well, they can, but only public service ones that cost money.

What they can do however, is try to create wealth, which in turn, creates jobs.

Increasing people's purchasing power is one way to help create wealth & in turn, jobs, so I can't see this initiative as being anything but a positive step.

Whether it ever happens or not is a different question altogether.

Misty Chaos · 13-02-2011 03:25AM

Yes; I am not one of them

That sounds like a bad joke. :mad:

This is almost as bad as giving money to the banks and will only give people the impression that if you screw up, its OK, the government will bail you out of it!

Sickening.

Stinicker · 13-02-2011 03:29AM

No; I am one of them.

Misty Chaos wrote: »

That sounds like a bad joke. :mad:

This is almost as bad as giving money to the banks and will only give people the impression that if you screw up, its OK, the government will bail you out of it!

Sickening.

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

skelliser · 13-02-2011 03:31AM

As much as it pains me this needs to happen if we are to avoid these people dragging the country back to the stone age.

Imagine a situation where over 100,000 people default on there mortgages!!!
I think people need to wake up to how ****ed we are.
This year will be the worst yet, we are looking at a massive wave of mortgage default and a possible national default.

The national default is well and truely underway, in november 35billion in deposits left this island, 40 billion in december.
Figures for january arent out yet. Basically there has been a run on the banks for the last six months and no one in our
media or political class is talking about it!!

This policy is the lesser of two evils and imo a good thing to try and save whats left of the country..

starbelgrade · 13-02-2011 03:32AM

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, I don't see any need for the personal dig you tried to give the other poster in your last sentence.

No need to take the man out if you can take the ball out cleanly.

meglome · 13-02-2011 03:34AM

No; I am one of them.

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

As you full well know not all Christians in Europe are Catholics so your point is ridiculous. Talk about muck flinging, you a FF or Labour supporter?.

I'm torn on this proposal...we're funding the banks and if more mortgage holders can't pay we'll be paying for it. Might be the lesser of two evil to prop them up somewhat, for a while.

Misty Chaos · 13-02-2011 03:38AM

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

Firstly, I despise FF and want nothing to do with them but that is because of the gross imcopetence over the years, not just their actions during the recession.

Secondly, while I sympathize with people who are genuinely are in trouble as a result of buying a house during the boom, I simply don't believe bailing them is going to be of much help, like I said, it would breed of culture of where if people screw up, they think the government will be more than happy to bail them out, this is something I DO NOT want.

I hate the idea of people losing their homes but I honestly do not think this is the right solution and sounds like nothing more than election spin, that is I what I think.

EDIT: I should also add, I don't approve of the bank bailouts either, like almost every other clear minded person.

Dangerous Man · 13-02-2011 03:38AM

The Irish will vote for the rats again. Don't worry. All the Irish want is someone who'll fix a drain who's a 'grand man' like Michael Lowry or Jackie Healy Rae. We'll never have a sensible, modern government that deals with pressing issues in an intelligent fashion as long as drink-faced gombeens are given the time of day in this country.

Stinicker · 13-02-2011 03:39AM

No; I am one of them.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, I don't see any need for the personal dig you tried to give the other poster in your last sentence.

No need to take the man out if you can take the ball out cleanly.

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

starbelgrade · 13-02-2011 03:46AM

Stinicker wrote: »

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

I hear you, but you can never win if you try & explain your reasoning to someone and then insult them in the same breath. They'll only hear the insult.

Misty Chaos · 13-02-2011 03:50AM

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

Here, don't worry about it. I understand why you reacted like you did, guess I should be clearer in what I approve and disapprove of in future.

Stinicker · 13-02-2011 03:51AM

No; I am one of them.

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Firstly, I despise FF and want nothing to do with them but that is because of the gross imcopetence over the years, not just their actions during the recession.

Secondly, while I sympathize with people who are genuinely are in trouble as a result of buying a house during the boom, I simply don't believe bailing them is going to be of much help, like I said, it would breed of culture of where if people screw up, they think the government will be more than happy to bail them out, this is something I DO NOT want.

I hate the idea of people losing their homes but I honestly do not think this is the right solution and sounds like nothing more than election spin, that is I what I think.

The banks have gotten billions so a few million to struggling householders is a drop in the ocean in comparison, will every penny given to the banks be reclaimed... like hell it will, socialise the losses, pocket the profits the small guy will have to repay every penny yet the big guy gets off scott free, talk about injustice.

There has to be something done and even if it was only loan extension to take the pressure off people, banks hounding people will not get them back their money and sending scumbag ex-con as debt collectors to peoples doors of people who can't pay is a joke.

Make the Fianna Fail developers and cronies pay; They have billions funnelled out of the economy and assets changed over into wives and girlfriends and set up the brother in law as the fall guy for the whole thing, he can be declared bankrupt for the thing and we'll look after him then, assets in the wifes name untouchable etc.

Then the developers can go into NAMA who will buy their debts from the bank for say 10% of worth and will then do a firesale of the property for €50k a house only to sell it back to the corrupt developers clique of FF hacks again who will sell it on for €80 to €100K making more profit off the backs of the working man and ordinary tax payer. FF are traitors and the first act of any new Government is to ban their party and ensure they never have any say in running our country again.

Its the small guys turn now for some help imo.

TheZohanS · 13-02-2011 03:58AM

No; I am not one of them.

Anyone that bought a house, myself included, knew that the value of our investment could go down as well as up.

FG are trying to buy votes by offering this to people in negative equity, plus it's impossible to police. You could have someone worth millions that traded up in the boom whose house is wrth less availing of this tax relief. Ridiculous.

upandcumming · 13-02-2011 04:05AM

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 10:06AM

Yes; I am not one of them

The ultimate "vote buying" exercise.

A home is the most important and most expensive investment that the vast majority of us will ever make. On this basis, the utmost care and attention should be given to this decision.

Bailing out people who made poor financial decisions is what got us into this mess. Continuing this and extending it isnt going to change anything.

Just think of it this way. Alison O'Riordan is probably entitled to about €250,000.

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 10:09AM

Yes; I am not one of them

meglome wrote: »

As you full well know not all Christians in Europe are Catholics so your point is ridiculous. Talk about muck flinging, you a FF or Labour supporter?.

I'm torn on this proposal...we're funding the banks and if more mortgage holders can't pay we'll be paying for it. Might be the lesser of two evil to prop them up somewhat, for a while.

Why pay on the double?

ShatterProof · 13-02-2011 10:13AM

Where is the "Yes - I am not one of them option" ?

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 10:13AM

Yes; I am not one of them

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

If it isnt a bribe or a sweetener then what is it?

orourkeda · 13-02-2011 10:15AM

Yes; I am not one of them

TheZohan wrote: »

Anyone that bought a house, myself included, knew that the value of our investment could go down as well as up.

FG are trying to buy votes by offering this to people in negative equity, plus it's impossible to police. You could have someone worth millions that traded up in the boom whose house is wrth less availing of this tax relief. Ridiculous.

True. Besides, the money isn't there. If it was, there are better things to spend it on.

Caoimhín · 13-02-2011 10:30AM

Yes; I am not one of them

If I thought for one second that buy to let landlords or property speculators will get a sniff of my tax in aid I will shut my business and leave this country for good.

whiteonion · 13-02-2011 10:35AM

Yes; I am not one of them

I will not vote in this election, that is for sure. FG and FF are the same bunch of cnuts. Bailing out the banks was a bad idea. Bailing out idiots who took loans that they couldn't afford to service is also a bad idea.

People who make bad investments should have to suffer the losses and not get bailed out by anyone else.

If I lose money on the stock market while using insane amount of leverage on my investment no one would come to my rescue. People who bought at the hight of the boom bought houses using insane amount of leverage why do people think they should get bailed out?

Kidchameleon · 13-02-2011 10:56AM

No; I am one of them.

Dionysus wrote: »

Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house

OP doesn't have children so doesn't understand.

snubbleste · 13-02-2011 11:18AM

Yes; I am not one of them

Caoimhín wrote: »

If I thought for one second that buy to let landlords or property speculators will get a sniff of my tax in aid I will shut my business and leave this country for good.

There's plenty of taxpayer provided reliefs for BTL specuvestors including landlords dole aka rent supplement.

Tbh the FG proposal is disgusting, they should be facilitating an environment to encourage employment.

ilovesleep · 13-02-2011 11:25AM

whiteonion wrote: »

I will not vote in this election, that is for sure. FG and FF are the same bunch of cnuts. Bailing out the banks was a bad idea. Bailing out idiots who took loans that they couldn't afford to service is also a bad idea.

People who make bad investments should have to suffer the losses and not get bailed out by anyone else.

If I lose money on the stock market while using insane amount of leverage on my investment no one would come to my rescue. People who bought at the hight of the boom bought houses using insane amount of leverage why do people think they should get bailed out?

Please dont waste your vote. Vote labour or independants or SF

Captain Darling · 13-02-2011 11:26AM

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

I always knew they were a bunch of child molesters...

iPlop · 13-02-2011 11:31AM

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

Ya see ,I think it's great that they want to help people who are in trouble but what I think will happen is that the banks will just raise interest rates because people were "coping" before the handout ,so they'll knock it up another 1% and there goes that 166 euro of relief straight into the bank

danbohan · 13-02-2011 11:33AM

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

of course its right to help mortgage holders , lets make it fair and help out all mortgage holders past and present in this country since 1922 , fair ? of course , mad ,? defiantly , any worse than the fine gael proposal ? no

Fine Gael's promise to give €120 million to Celtic Tiger house purchasers.

Do you agree with Fine Gael's pledge to give €120 million to boom-time house buyers? 222 votes

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