The Unoffiical IRA thread

ISAW · 11-02-2011 02:46PM #1

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Here is some material to begin with

1969 Official IRA and SF split from Provisional IRA and SF

Eamon Gilmore
Caltra Co Galway
Garbally College Ballinasloe

Member UCG Republican Club - a name used by SF to get around the Emergency Powers Act.
UCG SU president July 1974- June 1975
Pat Rabbitte was USI President 72-74
USI President 1976-1978

INLA and IRSP founded in a split in 1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Fein_The_Workers_Party#IRSP.2FINLA_split_and_feud

By 1976 the 55,000 strong USI were controlled by Sinn Féin
Sinn Féin were pro soviet USSR
At the 1976 Congress an ant soviet motion condemning repression was defeated.
Gilmore has Johnny Curran as his Education Officer

In 1976 OSF call the OIRA "Group B". OIRA are on ceasefire except for "defensive action" since 1969 split.

Gilmore now with a Sinn Féin the Workers Party has other SFWP pals Gerry Granger (president ) Education officer and Padrag Mannion (later Vice President) and John Ryan ( vice Pres).

By 1979 SFWP was losing control of students but the USI leadership is still under SFWP control. Gilmore moves to ITGWU Some others joining SFWP at this time secure ITGWU jobs as union bosses ironically having never worked in transport or as a general worker. Pat Rabbitte ( also a former USI President 72-74) is one of these SFWP recruits.

SFWP maintain links with USSR and China throught the 1980s doing courses at the Lenin summer School and meeting Chinese and Russian Communists in Moscow. Sean Garland and Des O hagan do this in 1987.

1979 OIRA get weapons from East Germany
1980 SFWP deny the OIRA exist.

(SFWP) became the Workers Party in 1982.

1983 Michael Noonan Minister for Justice confirms OIRA exist WP deny any connection to or knowledge of the existence of the OIRA

1984 WP printer REPSOL printing story on printing forged £5 notes.

1986 RTE Today Tonight report on OIRA connections to fraud and forgery

1986 Sunday Tribune edited by Vincent Browne story on OIRA rackets and criminal gangs in Dublin

At the 1990 WP Ard Fheis Oliver Donohue calls Gilmore and Rabitte the "Ceausescu Twins" for associating with students who had trained the secret police.

1992 British Spotlight programme on OIRA racketeering.

2009 OIRA opts to decommission.

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on
Group B - OIRA Racketeering and criminal activity
Soviet and Marxist Stalinist and Maoist links
Links with Saddam Hussein and Baathists
control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Most of the above comes fromn Hanely B and Millar S The Lost Revolution
The Story of the Official IRA and the Workers Party Penguin, Ireland,2009)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Revolution-Story-Official-Workers/dp/1844881202
I can provide page references later

ISAW · 11-02-2011 02:47PM

please edit title to include word "Unofficial IRA"

Nodin · 11-02-2011 02:49PM

ISAW wrote: »

control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

What?

Pete_Cavan · 11-02-2011 03:01PM

ISAW wrote: »

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on

You have a serious lack of links in your OP. You really should start the thread by providing links and proof, not going off on a rant and then inviting people to post links to back you up.

I am not a Labour or Gilmore fan but this is a bit ridiculous.

Cat Melodeon · 11-02-2011 03:08PM

In the interests of transparency I presume you are also going to do background checks on all the other candidates across all political parties? They all have a few contenders in there, I'm sure you'll want us to know about them too?

I would also like to see some links between Gilmore and these organisations that have existed within the past 20 years. I was anti-abortion when I was 16, have been actively campaigning on the pro-choice side for about 15 years now. People mature. Not if they keep their tinfoil hats on though...

Bottle_of_Smoke · 11-02-2011 03:18PM

I want FG to win with an overall majority but I think this is unnecessary scaremongering against Gilmore

He joined Official Sinn Fein linked group the UCG republican group in 1975. As you mentioned yourself the Official IRA movement split into the INLA/IRSP in 1974 the ones up for a military campaign went to them.

As for marxism he left for democratic left who were pro-free market so he's clearly not a marxist.

So no his history with the workers party has no influence on my opinion of labour. I can accept people change their views over time

bonkey · 11-02-2011 03:48PM

ISAW wrote: »

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Why?

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Maybe you could explain to us what effect you think it has first.

To me, it reads like a badly-interwoven history of the OIRA and history of Eamonn Gilmore. The whole thing is too nebulous and scraping in too many tenuously-related subjects to answer such a question.

That said, you (presumably) see the associations...you (presumably) know why you chose those points to add...you see a relevance, and a series of connections. In the interests of discussion, perhaps you could share with us your thoughts on the question you posed, as well as the associations you're trying to suggest or make in your post?

bonkey · 11-02-2011 03:50PM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Not if they keep their tinfoil hats on though...

WE can do without that type of comment, thanks.

petroltimer · 11-02-2011 03:50PM

There was investigative program made by the BBC(panorama?) or ITV, which traced links to former members of the workers party who were allegedly laundering North Korean counterfeit U.S. Dollars.

These people would have been associates of Gilmore, I wonder did he hear about any of these alleged goings on??

Does anybody know the name or have a link to this program? it was aired about 6-8 years ago, i'd love to get the names of those accused and see what links they have to Eamon Gilmore.

RobbieTheRobber · 11-02-2011 04:00PM

petroltimer wrote: »

There was investigative program made by the BBC(panorama?) or ITV, which traced links to former members of the workers party who were allegedly laundering North Korean counterfeit U.S. Dollars.

These people would have been associates of Gilmore, I wonder did he hear about any of these alleged goings on??

Does anybody know the name or have a link to this program? it was aired about 6-8 years ago, i'd love to get the names of those accused and see what links they have to Eamon Gilmore.

What definition of the word associate are you using here?
It seems you are trying to implicate Gilmore in criminal activity, but I would define your usage of associate here more as "3. To connect in the mind or imagination:"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/associates

Dionysus · 11-02-2011 07:53PM

ISAW wrote: »

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Here is some material to begin with

1969 Official IRA and SF split from Provisional IRA and SF

Eamon Gilmore
Caltra Co Galway
Garbally College Ballinasloe

Member UCG Republican Club - a name used by SF to get around the Emergency Powers Act.
UCG SU president July 1974- June 1975
Pat Rabbitte was USI President 72-74
USI President 1976-1978

INLA and IRSP founded in a split in 1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Fein_The_Workers_Party#IRSP.2FINLA_split_and_feud

By 1976 the 55,000 strong USI were controlled by Sinn Féin
Sinn Féin were pro soviet USSR
At the 1976 Congress an ant soviet motion condemning repression was defeated.
Gilmore has Johnny Curran as his Education Officer

In 1976 OSF call the OIRA "Group B". OIRA are on ceasefire except for "defensive action" since 1969 split.

Gilmore now with a Sinn Féin the Workers Party has other SFWP pals Gerry Granger (president ) Education officer and Padrag Mannion (later Vice President) and John Ryan ( vice Pres).

By 1979 SFWP was losing control of students but the USI leadership is still under SFWP control. Gilmore moves to ITGWU Some others joining SFWP at this time secure ITGWU jobs as union bosses ironically having never worked in transport or as a general worker. Pat Rabbitte ( also a former USI President 72-74) is one of these SFWP recruits.

SFWP maintain links with USSR and China throught the 1980s doing courses at the Lenin summer School and meeting Chinese and Russian Communists in Moscow. Sean Garland and Des O hagan do this in 1987.

1979 OIRA get weapons from East Germany
1980 SFWP deny the OIRA exist.

(SFWP) became the Workers Party in 1982.

1983 Michael Noonan Minister for Justice confirms OIRA exist WP deny any connection to or knowledge of the existence of the OIRA

1984 WP printer REPSOL printing story on printing forged £5 notes.

1986 RTE Today Tonight report on OIRA connections to fraud and forgery

1986 Sunday Tribune edited by Vincent Browne story on OIRA rackets and criminal gangs in Dublin

At the 1990 WP Ard Fheis Oliver Donohue calls Gilmore and Rabitte the "Ceausescu Twins" for associating with students who had trained the secret police.

1992 British Spotlight programme on OIRA racketeering.

2009 OIRA opts to decommission.

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on
Group B - OIRA Racketeering and criminal activity
Soviet and Marxist Stalinist and Maoist links
Links with Saddam Hussein and Baathists
control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Most of the above comes fromn Hanely B and Millar S The Lost Revolution
The Story of the Official IRA and the Workers Party Penguin, Ireland,2009)

I can provide page references later

If this is the best you can do, Gilmore has nothing to fear. I'd say this is a pathetic attempt to defame a man, but that would imply there's something wrong with any of what you've said, which, despite your clear intentions, there isn't. Éamonn Gilmore is an honourable, decent man. The very many people from all political parties who know him can attest to this.

Shea O'Meara · 11-02-2011 07:57PM

ISAW wrote: »

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

So, if this all points to underground shenanigans set in place decades ago to turn Ireland into some marxist/fascist shangrila for whackos...em, how do you explain the last few decades of the worst right wing corruption the state has ever seen?

Top of my head;
Haughey and the arm smuggling.
Haughey sending Lawlor to meet Saddam with an introductory letter from his excellency Charles Haughey.
Bertie claiming to be a socialist.
Bertie sending an FFail trade deligation, and going himself, to communist China.
Cowen and FFail destroying our country through personal gain/corruption.

Your thread is a joke.

Is this where FFail are taking this election run up when we need serious resolution to serious issues?

Wait! I found their Maoist little red book!!! http://www.labour.ie/manifesto

LOL, LOL indeed

paky · 11-02-2011 08:03PM

who gives a t.oss? Lots of students have extreme political views. Now hes part of Labour. so what? do you think people are not going to vote for him because of this? i've some respect for Gilmore saying this in public. At least he has some moral convictions.

UDAWINNER · 11-02-2011 08:04PM

im no labour supporter but i recognise anti-gilmore probaganda when i see it.

paky · 11-02-2011 08:08PM

if anything he should be applauded for his involvment in irelands independence campaign

KeithAFC · 11-02-2011 08:33PM

paky wrote: »

if anything he should be applauded for his involvment in irelands independence campaign

Which failed?

deise go deo · 11-02-2011 08:58PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Which failed?

Depends on how you measure success. Most of Ireland is Independant.

I can't imagin many who signed the Ulster covenant in Blood being to Happy with the ammount of power nationalists have in NI today.

But this really belongs in the History section.

Monty Burnz · 11-02-2011 10:39PM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I was anti-abortion when I was 16, have been actively campaigning on the pro-choice side for about 15 years now. People mature.

There's another Melodeon on another thread somewhere in the world saying that their views matured in the opposite direction.

whippet · 11-02-2011 11:05PM

what has history got to do with it !! ... Some of Gilmore & Rabbitte's mates from the Worker's Party and SFWP (Sean Garlandhave been linked with Super Dollars ...

But of course you can't be expected to be able to mention stuff like this because it was only their boss doing this :rolleyes:

Gilmore has been so nervous speaking about his past, even 'forgetting' dates and memberships, especially when pressed by Marion Finucane. IT Linky

Shouldn't a political leader be proud of his past?

He seems to think that dealings his wife had regarding huge sums of money paid over to her for school sites (when she was a senior member of a VEC) had nothing to do with him IT Linky .. Imagine the controversy if it was Brian Cowen's wife who did that deal :eek:

It seems that when you want to attack SF, FF or the Greens everything is fair game and nothing can be too harsh, but when you bring stuff like this up against FG or LAB you are accused of smearing, digging up irrelevance etc ...

clln · 11-02-2011 11:13PM

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

any chance Gilmore could be alerted to this to at least give him the right of reply?

whippet · 11-02-2011 11:18PM

clln wrote: »

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

any chance Gilmore could be alerted to this to at least give him the right of reply?

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

CoalBucket · 11-02-2011 11:27PM

whippet wrote: »

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

A character assassination is one thing, providing evidence is another. A serious lack of links bar to one dubious wikipedia link.

It's a bit of a joke tbh.

Come on OP lets see some proof or factual links to back up your claims

clln · 11-02-2011 11:29PM

whippet wrote: »

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

well then let all parties have somebody working for them appoint a rep to reply here.it shows just how stale this GE is that they have not done so already.

any party that takes exception to something said on radio contacts the station within minutes!

whippet · 11-02-2011 11:32PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

A character assassination is one thing, providing evidence is another. A serious lack of links bar to one dubious wikipedia link.

It's a bit of a joke tbh.

Come on OP lets see some proof or factual links to back up your claims

actually, most of the stuff posted in the OP is quite well known, nothing hidden or secret about it.

Check out the links I posted ..

whippet · 11-02-2011 11:35PM

clln wrote: »

well then let all parties have somebody working for them appoint a rep to reply here.it shows just how stale this GE is that they have not done so already.

any party that takes exception to something said on radio contacts the station within minutes!

To react to every negative post here would need an army of full time 'activists' from each party, even the mods must be finding it like a full time job here at the moment.

clln · 11-02-2011 11:45PM

whippet wrote: »

To react to every negative post here would need an army of full time 'activists' from each party, even the mods must be finding it like a full time job here at the moment.

well slurp slurp:) i think the mods are really doing a great job on the information/misinformation overload on the GE.

boards is read by many voters,it is foolish of the parties to ignore it.
FF in particular need to wake up to the fact that Civil war politics mean nothing to young voters and the same young people have no sense of loyalty to them.

nesf · 12-02-2011 12:33AM

So, even if one accepts the OP as true, which I don't really (the dates are mostly accurate as far as I can see but I'm not seeing any evidence of Gilmore being linked to much of what's mentioned), doesn't this just boil down to simply a man being more radical in his youth mellowing with age and drifting more right?

Nodin · 12-02-2011 01:18AM

deise go deo wrote: »

Depends on how you measure success. Most of Ireland is Independant.

I can't imagin many who signed the Ulster covenant in Blood being to Happy with the ammount of power nationalists have in NI today.

But this really belongs in the History section.

Given the claims re control of RTE, perhaps not. Doubtless the OP will return to educate us further.

Shea O'Meara · 12-02-2011 02:38AM

whippet wrote: »

He seems to think that dealings his wife had regarding huge sums of money paid over to her for school sites (when she was a senior member of a VEC) had nothing to do with him IT Linky .. Imagine the controversy if it was Brian Cowen's wife who did that deal :eek:

Commrade, you can't post blatant falsehoods.
His wife, which I accept is him, joined at the hip wise, sold one plot of land at the going rate. The end.
The amout of FFailers pushing this one, making up 'the facts' as they go is getting boring.

whippet wrote: »

It seems that when you want to attack SF, FF or the Greens everything is fair game and nothing can be too harsh, but when you bring stuff like this up against FG or LAB you are accused of smearing, digging up irrelevance etc ...

See calling someone out on blatant wrong doing, backed up with facts, can be seen as attacking, but justifiably.
Smearing is attempting to put someone in a bad light using little or nothing and colouring it to a silly extent, due to lack of pressing and/or factual material.

Wolfe Tone · 12-02-2011 02:41AM

Based on the OPs previous posts he didn't pull this out of his arse and has good sources.

Shea O'Meara · 12-02-2011 02:41AM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

How could you be both an anarchist and a Marxist? The two ideologies are on either sides of the Libertarian-Authoritarian spectrum.

You forgot the Student groups, they eat lil' puppies!:rolleyes:

The Unoffiical IRA thread

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