Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

fliball123 · 04-02-2011 12:33PM

kceire wrote: »

remember that the next time you :

ring the garda to complain your car was robbed.
drive through a local authorithy road
need to attend a hospital
need your rubbish collected
thinking to yourself "i wonder where this goes when you flush your chain"
are drinking water from your tap
etc
etc
etc

without the bank problem, our internal budget problems could be sorted out through our annual budget and the current NRP.

Maybe but sure we will never know

sollar · 04-02-2011 12:38PM

With interest rates rising as they are i think most people are interested in self preservation public servants are no different. So they are likely to fight hard to keep what they have and who could blame them.

Maybe some are overpaid (and some aren't) but they are not likely to give that up without a fight.

800 million handed over to unsecured anglo bond holders on monday will do nothing to help change that mindset either.

Count Dooku · 04-02-2011 12:42PM

kceire wrote: »

remember that the next time you :

ring the garda to complain your car was robbed.
drive through a local authorithy road
need to attend a hospital
need your rubbish collected
thinking to yourself "i wonder where this goes when you flush your chain"
are drinking water from your tap
etc
etc
etc

Doesn't explain why we cannot cut PS salaries in useless quango's running by political appointees
We can close at least half of quango's tomorrow and nobody will ever see it

gigino · 04-02-2011 12:57PM

except those who work in the quangos.

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 04:56PM

gigino wrote: »

He finished up by saying why the nurses, police, civil servants, road sweepers etc across the border from him in N. Ireland get by on half what the government pays them here ? Hard to answer that. I up to my brother. I muttered about the cost of living being more here but he soon pointed out all that was cheaper here. ( clothes, no property tax, petrol + fuel, shoes etc )....certainly not enough to justify wages being so much more here compared to n. ireland / uk.

NI is still cheaper to buy from.
Primark prices are lower than pennies down here.
Baby essentials (nappies, grows, milf formula etc etc is 1/3 cheaper up there)
car insurance significanty cheaper
home insurance cheper
cars cost less
motor servicing/maintainance alot cheaper

so NI is still alot cheaper to live at present, what negates going up there at present is simply the time to get there and the cost to get there against the savings made. my friend works in Dunnes Stores Charlestown and he and his missus went ro newry with a list (she is pregnant, nearly due) and bought everything there for 250e after conversion change.

he priced everything then in work and in pennies down here and it would of cost him 370e.

fliball123 wrote: »

Maybe but sure we will never know

i agree

Count Dooku wrote: »

Doesn't explain why we cannot cut PS salaries in useless quango's running by political appointees
We can close at least half of quango's tomorrow and nobody will ever see it

i also agree, i agree with PS cuts where necessary, i cant understand why we cant do a survey of each department and see if theres waste/overspend/underspend or if theres a cost neutral cost to the exchequer.

i read recently that John Tierney (Dublin City Manger) stated that dublin city council is nearly self sufficient, it generates all the income required for its outgoings, maintaince and all of its salaries and pensions they are liable for.

IIRC DCC only received 88million from the government (Local Government Fund) in 2010 which is a tiny amount in all fairness.

gigino · 04-02-2011 05:16PM

kceire wrote: »

my friend works in Dunnes Stores Charlestown and he and his missus went ro newry with a list (she is pregnant, nearly due) and bought everything there for 350e after conversion change.

he priced everything then in work and in pennies down here and it would of cost him 370e.
.

so 350 worth of goods up north cost 370 here ? big deal. Its costing an extra 20 euro every time you spend 350 on goods. Well, petrol + diesel is still a lot cheaper here than up north. A friend of mine has to pay property tax of 1000 on his house up north. Thats 20 quid ( sterling ) a week . We do not have to pay that here.

As my brother said " the nurses, police, civil servants, road sweepers etc across the border from him in N. Ireland get by on half what the government pays them here ?" Its hard to answer that. I tried to agree with you ( about the higher cost of living here ) , but I up to my brother.

OMD · 04-02-2011 05:27PM

kceire wrote: »

NI is still cheaper to buy from.
Primark prices are lower than pennies down here.
Baby essentials (nappies, grows, milf formula etc etc is 1/3 cheaper up there)
car insurance significanty cheaper
home insurance cheper
cars cost less
motor servicing/maintainance alot cheaper

so NI is still alot cheaper to live at present, what negates going up there at present is simply the time to get there and the cost to get there against the savings made. my friend works in Dunnes Stores Charlestown and he and his missus went ro newry with a list (she is pregnant, nearly due) and bought everything there for 350e after conversion change.

.

So prices are 5.71% cheaper in NI compared to here. Now don't forget they get paid a lot less in NI, they pay more income tax on that lower income and then after that they have to pay property taxes and pay for water. By the way "baby essentials" are no longer cheaper in NI

gigino · 04-02-2011 05:33PM

OMD wrote: »

By the way "baby essentials" are no longer cheaper in NI

+1. Pampers are actually cheaper here now.

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 05:36PM

gigino wrote: »

so 350 worth of goods up north cost 370 here ? big deal. Its costing an extra 20 euro every time you spend 350 on goods. Well, petrol + diesel is still a lot cheaper here than up north. A friend of mine has to pay property tax of 1000 on his house up north. Thats 20 quid ( sterling ) a week . We do not have to pay that here.

As my brother said " the nurses, police, civil servants, road sweepers etc across the border from him in N. Ireland get by on half what the government pays them here ?" Its hard to answer that. I tried to agree with you ( about the higher cost of living here ) , but I up to my brother.

OMD wrote: »

So prices are 5.71% cheaper in NI compared to here. Now don't forget they get paid a lot less in NI, they pay more income tax on that lower income and then after that they have to pay property taxes and pay for water. By the way "baby essentials" are no longer cheaper in NI

thats a typo on my part, the goods cost 250e up there and 370e here.
hence why i said they were 1/3 cheaper up there.

my mistake, its actually 120e of a difference.

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 05:38PM

gigino wrote: »

+1. Pampers are actually cheaper here now.

not by my calculations from Sainsburys last weekend, and saisburys would be one of the dearer.

Philips bottles are on average €2 cheaper per pack of 2, the food is alot cheaper. pampers and huggies were cheaper also.

gigino · 04-02-2011 06:19PM

With the special offers they have here, and the exchange rate ( the banks charged me € 122.79 to buy £ 100 sterling recently ) there is not much in it. Some stuff is cheaper here. Most is a bit cheaper up there, but there is not much in it , now that vat has risen to 20% up there. Petrol/ diesel dearer up there. Papers / magazines cheaper up there. The shops up there can get away with paying less wages than shops south of the border. As someone else said, "don't forget they get paid a lot less in NI, they pay more income tax on that lower income and then after that they have to pay property taxes and pay for water". You would wonder how the nurses, police, civil servants, road sweepers etc across the border from him in N. Ireland get by on half what the government pays them here ? I suppose most up there did not get caught in the celtic tiger property frenzy / the ethos of greed. People up there do generally not have big loans to pay back. Many are astonished at what goes on here / the high public service salaries / the tales from the celtic tiger.

MagicSean · 04-02-2011 07:26PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Doesn't explain why we cannot cut PS salaries in useless quango's running by political appointees
We can close at least half of quango's tomorrow and nobody will ever see it

Because nobody in a position to do that has the intelligence or necessary skill for surgical cuts so they can only use an axe instead.

Head The Wall · 04-02-2011 07:32PM

kceire wrote: »

remember that the next time you :

ring the garda to complain your car was robbed.
drive through a local authorithy road
need to attend a hospital
need your rubbish collected
thinking to yourself "i wonder where this goes when you flush your chain"
are drinking water from your tap
etc
etc
etc

They may PROVIDE a service but in most cases it's a crappy service.

I also intend being as cut off from all the local services i.e water, sewage, power as possible so I can save myself as much as possible going forward

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 08:01PM

gigino wrote: »

Many are astonished at what goes on here / the high public service salaries / the tales from the celtic tiger.

source?

I can also state that many of my friends are astonished at how little I earn compared to them.

Head The Wall · 04-02-2011 08:32PM

unless your friends are electricians its not a great comparison.

gigino · 04-02-2011 11:24PM

kceire wrote: »

source?

I can also state that many of my friends are astonished at how little I earn compared to them.

average uk public sector wage is £ 22,405.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/public_sector/article6974029.ece

do you earn less than £22,405 stg ?

you are fortunate you do not have to pay property tax, water rates, higher petrol / diesel etc like the people up north.

Gumbo · 05-02-2011 12:11AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

unless your friends are electricians its not a great comparison.

All of various professions, I earn the same as my frown who works full time in spar but I have slot of tradesmen mates that earn alot more than me, even in the current climate.

gigino wrote: »

average uk public sector wage is £ 22,405.

do you earn less than £22,405 stg ?

you are fortunate you do not have to pay property tax, water rates, higher petrol / diesel etc like the people up north.

22k stg is a very good wage considering the difference in purchasing power and the lower cost of living in NI.

gigino · 05-02-2011 12:30AM

kceire wrote: »

22k stg is a very good wage considering the difference in purchasing power and the lower cost of living in NI.

If 22k, the average public sector wage of a public sector worker in Derry or Newry, is a 'very good wage' ( even though it costs them as much or more to live than someone accross the border because of property tax - maybe a grand annually, water rates, higher interest / mortgage rates, higher petrol, clothing + footwear costs up north etc ), how would you describe the average wage of a public sector worker in Donegal or Louth, which is not a million miles from being almost double that ? ( actually € 47061 according to our own governments c.s.o., who should know if anyone knows!http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/earnlabcosts.pdf )

I used to have sympathy for your argument kceire as I am a public sector worker as well, but on a skiing holiday recently I met a number of people from both sides of the border who have opened my eyes. We had good debates about the economy. I have to put the good of the country above my own selfish personal finances now. Its the only way the country can pull itself out of the mess.

cooperguy · 05-02-2011 02:09AM

gigino wrote: »

Lots of public servants have 2 or 3 mortgages, because during the celtic tiger years the greedy private sector banks and estate agents were encouraging us to buy holiday homes and investment properties to suppliment our pensions. Think of the Garda with the flat in Rathmines, the teacher with the holiday home etc. If you had one property which increased in value a lot, you could use it as the deposit on the 2nd property and so on. The private sector destroyed the economy. The public sector have already had cuts and should not have to pay for it. The loans / amount of money owed to the private sector has not been cut.

That's the most ridiculous argument I have heard in a long time! The greedy private sector encouraging you to buy holiday homes and investment properties!! Do you not have your own brain for independent thought! If someone puts a proposition in front of you (buy a second house, go on a holiday, buy a packet of sweets) then you look at the price, look at what you earn and make a decision. You dont just decide to go for it cause somebody suggested it !

Gumbo · 05-02-2011 11:54AM

gigino wrote: »

If 22k, the average public sector wage of a public sector worker in Derry or Newry, is a 'very good wage' ( even though it costs them as much or more to live than someone accross the border because of property tax - maybe a grand annually, water rates, higher interest / mortgage rates, higher petrol, clothing + footwear costs up north etc ), how would you describe the average wage of a public sector worker in Donegal or Louth, which is not a million miles from being almost double that ? ( actually € 47061 according to our own governments c.s.o., who should know if anyone knows!http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/current/earnlabcosts.pdf )

I used to have sympathy for your argument kceire as I am a public sector worker as well, but on a skiing holiday recently I met a number of people from both sides of the border who have opened my eyes. We had good debates about the economy. I have to put the good of the country above my own selfish personal finances now. Its the only way the country can pull itself out of the mess.

again, all your opinion, with lower cost of living in NI, it cant be compared to Eire. Motoring costs lower, food lower, tax lower, pretty much everything is lower in NI at present so it cant be compared to us at all.

its amazing that you always seem to bump into "sombody" that you know, or are related to or on a holiday when its suited to your argument.

i'll give you my example, my cousin used to live in Drogheda, shes a qualified teacher, she moved out of Drogheda and up to Dungannon because the wages she earned gave her more buying power up there, her cost of living is way down and even during the boom when she could of moved back and took up a teaching job in Eire when they were advertised everyday of the week, she didnt because she was financially better of living north of the border.

from the report you posted :

Weekly earnings in the public sector fell by 4.5% compared with a fall
of 0.3% in the private sector. The annual fall recorded for the public
sector reflects the decreases in public sector pay rates announced in
the Budget December 2009 and first shown in the Q1 2010 results.
Earnings in the public sector are, however calculated before
deduction of the pension levy that was introduced in March 2009.

gigino · 05-02-2011 12:19PM

kceire wrote: »

pretty much everything is lower in NI at present so it cant be compared to us at all.

Not everything is lower price in N. I. Pennys here were selling jeans at 5 euro recently. Clarkes shoes are cheaper south of the border. So are Pampers nappies + baby stuff if you shop around, as someone else said. Living accross the border households have to pay property tax - maybe a grand annually, water rates, higher interest / mortgage rates, higher petrol, etc. People can always buy online from wherever they want in the EC or world. Lidl or Tesco in Co. Louth is not that much dearer than Lidl or Tesco in Newry to warrant an extra TWENTY GRAND a year pay for the average public servant here surely ??????

You still have not answered the question:

If 22k, the average public sector wage of a public sector worker in Derry or Newry, is a 'very good wage' how would you describe the average wage of a public sector worker in Donegal or Louth, which is not a million miles from being almost double that ?

Gumbo · 05-02-2011 12:22PM

gigino wrote: »

Not everything is lower price in N. I. Pennys here were selling jeans at 5 euro recently. Clarkes shoes are cheaper south of the border. So are Pampers nappies + baby stuff if you shop around, as someone else said. Living accross the border households have to pay property tax - maybe a grand annually, water rates, higher interest / mortgage rates, higher petrol, etc. People can always buy online from wherever they want in the EC or world. Lidl or Tesco in Co. Louth is not that much dearer than Lidl or Tesco in Newry to warrant an extra TWENTY GRAND a year pay for the average public servant here surely ??????

You still have not answered the question:

If 22k, the average public sector wage of a public sector worker in Derry or Newry, is a 'very good wage' how would you describe the average wage of a public sector worker in Donegal or Louth, which is not a million miles from being almost double that ?

again, all your opinion, with lower cost of living in NI, it cant be compared to Eire. Motoring costs lower, food lower, tax lower, pretty much everything is lower in NI at present so it cant be compared to us at all.

gigino · 05-02-2011 12:39PM

Do households here pay a grand a year property tax ? or water rates ? Do people here on a salary of 22k pay much tax ? Diesel / petrol costs more in N. Ireland.

Do you really think the average public servant in Louth should be paid over TWENTY grand a year more than the average public sector worker in N. Ireland ? Who do you think has the higher standard of living ?

RichardAnd · 05-02-2011 01:33PM

cooperguy wrote: »

That's the most ridiculous argument I have heard in a long time! The greedy private sector encouraging you to buy holiday homes and investment properties!! Do you not have your own brain for independent thought! If someone puts a proposition in front of you (buy a second house, go on a holiday, buy a packet of sweets) then you look at the price, look at what you earn and make a decision. You dont just decide to go for it cause somebody suggested it !

I think you failed to see the sarcasm in his post.

Gumbo · 05-02-2011 03:34PM

gigino wrote: »

Do households here pay a grand a year property tax ? or water rates ? Do people here on a salary of 22k pay much tax ? Diesel / petrol costs more in N. Ireland.

Do you really think the average public servant in Louth should be paid over TWENTY grand a year more than the average public sector worker in N. Ireland ? Who do you think has the higher standard of living ?

Do NI people pay twice the price for cars, over twice the price for motor tax over twice the price for home/car insurance?

They pay less for groceries, electronic and pretty much everything else.
A night out is cheaper also as alcohol is cheaper.

gigino · 05-02-2011 03:49PM

Motor tax here can be a lot cheaper than N. Ireland. A years road tax on a new bmw 3-series here is only 156 euro. It is even less on more economical cars. Pertol/diesel here is cheaper. No water charges here or property tax for households, saving over a grand a year. Shoes etc here are cheaper. People can always shop online from wherever they want. A years household shopping in Lidl in Louth is hardly going to be 20 grand more than a years household shopping in Lidl in Newry....unless the public servant in question eats 80 billion calories a year ? lol. People up north on the average public sector salary there of £ 22 thousand pay more tax than people on the equivalent salary here.

I'll make it easy for you with 3 questions. A one word answer to each will suffice.

(A) Do you really think the average public servant in Louth should be paid over TWENTY grand a year more than the average public sector worker in N. Ireland ?

(B) Who do you think has the higher standard of living ?

(C) I know a lot of public servants here have investment property loans and holiday homes etc to maintain / pay off, but does that justify the huge difference ? Average public sector annual wage of over € 47 grand a year here after the pay cuts, compared to £ 22 grand a year public sector salary in the UK ? Bear in mind our country is in receivership, and borrowing from the IMF / EU ( inc the UK ).

Gumbo · 05-02-2011 03:56PM

again, all your opinion, with lower cost of living in NI, it cant be compared to Eire. Motoring costs lower, food lower, tax lower, pretty much everything is lower in NI at present so it cant be compared to us at all.

gigino · 05-02-2011 04:22PM

OK, by your evasion I take it you are answering No, ours and No.
Anyone else here care to answer these questions ?

(A) Do you really think the average public servant in Louth should be paid over TWENTY grand a year more than the average public sector worker in N. Ireland ?

(B) Who do you think has the higher standard of living ?

(C) I know a lot of public servants here have investment property loans and holiday homes etc to maintain / pay off, but does that justify the huge difference ? Average public sector annual wage of over € 47 grand a year here after the pay cuts, compared to £ 22 grand a year public sector salary in the UK ? Bear in mind our country is in receivership, and borrowing from the IMF / EU ( inc the UK ).

Amhran Nua · 05-02-2011 04:23PM

gigino wrote:

Lots of public servants have 2 or 3 mortgages, because during the celtic tiger years the greedy private sector banks and estate agents were encouraging us to buy holiday homes and investment properties to suppliment our pensions. Think of the Garda with the flat in Rathmines, the teacher with the holiday home etc. If you had one property which increased in value a lot, you could use it as the deposit on the 2nd property and so on. The private sector destroyed the economy. The public sector have already had cuts and should not have to pay for it. The loans / amount of money owed to the private sector has not been cut.

Sarcasm or not, if you follow that line of thought to it's logical conclusion, the public sector would then be largely responsible for inflaming and encouraging the property bubble (40% of properties bought in 2006 were "investment" properties, no prizes for guessing to who), hence the banks getting overleveraged into the property market, hence the country needing punitive loans which threaten the future of the nation for decades to come.

So, if you were to follow that line of thinking, you'd almost have to point the finger to a great extent at public sector unions and those who supported them.

If you were to follow that line of thinking.

avoidspammers · 05-02-2011 08:01PM

fliball123 wrote: »

True but your taxes are not going to pay my or any other private sector workers wage.

Again, can you please explain what you mean by saying that "your taxes.......". It's as if you are assuming that I am a Public Servant??

A.S.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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