anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

leincar · 07-02-2011 11:52PM

NotorietyH wrote: »

Anyone who is thinking of voting for Sinn Fein should have watched or should watch on RTE Player, tonight's episode of Frontline. I can't imagine anyone walking away from it thinking that Sinn Fein's economic policy is anything but reckless, misguided and incredibly dangerous. A muddled performance from Pearse Doherty where he avoided answering most questions by dancing around the question asked and gave very confusing replies to the questions he did answer. They had an independent economist on the panel who basically said that Sinn Fein's economic policy was barely worth discussing because it made so little sense.

I can understand people wanting to vote for Sinn Fein as either a protest vote or just the desire to see a change in the staus quo of the government, but I can't see their economic policies leading to anything but complete disaster for the country.

Agreed. I won't be voting for them anyway, but Pearse Doherty made Joan Burton seem positively balanced and sane.

gsxr1 · 07-02-2011 11:57PM

NotorietyH wrote: »

Anyone who is thinking of voting for Sinn Fein should have watched or should watch on RTE Player, tonight's episode of Frontline. I can't imagine anyone walking away from it thinking that Sinn Fein's economic policy is anything but reckless, misguided and incredibly dangerous. A muddled performance from Pearse Doherty where he avoided answering most questions by dancing around the question asked and gave very confusing replies to the questions he did answer. They had an independent economist on the panel who basically said that Sinn Fein's economic policy was barely worth discussing because it made so little sense.

I can understand people wanting to vote for Sinn Fein as either a protest vote or just the desire to see a change in the staus quo of the government, but I can't see their economic policies leading to anything but complete disaster for the country.

It certainly has me thinking deeper.

WHO can get me a construction worker , working again??? At the end of the day . The money I bring home matters more to me than the IMF. At the moment Australia offers me more .

What questions should I be directing at the canvassers ?

caseyann · 08-02-2011 12:12AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It tells you what a joke of a party SF are that their supporters here only want to defend them against claims that they are terrorists and ignore posts questioning their economics policies. Even their supporters cant explain their economics policies.

So when the accusations come up which should'nt be brought up in first place.The supporters are meant to stay dumb,just because it doesnt run in line what you wish to be said.So why are people bringing up the rubbish at all.

Worztron · 08-02-2011 12:20AM

shtemcguire wrote: »

they have policies that want to help the poor and they are republican which is good

Hi shtemcguire. Could you add a poll to this thread? Thanks.

SEVERA · 08-02-2011 12:27AM

Hey don't hijack this thread and pretend to be sinn fein supporters, pearse docherty was more than able to talk through the economic stance sinn fein has taken, but he wasn't aloud to finish any of the points he began to make,
the esteemed economist present on the front-line you refer to said that he would bring pearse docherty to brussels to debate and negotiate this deal before he would bring any of the rest on the panel! get your facts right.

Woodgate · 08-02-2011 12:28AM

Not a chance.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-02-2011 12:35AM

caseyann wrote: »

Ah but British murdered and degraded Irish people and treated them like **** for decades,and they have the same people who backed up their terrorist elements along with their Judaical element on these horrendous bigoted racist crimes in politics and we are meant to forget and forgive and accept them.
A bit double standard eh when Sinn Féin were the ones who committed to the cease fire and without them there would have been none.
Kiss loyalist butt and dirty our own.
This rubbish makes my blood boil.

Turn a thread of will you be voting Sinn Féin to a thread on bashing.

Aren't you forgetting about the prisoner release and other aspects of the Good Friday Agreement ?

Or the peace dividend

Or the fact this thread is about the Dáil election and the economy is the issue that completely eclipses all other issues for most voters.

caseyann · 08-02-2011 12:36AM

Worztron wrote: »

Hi shtemcguire. Could you add a poll to this thread? Thanks.

Mods can only do that now i believe.So maybe a pm to one of them

caseyann · 08-02-2011 12:42AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting about the prisoner release and other aspects of the Good Friday Agreement ?

Or the peace dividend

Or the fact this thread is about the Dáil election and the economy is the issue that completely eclipses all other issues for most voters.

Nope didnt forget,Unionists got their prisoners out on other side also,and have big crims in their parties.

Then why arent they arguing about the economics if that really is the problem for most of them not to vote Sinn Féin?,but bringing up accusations of nothing more than slander and the past says otherwise? While thats ok for them and their right to not trust them no need to be dragging the thread in disarray and wrecking it for people who want to read and discuss why they will on proper political basis or they wont.
I know you know your stuff about economics, i dont really so i cant argue so much on that.I want to vote for someone who hasnt had a hand in the economic downfall and lies to the people of this country about our economic crisis and job loss.So therefore as they were in no way shape or form involved in it and had been giving out all along they have my vote.Its their time to show what they can do for Ireland.The others had their chance.

NotorietyH · 08-02-2011 12:43AM

SEVERA wrote: »

the esteemed economist present on the front-line you refer to said that he would bring pearse docherty to brussels to debate and negotiate this deal before he would bring any of the rest on the panel! get your facts right.

I was stating facts, he said he'd have Pearse negotiating because you need the EU to think that you could default on the debt, as a negotiating tactic, but crucially, he didn't say that is what we should do, in fact he said quite the opposite. You're latching onto a single quote, which was said slightly tongue in cheek, and trying to present it as the economist endorsing Sinn Fein's policy when he frequently stated that he didn't agree with Sinn Fein's policy and at one stage said it basically wasn't worth discussing.

You're simply ignoring that many times he basically ridiculed Sinn Fein's economic policy. You're also ignoring the fact that Pearse consistently dodged and danced around direct questions when he either didn't know the answer, or didn't want to answer. Constantly referring back to the bank debt when pushed on an answer about the budgetary gap in the state's finances.

Worztron · 08-02-2011 12:53AM

caseyann wrote: »

Mods can only do that now i believe.So maybe a pm to one of them

But I though the OP could add a poll to his/her own thread?

caseyann · 08-02-2011 12:54AM

Worztron wrote: »

But I though the OP could add a poll to his/her own thread?

I dont believe they can after it is made.

gsxr1 · 08-02-2011 01:03AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting about the prisoner release and other aspects of the Good Friday Agreement ?

Or the peace dividend

Or the fact this thread is about the Dáil election and the economy is the issue that completely eclipses all other issues for most voters.

The Agreement and its conditions was agreed upon and voted very positively by both sides of our community in a referendum . Political Prisoner release was a major part of this vote.

And for all purposes the violence on both sides stopped with the exception of the hard liners. Sinn fein represented with a strong majority the Nationalistic people of the north at the time of the agreement .
This should also be noted when Anti SF want bring up the past.

I dont believe using the northern struggle as a tool to mar SF election endeavorer is fair, when other major political parties in the south where quite happy to leave Irish citizens to the mercy of the British military.

SF policies dont hold much water with me. Surly that is the only tool Anti SF campaigners need

Capt'n Midnight · 08-02-2011 01:13AM

caseyann wrote: »

Nope didnt forget,Unionists got their prisoners out on other side also,and have big crims in their parties.

more of the "they were as bad as us"
except I hadn't mentioned the Unionists, nor did you in your previous post so why now ??

My point about the British releasing the prisoners was that all sides gave concessions and got benefits. The art of successful negotiation is that all sides are equally dissatisfied. It's something to remember for the future

Then why arent they arguing about the economics if that really is the problem for most of them not to vote Sinn Féin?

people are arguing about the economics

....
I want to vote for someone who hasnt had a hand in the economic downfall and lies to the people of this country about our economic crisis and job loss.So therefore as they were in no way shape or form involved in it and had been giving out all along they have my vote.Its their time to show what they can do for Ireland.The others had their chance.

Apart from FF and the independents and at the end the Greens none of the other parties were involved so why not vote for them ?

SF have shown what they can do for Ireland by not being in government since ... whatever you can say about the Greens they showed they could be a reliable junior partner. I'm not sure people would believe that SF could continue as long whilst loosing core support.

caseyann · 08-02-2011 01:15AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

more of the "they were as bad as us"
except I hadn't mentioned the Unionists, nor did you in your previous post so why now ??

My point about the British releasing the prisoners was that all sides gave concessions and got benefits. The art of successful negotiation is that all sides are equally dissatisfied. It's something to remember for the future

people are arguing about the economics

Apart from FF and the independents and at the end the Greens none of the other parties were involved so why not vote for them ?

SF have shown what they can do for Ireland by not being in government since ... whatever you can say about the Greens they showed they could be a reliable junior partner. I'm not sure people would believe that SF could continue as long whilst loosing core support.

With all due respect in your opinion that is. They all sat back and watched and waited till **** hit fan and then complained,but sat back on their pretty wages and luxury lives until that time came.Sinn Féin didnt and complained long before.

SEVERA · 08-02-2011 02:19AM

NotorietyH wrote: »

I was stating facts, he said he'd have Pearse negotiating because you need the EU to think that you could default on the debt, as a negotiating tactic, but crucially, he didn't say that is what we should do, in fact he said quite the opposite. You're latching onto a single quote, which was said slightly tongue in cheek, and trying to present it as the economist endorsing Sinn Fein's policy when he frequently stated that he didn't agree with Sinn Fein's policy and at one stage said it basically wasn't worth discussing.

You're simply ignoring that many times he basically ridiculed Sinn Fein's economic policy. You're also ignoring the fact that Pearse consistently dodged and danced around direct questions when he either didn't know the answer, or didn't want to answer. Constantly referring back to the bank debt when pushed on an answer about the budgetary gap in the state's finances.

GAPS WHAT GAPS THERE ARE NO GAPS WE ARE FACING A BLACK HOLE.

please don't tell me what i seen and heard pearse docherty was cut off by pat kenny twice, because pat wanted a sound bite for the dublin 4 audience for their dinner party's.
he didn't want to hear how it was going to end. as soon as he mentioned separating sovereign and banking debts he was cut across, or when he mentioned that Anglo paid out 750 million last week to bondholders unsecured debt not covered by the state gauretee, was this point taken up no lenihan wanted to talk about fg policy and how close it was to ff:rolleyes:.

john claude trichet tonight said that Greece and Ireland will not be able to renegotiate the IMF/EU deal why would he say this if it isn't the EU position, are we to believe the fools like burton,lenihan, and noonan who jokes about going into a bank and asking for a loan of a million.
he wants to bring in a bill so the bank will give insurance against negative equity, NOW FOR WHAT ITS TOO LATE. on TV3 fg want to pay the next taoiseach 200k a year and ministers 160k, now is that what your going to vote for?
as for burton she thinks the people are "afraid to spend" SPEND WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE BROKE

takun · 08-02-2011 02:24AM

Well, so maybe he was not given enough time, and if he had been all would be clear. But there is all the space and time needed right here for someone to give a clear explanation of how Sinn Fein's policy could possibly work. Nobody has done so thus far.

Chucky the tree · 08-02-2011 02:25AM

People aren't broke. That will only happen if Sinn Fein get in power, and then anyone on social welfare or anyone in the public service will be getting paid in magic beans.

SEVERA · 08-02-2011 02:53AM

takun wrote: »

Well, so maybe he was not given enough time, and if he had been all would be clear. But there is all the space and time needed right here for someone to give a clear explanation of how Sinn Fein's policy could possibly work. Nobody has done so thus far.

Look i dont mean to be smart but even if you were listening you wouldnt understand i mean truly understand , in fact alot of people working in the media including pat kenny and vin b with an iq of 180 or whatever dont understand and cant fully explain how we got where we are.
The main issue here is Trust if you dont have it i cant make you have it.

look at it this way if you had to cross a deep lake and you didnt want to drown like most people,and you had a choice between a new boat and an old boat that had previously capsised and lost alot of passangers, what boat would you get into?

jammyhog · 08-02-2011 05:28AM

FG same policies as FF, Labour no policies, FF more of the same...so yes i will be voting Sinn Fein

takun · 08-02-2011 10:29AM

SEVERA wrote: »

Look i dont mean to be smart but even if you were listening you wouldnt understand i mean truly understand , in fact alot of people working in the media including pat kenny and vin b with an iq of 180 or whatever dont understand and cant fully explain how we got where we are.
The main issue here is Trust if you dont have it i cant make you have it.

look at it this way if you had to cross a deep lake and you didnt want to drown like most people,and you had a choice between a new boat and an old boat that had previously capsised and lost alot of passangers, what boat would you get into?

I have a pretty good understanding of how we got where we are, I am not asking about that. I am asking for an explanation where the Sinn Fein plan would take us and how. Because I genuinely do not see how it can possibly work and wonder am I missing something.

Your boat analogy is flawed, but I'll pursue it. There are several boats by this particular lake, some new, some second-hand, some quite poorly reconditioned. They all have their agents standing by to tell me how great and how safe their boat is.

The agents are on commission, so I know they are all giving me the best spiel they can.

No matter how good the capsized boat's sell sounds, I probably give it a miss. And if any boat has an agent who won't clearly answer my questions, in a way that is convincing? Well, that one goes on the 'miss' list too.

There is no guarantee that the boats with the more credible agents and the more believable pitch will get me to the other side, but they are the boats from which I will chose and in one of those I will take my chances.

Where I am now is that the Sinn Fein boat looks pretty good, it's shiny and new, and has a range of safety features different than all the others. But it has never crossed the lake before, and the agent can just not explain to me how his new and different safety features are in fact any better than the others and how they will work. No matter how often I ask. I may just give that boat a miss because when faced with a big deep deadly lake it's no time for experimentation.

Zubeneschamali · 08-02-2011 10:36AM

takun wrote: »

I genuinely do not see how it can possibly work and wonder am I missing something.

Sinn Féin don't need policies that could possibly work, because they can't possibly get into Government, so they can say any old thing and their bluff will never be called.

Pete_Cavan · 08-02-2011 10:43AM

SEVERA wrote: »

Hey don't hijack this thread and pretend to be sinn fein supporters, pearse docherty was more than able to talk through the economic stance sinn fein has taken, but he wasn't aloud to finish any of the points he began to make,
the esteemed economist present on the front-line you refer to said that he would bring pearse docherty to brussels to debate and negotiate this deal before he would bring any of the rest on the panel! get your facts right.

The economist also said SFs figures dont add up and it is not as simple as they make it out to be. He completely dismissed their policies as fantasy.

He did say Doherty is in the best position to renegotiate but SF dont want to renegotiate, they want to reject the bailout. That comment is irrelevant because SF are seeking votes based on rejecting the bailout, not renegotiating it so the belief that they are in a good position to renegotiate means nothing because they are not going to do it.

Get your facts right.

danbohan · 08-02-2011 10:47AM

SEVERA wrote: »

Look i dont mean to be smart but even if you were listening you wouldnt understand i mean truly understand , in fact alot of people working in the media including pat kenny and vin b with an iq of 180 or whatever dont understand and cant fully explain how we got where we are.
The main issue here is Trust if you dont have it i cant make you have it.

look at it this way if you had to cross a deep lake and you didnt want to drown like most people,and you had a choice between a new boat and an old boat that had previously capsised and lost alot of passangers, what boat would you get into?

pat kenny and vin b with an iq of 180 ???, somebody in the 80s i think it might have been geldoff said what was wrong with ireland is that most of the people think gay beirne is a member of the intelligentsia, seems nothing has changed in so many ways

Xclusiv Barber · 08-02-2011 10:48AM

None of FF FG LAB ever ever going to take SF into govt anyway so SF can throw around whatever soundbites they want, tis true. They may gain a seat or two and come out with around 14 seats in all likelihood.

fred252 · 08-02-2011 10:55AM

not passing comment on what was said last night but Kenny was an annoying git cutting across doherty (and others) before they had a chance to finish a coherent point. also doherty got less airtime than the others but maybe this is justified as SF have a smaller mandate...

LordSutch · 08-02-2011 10:56AM

Xclusiv Barber wrote: »

They may gain a seat or two and come out with around 14 seats in all likelihood.

From five to forteen, that's a very scary prospect :mad:

dmaxontour · 08-02-2011 10:58AM

fred252 wrote: »

not passing comment on what was said last night but Kenny was an annoying git cutting across doherty (and others) before they had a chance to finish a coherent point. also doherty got less airtime than the others but maybe this is justified as SF have a smaller mandate...

I agree about Pat kenny. He actually ruined the debate by not allowing people to finish.

LordSutch · 08-02-2011 11:07AM

fred252 wrote: »

not passing comment on what was said last night but Kenny was an annoying git cutting across doherty (and others) before they had a chance to finish a coherent point. also doherty got less airtime than the others but maybe this is justified as SF have a smaller mandate...

But in all fairness PD was out of his depth, his SF economic figures just didn't add up, he was unable to get his message across, and he seemed to be all over the place, so much so, that he went very quiet long before the end of the debate. Sinn Fein know that they cannot get into Government this Dail, so they are flinging anything & everything around, hollow ideas, with a lack of any 'REAL' substance.

I will say that Mr Doherty can talk, he surely can, but his poilices are total rubbish.

FRIENDO · 08-02-2011 11:18AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The economist also said SFs figures dont add up and it is not as simple as they make it out to be. He completely dismissed their policies as fantasy.

He did say Doherty is in the best position to renegotiate but SF dont want to renegotiate, they want to reject the bailout. That comment is irrelevant because SF are seeking votes based on rejecting the bailout, not renegotiating it so the belief that they are in a good position to renegotiate means nothing because they are not going to do it.

Get your facts right.

From a working man's point of view if my trade union rep was to say yes to management to what ever deal was offered we would always end up with the worst deal (FG, Labour and FF).
However when they say NO with a strong leadership we would be offered the best deal.

anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

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