Fine Gael's promise to give €120 million to Celtic Tiger house purchasers.

Dionysus

Does anybody here agree with this blatant bribe from Fine Gael of those people who purchased a house during the peak years of the Celtic Tiger?

Story here and here.

'FINE GAEL in government would increase mortgage interest relief for the “negative equity generation” to allow savings of up to €166 per month, finance spokesman Michael Noonan said at the launch of his party’s banking strategy yesterday.'

---

It costs around €150 to get a child assessed by a child psychologist in an Irish school. If that child is assessed, his/her life begins to turn around as it opens up learning support and resource teaching which helps him/her through school and allows other kids in the class he/she was disrupting to learn. At the moment, children all across Ireland are unable to access this psychologist because of cutbacks. The entire class that the child is in suffers as a result of this. This is just one example of a small investment that will benefit students and families across the country.


Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house (houses?) at the height of the boom. It's morally unjustifiable to redirect taxes to these people given the sort of cutbacks which are being implemented across society, and which Fine Gael will of course continue.

How anybody can expect Fine Gael to be ethical in government when they're making this sort of promise before an election beggars belief. That Ahern and his crowd of incompetents basically bribed Irish voters in 2007 with similar promises makes me wonder about the ability of the Irish electorate to learn any lessons from the past.

meditraitor

Yes; I am not one of them

Dionysus wrote: »

Does anybody here agree with this blatant bribe from Fine Gael of those people who purchased a house during the peak years of the Celtic Tiger?

Story here and here.

'FINE GAEL in government would increase mortgage interest relief for the “negative equity generation” to allow savings of up to €166 per month, finance spokesman Michael Noonan said at the launch of his party’s banking strategy yesterday.'

---

It costs around €150 to get a child assessed by a child psychologist in an Irish school. If that child is assessed, his/her life begins to turn around as it opens up learning support and resource teaching which helps him/her through school and allows other kids in the class he/she was disrupting to learn. At the moment, children all across Ireland are unable to access this psychologist because of cutbacks. The entire class that the child is in suffers as a result of this. This is just one example of a small investment that will benefit students and families across the country.


Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house (houses?) at the height of the boom. It's morally unjustifiable to redirect taxes to these people given the sort of cutbacks which are being implemented across society, and which Fine Gael will of course continue.

How anybody can expect Fine Gael to be ethical in government when they're making this sort of promise before an election beggars belief. That Ahern and his crowd of incompetents basically bribed Irish voters in 2007 with similar promises makes me wonder about the ability of the Irish electorate to learn any lessons from the past.

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

Senna

They still dont get it, we need jobs, not fúcking handouts to pay the mortgage.

dilbert2

Yes; I am not one of them

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

Quiet right, Fine Gael are like some concoction of Fianna Fail gombeenism and catholic right wing politics morphed into one entity. To be honest, part of the reason I am so hesitant to celebrate the welcomed decline of Fianna Fail over the last year or so is that Fine Gael has not followed the same downward spiral with them. The sooner both these dinosaurs and civil war relics are obliterated, and the sooner we have a proper left-vs-right political system, the better Ireland will be in future.

starbelgrade

Senna wrote: »

They still dont get it, we need jobs, not fúcking handouts to pay the mortgage.

Governments can't create jobs - well, they can, but only public service ones that cost money.

What they can do however, is try to create wealth, which in turn, creates jobs.

Increasing people's purchasing power is one way to help create wealth & in turn, jobs, so I can't see this initiative as being anything but a positive step.

Whether it ever happens or not is a different question altogether.

Misty Chaos

Yes; I am not one of them

That sounds like a bad joke. :mad:

This is almost as bad as giving money to the banks and will only give people the impression that if you screw up, its OK, the government will bail you out of it!

Sickening.

Stinicker

No; I am one of them.

Misty Chaos wrote: »

That sounds like a bad joke. :mad:

This is almost as bad as giving money to the banks and will only give people the impression that if you screw up, its OK, the government will bail you out of it!

Sickening.

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

skelliser

As much as it pains me this needs to happen if we are to avoid these people dragging the country back to the stone age.

Imagine a situation where over 100,000 people default on there mortgages!!!
I think people need to wake up to how ****ed we are.
This year will be the worst yet, we are looking at a massive wave of mortgage default and a possible national default.

The national default is well and truely underway, in november 35billion in deposits left this island, 40 billion in december.
Figures for january arent out yet. Basically there has been a run on the banks for the last six months and no one in our
media or political class is talking about it!!

This policy is the lesser of two evils and imo a good thing to try and save whats left of the country..

starbelgrade

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, I don't see any need for the personal dig you tried to give the other poster in your last sentence.

No need to take the man out if you can take the ball out cleanly.

meglome

No; I am one of them.

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

As you full well know not all Christians in Europe are Catholics so your point is ridiculous. Talk about muck flinging, you a FF or Labour supporter?.

I'm torn on this proposal...we're funding the banks and if more mortgage holders can't pay we'll be paying for it. Might be the lesser of two evil to prop them up somewhat, for a while.

Misty Chaos

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

Firstly, I despise FF and want nothing to do with them but that is because of the gross imcopetence over the years, not just their actions during the recession.

Secondly, while I sympathize with people who are genuinely are in trouble as a result of buying a house during the boom, I simply don't believe bailing them is going to be of much help, like I said, it would breed of culture of where if people screw up, they think the government will be more than happy to bail them out, this is something I DO NOT want.

I hate the idea of people losing their homes but I honestly do not think this is the right solution and sounds like nothing more than election spin, that is I what I think.

EDIT: I should also add, I don't approve of the bank bailouts either, like almost every other clear minded person.

Dangerous Man

The Irish will vote for the rats again. Don't worry. All the Irish want is someone who'll fix a drain who's a 'grand man' like Michael Lowry or Jackie Healy Rae. We'll never have a sensible, modern government that deals with pressing issues in an intelligent fashion as long as drink-faced gombeens are given the time of day in this country.

Stinicker

No; I am one of them.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Whilst I agree with what you are saying, I don't see any need for the personal dig you tried to give the other poster in your last sentence.

No need to take the man out if you can take the ball out cleanly.

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

starbelgrade

Stinicker wrote: »

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

I hear you, but you can never win if you try & explain your reasoning to someone and then insult them in the same breath. They'll only hear the insult.

Misty Chaos

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

Noted and I apologise unreservedly. What really gauls me is when people make such a big deal about small things like social welfare and help for the little guy, yet totally ignoring the treason committed by FF and make those responsible bear the brunt and let the banks go burst not the ordinary person.

Here, don't worry about it. I understand why you reacted like you did, guess I should be clearer in what I approve and disapprove of in future.

Stinicker

No; I am one of them.

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Firstly, I despise FF and want nothing to do with them but that is because of the gross imcopetence over the years, not just their actions during the recession.

Secondly, while I sympathize with people who are genuinely are in trouble as a result of buying a house during the boom, I simply don't believe bailing them is going to be of much help, like I said, it would breed of culture of where if people screw up, they think the government will be more than happy to bail them out, this is something I DO NOT want.

I hate the idea of people losing their homes but I honestly do not think this is the right solution and sounds like nothing more than election spin, that is I what I think.

The banks have gotten billions so a few million to struggling householders is a drop in the ocean in comparison, will every penny given to the banks be reclaimed... like hell it will, socialise the losses, pocket the profits the small guy will have to repay every penny yet the big guy gets off scott free, talk about injustice.

There has to be something done and even if it was only loan extension to take the pressure off people, banks hounding people will not get them back their money and sending scumbag ex-con as debt collectors to peoples doors of people who can't pay is a joke.

Make the Fianna Fail developers and cronies pay; They have billions funnelled out of the economy and assets changed over into wives and girlfriends and set up the brother in law as the fall guy for the whole thing, he can be declared bankrupt for the thing and we'll look after him then, assets in the wifes name untouchable etc.

Then the developers can go into NAMA who will buy their debts from the bank for say 10% of worth and will then do a firesale of the property for €50k a house only to sell it back to the corrupt developers clique of FF hacks again who will sell it on for €80 to €100K making more profit off the backs of the working man and ordinary tax payer. FF are traitors and the first act of any new Government is to ban their party and ensure they never have any say in running our country again.

Its the small guys turn now for some help imo.

TheZohanS

No; I am not one of them.

Anyone that bought a house, myself included, knew that the value of our investment could go down as well as up.

FG are trying to buy votes by offering this to people in negative equity, plus it's impossible to police. You could have someone worth millions that traded up in the boom whose house is wrth less availing of this tax relief. Ridiculous.

upandcumming

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

orourkeda

Yes; I am not one of them

The ultimate "vote buying" exercise.

A home is the most important and most expensive investment that the vast majority of us will ever make. On this basis, the utmost care and attention should be given to this decision.

Bailing out people who made poor financial decisions is what got us into this mess. Continuing this and extending it isnt going to change anything.

Just think of it this way. Alison O'Riordan is probably entitled to about €250,000.

orourkeda

Yes; I am not one of them

meglome wrote: »

As you full well know not all Christians in Europe are Catholics so your point is ridiculous. Talk about muck flinging, you a FF or Labour supporter?.

I'm torn on this proposal...we're funding the banks and if more mortgage holders can't pay we'll be paying for it. Might be the lesser of two evil to prop them up somewhat, for a while.

Why pay on the double?

ShatterProof

Where is the "Yes - I am not one of them option" ?

orourkeda

Yes; I am not one of them

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

If it isnt a bribe or a sweetener then what is it?

orourkeda

Yes; I am not one of them

TheZohan wrote: »

Anyone that bought a house, myself included, knew that the value of our investment could go down as well as up.

FG are trying to buy votes by offering this to people in negative equity, plus it's impossible to police. You could have someone worth millions that traded up in the boom whose house is wrth less availing of this tax relief. Ridiculous.

True. Besides, the money isn't there. If it was, there are better things to spend it on.

Caoimhín

Yes; I am not one of them

If I thought for one second that buy to let landlords or property speculators will get a sniff of my tax in aid I will shut my business and leave this country for good.

whiteonion

Yes; I am not one of them

I will not vote in this election, that is for sure. FG and FF are the same bunch of cnuts. Bailing out the banks was a bad idea. Bailing out idiots who took loans that they couldn't afford to service is also a bad idea.

People who make bad investments should have to suffer the losses and not get bailed out by anyone else.

If I lose money on the stock market while using insane amount of leverage on my investment no one would come to my rescue. People who bought at the hight of the boom bought houses using insane amount of leverage why do people think they should get bailed out?

Kidchameleon

No; I am one of them.

Dionysus wrote: »

Fine Gael is, however, offering to hand over up to €166 per month to each of those people who, with their own free will, decided to purchase a house

OP doesn't have children so doesn't understand.

snubbleste

Yes; I am not one of them

Caoimhín wrote: »

If I thought for one second that buy to let landlords or property speculators will get a sniff of my tax in aid I will shut my business and leave this country for good.

There's plenty of taxpayer provided reliefs for BTL specuvestors including landlords dole aka rent supplement.

Tbh the FG proposal is disgusting, they should be facilitating an environment to encourage employment.

ilovesleep

whiteonion wrote: »

I will not vote in this election, that is for sure. FG and FF are the same bunch of cnuts. Bailing out the banks was a bad idea. Bailing out idiots who took loans that they couldn't afford to service is also a bad idea.

People who make bad investments should have to suffer the losses and not get bailed out by anyone else.

If I lose money on the stock market while using insane amount of leverage on my investment no one would come to my rescue. People who bought at the hight of the boom bought houses using insane amount of leverage why do people think they should get bailed out?

Please dont waste your vote. Vote labour or independants or SF

Captain Darling

meditraitor wrote: »

FG are members of the Christian Democratic Party in Europe so if you want to support the pope VOTE FG

I always knew they were a bunch of child molesters...

iPlop

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

Ya see ,I think it's great that they want to help people who are in trouble but what I think will happen is that the banks will just raise interest rates because people were "coping" before the handout ,so they'll knock it up another 1% and there goes that 166 euro of relief straight into the bank

danbohan

Yes; I am not one of them

Stinicker wrote: »

I'd see nothing wrong with it tbh, and consider it alot more moral than bailing out the crooks in the banks. People are struggling and suffering due to what Fianna Fail did, if we had a proper government they would have let all the banks failed naturally and then set up a new state run National bank with the peoples savings secured in it. Bailing out the FF cronies & the banks was high treason in my book.

No problem giving the banks €100billion yet give struggling people a few euros to help on the Mortgage and it is sickening... are you a FF td by any chance?

of course its right to help mortgage holders , lets make it fair and help out all mortgage holders past and present in this country since 1922 , fair ? of course , mad ,? defiantly , any worse than the fine gael proposal ? no

iPlop

danbohan wrote: »

of course its right to help mortgage holders , lets make it fair and help out all mortgage holders past and present in this country since 1922 , fair ? of course , mad ,? defiantly , any worse than the fine gael proposal ? no

What needs to happen is an outright ban of hiking up interest rates by the banks ,and in that time if some banks collapse so be it.The ones that don't are able to cope with the financial meltdown.

Retail Hell

No; I am one of them.

Principal Primary Residences Yes,
Investment Properties No

Mark200

orourkeda wrote: »

If it isnt a bribe or a sweetener then what is it?

Help.

Doublin

Yes; I am not one of them

Sink The Banana wrote: »

Ya see ,I think it's great that they want to help people who are in trouble but what I think will happen is that the banks will just raise interest rates because people were "coping" before the handout ,so they'll knock it up another 1% and there goes that 166 euro of relief straight into the bank

Exactly. These type of gimmicks are the same policies of flash in the pan 'bribes' used by FF in the last decade or so. These type of things result in producers/service providers increasing their prices & lowering their costs (wages paid), while on the other side you will be hit by increases in direct & indirect taxes. This is already happening across the board from service providers to retailers. In this situation, the banks are the winners, taking more money from the taxpayer (both from the prices they charge & money received from the Government taxes/bailout).

If, for example, a 100,000 people/families defaulted on their mortgage this year, what do you think would happen? Would the government side with the banks or the people?

faceman

Where's the option "Yes, I'm not one of them"? OP weighting the discussion unfairly.

I don't see what the relevance of comparing the cost of child psychoanalysis has to do with this story. Altho to play same argument of the thread, it could be argued that "why should does who chose not to have kids or don't have kids have their tax money used to fund other people's children. I mean they chose to have their kids. They get children's allowance even if they don't need it"

Anyway back to the point. I'd be supportive of the FG move but I'd fear that as someone already suggested the banks would try absorb it through rate increases.

The knock on effect for the whole country of people in negative equity who are struggling financially, is they aren't spending money to support the economy. Without that spending you can't have economic growth. As they are in negative equity they can't sell or trade down their house. Therefore they're stuck.

Sure people bought at a time when a crash was likely but the crash has been coupled with an economic crisis in Ireland the likes never seen before. We have seen shady dealings emerge in politics and banks which, if we had known would have potentially prevented alot of what we are going through.

But we can't change the past. We are where we are. Something has to be done to both alleviate financial burden and create jobs. Creating jobs isn't the only solution needed to fix things

Getting back to FG proposal, I'd much rather see the incomig government do what the gov did in Iceland and force the banks to revalue mortgages in negative equity to the current level. It helped boost a recovery far quicker.

danbohan

Yes; I am not one of them

Sink The Banana wrote: »

What needs to happen is an outright ban of hiking up interest rates by the banks ,and in that time if some banks collapse so be it.The ones that don't are able to cope with the financial meltdown.

banks are in business , they need to be profitable you impose that you will close all the current banks , do any forighn banks want come in here in a depression ?

danbohan

Yes; I am not one of them

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

so what about people who did not buy in that period and are still in big financial trouble what do you do for them ? the whinge generation that bought at the top of the market better take responsibility for their actions and stop looking for someone to blame or someone to bail them out

desaparecidos

upandcumming wrote: »

More bollocks from the AHers. They're doing something here to keep people in their homes but it must be a bribe.

It's actually the bank's home until you pay off the mortgage. Something Irish people don't seems to understand.

So idiots 'buy' houses far outside their means, then the rest of us have to pay for their idiot decision?

Sounds familiar, is there no concept of taking it on the chin and working your way out of it?

twinQuins

Yes; I am not one of them

I'm amazed that this is even legal as it's little more than a bribe. Of course, this is Ireland where unethical behaviour is intertwined with the culture.

iPlop

danbohan wrote: »

banks are in business , they need to be profitable you impose that you will close all the current banks , do any forighn banks want come in here in a depression ?

I understand they're in business but they shouldn't be allowed to do what TSB did ,it shouldn't happen it's too much for people to cope with.The ones that can't cope should collapse and we should have 1 or 2 state run banks.What happens 6 months down the line when TSB or others are not meeting their projected targets? another 1% ,and again and again ,along with the ECB predicting they'll raise interest rates at the end of this year.

This is not logical it will only end with tens of thousands of people defaulting.If there were loads of jobs out there ,people would cope with interest hikes as they have done in the past.Just because they're running a business doesn't mean they should be allowed to do that.How do you take money off people that don't have it? it's flogging a dead horse ,do they really want the keys back? I doubt it.A bit of common sense is needed

What if you woke up tomorrow and your bank raised their interest rate by 5% and your mortgage went up an extra 600 euro per month? There's nothing stopping them from doing that ,would you agree that they're running a business then? it's the same with a 1% rate rise ,it shouldn't happen when most of the country is unemployed ,different times different measures

danbohan

Yes; I am not one of them

Sink The Banana wrote: »

I understand they're in business but they shouldn't be allowed to do what TSB did ,it shouldn't happen it's too much for people to cope with.The ones that can't cope should collapse and we should have 1 or 2 state run banks.What happens 6 months down the line when TSB or others are not meeting their projected targets? another 1% ,and again and again ,along with the ECB predicting they'll raise interest rates at the end of this year.

This is not logical it will only end with tens of thousands of people defaulting.If there were loads of jobs out there ,people would cope with interest hikes as they have done in the past.Just because they're running a business doesn't mean they should be allowed to do that.How do you take money off people that don't have it? it's flogging a dead horse ,do they really want the keys back? I doubt it.A bit of common sense is needed

What if you woke up tomorrow and your bank raised their interest rate by 5% and your mortgage went up an extra 600 euro per month? There's nothing stopping them from doing that ,would you agree that they're running a business then? it's the same with a 1% rate rise ,it shouldn't happen when most of the country is unemployed ,different times different measures

problem is the country is broke , unemployment and emigration will continue unabated so to think the state is in a position to maintain banking in a loss making situation indefinably is unrealistic

people bought houses of their own free will , by doing so you undertake to pay the mortgage on that property , mortgages rates can rise and fall , unemployment and recession are part of a normal lifetime and should be factored in

your home is at risk if you fail to pay your mortgage

whiteonion

Yes; I am not one of them

TBH I'd be happy to see banks raise interest rates alot.
Mortgage interest relief should be scrapped all together.
All rent allowance should be scrapped.
NAMA should start doing fire sales of properties.

This would cause the prices to drop to the levels they were in the nineties.
I would benefit alot from this.

smellslikeshoes

Yes; I am not one of them

I don't see why the tax payer should have to pay to help these people out. If you got caught up in the hype and made the decision to buy a 2 bedroom shoebox the responsibility of keeping up with the mortgage payments should be on your shoulders and not the rest of the country.

whiteonion

Yes; I am not one of them

Looks like FG is trying to buy a vote from Alison O'Riordan.

Lumen

whiteonion wrote: »

Looks like FG is trying to buy a vote from Alison O'Riordan.

Sunbed subsidies would be cheaper.

Lumen

Sink The Banana wrote: »

What if you woke up tomorrow and your bank raised their interest rate by 5% and your mortgage went up an extra 600 euro per month? There's nothing stopping them from doing that

Fixed rate mortgage.
ECB tracker mortgage.

iPlop

danbohan wrote: »

problem is the country is broke , unemployment and emigration will continue unabated so to think the state is in a position to maintain banking in a loss making situation indefinably is unrealistic

people bought houses of their own free will , by doing so you undertake to pay the mortgage on that property , mortgages rates can rise and fall , unemployment and recession are part of a normal lifetime and should be factored in

your home is at risk if you fail to pay your mortgage

So no one should buy houses? Right I want to settle down and raise a family but there might be a recession in 10 years so I won't?

That argument doesn't hold water.Lets stop blaming people for buying houses.If there were plenty of jobs and just a property crash with oversupply then this would be a non issue.But all the jobs are gone so people are idiots for buying houses ,Im sick of hearing this shit.We need to fix the problem instead of throwing people out of their houses and calling them idiots.They wern't idiots when the government was encouraging people to buy homes ,obviously because the government was creaming it from property at the time.

For the record I didn't buy in the boom ,Im in full employment and Im on a fixed mortgage that runs out in 2013

faceman

danbohan wrote: »

problem is the country is broke , unemployment and emigration will continue unabated so to think the state is in a position to maintain banking in a loss making situation indefinably is unrealistic

people bought houses of their own free will , by doing so you undertake to pay the mortgage on that property , mortgages rates can rise and fall , unemployment and recession are part of a normal lifetime and should be factored in

your home is at risk if you fail to pay your mortgage

People choose to have babies, drink alcohol and consume drugs. Yet as tax payees we fork out alot of money to support parents, single parents, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, addictions etc etc. Should we curtail that too because those people chose that lifestyle?

iPlop

whiteonion wrote: »

TBH I'd be happy to see banks raise interest rates alot.
Mortgage interest relief should be scrapped all together.
All rent allowance should be scrapped.
NAMA should start doing fire sales of properties.

This would cause the prices to drop to the levels they were in the nineties.
I would benefit alot from this.

That's an excellent idea ,homeless people everywhere.people that lost their home ,getting rent allowance to rent somewhere because they lost their jobs ,throw them to the street ,great idea :rolleyes:

danbohan

Yes; I am not one of them

Sink The Banana wrote: »

So no one should buy houses? Right I want to settle down and raise a family but there might be a recession in 10 years so I won't?

That argument doesn't hold water.Lets stop blaming people for buying houses.If there were plenty of jobs and just a property crash with oversupply then this would be a non issue.But all the jobs are gone so people are idiots for buying houses ,Im sick of hearing this shit.We need to fix the problem instead of throwing people out of their houses and calling them idiots.They wern't idiots when the government was encouraging people to buy homes ,obviously because the government was creaming it from property at the time.

For the record I didn't buy in the boom ,Im in full employment and Im on a fixed mortgage that runs out in 2013

of course people need to buy , but buy with your eyes open to the pitfalls in 5-10-20- years and dont cry for help when /if it goes wrong . if the normal lending criteria of 3-4 times income had been maintained or people had not delibretely often with banks help lied about their incomes they would not been in the sh1t now

their is no fix ,and no matter what fine gael are promising will their be