Micheal Martin - FF have they changed?

08-02-2011 08:09PM #1

This would suggest no:

and it would suggest that FF are tied to vested interests ....Anyone care to argue against?

Has Michael Martins leadership changed the party or is it more of the same?

flutered · 08-02-2011 08:15PM

a leapord never changes it spots, the eu dunce is still squalking on finance, despite every utterence and thing he has done in the last four years has been proved wrong, odea who signed a high court affidavit that he should have not, back squeaking again, a deputy leader that carried a family member all over the world at our expense i hope this can clarify and answer your question.

gandalf · 08-02-2011 09:28PM

This election literature from 1987 suggests not.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/fianna-fail-cork-south-central-1987/

C14N · 08-02-2011 10:16PM

I don't know if they've changed that much but they are openly accepting that they made mistakes which is a good first step. Míchael is also a good new front for FF imo and has more charisma than Cowen. I'm keeping an open mind.

Tech3 · 08-02-2011 10:51PM

How can they change over night just because a few ministers got the kick and a new leader was put in place? Its still is the same corrupt political group running in the background that wrecked the country for the next couple of decades.

oppenheimer1 · 08-02-2011 10:57PM

Is there any point in asking that question when this place seems to be nothing more than a FG and Labour love in?

Snakeblood · 08-02-2011 10:58PM

C14N wrote: »

I don't know if they've changed that much but they are openly accepting that they made mistakes which is a good first step. Míchael is also a good new front for FF imo and has more charisma than Cowen. I'm keeping an open mind.

He was a minister for 14 years. If he was going to change something, he'd have changed something. He's the same lying thief FF always have at their head, he's just found new lies to tell.

The Volt · 08-02-2011 10:59PM

No change, O'Dea being put back to the frontbench proves this.

Snakeblood · 08-02-2011 10:59PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Is there any point in asking that question when this place seems to be nothing more than a FG and Labour love in?

If it helps every major party is largely composed of scumsucking weasels.

Liam Byrne · 08-02-2011 11:02PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Is there any point in asking that question when this place seems to be nothing more than a FG and Labour love in?

Far from a "love in" from here!

A "less hate, possibly even tolerance-in", but definitely not a "love in".

And given the damage that FF have done, it's perfectly logical and understandable that they are hated.

Mr.Micro · 08-02-2011 11:04PM

No FF have not changed but they intend to go up a gear by opening up the cabinet to non elected people......developers, CEO s, Galway tent, Coprporate cronies and all other cronie? Suggests so in FFs new political reform proposal? Maybe I should mention a few bankers as well. Could one imagine such a set up where policy and decisions were decided by those with bias and massive vested interest. The New Corporate FF party.

Kristopherus · 08-02-2011 11:08PM

Are F.F. changing? Not on your life:mad: They still believe they did wrong nothing in the last 14 yrs. Had the slimiest gobs**te imaginable for a leader for most of that time. No they are not changing. The only thing that might change them is the next 14 yrs in the wilderness:mad::mad::mad:

andytown · 08-02-2011 11:11PM

--LOL, CHANGE ? FF?:D--Yea for the worst !

Triangle · 08-02-2011 11:12PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Are F.F. changing? Not on your life:mad: They still believe they did wrong nothing in the last 14 yrs. Had the slimiest gobs**te imaginable for a leader for most of that time. No they are not changing. The only thing that might change them is the next 14 yrs in the wilderness:mad::mad::mad:

Exactly ^^

But FG and Labour haven't changed either.
The greens have changed but imo for the worse.

delta_bravo · 08-02-2011 11:13PM

You do realise FG received about €2m this year in corporate donations? Business follows power. Don't expect that to change

Monty Burnz · 08-02-2011 11:14PM

Now that Micheal Martin is in charge, in the grand tradition of FFailure leaders, I presume all manner of dirt will start leaking out about money from suspicious sources, brown envelopes etc.

andytown · 08-02-2011 11:16PM

andytown wrote: »

--LOL, CHANGE ? FF?:D--Yea for the worst !

Of course looking at the list of runners,who the hell has changed,same old rhetoric,same old slogans,yesterdays men

Uprisings and revolutions have always occurred in countries tyrannized over, in countries where human hearts have been forced to remain silent." ~ (The Philippines a Century Hence)

sceptre · 08-02-2011 11:18PM

As far as I remember, the last time a leopard managed to do anything with his spots it was in a fictional story by Rudyard Kipling. And when they were on, they were permanently on.

Micheál Martin's been a minister throughout the past 14 years. If there are spots being changed, he's open to being questioned on why he wasn't calling for spots to be changed during that time. Also, as a minister for the past 14 years, it would be a little unbelievable to suggest that his are different to the ones he's been wearing throughout the previous 14 years.

Make up your own minds, obviously.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-02-2011 11:56PM

How long did it take the Conservatives in the UK to change enough to be electable again ?
and was it change by the same people or was it because they were replaced with new people ?
and did they really change ?

kincsem · 09-02-2011 12:06AM

Snakeblood wrote: »

He was a minister for 14 years. If he was going to change something, he'd have changed something. He's the same lying thief FF always have at their head, he's just found new lies to tell.

Ah now. He is reforming politics. Let's forget the €100,000,000,000 debt that they got us into, and the €18,000,000,000 current spending deficit.

Snakeblood · 09-02-2011 12:51AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How long did it take the Conservatives in the UK to change enough to be electable again ?
and was it change by the same people or was it because they were replaced with new people ?
and did they really change ?

The Conservatives used to be the natural party of government, and New Labour and sleaze effectively killed that. It took them years to recover their position, and it was largely because they killed off every senior politician they had in the interim.

That and Labour ran themselves into a wall with Gordon Brown and the economic collapse. I'd say that Labour would still be in with the Lib Dems if they'd found someone slightly more likeable than Gordon.

nesf · 09-02-2011 01:44AM

With time I dearly hope FF can change and become a more honest centre right party that is less populist. That kind of change takes years in opposition though. I hope Martin has the stomach for it and can bring the party with him. With luck the ensuing election will get rid of a lot of the dead wood like Cyprian Brady.

Shea O'Meara · 09-02-2011 02:21AM

Well, when Haughey was gone a brave new more accountable FFail was created. No more under the table corruption, they cleaned house, that was then, this is now they cried!....one Bertie Ahern at the helm....oh wait:eek:

I would love FFail and their supporters to disappear off the face of the planet. They will never be any good unless drastic changes are implimented, but such a self serving rotten organisation only exists because of the under table deal. If the back handers stopped they would melt away as a party for they have no substance other than making a few bob for the few.

I was hoping, at best, they would keep their heads down and **** off for a period of grace, but no. They have Martin yakking as he twists in the wind. The big boys take a back seat and let him tough it out if only to keep the lights on at party HQ.

They cannot change. All they have to offer is a tax free back hander. If they come clean, they cease to be.

Rubik. · 09-02-2011 02:31AM

It was very noticeable that when everything started to go wrong back in 2008, Martin decided to keep his head down. When FF were sending the troops out to face the media and defend the indefensible he was nowhere to be seen. It was done out of a motive of self-preservation and perhaps even back then he had his eye on being the next leader of FF.

This kind of cute-hoorism indicates - Micheal Martin's FF is not going to be a whole lot different than what has gone before. Cowen can rightly be accused of putting party before country, but Martin put himself before party and country.

femur61 · 09-02-2011 07:07AM

C14N wrote: »

I don't know if they've changed that much but they are openly accepting that they made mistakes which is a good first step. Míchael is also a good new front for FF imo and has more charisma than Cowen. I'm keeping an open mind.

14 years and the only thing he has on his record is smoking ban! I'll never vote FF doesn't matter who is leader. They've ruined this country they take us for eejits. €90,000 for retiring then he becomes leader. Nothing short of fraud. Mary harney €300,000, Jim McDaid €250,000 I am so infuriated with them. Great orator so was bertie and not Goodbody say it may be 20 years till we get over this crisis.

flash1080 · 09-02-2011 07:38AM

delta_bravo wrote: »

You do realise FG received about €2m this year in corporate donations? Business follows power. Don't expect that to change

FG have also been very welcoming of FF rejects who left to join FG because they weren't put forward to run in elections.

Sir Oxman · 09-02-2011 08:45AM

flash1080 wrote: »

FG have also been very welcoming of FF rejects who left to join FG because they weren't put forward to run in elections.

Could you give a few names so people can judge the quality of man or woman who left FF to join them?

The Volt · 09-02-2011 08:54AM

nesf wrote: »

With time I dearly hope FF can change and become a more honest centre right party that is less populist. That kind of change takes years in opposition though. I hope Martin has the stomach for it and can bring the party with him. With luck the ensuing election will get rid of a lot of the dead wood like Cyprian Brady.

in essence, merge with FG

nesf · 09-02-2011 12:47PM

Voltwad wrote: »

in essence, merge with FG

That's decades away. Unfortunately.

Oasis_Dublin · 09-02-2011 01:59PM

sceptre wrote: »

As far as I remember, the last time a leopard managed to do anything with his spots it was in a fictional story by Rudyard Kipling. And when they were on, they were permanently on.

Micheál Martin's been a minister throughout the past 14 years. If there are spots being changed, he's open to being questioned on why he wasn't calling for spots to be changed during that time. Also, as a minister for the past 14 years, it would be a little unbelievable to suggest that his are different to the ones he's been wearing throughout the previous 14 years.

+ 1

Let's also not forget the re-appointment of Willie "lies to the courts" O'Dea to the front bench. FF are rotten to the core.

Ash.J.Williams · 09-02-2011 02:07PM

Elections are not about delivering a better service for the people, they are about winning. Politicians tell us what we want to hear and we vote for the best...
FF have become masters of winning elections and they have driven us into the biggest economic crisis since independence. So it's this simple....they will probably talk the talk better than any other party, they will probably win every debate, but that does not make them honest....
It's time they sat in the opposition for a few terms and see how things go...

Micheal Martin - FF have they changed?

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