The Unoffiical IRA thread

ISAW

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Here is some material to begin with

1969 Official IRA and SF split from Provisional IRA and SF


Eamon Gilmore
Caltra Co Galway
Garbally College Ballinasloe

Member UCG Republican Club - a name used by SF to get around the Emergency Powers Act.
UCG SU president July 1974- June 1975
Pat Rabbitte was USI President 72-74
USI President 1976-1978

INLA and IRSP founded in a split in 1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Fein_The_Workers_Party#IRSP.2FINLA_split_and_feud

By 1976 the 55,000 strong USI were controlled by Sinn Féin
Sinn Féin were pro soviet USSR
At the 1976 Congress an ant soviet motion condemning repression was defeated.
Gilmore has Johnny Curran as his Education Officer


In 1976 OSF call the OIRA "Group B". OIRA are on ceasefire except for "defensive action" since 1969 split.

Gilmore now with a Sinn Féin the Workers Party has other SFWP pals Gerry Granger (president ) Education officer and Padrag Mannion (later Vice President) and John Ryan ( vice Pres).

By 1979 SFWP was losing control of students but the USI leadership is still under SFWP control. Gilmore moves to ITGWU Some others joining SFWP at this time secure ITGWU jobs as union bosses ironically having never worked in transport or as a general worker. Pat Rabbitte ( also a former USI President 72-74) is one of these SFWP recruits.

SFWP maintain links with USSR and China throught the 1980s doing courses at the Lenin summer School and meeting Chinese and Russian Communists in Moscow. Sean Garland and Des O hagan do this in 1987.

1979 OIRA get weapons from East Germany
1980 SFWP deny the OIRA exist.


(SFWP) became the Workers Party in 1982.


1983 Michael Noonan Minister for Justice confirms OIRA exist WP deny any connection to or knowledge of the existence of the OIRA

1984 WP printer REPSOL printing story on printing forged £5 notes.

1986 RTE Today Tonight report on OIRA connections to fraud and forgery

1986 Sunday Tribune edited by Vincent Browne story on OIRA rackets and criminal gangs in Dublin

At the 1990 WP Ard Fheis Oliver Donohue calls Gilmore and Rabitte the "Ceausescu Twins" for associating with students who had trained the secret police.

1992 British Spotlight programme on OIRA racketeering.

2009 OIRA opts to decommission.

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on
Group B - OIRA Racketeering and criminal activity
Soviet and Marxist Stalinist and Maoist links
Links with Saddam Hussein and Baathists
control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Most of the above comes fromn Hanely B and Millar S The Lost Revolution
The Story of the Official IRA and the Workers Party Penguin, Ireland,2009)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Revolution-Story-Official-Workers/dp/1844881202
I can provide page references later

ISAW

please edit title to include word "Unofficial IRA"

Nodin

ISAW wrote: »

control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

What?

Pete_Cavan

ISAW wrote: »

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on

You have a serious lack of links in your OP. You really should start the thread by providing links and proof, not going off on a rant and then inviting people to post links to back you up.

I am not a Labour or Gilmore fan but this is a bit ridiculous.

Cat Melodeon

In the interests of transparency I presume you are also going to do background checks on all the other candidates across all political parties? They all have a few contenders in there, I'm sure you'll want us to know about them too?

I would also like to see some links between Gilmore and these organisations that have existed within the past 20 years. I was anti-abortion when I was 16, have been actively campaigning on the pro-choice side for about 15 years now. People mature. Not if they keep their tinfoil hats on though...

Bottle_of_Smoke

I want FG to win with an overall majority but I think this is unnecessary scaremongering against Gilmore

He joined Official Sinn Fein linked group the UCG republican group in 1975. As you mentioned yourself the Official IRA movement split into the INLA/IRSP in 1974 the ones up for a military campaign went to them.

As for marxism he left for democratic left who were pro-free market so he's clearly not a marxist.

So no his history with the workers party has no influence on my opinion of labour. I can accept people change their views over time

bonkey

ISAW wrote: »

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Why?

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Maybe you could explain to us what effect you think it has first.

To me, it reads like a badly-interwoven history of the OIRA and history of Eamonn Gilmore. The whole thing is too nebulous and scraping in too many tenuously-related subjects to answer such a question.

That said, you (presumably) see the associations...you (presumably) know why you chose those points to add...you see a relevance, and a series of connections. In the interests of discussion, perhaps you could share with us your thoughts on the question you posed, as well as the associations you're trying to suggest or make in your post?

bonkey

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Not if they keep their tinfoil hats on though...

WE can do without that type of comment, thanks.

petroltimer

There was investigative program made by the BBC(panorama?) or ITV, which traced links to former members of the workers party who were allegedly laundering North Korean counterfeit U.S. Dollars.

These people would have been associates of Gilmore, I wonder did he hear about any of these alleged goings on??

Does anybody know the name or have a link to this program? it was aired about 6-8 years ago, i'd love to get the names of those accused and see what links they have to Eamon Gilmore.

RobbieTheRobber

petroltimer wrote: »

There was investigative program made by the BBC(panorama?) or ITV, which traced links to former members of the workers party who were allegedly laundering North Korean counterfeit U.S. Dollars.

These people would have been associates of Gilmore, I wonder did he hear about any of these alleged goings on??

Does anybody know the name or have a link to this program? it was aired about 6-8 years ago, i'd love to get the names of those accused and see what links they have to Eamon Gilmore.

What definition of the word associate are you using here?
It seems you are trying to implicate Gilmore in criminal activity, but I would define your usage of associate here more as "3. To connect in the mind or imagination:"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/associates

Dionysus

ISAW wrote: »

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

Here is some material to begin with

1969 Official IRA and SF split from Provisional IRA and SF


Eamon Gilmore
Caltra Co Galway
Garbally College Ballinasloe

Member UCG Republican Club - a name used by SF to get around the Emergency Powers Act.
UCG SU president July 1974- June 1975
Pat Rabbitte was USI President 72-74
USI President 1976-1978

INLA and IRSP founded in a split in 1974
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Fein_The_Workers_Party#IRSP.2FINLA_split_and_feud

By 1976 the 55,000 strong USI were controlled by Sinn Féin
Sinn Féin were pro soviet USSR
At the 1976 Congress an ant soviet motion condemning repression was defeated.
Gilmore has Johnny Curran as his Education Officer


In 1976 OSF call the OIRA "Group B". OIRA are on ceasefire except for "defensive action" since 1969 split.

Gilmore now with a Sinn Féin the Workers Party has other SFWP pals Gerry Granger (president ) Education officer and Padrag Mannion (later Vice President) and John Ryan ( vice Pres).

By 1979 SFWP was losing control of students but the USI leadership is still under SFWP control. Gilmore moves to ITGWU Some others joining SFWP at this time secure ITGWU jobs as union bosses ironically having never worked in transport or as a general worker. Pat Rabbitte ( also a former USI President 72-74) is one of these SFWP recruits.

SFWP maintain links with USSR and China throught the 1980s doing courses at the Lenin summer School and meeting Chinese and Russian Communists in Moscow. Sean Garland and Des O hagan do this in 1987.

1979 OIRA get weapons from East Germany
1980 SFWP deny the OIRA exist.


(SFWP) became the Workers Party in 1982.


1983 Michael Noonan Minister for Justice confirms OIRA exist WP deny any connection to or knowledge of the existence of the OIRA

1984 WP printer REPSOL printing story on printing forged £5 notes.

1986 RTE Today Tonight report on OIRA connections to fraud and forgery

1986 Sunday Tribune edited by Vincent Browne story on OIRA rackets and criminal gangs in Dublin

At the 1990 WP Ard Fheis Oliver Donohue calls Gilmore and Rabitte the "Ceausescu Twins" for associating with students who had trained the secret police.

1992 British Spotlight programme on OIRA racketeering.

2009 OIRA opts to decommission.

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on
Group B - OIRA Racketeering and criminal activity
Soviet and Marxist Stalinist and Maoist links
Links with Saddam Hussein and Baathists
control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

Obligatory: Does the above have an effect if any on Ireland and politics?

Most of the above comes fromn Hanely B and Millar S The Lost Revolution
The Story of the Official IRA and the Workers Party Penguin, Ireland,2009)

I can provide page references later

If this is the best you can do, Gilmore has nothing to fear. I'd say this is a pathetic attempt to defame a man, but that would imply there's something wrong with any of what you've said, which, despite your clear intentions, there isn't. Éamonn Gilmore is an honourable, decent man. The very many people from all political parties who know him can attest to this.

Shea O'Meara

ISAW wrote: »

This is a thread about links with and history of current and future Labour leadership with militant marxism, official IRA, militant anarchist and student groups etc.

Maybe it should be made into a "Sticky" timeline?

So, if this all points to underground shenanigans set in place decades ago to turn Ireland into some marxist/fascist shangrila for whackos...em, how do you explain the last few decades of the worst right wing corruption the state has ever seen?

Top of my head;
Haughey and the arm smuggling.
Haughey sending Lawlor to meet Saddam with an introductory letter from his excellency Charles Haughey.
Bertie claiming to be a socialist.
Bertie sending an FFail trade deligation, and going himself, to communist China.
Cowen and FFail destroying our country through personal gain/corruption.

Your thread is a joke.

Is this where FFail are taking this election run up when we need serious resolution to serious issues?

Wait! I found their Maoist little red book!!! http://www.labour.ie/manifesto

LOL, LOL indeed

paky

who gives a t.oss? Lots of students have extreme political views. Now hes part of Labour. so what? do you think people are not going to vote for him because of this? i've some respect for Gilmore saying this in public. At least he has some moral convictions.

UDAWINNER

im no labour supporter but i recognise anti-gilmore probaganda when i see it.

paky

if anything he should be applauded for his involvment in irelands independence campaign

KeithAFC

paky wrote: »

if anything he should be applauded for his involvment in irelands independence campaign

Which failed?

deise go deo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Which failed?

Depends on how you measure success. Most of Ireland is Independant.

I can't imagin many who signed the Ulster covenant in Blood being to Happy with the ammount of power nationalists have in NI today.


But this really belongs in the History section.

Monty Burnz

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I was anti-abortion when I was 16, have been actively campaigning on the pro-choice side for about 15 years now. People mature.

There's another Melodeon on another thread somewhere in the world saying that their views matured in the opposite direction.

whippet

what has history got to do with it !! ... Some of Gilmore & Rabbitte's mates from the Worker's Party and SFWP (Sean Garlandhave been linked with Super Dollars ...

But of course you can't be expected to be able to mention stuff like this because it was only their boss doing this :rolleyes:

Gilmore has been so nervous speaking about his past, even 'forgetting' dates and memberships, especially when pressed by Marion Finucane. IT Linky

Shouldn't a political leader be proud of his past?

He seems to think that dealings his wife had regarding huge sums of money paid over to her for school sites (when she was a senior member of a VEC) had nothing to do with him IT Linky .. Imagine the controversy if it was Brian Cowen's wife who did that deal :eek:


It seems that when you want to attack SF, FF or the Greens everything is fair game and nothing can be too harsh, but when you bring stuff like this up against FG or LAB you are accused of smearing, digging up irrelevance etc ...

clln

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

any chance Gilmore could be alerted to this to at least give him the right of reply?

whippet

clln wrote: »

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

any chance Gilmore could be alerted to this to at least give him the right of reply?

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

CoalBucket

whippet wrote: »

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

A character assassination is one thing, providing evidence is another. A serious lack of links bar to one dubious wikipedia link.

It's a bit of a joke tbh.

Come on OP lets see some proof or factual links to back up your claims

clln

whippet wrote: »

considering that just about every second thread is an assassination on some FF candidate .. it fits in nicely

well then let all parties have somebody working for them appoint a rep to reply here.it shows just how stale this GE is that they have not done so already.

any party that takes exception to something said on radio contacts the station within minutes!

whippet

CoalBucket wrote: »

A character assassination is one thing, providing evidence is another. A serious lack of links bar to one dubious wikipedia link.

It's a bit of a joke tbh.

Come on OP lets see some proof or factual links to back up your claims

actually, most of the stuff posted in the OP is quite well known, nothing hidden or secret about it.

Check out the links I posted ..

whippet

clln wrote: »

well then let all parties have somebody working for them appoint a rep to reply here.it shows just how stale this GE is that they have not done so already.

any party that takes exception to something said on radio contacts the station within minutes!

To react to every negative post here would need an army of full time 'activists' from each party, even the mods must be finding it like a full time job here at the moment.

clln

whippet wrote: »

To react to every negative post here would need an army of full time 'activists' from each party, even the mods must be finding it like a full time job here at the moment.

well slurp slurp:) i think the mods are really doing a great job on the information/misinformation overload on the GE.

boards is read by many voters,it is foolish of the parties to ignore it.
FF in particular need to wake up to the fact that Civil war politics mean nothing to young voters and the same young people have no sense of loyalty to them.

nesf

So, even if one accepts the OP as true, which I don't really (the dates are mostly accurate as far as I can see but I'm not seeing any evidence of Gilmore being linked to much of what's mentioned), doesn't this just boil down to simply a man being more radical in his youth mellowing with age and drifting more right?

Nodin

deise go deo wrote: »

Depends on how you measure success. Most of Ireland is Independant.

I can't imagin many who signed the Ulster covenant in Blood being to Happy with the ammount of power nationalists have in NI today.


But this really belongs in the History section.

Given the claims re control of RTE, perhaps not. Doubtless the OP will return to educate us further.

Shea O'Meara

whippet wrote: »

He seems to think that dealings his wife had regarding huge sums of money paid over to her for school sites (when she was a senior member of a VEC) had nothing to do with him IT Linky .. Imagine the controversy if it was Brian Cowen's wife who did that deal :eek:

Commrade, you can't post blatant falsehoods.
His wife, which I accept is him, joined at the hip wise, sold one plot of land at the going rate. The end.
The amout of FFailers pushing this one, making up 'the facts' as they go is getting boring.

whippet wrote: »

It seems that when you want to attack SF, FF or the Greens everything is fair game and nothing can be too harsh, but when you bring stuff like this up against FG or LAB you are accused of smearing, digging up irrelevance etc ...

See calling someone out on blatant wrong doing, backed up with facts, can be seen as attacking, but justifiably.
Smearing is attempting to put someone in a bad light using little or nothing and colouring it to a silly extent, due to lack of pressing and/or factual material.

Wolfe Tone

Based on the OPs previous posts he didn't pull this out of his arse and has good sources.

Shea O'Meara

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

How could you be both an anarchist and a Marxist? The two ideologies are on either sides of the Libertarian-Authoritarian spectrum.

You forgot the Student groups, they eat lil' puppies!:rolleyes:

ISAW

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

In the interests of transparency I presume you are also going to do background checks on all the other candidates across all political parties? They all have a few contenders in there, I'm sure you'll want us to know about them too?

This isn't a thread about Fianna Fáil or Provisional Sinn Féin or any others.

I would also like to see some links between Gilmore and these organisations that have existed within the past 20 years.

So you mean forget about anything before 1981?
I don't witness anyone doing that for Bin Laden Gerry Adams The Arms Trial etc. so I don't think Official IRA prior to 1991 are off limits or irrelevant.

I was anti-abortion when I was 16, have been actively campaigning on the pro-choice side for about 15 years now. People mature. Not if they keep their tinfoil hats on though...

So you claim that Gilmore was linked to the Official IRA and Marxism but just changed his mind? When did he tell everyone else about this?
By the way the claim that being for women being allowed abortion should they want one isn't necessarily a "more mature" position as having no abortion but this isn't a thread about abortion either.

Your basic point is still "we should forget about anything before 1991". This is just nonsensical. The last person to try that "year zero" lark was Pol Pot!

clln wrote: »

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

any chance Gilmore could be alerted to this to at least give him the right of reply?

I won't discuss my personal motivations for posting this thread here as they are not the subject of the thread either. I am happy to discuss them elsewhere. they are on record so I can prove I had the reasons before I posted the thread.
when you don't want to deal with the issues do you always resort to attacking the poster who outlines those issues?

clln wrote: »

I know boards does not fall under the rules broadcasters have to follow during a GE but really the OP seems to be intent on character destruction more than following the politics charter.

If you have a complaint about not following the charter then that isn't for discussion here either!
Nor are allegations of defamation or libel. I posted what is published and already available .

ISAW

nesf wrote: »

So, even if one accepts the OP as true, which I don't really (the dates are mostly accurate as far as I can see but I'm not seeing any evidence of Gilmore being linked to much of what's mentioned), doesn't this just boil down to simply a man being more radical in his youth mellowing with age and drifting more right?

Are you referring to Gerry Adams? That is not the person the thread is about. If you refer to Gilmore, where is your evidence of Gilmore saying he had no time for the OIRA or rejecting socialism or Marxism? I have posted evidence to people who held senior positions in organisations and secret membership of other organisations and denied the existence of the OIRA. Gilmore was one of a group of people who had links to "Group B" just as others are today accused of having links to the PIRA. But this isnt a thread about the others linked to the PIRA. It is about OIRA and people linked to them.

CoalBucket wrote: »

A character assassination is one thing, providing evidence is another. A serious lack of links bar to one dubious wikipedia link.

It's a bit of a joke tbh.

Come on OP lets see some proof or factual links to back up your claims

The book from which I source most of my references is added to the OP. I will supply more references as I get time to. I posted sources about a tenth of the material I have in print. Don't worry I can post loads more and will get around to it. Thanks for asking.

It isn't a joke. the authors didn't write the book for a joke. They are respected writers.

ISAW

clln wrote: »

well then let all parties have somebody working for them appoint a rep to reply here.it shows just how stale this GE is that they have not done so already.

any party that takes exception to something said on radio contacts the station within minutes!

Your suggestion that the Labour Party are not "managing the media" now to the best of their ability and getting media to support their bias even more is evidence which supports the double standards issue of "attack PIRA ignore OIRA" . and i havent even poisted the RTE sources and media control references yet!

ISAW

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Commrade, you can't post blatant falsehoods.
His wife, which I accept is him, joined at the hip wise, sold one plot of land at the going rate.

agreed at a "going rate" of under 100k and sold atter when the "going rate" had increased (due to FF policy that Labour were criticising at the time and in particular criticising the selling of inflated land to schoolks) of over 500k?

and then selling anothe plot to the same school for 10 k so they could park cars there?

the point about it is it clearly demonstrates she does not represent workers or marxism but represents the landed class of the bosses. Something many of the proles would not like.

The amout of FFailers pushing this one, making up 'the facts' as they go is getting boring.

Them's the facts above. going rate was five times the original going rate and inflated according to Labour due to FF policy! Criticise the policy but benefit personally from it. A bit like Enda "sitting TD's should not have pensions except when they are not FF TD's"
Kenny?

See calling someone out on blatant wrong doing, backed up with facts, can be seen as attacking, but justifiably.

It is not a question of wrong doing. It is a question of wearing siocialist clothes and looking for PBP votes and also being a millionaire benefitting from capitalist policies while criticising the same policies. No smoke without salmon.

Smearing is attempting to put someone in a bad light using little or nothing and colouring it to a silly extent, due to lack of pressing and/or factual material.

I'm not aware of Gilmore saying he rejected marxism and didn't represent working class people. Is it a case of "Do as I say don't do as I do"?

the fact is she made over 500k totally legally selling land to a school at about five timers what she had initally argeed to . the price went up because of delays in rezoning. at the same time Labour was critisising FF for supporting people who benefited by selling land to schools at inflated prices due to rezoning.

It isnt a moral right /wrong issue. It is a question of principles and whether you indicate when you change them.
I accept Gilmore in practice is far away from the working classes and marxist roots. The think is that they still want votes from such people. Joe Higgins made much the same statement about Bertie being a "socialist". Imagine for example of Gilmore's running mate realised there were a load of anti abortion votes in the constituency and claimed she was anti abortion and represented their view when in practice she doesn't?

Nodin

If you could get back to backing up the OP, preferably the 'control of RTE' bit.......

bonkey

ISAW wrote: »

the point about it is it clearly demonstrates she does not represent workers or marxism but represents the landed class of the bosses.

She is not the leader of the Labour party. Even were she, the Labour party does not represent Marxism.

I'm not aware of Gilmore saying he rejected marxism and didn't represent working class people.

Gilmore is the leader of a non-Marxist party. Is that not a pretty clear indication that he has tied his flag to something other then Marxism?

If not, then lets also bear in mind that Gilmore left the Workers Party to join The Deocratic Left when it was founded. DL was founded on a principle of acceptance of free market economics, as opposed to the Workers Party who remained committed to Marxist principles.

So...Gilmore did clearly reject marxism, and equally showed his support for free market economics...the very thing that his wife profited from, which you're criticising him for.

It is a question of principles and whether you indicate when you change them.

Gilmore is currently the leader of a non-Marxist party.
He was previously a member of a left-wing party which supported free market economics.

What greater indication could you have?

P. Breathnach

whippet wrote: »

...
He seems to think that dealings his wife had regarding huge sums of money paid over to her for school sites (when she was a senior member of a VEC) had nothing to do with him IT Linky ...

Your argument is premised on the idea that a wife be subservient to her husband.

And your "facts" are wrong, and the imputation of impropriety is serious to the point where it might be actionable.

dlofnep

Nearly every politician in Ireland has some direct link to some form of the IRA, or has a family member that was active in Ireland. This is a cheap pop at Gilmore. I don't vote for labour, and have intentions of doing so - but the intent of this thread is quite clear.

ISAW

dlofnep wrote: »

Nearly every politician in Ireland has some direct link to some form of the IRA, or has a family member that was active in Ireland. This is a cheap pop at Gilmore. I don't vote for labour, and have intentions of doing so - but the intent of this thread is quite clear.

Is it really?
If it is so clear how about you saying what it is?
I be happy to prove you wrong if you make a clear statement of what you think my intentions are but care to deal with the thread and not the intent behind it for the moment.

And it isn't only about Gilmore. It is about the Official IRA and Workers Party etc. and links to secret control of unions , forgery, racketeering etc.

It isn't about provisional IRA or about Provisional Sinn Féin or Fianna Fail or the PDs or the Green Party.

Nodin

ISAW wrote: »

Is it really?
If it is so clear how about you saying what it is?
I be happy to prove you wrong if you make a clear statement of what you think my intentions are but care to deal with the thread and not the intent behind it for the moment.

And it isn't only about Gilmore. It is about the Official IRA and Workers Party etc. and links to secret control of unions , forgery, racketeering etc.

It isn't about provisional IRA or about Provisional Sinn Féin or Fianna Fail or the PDs or the Green Party.

Are you going to back up your OP anytime soon?

dlofnep

ISAW wrote: »

Is it really?
If it is so clear how about you saying what it is?

Pre-election tarnishing. I thought that much was obvious. At least it is to the majority of the posters in this thread.

Wolfe Tone

Where SF really pro soviet USSR in the late 70s? I was under the impression they were not.

ISAW

Nodin wrote: »

Are you going to back up your OP anytime soon?

I gave the reference to the book.

Do you want page references?

dlofnep wrote: »

Nearly every politician in Ireland has some direct link to some form of the IRA, or has a family member that was active in Ireland.

But this isnt a thread about nearly every politician. it is about the Official IRA Workers Party communists etc. who became part of the establishment.

dlofnep wrote: »

Pre-election tarnishing. I thought that much was obvious. At least it is to the majority of the posters in this thread.

So you are saying i am trying to tarnish whom? I haven't gotten around to Harris yet who was a Fianna Fáil apointee to the Senate. Ironically I suppose he will be derided by the same people that say I am trying to tarnish others whom they support. It seems ther is a different standard for the ex commies who support Labour and for the ones that support anyone else e.g SF or Fianna Fáil.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

W[h]ere SF really pro soviet USSR in the late 70s? I was under the impression they were not.

Sovient links with OIRA 1976 - Anatoly Kaplan ambassodor in dublin guest at Davitt commemeration; Party members attend functions in Bulkgarian and Soviet embassies in Loindon; Sept - SF meet North Korean iofficials in Brussels; SF office opens in Rome to liase with Italian communists; linmks with Namibian SWAPO; SF links wiht cuba,Ghana, Vietnam ( Hanly book referenced in in the OP page 334)

Eamon Gilmore and Johnny Curann were then president and education officer of USI. Official SF had a motion challenging linkis with soviets defeated at the 1976 congress.
( same book page 326)

SFWP influence on Students executives ( p. 348)

I can quote from that page report their internal as they began to loise theri grip in 1979

The position of the party within the USI is strong in terms of powerThe Officer board and principal staff positions are filled by people who are , at least , sympathetic to the party position

People like Rabbitte who had such student positions of power had not yet joined the Party but subsequently did.

The report goes on to outline strategies for maintaining control over Students and using them for recruitment and training of left wing party members.

Later seventies SF influence with students also included Gerry granger, Padraig Mannion, John Ryan. while thy didnt have a mojority on the executive they could count on influence of other non party left wing student leaders sympathetic to them(page 348)

GArland (OIRA leader) visits Romania in oct. 1978 and SFWP buillkd relations with East German SUP.

SFWP leadership held the soviet party line. In 1979 Russia invaded Afghanistan. If they criticised imperialism they made sure to criticise US and Chinese imperialism in afghanistan.

In the 1980 SFWP form links with french communists, mourn Brezhnev's death, send congratulations to his successor Andropov (page 461)

nesf

People probably don't have a copy of the book ISAW, if you want to reference something you need to come up with references that we can all access and peruse. This isn't academics where book references are acceptable as a sole means of backing up your point.

CoalBucket

I agree with the OP, its all a lefty communist marxist beardy socialist terrorist labour republican plot to take over the world run by Gilmore himself.

I have a book that says it.

sligopark

petroltimer wrote: »

There was investigative program made by the BBC(panorama?) or ITV, which traced links to former members of the workers party who were allegedly laundering North Korean counterfeit U.S. Dollars.

Does anybody know the name or have a link to this program? it was aired about 6-8 years ago, i'd love to get the names of those accused and see what links they have to Eamon Gilmore.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3822005.stm

petroltimer wrote: »

These people would have been associates of Gilmore, I wonder did he hear about any of these alleged goings on??

yes he did

http://www.politics.ie/labour/146474-eamon-gilmore-opposed-extradition-elderly-comrade-sean-garland.html

bonkey

ISAW wrote: »

care to deal with the thread

I've already asked you to do just this...it being your thread and all. So far, you've ignored that request, so it seems a bit out of place for you to be making the same request of others.

And it isn't only about Gilmore. It is about the Official IRA and Workers Party etc. and links to secret control of unions , forgery, racketeering etc.

Maybe you could explain why its about both. The two are - thus far - no more then tangentially related by anything, so one really does have to wonder at the point of starting a thread about both.

It isn't about provisional IRA or about Provisional Sinn Féin or Fianna Fail or the PDs or the Green Party.

Rather then selecting a small handful of the infinite things its not about, why don't you tell us what the thread is about, ISAW? Is it about multiple vaguely-related topics? Is it about some as-yet-unestablished relationship which makes it all one valid topic?

What are you trying to discuss???

Nodin

ISAW wrote: »

I gave the reference to the book.

Do you want page references?

In your OP you stated

I will post more and welcome links or will incorporate material on
Group B - OIRA Racketeering and criminal activity
Soviet and Marxist Stalinist and Maoist links
Links with Saddam Hussein and Baathists
control of RTE and media outlets
and Secret membership control of unions and students groups similar to their control in RTE.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70593064&postcount=1

I'm particularily interested in the allegations in relation to RTE.

ISAW

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

So, if this all points to underground shenanigans set in place decades ago to turn Ireland into some marxist/fascist shangrila for whackos...em, how do you explain the last few decades of the worst right wing corruption the state has ever seen?

Top of my head;
Haughey and the arm smuggling.
Haughey sending Lawlor to meet Saddam with an introductory letter from his excellency Charles Haughey.
Bertie claiming to be a socialist.
Bertie sending an FFail trade deligation, and going himself, to communist China.
Cowen and FFail destroying our country through personal gain/corruption.

LOL! But this thread is not about them it is about the official IRA workers party commies etc.

Your thread is a joke.

You might possibly be on to something there. I expected that when i started it that
- people would immediately attack me instead of addressing the topic
- claim it was an orchastrated smear campaign
-claim it was irrelevant
- claim that others did similar things and thy to change the topic to discussing the others

Ironically the same mindset will post things about the Church, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, and when someoine else says "but Labour/Workers Party/lefties" did similar they will claim it isnt about the others.

I predicted all this would happen and it did.

Is this where FFail are taking this election run up when we need serious resolution to serious issues?

LOL tick the box of "orchestrated by FF" above

This discussion is entirely of my own making and people were told abou
t it and the predictions made in advance of what would happen if I posted it.

ISAW

Nodin wrote: »

I'm particularily interested in the allegations in relation to RTE.

1971 the Officials set up a Republican trade Union Group in ITGWU
Des Geraghty is a key operator
The make moves on RTE
Eoghan is chair of Workers Group of Ireland Branch at RTE
He appeared on the Late Late show and denounced the EEC
He is involved in Feedback and internal RTE leftie magasine
Also invlved with him are John Caden and Ferghal Costello and Oliver Donohoe ( whio was in The Labour Party but is symopathetic to Official Sinn Féin ( Lost revolution page 243)

Official IRA involved ion bombings in north Tipperary Martin O Leary OIRA man electrocuted during bombing. Cathal Goulding arrested and charged. OIRA try to rig the Jury by getting addresses through tenants associations and intimidating them. ( page 243-4)

Republican Industrial Intelligence Division ridd connected with some RTE people sets up anti EEC station in Dublin. (paGE 247)

tHE nED sTAPELTOIN CUMANN in RTE is a secret cumann to which this type of activity is being reported. Harris and Donohoe are members
(page 276)

In the early 1980s Ned Stapelton cumman (NSC) are active in RTE. They begin to lose control of WUI RTE branch due to infighting with NUJ "trots and provos" ( page 371-2)

NUJ is not without SFWP people. Padraig Yeates, Gerry Flynn, Paddy Woodsworth, are viewed with suspiscion by NSC some NUJ in RTE who are sympathetic with "stickies" include Charlie Bird, Patrick Kinsella and rodney Rice ( page 372-3)


today tonight comes on air in late 80s and SFWO sympathisers are involved Trish Barry, Joe Mulholland, ( keen Marxist and pal of Sean Garland) who recruits NSC members to the show - Gerry Gregg, Barry O Haloran, Joe Little, David Blake Knox, Una Claffey
( page 373)


That's about a third of the RTE stuff - more later