Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

gigino · 06-02-2011 01:52AM

The taxes the private sector pay go towards government expenditure. They are net contributers. Something like 11,000 per household according to primetime during the week. The public sector are net benefactors of government expenditure. When we receive our salaries, we give a bit back to the government. Its the same as if they gave us the net amount in the beginning.

Now, anyone care to answer the following ? A one word answer to each will suffice.

(A) Do you really think the average public servant in Louth should be paid over TWENTY grand a year more than the average public sector worker in N. Ireland ?

(B) Who do you think has the higher standard of living ?

(C) I know a lot of public servants here have investment property loans and holiday homes etc to maintain / pay off, but does that justify the huge difference ? Average public sector annual wage of over € 47 grand a year here after the pay cuts, compared to £ 22 grand a year public sector salary in the UK ? Bear in mind our country is in receivership, and borrowing from the IMF / EU ( inc the UK ).

The_Thing · 06-02-2011 03:11AM

Ah, Jimmy\Japer\gigino\<Insert New Name Here Jan 2012>, come off it will ya? Your're talking the same old begrudging bull**** and qouting averages as you usually do.

You'd probably start another whingeing thread here if a public-sector worker won the lottery.

n900guy · 06-02-2011 03:22AM

gigino wrote: »

.... The public sector are net benefactors of government expenditure.....

While of course, providing a public service. If you can do without police, schooling, hospitals, then please explain. The public service is the public service. Thankfully we don't live in the wild west (yet).

The question is how much are you paying to have that public service and if it is of value to you. Chances are, as many in Ireland think, they value Sky Sports over hospitals so bitch about a nurse making 30k and wonder why they are broke paying Rupert Murdoch 100 a month.

You do not expect Sandinavian services while cutting people's salaries in half and ridiculing police, doctors, etc., every day for 2 years in the national press.

gigino · 06-02-2011 01:53PM

n900guy wrote: »

While of course, providing a public service. If you can do without police, schooling, hospitals, then please explain. The public service is the public service. Thankfully we don't live in the wild west (yet)..

Nobody wants to live in the wild west. However, the thing that puzzles many people is how public services can be as good, if not better, in the UK when they pay their public servants so much ? On a skiing holiday recently I met and got to know some public servants from the north, and they really opened my eyes and are amazed at our southern levels of pay etc. With our Irish economy in the state its in, and the EU / IMF here, do you think the Irish taxpayer is getting value for money by paying us, the public servants, over twenty grand a year more on average than in the UK ? Will our economy ever climb out of the hole its in while thats the case ?

n900guy wrote: »

The question is how much are you paying to have that public service and if it is of value to you. Chances are, as many in Ireland think, they value Sky Sports over hospitals so bitch about a nurse making 30k and wonder why they are broke paying Rupert Murdoch 100 a month.

I never defended anyone paying Sky 100 a month. Through our taxes and VHI, most of us pay enough for our hospitals. As someone else said though, you can employ two consultants in Germany for the price of one consultant in Ireland. Can our economy ever recover while this is the case ?

n900guy wrote: »

You do not expect Sandinavian services while cutting people's salaries in half and ridiculing police, doctors, etc., every day for 2 years in the national press.

I am not saying our salaries should be cut in half. However I am willing to take a cut in my salary for the good of the country, if it means the country will recover quicker. I do not want the day when even thr IMF will not lend to us. There has to be some reality. Those higher up should take the greatest hit. Of course the bankers should be reformed and regulated much better, with their pay controlled too and those responsible for the mess held accountable.
There is a certain amount of jealousy in the country against the pay in the public service and I have heard comments like "well for some", "no recession there "etc. The papers just reflect the national mood. A lot of people have lost their incomes and jobs, and a lot have lost their savings, and a lot are emigrating. We all have to move back to our income levels of the pre-boom days.

dissed doc · 06-02-2011 05:13PM

gigino wrote: »

I never defended anyone paying Sky 100 a month. Through our taxes and VHI, most of us pay enough for our hospitals. As someone else said though, you can employ two consultants in Germany for the price of one consultant in Ireland. Can our economy ever recover while this is the case ?

I read this again and again and that is just not true. Net salaries in Germany and Ireland are comparable, after tax within 10%. Oberarzt salaries in Germany are around €120k and consultants in Ireland are €155k. Ireland has higher taxes on that, making after tax income the same - use any online calculator to check; throw on state healthcare instead of VHI and you are doing better in germany. There is a reason why if these "double" salaries are in Ireland, no-one is flocking from the other 26 EU countries to ireland, right? Jobs are advertised, but there are no applicants.

It's not even about salaries (which in my experience in Ireland are lower considerably than other western european countries when you put in cost of living, and taxation) - there is no culture in Ireland of the state providing a true state healthcare service. The applications of medical jobs in Ireland is and has been for years opened up the entire EU workforce. It is competency based, and heavily regulated to ensure fairness. The medical council is run by non-doctors and has been for years.

There is no "double salary" in Ireland for consultants. Hence why there are so few consultants working publicly or privately in Ireland.

Check the job sites, check the online tax calculators and you will see that it's simply not worth the hassle of working in Ireland considering it's healthcare policies. We are as said above, a "wild west" in terms of social services development.

WalterMitty · 06-02-2011 06:24PM

dissed doc wrote: »

I read this again and again and that is just not true. Net salaries in Germany and Ireland are comparable, after tax within 10%. Oberarzt salaries in Germany are around €120k and consultants in Ireland are €155k. Ireland has higher taxes on that, making after tax income the same - use any online calculator to check; throw on state healthcare instead of VHI and you are doing better in germany. There is a reason why if these "double" salaries are in Ireland, no-one is flocking from the other 26 EU countries to ireland, right? Jobs are advertised, but there are no applicants.

It's not even about salaries (which in my experience in Ireland are lower considerably than other western european countries when you put in cost of living, and taxation) - there is no culture in Ireland of the state providing a true state healthcare service. The applications of medical jobs in Ireland is and has been for years opened up the entire EU workforce. It is competency based, and heavily regulated to ensure fairness. The medical council is run by non-doctors and has been for years.

There is no "double salary" in Ireland for consultants. Hence why there are so few consultants working publicly or privately in Ireland.

Check the job sites, check the online tax calculators and you will see that it's simply not worth the hassle of working in Ireland considering it's healthcare policies. We are as said above, a "wild west" in terms of social services development.

Dont foreign consultants have to register in ireland and do exams here first? People have their lives established in country by time they become a consultant so even if greater pay is on offer abroad they are unlikely to move.
The german consultant also gets a lot more public services than the irish one for his/her lower overall tax contribution.
Anyway its irrelevant , we cant afford to pay german rates really as we are not a rich economic powerhouse like germany . We are a debt riden medium level economy.

sollar · 06-02-2011 06:44PM

dissed doc wrote: »

There is no "double salary" in Ireland for consultants. Hence why there are so few consultants working publicly or privately in Ireland.

Why don't we train more irish consultants. Is it because G.P's here can make up to €400,000 a year or more - why would any of them bother training as consultants.

Allow more people into medical school and let competition reduce the money G.P's can make. Maybe more would be interested in going down the consultant route then.

motherriley · 06-02-2011 07:54PM

It seems that the Irish government followed the UK and locked itself into using the Keynesian theory by employing hoards of public sector workers when this theory has been shown to be almost a self-destruct button.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=277

dissed doc · 06-02-2011 10:18PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

Dont foreign consultants have to register in ireland and do exams here first? People have their lives established in country by time they become a consultant so even if greater pay is on offer abroad they are unlikely to move.
The german consultant also gets a lot more public services than the irish one for his/her lower overall tax contribution.
Anyway its irrelevant , we cant afford to pay german rates really as we are not a rich economic powerhouse like germany . We are a debt riden medium level economy.

You have to register of course which is a legal requirement in any country; the recognition of specialist qualifications for that registration is automatic across all EU countries and has been since 2005 (Directive 2005/36/EC). A doctor who wants to work as a consultant in ireland need only prove they are EU citizens (or EEA), and have gained training as a specialist for automatic mutual recognition of training.

I agree RE: Ireland cannot afford services to the level that germany can. Or, we cannot afford to run a public health service when money is diverted to bank bailouts, for example. There is a state income, small as it is from either bonds or exports: the money should be going to education, health and development of society IMO.

dissed doc · 06-02-2011 10:22PM

sollar wrote: »

Why don't we train more irish consultants. Is it because G.P's here can make up to €400,000 a year or more - why would any of them bother training as consultants.

Allow more people into medical school and let competition reduce the money G.P's can make. Maybe more would be interested in going down the consultant route then.

It takes around 15 years to train a medical specialist in any particular field. That is a lot of investment by any country. Ireland has chosen to train a limited amount - but does not match numbers of people trained to expected work requirements. Indeed, the current generation of graduated specialists, will most likely all emigrate due to failure of HSE policy to actually view doctors as a necessity to providing a health service. Hence, why I think the HSE has no interest whatsoever in providing a state healthcare system, as otherwise like e.g., Norway, Denmark, german states, they would be saying "we need x number of doctors in y speciality for z amount of patients. let's hire them or train them". Ireland does nto do this. The UK does this as well - they have requirements to meet service needs. Ireland HSE policy never states how many specialists are needed, for any area of need. Therefore, providing the service is not a Mission Statement of the HSE.

GPs do not make €400k a year. A shared practice between 2-3 doctors might gross that before expenses (e.g., nurses, clerical work, premises, rent, etc., ). GPs and primary care are the backbone of any proper state or socially-funded healthcare system. Medical school in Ireland has hundreds of places - you only need to pass exams to get in, and it's for free (for the moment - that will change rapidly within 24 months). It is a lottery in many other EU countries if you get a place or not - despite passing the requirements. Int he 1960-1970s in Ireland, it was easy as hell to get into medical school, but then 2/3rds of the class would drop out due to difficulty after Premed because they wouldn't/couldn't proceed. At the end of the day, there are competencies, long training, and it is expensive and time consuming. State healthcare or state regulated is a function of a developed society IMO; Ireland has chose to not follow this.

fliball123 · 07-02-2011 10:30AM

avoidspammers wrote: »

Again, can you please explain what you mean by saying that "your taxes.......". It's as if you are assuming that I am a Public Servant??

A.S.

You are argueing symantics now..If you not p.s I am sorry for assuming it. But it does not change the fact that ps tax take does not go to pay any proportion of my wage which is the point I was making and the one you are trying to deflect from

fliball123 · 07-02-2011 10:38AM

n900guy wrote: »

While of course, providing a public service. If you can do without police, schooling, hospitals, then please explain. The public service is the public service. Thankfully we don't live in the wild west (yet).

The question is how much are you paying to have that public service and if it is of value to you. Chances are, as many in Ireland think, they value Sky Sports over hospitals so bitch about a nurse making 30k and wonder why they are broke paying Rupert Murdoch 100 a month.

You do not expect Sandinavian services while cutting people's salaries in half and ridiculing police, doctors, etc., every day for 2 years in the national press.

So are you trying to say that we adequete services here...thats a laugh..Guys 2 reasons why the private sector have such a beef ..Is firstly we feel we are not getting value for money. I mean how many different scandals has there been in the last 10 years in the p.s ..Now I do aggree some do a very good job. Secondly the money isnt there to sustain the wage bill. As I said before I wish it was but it isnt

Monife · 07-02-2011 08:22PM

fliball123 wrote: »

You are argueing symantics now..If you not p.s I am sorry for assuming it. But it does not change the fact that ps tax take does not go to pay any proportion of my wage which is the point I was making and the one you are trying to deflect from

What does it matter that part of your tax goes to Public Servants wage.

They are working for the government therefore money anyone pays in tax goes to public spending and public sectors wage bills.

Stupid argument. You might aswell say that the tax public servants pay goes towards paying their own wages.

irishh_bob · 07-02-2011 08:36PM

sollar wrote: »

Why don't we train more irish consultants. Is it because G.P's here can make up to €400,000 a year or more - why would any of them bother training as consultants.

Allow more people into medical school and let competition reduce the money G.P's can make. Maybe more would be interested in going down the consultant route then.

yeah, sheltered sectors of the economy like GP,s and consultants need to be exposed to the chill winds of the free market

MagicSean · 07-02-2011 11:19PM

fliball123 wrote: »

You are argueing symantics now..If you not p.s I am sorry for assuming it. But it does not change the fact that ps tax take does not go to pay any proportion of my wage which is the point I was making and the one you are trying to deflect from

Why would it? You are not providing a service. Your wages go to the public sector to pay for services.

fliball123 wrote: »

So are you trying to say that we adequete services here...thats a laugh..Guys 2 reasons why the private sector have such a beef ..Is firstly we feel we are not getting value for money. I mean how many different scandals has there been in the last 10 years in the p.s

Are you serious? Are you forgetting that the banks and developers are private sector? Surely they are responsable for the biggest scandal of the last 10 years.

fliball123 wrote: »

..Now I do aggree some do a very good job. Secondly the money isnt there to sustain the wage bill. As I said before I wish it was but it isnt

The money is there but it is being wasted on unimportant and unnecessary stuff.

maninasia · 08-02-2011 06:14AM

dissed doc wrote: »

I read this again and again and that is just not true. Net salaries in Germany and Ireland are comparable, after tax within 10%. Oberarzt salaries in Germany are around €120k and consultants in Ireland are €155k. Ireland has higher taxes on that, making after tax income the same - use any online calculator to check; throw on state healthcare instead of VHI and you are doing better in germany. There is a reason why if these "double" salaries are in Ireland, no-one is flocking from the other 26 EU countries to ireland, right? Jobs are advertised, but there are no applicants.

It's not even about salaries (which in my experience in Ireland are lower considerably than other western european countries when you put in cost of living, and taxation) - there is no culture in Ireland of the state providing a true state healthcare service. The applications of medical jobs in Ireland is and has been for years opened up the entire EU workforce. It is competency based, and heavily regulated to ensure fairness. The medical council is run by non-doctors and has been for years.

There is no "double salary" in Ireland for consultants. Hence why there are so few consultants working publicly or privately in Ireland.

Check the job sites, check the online tax calculators and you will see that it's simply not worth the hassle of working in Ireland considering it's healthcare policies. We are as said above, a "wild west" in terms of social services development.

I know for a fact it's highly competitive to get a consultant post in Ireland, there are tonnes of qualified Irish people who are waiting in Ireland and overseas (especially US where they go to get training/post grad qualifications) to get such a post. I wonder is Euro 155k an accurate salary too. Many are supposed to be on 250k although I am not sure if that includes private income or not.
There is simply a lack of such positions, ONE of the reasons being the high pay. Also consultants in Ireland are allowed private practice at the same time as having a public post, crazy stuff.
The situation for doctors is very different than consultants, the two should not be confused. But again doctors in Ireland get relatively high pay compared to most European countries, but they are not taking positions for other reaons.

maninasia · 08-02-2011 06:22AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

They may PROVIDE a service but in most cases it's a crappy service.

I also intend being as cut off from all the local services i.e water, sewage, power as possible so I can save myself as much as possible going forward

Skelligs island sounds ideal, no nosy neighbours either.

fliball123 · 08-02-2011 10:17AM

Monife wrote: »

What does it matter that part of your tax goes to Public Servants wage.

They are working for the government therefore money anyone pays in tax goes to public spending and public sectors wage bills.

Stupid argument. You might aswell say that the tax public servants pay goes towards paying their own wages.

If you have read this whole thread my point has been the next gov have simple decision ...tax more people and keep the CPA and keep ps on their current wage bill or cut the ps pay...Its not a stupid argument its a simple one and its one where I feel I am paying enough taxes and feel I am not getting any valued for money.

fliball123 · 08-02-2011 10:20AM

k_mac wrote: »

Why would it? You are not providing a service. Your wages go to the public sector to pay for services.

Are you serious? Are you forgetting that the banks and developers are private sector? Surely they are responsable for the biggest scandal of the last 10 years.

The money is there but it is being wasted on unimportant and unnecessary stuff.

No the money is not there without the banks we are running an 18 billion ( a year) deficit have you not been reading the news lately.....Yeah banks and developers are a big culprit in this as is the public expenditiure decificit.

So where is the money ??? You have said it is there, where is it?

MagicSean · 08-02-2011 03:46PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No the money is not there without the banks we are running an 18 billion ( a year) deficit have you not been reading the news lately.....Yeah banks and developers are a big culprit in this as is the public expenditiure decificit.

So where is the money ??? You have said it is there, where is it?

Being wasted, excessive social welfare payments not to mention a large amount of people abusing that system, unnecessary bureaucracy, poor capital expenditure, poor expenditure decision in general etc etc

th3 s1aught3r · 08-02-2011 06:47PM

Japer wrote: »

According to the governments own statistics department, latest released figures show that public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than equivalent pay in the private sector.

www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/earnlabcosts.pdf

Three years in to a crisis, and the economy is still burdened with the overhead of having an overpaid and over-pensioned public sector ( both compared with the private sector and other public services abroad, including in comparison with our nearest neighbour ). When will we ever learn?

FG now plan to 'reform' the public sector by having several thousand redundencies, ALL VOLUNTARY. They dont have a clue.
If you want to reform something you go in and cut the waste, you dont ask nicely, turkeys dont vote for Christmas etc...

Red Actor · 08-02-2011 08:26PM

fliball123 wrote: »

If you have read this whole thread my point has been the next gov have simple decision ...tax more people and keep the CPA and keep ps on their current wage bill or cut the ps pay...Its not a stupid argument its a simple one and its one where I feel I am paying enough taxes and feel I am not getting any valued for money.

The CPA does not mean that the pay bill stays the same - no replacement of staff who leave will mean that the paybill will go down. Those who are recruited as replacements will get 10% lower pay scales.

I'm more than a bit worried by the FG figures where they claim to save €10bn by getting rid of 10% of the public servants. This means that the 90% who will keep their jobs will cost €8bn.

gigino · 09-02-2011 01:14AM

Red Actor wrote: »

I'm more than a bit worried by the FG figures where they claim to save €10bn by getting rid of 10% of the public servants. This means that the 90% who will keep their jobs will cost €8bn.

It would be difficult to save 10 billion on public service pay. If you cut public service pay in the 26 counties to the UK average public sector pay of the equivalent of £ 22k a year, you could shave 6 or 8 billion off the gross pay + pensions bill, but do not forget a lot - probably well more than half - of that money goes back to the government in taxes ( income tax, vat, vrt etc ). Plus morale and productivity would collapse in the public sector if wages were cut to UK levels, and there would be lots of strikes etc.

Jaysoose · 09-02-2011 10:30AM

Red Actor wrote: »

The CPA does not mean that the pay bill stays the same - no replacement of staff who leave will mean that the paybill will go down. Those who are recruited as replacements will get 10% lower pay scales.

I'm more than a bit worried by the FG figures where they claim to save €10bn by getting rid of 10% of the public servants. This means that the 90% who will keep their jobs will cost €8bn.

I think this argument is being looked at purely from a job cuts POV, we need a root and branch investigation into were all the money goes across the whole organisation. We need to know who is spending what and on what then decide can we make this more efficient and ge better value for money. Then a process can take place to restructure how money is spend alongside cuts that can be justified from a Business persepective.

fliball123 · 09-02-2011 10:33AM

k_mac wrote: »

Being wasted, excessive social welfare payments not to mention a large amount of people abusing that system, unnecessary bureaucracy, poor capital expenditure, poor expenditure decision in general etc etc

Thats about 2/5s of it 1/5 on public spend and the other 2/5s on the public sector wage bill...Well we will see how the 30,000 who Enda Kenny is going to axe out of the ps feel that the social welfare is a waste..It all depends on how you view and those in a ps secure job under the cpa can say this kind of sh1te while their is no threat. I will remind you of this statement in Sept when the cpa is under scrutiny by the IMF as these guys will not pander to any union or gov and will see how unfair and unsustainable it is to have 2/5s of the current spend protected

ParkRunner · 09-02-2011 10:36AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

I think this argument is being looked at purely from a job cuts POV, we need a root and branch investigation into were all the money goes across the whole organisation. We need to know who is spending what and on what then decide can we make this more efficient and ge better value for money. Then a process can take place to restructure how money is spend alongside cuts that can be justified from a Business persepective.

I disagree. We have spent plenty of time investigating where money is spent! Too many resources are being wasted in my opinion on where the public service needs to improve, creating plans and reports and using consultants to make them look important. These resources/funds could be better directed at providing an improved service to the public!

MagicSean · 09-02-2011 11:21AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Thats about 2/5s of it 1/5 on public spend and the other 2/5s on the public sector wage bill...Well we will see how the 30,000 who Enda Kenny is going to axe out of the ps feel that the social welfare is a waste..It all depends on how you view and those in a ps secure job under the cpa can say this kind of sh1te while their is no threat. I will remind you of this statement in Sept when the cpa is under scrutiny by the IMF as these guys will not pander to any union or gov and will see how unfair and unsustainable it is to have 2/5s of the current spend protected

I think you misunderstand me. I do believe the public sector bill is too high. I think there are many jobs that should be cut. I believe many positions should have salary cuts. I do not believe across the board cuts will do any good nor will levies or taxes as this only reduces the spending power of middle and low income families and further damage the economy. I disagree with your statement that the money isn't there. I think that the amount of money wasted by the government is so excessive that cutting it would put this country back in the black without the need to cut jobs.

I think social welfare payments should be reduced severely. I think single parent allowance and rent allowance are being falsely claimed and should both be scrapped and replaced with a new system. I also think the Gardaí should be handed the responsability of investigating dubious social welfare claims as I think it would yield much better results and reduce the abuses. I think the dole is abused too and needs a dramatic rethink. I see no reason why dole money should be able to be spent on cigarettes, alcohol or holidays.

fliball123 · 09-02-2011 11:31AM

k_mac wrote: »

I think you misunderstand me. I do believe the public sector bill is too high. I think there are many jobs that should be cut. I believe many positions should have salary cuts. I do not believe across the board cuts will do any good nor will levies or taxes as this only reduces the spending power of middle and low income families and further damage the economy. I disagree with your statement that the money isn't there. I think that the amount of money wasted by the government is so excessive that cutting it would put this country back in the black without the need to cut jobs.

I think social welfare payments should be reduced severely. I think single parent allowance and rent allowance are being falsely claimed and should both be scrapped and replaced with a new system. I also think the Gardaí should be handed the responsability of investigating dubious social welfare claims as I think it would yield much better results and reduce the abuses. I think the dole is abused too and needs a dramatic rethink. I see no reason why dole money should be able to be spent on cigarettes, alcohol or holidays.

I aggree here fraud should be investigated...but you have to remember a lot of people have only found themselves unemployed how do you think it will make them feel when the ps on an average of 40 odd k not sure what the figure was is not getting cut in the last budget or in the next few ...yet these have been cut down to just under 200 a week....The social welfare should be revamped..like the German system where it encourages people to work. But there are a lot of over paid people in the p.s aswell..Sorry if I took you up wrong...But on the statement of the money is not there..It really isnt we are over 100billion in debt and still over spending by 18 billion a year...even if we reduced this deficit completely we still have the debt to contend with along with the interest rate and this debt is both sovern and the banking debt...

Jaysoose · 09-02-2011 11:50AM

EF wrote: »

I disagree. We have spent plenty of time investigating where money is spent! Too many resources are being wasted in my opinion on where the public service needs to improve, creating plans and reports and using consultants to make them look important. These resources/funds could be better directed at providing an improved service to the public!

You disagree with my points but then make the same one, the crux of the matter is the public service needs to improve and spend money more wisely. This cannot be achieved without finding out where the money is going first of all and this has to be done by detailed investigations into each departments head count and expenditure.

Im not talking about the usual waffly reports about this and that full of half truths and out and out lies buried in documents that dont get read, im talking about identifying the waste and removing it.

This of course has been promised by the Croke park agreement which has basically been used to shore up wages for public servants without any changes as of yet.

We have been promised the same things for over 3 years now and enough is enough, something needs to be done and if it takes the IMF to force cuts etc then in my opinion the Public service cant blame anybody but their own management and union leaders as they have had ample time to show some change in attitude.

This is not a public service bashing post its reality.

ardmacha · 09-02-2011 12:37PM

EF wrote:

I disagree. We have spent plenty of time investigating where money is spent! Too many resources are being wasted in my opinion on where the public service needs to improve, creating plans and reports and using consultants to make them look important. These resources/funds could be better directed at providing an improved service to the public!

Jaysoose wrote: »

You disagree with my points but then make the same one, the crux of the matter is the public service needs to improve and spend money more wisely. This cannot be achieved without finding out where the money is going first of all and this has to be done by detailed investigations into each departments head count and expenditure.

Both these points are correct. Reform requires detailed assessment of the current situation. Three years later there is little data on which sectors had the increases in the boom or any reasonable basis for assessing whether existing provision is excessive or inadequate. The problem is that the management do not want proper assessment, they want to blame unions or somebody else rather than their own efforts or lack of them measured.

If I were the new government I'd publish the expenditure and numbers employed in every sub sector in (say) 2000 and 2010 and any basis for a change (e.g. more children in schools, or more patients treated).

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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