New York introduces outdoor smoking ban in public places.

Canis Lupus · 04-02-2011 03:16PM

Reillyman wrote: »

But do you not see how daft that is? If I'm at work/college and have 30mins off, you expect me to go home to have a smoke?

The only consolation I take from this is the anti-smoking brigade are only a vocal minority. Most non-smokers I know have no problem whatsoever with people smoking, but as the silent majority they just wouldn't feel strongly about it to counter the "smoking is the devil" lot...

You just have a sneaky one. It'll be like being 14 again. You'll be sticking it to the man.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-02-2011 03:16PM

Reillyman wrote: »

Most non-smokers I know have no problem whatsoever with people smoking,

I bet given the choice they'd rather you didn't smoke.

I bet given the choice they'd rather not walk through a pall of smoke on the way into a shoping center, pub, cafe or any other public building.

Given a choice I bet they'd rather walk up Grafton street on a warm summer's day and not be in the wake of a smoker.

Its a disgusting habit, I hope they follow suit and ban smoking in public here too.

And I'd go so far as to ban it in car's too, esp. those carrying children.. I think we need law's to protect the innocents from smokers.

strobe · 04-02-2011 03:17PM

seamus wrote: »

As in, not dealt with at all?

€5,000 minimum fine sounds good to me.

Then your complaint should be in regards to littering without a singular focus on smokers.

5K sounds good to me too.

Reillyman · 04-02-2011 03:23PM

Noah Unsightly Trash wrote: »

Its a disgusting habit, I hope they follow suit and ban smoking in public here too.

You may think it's disgusting, I think it's great, each to their own.

My point is I don't understand how it's acceptable to say this to smokers alone? Surely you'd think that binging on fast-food is disgusting, but would you say this to an overweight person? For example I might think your avatar is disgusting but I don't say that because it's rude, do ya understand what I'm getting at?

dark crystal · 04-02-2011 03:24PM

Noah Unsightly Trash wrote: »

And I'd go so far as to ban it in car's too, esp. those carrying children.. I think we need law's to protect the innocents from smokers.

Lol, that should be the next Brass Eye special....evil smokers!! Won't someone please think of the children???

Perhaps all smokers could be rounded up into their own little ghetto, whilst the virtuous non smokers decided which one of them got shot. No more smokers - no more deadly risk to the populace!

I like it.

pwd · 04-02-2011 03:26PM

seamus wrote: »

Of course it is, it just takes a tiny bit more effort. Stub it out properly, check that it's not still smouldering and stick it in your pocket.

They stink. They make anything they come into contact for long stink. They have bits of ash on them. Even carrying them around in a little box gets disgusting pretty quickly. Putting cigarette butts directly into your pocket is a filthy thing to do, and you would ruin your clothes pretty quickly.

For the people who haven't read everything and are about to pounce and say "But it's disgusting to litter them too!" - I rarely do that.

My name is URL · 04-02-2011 03:27PM

Noah Unsightly Trash wrote: »

I think we need law's to protect the innocents from smokers.

lmao.. protect the innocents? That's a bizarre statement tbh. Sure while we're at it lets bring in all sorts of obtuse laws.. ban drinking in public to cut down on street violence, ban driving to protect pedestrians.. ban people from owning dog breeds which have been known to maim children.

Gone Drinking · 04-02-2011 03:28PM

The publicans went mad.. what will the parkicans say?

People staying home, with fake trees and grass so they can smoke and at the same time enjoy a public park

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-02-2011 03:30PM

Reillyman wrote: »

You may think it's disgusting, I think it's great, each to their own.

My point is I don't understand how it's acceptable to say this to smokers alone? Surely you'd think that binging on fast-food is disgusting, but would you say this to an overweight person? For example I might think your avatar is disgusting but I don't say that because it's rude, do ya understand what I'm getting at?

Just say it, you don't like cock - right?.

Wibbs · 04-02-2011 03:30PM

seamus wrote:

I don't know any smokers who have opted out of their usual pub visits because of the smoking ban. Most non-smokers I know attend pubs more often now than before the smoking ban.

I know a fair few who have massively reduced their pub time since the ban. People also go to pubs later and leave earlier. Try getting a seat in a Dublin city centre pub at 9 PM at the weekend in 1998 compared to now. Plus the number of pubs going out of business in the year after the smoking ban(when we were still little celtic cubs BTW) was in the 100's. If more non smokers are attending pubs how come so many pubs find it hard to keep their doors open(though non smokers tend to drink less anyway. Less impulsive and less dry mouth) The smoking ban clearly had an effect across the pub trade. The size of that effect may be in debate.

My name is URL wrote:

If they're gonna do it they should do it for the right reasons without relying on the health concerns which people have about second hand smoke. New York isn't exactly free from industrial and automotive pollutants, and those things damage the air quality far more than cigarette smoke. The smog over the city is as thick as cloud on some days.

People really are fools.. they'll praise this as if it's genuinely going to have a positive impact on their lives while at the same time remain seemingly oblivious to the other toxins they breathe on a daily basis.

This. I wouldn't call people fools, but they will tend to buy into/be brainwashed into whatever meme is fashionable at the time quite easily. EG saturated fat is baaaad for you. Pity it's really not. Vegetable oil with a couple of notable exceptions is worse for you and transfats are even worse again. Cholesterol baaaad? Not so much. It's part of a process. Saying Cholesterol is bad is akin to blaming the increased presence of firemen at a house blaze for the blaze itself. How much are some of ye spending on those little yoghurts with the "good bacteria", while wiping every bloody surface you can find with antiseptics and at the slightest sign of a sniffle are asking your doctor for antibiotics? I bet a load of people out there think antibiotics kill viruses.

Now the litter aspect I can see with the public places thing. The "health" aspect? Think about this. Statistically if you smoke 20 a day from 18 and stop at 30, your overall life expectancy will not change. Yep you read that right. Statistically it will not change. If you continue to 40 years of age and stop, your life expectancy will reduce by..... 1 year. Yep you read that right too. That's primary and your own secondary smoke(apparently some tool has come up with tertiary smoking, but.. well he's a tool). So "second hand smoke" is killing people in their thousands? Give me an ever loving break. If the barest whiff of smoke, cigarette or otherwise gives you lung convulsions or being in a smoky pub gives you death, how in gods name are your pathetically weak gene's still around? I say more thinning of the herd, not less.

BTW I say this as an ex smoker. Yep not all of us turn into reformed whores and giant self righteous pains in the arse.

/end rant.

Canis Lupus · 04-02-2011 03:31PM

Reillyman wrote: »

You may think it's disgusting, I think it's great, each to their own.

My point is I don't understand how it's acceptable to say this to smokers alone? Surely you'd think that binging on fast-food is disgusting, but would you say this to an overweight person? For example I might think your avatar is disgusting but I don't say that because it's rude, do ya understand what I'm getting at?

Your stereotypical fast food eater hurts themselves primarily. Bits of burger don't fly about and get eaten by the non fast food eaters. Generally fast food wrappers are recycable nowadays or at least get put in bins.

Your smoking affects others both with the secondary smoke and the buts the vast majority of you dump on the ground.

Whilst you think it's great your opinion is also in the minority. To the non smokers, smoking is infinitly more disgusting than watching a fat person eating a bigmac and seemingly NY agrees with this as well.

Wompa1 · 04-02-2011 03:34PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MToRvo5RExg

dark crystal · 04-02-2011 03:37PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Your stereotypical fast food eater hurts themselves primarily. Bits of burger don't fly about and get eaten by the non fast food eaters. Generally fast food wrappers are recycable nowadays or at least get put in bins.

Your smoking affects others both with the secondary smoke and the buts the vast majority of you dump on the ground.

Whilst you think it's great your opinion is also in the minority. To the non smokers, smoking is infinitly more disgusting than watching a fat person eating a bigmac and seemingly NY agrees with this as well.

As a non dog owner, finding dog sh!t and p!ss on public streets is just as offensive to me as a non smoker finds cigarette butts. It's also dangerous, but you don't see anyone banning dogs from walking the streets, do you?

Oh and I often see discarded fast food wrappers on the streets - not everyone who eats junk food does so in a restaurant. Want to ban public eating too?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-02-2011 03:45PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I know a fair few who have massively reduced their pub time since the ban. People also go to pubs later and leave earlier. Try getting a seat in a Dublin city centre pub at 9 PM at the weekend in 1998 compared to now. Plus the number of pubs going out of business in the year after the smoking ban(when we were still little celtic cubs BTW) was in the 100's. If more non smokers are attending pubs how come so many pubs find it hard to keep their doors open(though non smokers tend to drink less anyway. Less impulsive and less dry mouth) The smoking ban clearly had an effect across the pub trade. The size of that effect may be in debate.

I was working in pubs/clubs during the transition from smoking to non-smoking, and believe me - the ban KILLED the pub trade.. Its BS that more people go to a pub now because of the smoking ban.

Personally I love it, but I'm a non smoking drinker so I would.

I'm not sure if there are figures available, but I know within weeks of the smoking ban bar staff were losing hours & jobs due to its effects.

Lumen · 04-02-2011 03:45PM

West coast solution...

greenbutts: biodegradable plantable cigarette filters

04-02-2011 03:47PM

dark crystal wrote: »

It's also dangerous, but you don't see anyone banning dogs from walking the streets, do you?

Dogs don't know it's illegal or offensive to sh1t on the streets. Their owners do though. The same as smokers who throw their butts on the path know its both illegal AND offensive to do so....but yet they still do it.... Right, if you want to smoke .go ahead , but have consideration for your neighbour and clean up after yourself. Take responsibility for your actions....

frank reynolds · 04-02-2011 03:47PM

this is the biggest pile of gank i've ever heard. who cares if they banned it. its not going to stop people from doing it. it's outdoors. there's only so many patrolled areas and you'd get away with it more than 90% of the time i'd say. it'll fizzle out after the hype is gone.

ALL non smokers are usually addicted to something else. usually fatty fast food or internet p0rn. non smokers make me sick.

Canis Lupus · 04-02-2011 03:47PM

dark crystal wrote: »

As a non dog owner, finding dog sh!t and p!ss on public streets is just as offensive to me as a non smoker finds cigarette butts. It's also dangerous, but you don't see anyone banning dogs from walking the streets, do you?

Oh and I often see discarded fast food wrappers on the streets - not everyone who eats junk food does so in a restaurant. Want to ban public eating too?

Dogs are cute that's why.

Eating is sort of necessary and the majority put their wrappers in the bin.

Long story short tho, I don't smoke (anymore :P ) and so this totally doesn't bother me. See how nice it is to be free of cigs, I don't have to get stressed over a smoking ban

pwd · 04-02-2011 03:50PM

Wibbs wrote: »

How much are some of ye spending on those little yoghurts with the "good bacteria", while wiping every bloody surface you can find with antiseptics and at the slightest sign of a sniffle are asking your doctor for antibiotics?

Use of many antibacterial cleaning agents, such as those in antibacterial soap, is thought to result in bacteria gaining immunity to antibiotics. Traditional cleaning solutions such as bleach, alcohol, lemon juice, vinegar, do not have this effect.

Also using antibiotics when you dont need them will lead to bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics. Not finishing a course of antibiotics is especially bad, because more bacteria survive to develop the resistance.

I exercise little, sleep irregularly, dont have a healthy diet, and I smoke: Yet I almost never get sick. The people I know who get sick the most tend to adhere to the strictest and most restrictive "healthy" lifestyles.

mikemac · 04-02-2011 03:50PM

Sorta seen the same in Ireland when I worked in a hotel during the transition

The smokers had to go outside and we had a beer garden out there.

We serve sandwiches, soup and some basic food and during the summer people would take it outside and sit in the beer garden.
Or on a hot day (rare enough in Ireland) take their cold pint outside, Bulmers & ice mainly.

And then complain to me about the smokers outside.
What can you do to satisfy people?

ixoy · 04-02-2011 03:51PM

dark crystal wrote: »

As a non dog owner, finding dog sh!t and p!ss on public streets is just as offensive to me as a non smoker finds cigarette butts. It's also dangerous, but you don't see anyone banning dogs from walking the streets, do you?

Of course it's disgusting and owners are fined but I don't find dog crap every damn section of every street I walk down like I do with cigarette butts.

Oh and I often see discarded fast food wrappers on the streets - not everyone who eats junk food does so in a restaurant. Want to ban public eating too?

Most people I see eating in public, dispose of their rubbish in bins. Most smokers that I see do not, flicking it onto the ground even when there's a bin nearby.

Mark Hamill · 04-02-2011 03:55PM

Reillyman wrote: »

You may think it's disgusting, I think it's great, each to their own.

My point is I don't understand how it's acceptable to say this to smokers alone? Surely you'd think that binging on fast-food is disgusting, but would you say this to an overweight person? For example I might think your avatar is disgusting but I don't say that because it's rude, do ya understand what I'm getting at?

Second smoke is dangerous to non smokers health and makes clothes stink (even if you aren't in it for very long). There is no such thing as second hand fast food binging, someone pigging out might not be very nice to look at, but it doesn't effect other peoples health.
This is so blantanty obvious that, frankly, the only conclusion I can come to is that those who are against the ban just dont give a sh*t about the health of others, so I dont see why I should respect their desire to smoke over that of someone who, for instance, drink drives with no care for hitting someone. You want to satisfy your dangerous-to-others habit and you dont care about the consequences to others, so get stuffed.

enda1 · 04-02-2011 03:58PM

I don't think its anything to do with rubbish in fairness. I mean its a positive side effect that street rubbish should be reduced, but its not the primary concern I imagine.

The public health issue is the primary one here. I fully support this ban as I think that on public land, its the government's responsibility to reduce as much as possible any risk to my health which exists. This is why they install pedestrianised streets, footpaths, catalytic converters in cars, particle filters in diesel cars, etc. etc.

Smoking active or passive is known to have a terrible effect on the health of people - therefore we need to reduce the exposure of those that do not take part in it actively. Seems a logical progression to me and one I hope Ireland will have the sense to adopt.

Mark Hamill · 04-02-2011 03:58PM

My name is URL wrote: »

lmao.. protect the innocents? That's a bizarre statement tbh. Sure while we're at it lets bring in all sorts of obtuse laws.. ban drinking in public to cut down on street violence,

It is illegal to be drunk in public.

My name is URL wrote: »

ban driving to protect pedestrians..

Dangerous driving is illegal. There is no such thing as safe or healthy smoking.

My name is URL wrote: »

ban people from owning dog breeds which have been known to maim children.

You are legally required to have dangerous dogs muzzled, and its perfectly possible anyway to have any dog breed well behaved and safe around people (its to do with how you treat them).
There is no safe way to smoke. Any ciggarette you smoke around me effects my health, starting off short term and building up to long term if you keep doing it.

dark crystal · 04-02-2011 04:03PM

feelingstressed wrote: »

What can you do to satisfy people?

Make cigarettes illegal. Until we do so, smokers have every right to smoke outdoors as they wish.

Legally, they are doing nothing wrong. It's just certain non smokers who like to feel that little bit more superior by calling smokers names and bemoaning how disgusting smokers are, that cause the most fuss.

Short of banning smoking altogether, there is nothing you can do to please those people.

There's also a huge amount of hypochondria assosciated with some of the claims non smokers make. They honestly believe being within spitting distance of a smoker outside will harm them in some way, yet will happily breath in car exhaust fumes and say nothing about the ill-effects their cars may have on others.

My name is URL · 04-02-2011 04:03PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Any ciggarette you smoke around me effects my health, starting off short term and building up to long term if you keep doing it.

Do you drive or use public transport? Do you use fuel to heat your home? If somebody who doesn't drive makes the point that nobody else should because it pollutes their airspace is it a valid point or would you brush it aside as nonsense?

Mark Hamill · 04-02-2011 04:06PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Now the litter aspect I can see with the public places thing. The "health" aspect? Think about this. Statistically if you smoke 20 a day from 18 and stop at 30, your overall life expectancy will not change. Yep you read that right. Statistically it will not change. If you continue to 40 years of age and stop, your life expectancy will reduce by..... 1 year. Yep you read that right too.

The issue is not your health, but those around you.

Wibbs wrote: »

So "second hand smoke" is killing people in their thousands? Give me an ever loving break. If the barest whiff of smoke, cigarette or otherwise gives you lung convulsions or being in a smoky pub gives you death, how in gods name are your pathetically weak gene's still around?

Second hand smoke causes cancer the same way that primary smoke caused cancer, genious.

Wibbs wrote: »

I say more thinning of the herd, not less.

The herd will be better off without the likes of people who come up with or who are taken in by inane arguments the likes of which you have presented here.

dark crystal · 04-02-2011 04:09PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Second hand smoke causes cancer the same way that primary smoke caused cancer, genius

.

FYP

Deisekickboxing · 04-02-2011 04:14PM

Don't think its bout just smoking, mpre ways to relieve
People of a few more coppers tp fu.d the fatcats,
Sure there's already a fresh air tax in 1 eu country

Mark Hamill · 04-02-2011 04:16PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Do you drive or use public transport? Do you use fuel to heat your home? If somebody who doesn't drive makes the point that nobody else should because it pollutes their airspace is it a valid point or would you brush it aside as nonsense?

Ah yes, the "someone will always be polluting the air, so why should i stop" BS.
The problem with it is that our society kinda requires all those vehicles to keep it at the level it is at. We lose all of our vehicles and we cant keep up reparing our infrastructure and technology, import and export slows to a crawl, basically human progress stops.

Lets look at smoking, ok so we stop everyone smoking in public places and .... oh sh*t!, non smokers health is no longer effect by second hand smoke, some smokers will give up out of necessity and their health will improve and all without slowing down human progress.

Now our health will still be effected by all those vehicles (which just means that we should be constantly on the look out for better ways to move around), but we will have, overall, reduced the poisons we are inflicted on it in an way that has no down sides.

we may not be able to fix all of the problems we inflict upon ourselves, but that is no excuse for not fixing any.

New York introduces outdoor smoking ban in public places.

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