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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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  • #752
    DublinSpark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭DublinSpark


    takun wrote: »
    I am sure you meant to say 'innocent Catholics and Protestants' there, but leaving that aside....

    I think we know why they were released. However that it was a cause for celebration to see convicted murderers, of anyone, released is a different thing. It is also a different thing when the killing of a Garda, who when going about his or her duties is in effect acting as a representative of the state - that would be us - cannot be condemned without reservation.


    Yes innocent catholic, protestant, whatever it doesnt matter. The killings of the Garda was horribly wrong but so were many thousands inthe north and their killers got released. So you have to either say you accept the GFA and so they are entitled to get released or you dont accept it in order to keep them inside. Its actually black and white.

    By the way SF will be gettign about my 6th preference after labour, peoPle before profit and FG


  • #753
    ianuss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭ianuss


    cniriain wrote: »
    Ianuss - I would like to ask you the source of YOUR information. what makes your info right and Sinn Fein's wrong??


    I'm not running for office, I don't need to sell my views to anyone.


  • #754
    DublinSpark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭DublinSpark


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Leaving aside the issue of their release, it is absolutely repulsive that a member of our parliament would greet cop killers upon their release from prison. I would be ashamed if a party who accepts people like this was to form part of our government.


    Thats a fair enough point which I respect. My issue earlier wasthat they had to be released no matter how repulsive. The scenes outside didnt have to happen however.


  • #755
    ianuss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭ianuss


    David not censored wrote: »
    Hi all, just new in .... :D

    I see a lot of SF bashing, but i am not seeing a lot suggestion on how this country deals with the 230 billion debt mentioned one one Vincent Browne show last night, that the other parties are advocating we take on?
    Will Ireland keep pumping money into the failed-banks, or let them fail like any normal business and open the country up for international banks to come in and start the credit moving in the country again?
    Has anyone explained how the country should finance the 11 billion a year in interest repayments mentioned on the same show last night?
    It seems like we are all debating the wrong issue, and not looking at the bigger picture of how the country is going to make these interest repayments. Outside of SF, are any other parties advocating reneging on these interest repayments belonging to the banks and not the people of this great country of ours? These are the questions that genuinely need to be answered.


    Well, tbf, I'm sure that debate is going on in another thread. This one is questioning whether or not you would vote for SF.


  • #756
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ianuss wrote: »
    I'm not running for office, I don't need to sell my views to anyone.


    But you have no hestitation in posting them but when asked for your source you don't provide same. Hmmm..


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  • #757
    takun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 173 ✭✭takun


    DublinSpark wrote: »
    So you have to either say you accept the GFA and so they are entitled to get released or you dont accept it in order to keep them inside. Its actually black and white.

    Yes, I agree, it is a black and white issue. I can't say I was overjoyed at any convicted murders getting a release, which ever cause they espoused or whoever their victims. But unfortunately it had to be accepted.

    However the reaction to the release of the killer of a guard is not a black and white issue. Celebration of it as though he were some type of a hero is completely inappropriate. Refusing to condemn his crime is also unacceptable to me.

    I could never, ever vote for a party that treats murderers as heros. I honestly don't care what else they say, although I happen to disagree with a lot of that also.


  • #758
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,360 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    David not censored wrote: »
    Hi all, just new in .... :D

    I see a lot of SF bashing, but i am not seeing a lot suggestion on how this country deals with the 230 billion debt mentioned one one Vincent Browne show last night, that the other parties are advocating we take on?
    Will Ireland keep pumping money into the failed-banks, or let them fail like any normal business and open the country up for international banks to come in and start the credit moving in the country again?
    Has anyone explained how the country should finance the 11 billion a year in interest repayments mentioned on the same show last night?
    It seems like we are all debating the wrong issue, and not looking at the bigger picture of how the country is going to make these interest repayments. Outside of SF, are any other parties advocating reneging on these interest repayments belonging to the banks and not the people of this great country of ours? These are the questions that genuinely need to be answered.

    With out going too far off topic, our national debt as a percentage of GDP and our unemployment rate have both been higher than they currently are as recent as the early 1990's. One thing is for sure, we will not be able to repay debts or borrow on the bond markets if we tell all our major trading partners to p*ss off, as SF seem determined to do.


  • #759
    ianuss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭ianuss


    Kasabian wrote: »
    But you have no hestitation in posting them but when asked for your source you don't provide same. Hmmm..


    My initial point was in reference to their "€7b Job Creation Fund" and the hope they seem to have that this will somehow reinvigorate the economy. It's all a bit too simplistic IMO.


  • #760
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ianuss wrote: »
    My initial point was in reference to their "€7b Job Creation Fund" and the hope they seem to have that this will somehow reinvigorate the economy. It's all a bit too simplistic IMO.

    Sometimes simplicity can be the most effective. ;)


  • #761
    ianuss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭ianuss


    Kasabian wrote: »
    Sometimes simplicity can be the most effective. ;)

    LOL.

    Seriously, I know you included the wink an' all, but we're talking about running a country, not a sweet shop.


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  • #762
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Kasabian wrote: »
    Sometimes simplicity can be the most effective. ;)



    The problem is it won't be very effective when they've already spend the €7bn on trying to cover our deficit.


  • #763
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    With out going too far off topic, our national debt as a percentage of GDP and our unemployment rate have both been higher than they currently are as recent as the early 1990's.

    Yes. I'm disappointed that I don't hear more of this from FG, but it's a hard message to sell: 10 or 15 years hard work and sensible government can get us out of this.

    This is why SF's fairy gold plan looks tempting, especially to celtic tiger brats who don't remember the 80s, hair shirts, Tallaght strategies, belt-tightening and so on.

    I mean, there has to be something easier than a decade of hard work, right? Where's my magic wand?


  • #764
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    ianuss wrote: »
    LOL.

    Seriously, I know you included the wink an' all, but we're talking about running a country, not a sweet shop.

    Actually mean't to post this guy. :rolleyes:.

    The sweet shop is empty, Brian ate all the chocolate.


  • #765
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes. I'm disappointed that I don't hear more of this from FG, but it's a hard message to sell: 10 or 15 years hard work and sensible government can get us out of this.

    This is why SF's fairy gold plan looks tempting, especially to celtic tiger brats who don't remember the 80s, hair shirts, Tallaght strategies, belt-tightening and so on.

    I mean, there has to be something easier than a decade of hard work, right? Where's my magic wand?

    what you really mean is 10-15 years of poverty , high unemployment , high emigration , lack of services , and all the social consequences of this on peoples lives and family's , of course you may be part of the elite in this country who wont be affected by this and who like in the 50s and the 80s are glad to see the hopes of change in this country leave its shores .same old same old


  • #766
    Kasabian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes. I'm disappointed that I don't hear more of this from FG, but it's a hard message to sell: 10 or 15 years hard work and sensible government can get us out of this.

    This is why SF's fairy gold plan looks tempting, especially to celtic tiger brats who don't remember the 80s, hair shirts, Tallaght strategies, belt-tightening and so on.

    I mean, there has to be something easier than a decade of hard work, right? Where's my magic wand?

    I am not going to spend the next 15 years in this country paying for the sheer fcuk ups of a percieved elite.


  • #767
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Re: Murder of Garda Jerry Mc Cabe
    The Army Council of the IRA initially denied involvement, but later admitted that individual members were involved "in contravention of its orders". Later Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams would state that the operation was "not authorised by the Army Council, but authorised at a lower level by an authorised person".[4][8] Initially, the killing was denounced by the leadership of Sinn Féin, but later the party lobbied for the early release of McCabe's killers under the terms of the Belfast Agreement.[8] In 2005, the prisoners stated that they did not want their release "to be part of any further negotiations with the Irish government

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #768
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,360 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    David not censored wrote: »
    Interesting input, but i saw a current affairs program last night and they had an econmosit on it (Vincent Browne program), that said our National Debt when all totalled is twice what it was in the dark days of the 1980's and at that time (1980's) we did not have a Banking Crises, a housing market in decline, and a host of other factors going on globally, which is impacting us.

    Our national debt may have doubled but the size of our economy has also increased hugely in that time as well. We did not have the MNCs, a very strong export sector, an attractive corpo tax rate and the educated workforce.
    David not censored wrote: »
    So how much lower can we go, and how much worse can SF do, than the current shower in there.

    SF can do a lot worse, with their plan we will be out of money by next year. We will be frozen out of the bond markets (due to default), no IMF money (they want to tell them to f*ck off) and the NPRF will be gone (with no chance to spend it on a stimulus package). So no money to pay public servants, social welfare payments, etc.


  • #769
    takun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 173 ✭✭takun


    I don't know if you were around in the '80s? I was, it was the decade when I started working and let me tell you what it was like:
    danbohan wrote: »
    10-15 years of poverty , high unemployment , high emigration , lack of services , and all the social consequences of this on peoples lives and family's

    It was not easy, but not all misery either in the midst of it. It was all there was, you could struggle with it and take it, or go and leave it behind. I chose to stay. I started a (very) small business, which grew very very slowly and eventually employed 6 people as well as me, and provided them all with training in a skilled area.

    I was paid about half of what they were for the first 10-12 years, because I was constantly (with varying degrees of hope) waiting for the day around the corner where there would not just be the satisfaction of doing a good job but a bit of money too. I lived for that time in a one bedroomed flat (definitely NOT an apartment) over the business. It was hard, but as I say, not all misery - I worked with great people and we all loved what we did.

    So yes, we may well have to struggle though another decade or more like that, whether we like it or not, because life is sh*t and nobody ever said it was fair. But it cannot now, as it could not then, be magicked away. There is NO quick way, NO easy way, NO magic.

    I just hope the next time we pull ourselves though (and we will, eventually) we won't fcuk it up the way we did the last time.


  • #770
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    danbohan wrote: »
    what you really mean is 10-15 years of poverty , high unemployment , high emigration , lack of services , and all the social consequences of this on peoples lives and family's

    Yes, we are indeed in the sh!te, nor have we seen the bottom of the pan or turned the U-bend yet.

    But guess what: there's only one way out, and it isn't SFs fairy gold scheme.


  • #771
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    takun wrote: »
    I don't know if you were around in the '80s? I was, it was the decade when I started working and let me tell you what it was like:



    It was not easy, but not all misery either in the midst of it. It was all there was, you could struggle with it and take it, or go and leave it behind. I chose to stay. I started a (very) small business, which grew very very slowly and eventually employed 6 people as well as me, and provided them all with training in a skilled area.

    I was paid about half of what they were for the first 10-12 years, because I was constantly (with varying degrees of hope) waiting for the day around the corner where there would not just be the satisfaction of doing a good job but a bit of money too. I lived for that time in a one bedroomed flat (definitely NOT an apartment) over the business. It was hard, but as I say, not all misery - I worked with great people and we all loved what we did.

    So yes, we may well have to struggle though another decade or more like that, whether we like it or not, because life is sh*t and nobody ever said it was fair. But it cannot now, as it could not then, be magicked away. There is NO quick way, NO easy way, NO magic.

    I just hope the next time we pull ourselves though (and we will, eventually) we won't fcuk it up the way we did the last time.

    we won't fcuk it up the way we did the last time.


    we did not , they did ie the politicans and the elite /bankers /developers/ etc etc and for sure they will again , because its going be the same trash and their grandkids ruling this country in 2035 as it always was and the irish are doing what they always did psss off somewhere quietly ,


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  • #772
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    David not censored wrote: »
    With FF/FG we are 100% guaranteed to be putting the low corporate tax rate up for grabs with Europe in return for more loans from the EU. Sarkozy has already clearly laid out his plan to link the EU loan money to changing the corporate tax rules in Ireland... that means we will be in major trouble (lot of unemployment because the multi-national corps will leave).
    SF have committed to keeping the Corporate Tax rate at 12.5% no matter what. Anyone who doesnt believe this, should check it out for themselves.
    It is scary that the French can tell us we must change our corporate tax rate, which will screw this country like nothing else in our short history. Never mind what the English did in the 700 years they were visiting here.... We would be better handing the Keys of the country back to the English, if the French get their way.... Only one way to ensure the low corporate tax rate is off the table, and that is to tell the EU to shove their money where the sun dont shine, if they try to blackmail us into chaing it.

    This is funny

    It's funny because SF are the only party in the recent past (past decade) who advocated INCREASING Corporation Tax - nobody else did and all are committed to maintaining it at 12.5%

    Now there are the guardian angels of our low corp rate - hilarious


  • #773
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    David not censored is a suspected re-reg of Cal Egle, and has thus been permanently banned. Just so you know there's no point responding to him. :)

    /mod.


  • #774
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    takun wrote: »
    I don't know if you were around in the '80s? I was, it was the decade when I started working and let me tell you what it was like:



    It was not easy, but not all misery either in the midst of it. It was all there was, you could struggle with it and take it, or go and leave it behind. I chose to stay. I started a (very) small business, which grew very very slowly and eventually employed 6 people as well as me, and provided them all with training in a skilled area.

    I was paid about half of what they were for the first 10-12 years, because I was constantly (with varying degrees of hope) waiting for the day around the corner where there would not just be the satisfaction of doing a good job but a bit of money too. I lived for that time in a one bedroomed flat (definitely NOT an apartment) over the business. It was hard, but as I say, not all misery - I worked with great people and we all loved what we did.

    So yes, we may well have to struggle though another decade or more like that, whether we like it or not, because life is sh*t and nobody ever said it was fair. But it cannot now, as it could not then, be magicked away. There is NO quick way, NO easy way, NO magic.

    I just hope the next time we pull ourselves though (and we will, eventually) we won't fcuk it up the way we did the last time.

    i agree with you , but if we are going to have do all of that crayp again and worse ,we should at least make sure that the people at the top ie politicians etc are made pay for their actions and that means jail for a very very long time , but no we are going elect more of the same in fine gael / labour . the irish seem to have a penchant for self flagellation


  • #775
    Xclusiv Barber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Xclusiv Barber


    As someone who is open to allcomers and having voted FF before, i'll at least listen to Fianna fail propaganda at my door before setting the dogs on them. Here's the dicotomy for me anyway, that things aren't black and white, and age and experience and tough life lessons thanks to the state teach me this. It just so happens that there is a fantastic workhorse in my constituency, and he may have turned up to collect gerry mc cabes cowardly b@stard murderers, but genuinely tries so hard in person to deal with every issue his constituents have, as i've personally experienced. martin ferris i'll be voting for, who happens to be SF. So addressing the thread question will i vote SF Yes i will. Because it works for me at my level with my wife my children my salon that i run by myself which i didn't emigrate to open. (FIVE shops have closed near me in the last week) BUT................. Will we benefit if, lets say, SF ran the whole country, in terms longer than looking at next 12months, no i dont believe so. i'm (very) old, enough to know the difference between a liar (FF FG GREEN) and a, in part genuine political ideology (SF LAB &Socialist party) which on a national level doesn't go far enough, the numbers do not add up, its too short sighted, and you can't just agitate for change and plunder tomorrows money to plug todays holes. So what do you do eh? Its all varying degrees of, as the electorate, being totally fu(ked if we do and fu(ked if we dont


  • #776
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    danbohan wrote: »
    we are going elect more of the same in fine gael / labour .

    No, we're going to elect the opposition. The people who have been opposed to FF and their policies for the last 14 years. The people who criticized FF for all the stuff that landed us here.

    Why do you think that they are corrupt, reckless, in the pockets of developers and the worst sort of financial speculator?


  • #777
    Xclusiv Barber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Xclusiv Barber


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    No, we're going to elect the opposition. The people who have been opposed to FF and their policies for the last 14 years. The people who criticized FF for all the stuff that landed us here.

    Why do you think that they are corrupt, reckless, in the pockets of developers and the worst sort of financial speculator?

    very fair point. Lets face it, every other party aside for a sec, given the last 14years and where its brought us to, armageddon, at least FG can't do any worse, can they..... erm...... ? (tumbleweeds rolling by....)


  • #778
    joesoap007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭joesoap007


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Our national debt may have doubled but the size of our economy has also increased hugely in that time as well. We did not have the MNCs, a very strong export sector, an attractive corpo tax rate and the educated workforce.



    SF can do a lot worse, with their plan we will be out of money by next year. We will be frozen out of the bond markets (due to default), no IMF money (they want to tell them to f*ck off) and the NPRF will be gone (with no chance to spend it on a stimulus package). So no money to pay public servants, social welfare payments, etc.

    were did you learn this on rte???.the euro is sinking no??well it is and when the EU sinks what then? what is the plan lads?? the banks have not changed.

    oh and our bail out will be paid in sdr and we pay back in cash,,,,this whole thing is over a failed giant ponzi scheme

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFHgcFlrlw


  • #779
    JRH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭JRH


    Why on earth does Sinn Fein still feel the need to sell IRA T-shirts ,
    Tiocfaidh ar la badges and all the nonsence on the Official Sinn Fein website .

    Does it mean nothing to you 'new' sinn fein voters .

    If the torcherers of Jean McConville are out puting up posters for Adams is that OK with you also ..


  • #780
    Davypat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭Davypat


    andrewire wrote: »
    SF are a bunch of clueless demagogues. Their economic policies would destroy this country in one week. First, we wouldn't even have money to pay our current liabilities, including civil servants' wages. Second, they don't seem to understand that we are already in this mess and even if the common Irish person didn't cause it, we need a strategy to get out of it. Spending has to be cut to bring deficit under control, etc. but they don't understand this. The only SF policy is saying NO to everything.

    Who got us in the mess??? Not the workers, sick or old age pensioners!!!!


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  • #781
    joesoap007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭joesoap007


    JRH wrote: »
    Why on earth does Sinn Fein still feel the need to sell IRA T-shirts ,
    Tiocfaidh ar la badges and all the nonsence on the Official Sinn Fein website .

    Does it mean nothing to you 'new' sinn fein voters .

    If the torcherers of Jean McConville are out puting up posters for Adams is that OK with you also ..
    tshirts lol.its a way of making money,it could be worse they could be stealing money from us like FF.Tiocfaidh ar la is a saying used all over the world from ireland all the to east timor


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