New York introduces outdoor smoking ban in public places.

Run_to_da_hills

New York has gone a step further with smoking bans and has now provoked lighting up in public parks, plazas and beaches.

Ireland was only a short time behind New Yorks initial ban in indoor public places, i guess it wont be too long before you will be fined for lighting up in In outdoor public places here.

The funny thing about all this is that the fine for being caught smoking a fag would be more than that for smoking a spliff

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1353091/New-York-smoking-ban-spreads-Central-Park-public-places.html

Jesus Wept

Good stuff.

prinz

New York.......you made me do this *lights up* Ooooooooh yeah *sunbathes on beach*

NoDice

.....oh shit.. They're coming for us... *hides with precious stinky ashtray*

ishvalian

Well that's bent!

RichieC

Land of the free indeed.

spider guardian

Can't see this being brought in over here. The pubs are badly hit as it is. Besides everyone knows the real craic goes on in the smoking areas!

Jesus Wept

RichieC wrote: »

Land of the free indeed.

You can't legally punch people in the lungs either.

Dravokivich

RichieC wrote: »

Land of the free indeed.

you're a dinosuar plisken!

shayser

Paradise can't be that far away now, surely...

Canis Lupus

RichieC wrote: »

Land of the free indeed.

Well smokers imposed their smoking and the resulting buts on the non smokers since forever and now the non smokers are fighting back.

I don't really see the problem with the ban.

RichieC

The-Rigger wrote: »

You can't legally punch people in the lungs either.

Don't be fking ridiculous..

Duggy747

I can understand beaches, fag butts in the sand is a bit manky.

I couldn't see it being brought over here, especially parks: 1) Who would respect the law and 2) who would be prickish enough to ring the Gardaì on a guy sitting on a bench having a fag?*

*rhetorical question :pac:

strobe

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Well smokers imposed their smoking and the resulting buts on the non smokers since forever and now the non smokers are fighting back.

I don't really see the problem with the ban.

...and the smokers that don't throw their buts on the ground or 'impose' their smoking on other people? Perhaps we should legislate against people eating outside too on the off chance some of them throw their wrappers or leftovers on the ground?

Jesus Wept

RichieC wrote: »

Don't be fking ridiculous..

I won't be.

RichieC

Duggy747 wrote: »

who would prickish enough to ring the Gardaì on a guy sitting on a bench having a fag?

The kinda pricks who would support such a draconian violation of freedom.

dark crystal

Ridiculous.

Have they banned cars too, because exhaust fumes are far more hazardous to non smokers than cigarette smoke outdoors.

I honestly don't know why smokers get such a raw and unfair deal from governments, who are only too happy to take the money they stump up for their (totally legal) habit.

If governments believe them to be such a danger as to warrant banning their use outdoors, then why not just ban them completely and be done with it?

TobyZiegler

Totally agree with the work place smoking ban but surely this is taking things a bit too far?

Couldnt the people who will now be out imposing the fine for smoking just have been sent out to clamp down on littering and told to fine people who threw cigarettes on the ground?

NoDice

It's defo not as acceptable in the US as it is here though imo. I lit up walking through Orlando a few years ago and people looked at me as if I had just skinned a cuddly, fluffy puppy whilst humping Micky Mouse in a clown outift or something. Some woman actually gasped when she saw me take out a cigarette box from my bag.

smellslikeshoes

I'm anti smoking but personally I think this is a step too far. Who's to say that this isn't the first step in them starting to ban things outright, smoking=banned, alcohol = banned fastfood = banned etc.
Someone smoking on the beach is hardly going to impact on the health of other people.

Duggy747

dark crystal wrote: »

Have they banned cars too, because exhaust fumes are far more hazardous to non smokers than cigarette smoke outdoors.

Many people I've met don't think car exhausts are worse than second-hand smoke. I've never heard of anyone commiting suicide in a garage with cigeratte smoke :pac:

Yakult

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

.

The funny thing about all this is that the fine for being caught smoking a fag would be more than that for smoking a spliff

Isnt it the same here? Cheaper to get get caught smoking a spliff rather than tobacco?

Orando Broom

RichieC wrote: »

Land of the free indeed.

Whoever told you that is your enemy.

Canis Lupus

strobe wrote: »

...and the smokers that don't throw their buts on the ground or 'impose' their smoking on other people? Perhaps we should legislate against people eating outside too on the off chance some of them throw their wrappers or leftovers on the ground?

Collateral damage

Wompa1

Meh. Don't smoke and don't particularly care. I was in Las Vegas a few months ago where people smoke everywhere and was in Greece a few years ago with people smoking. I'd be happier if people weren't allowed to smoke around me..if it's in a park I don't care...I think Chicago has a ban on smoking in parks where they have a playground which sounds kind of fair....

But in a park you'd imagine the smoke you would just disapate in the air pretty quick. But again I don't care, it's fine with me

dark crystal

By the way, slightly off topic, but is it legal to smoke a herbal cigarette in a public space? All natural ingredients, no chemicals etc...

These type of cigarettes don't have any of the same risks assosciated with the normal kind, so it would seem pointless banning them as they pose no risk to the non smoker, no?

Badgermonkey

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Well smokers imposed their smoking and the resulting buts on the non smokers since forever and now the non smokers are fighting back.

I don't really see the problem with the ban.

I don't smoke but to prevent those who wish to engage in it from doing so in the outdoors seems excessively nannyish to me.

Unfortunately smokers have always had a blindspot, whereby they don't regard their cigarette butts as litter. Their casual dispersal of same does their argument no favours.

Minstrel27

It is a bit excessive from the law makers in New York.

Dr. Baltar

A fantastic step in the right direction. I'm going to write to my local TDs and ask them to bring this in. Hey, while we're at it, we should also fine people for eating unhealthy foods in public! Oh! And we should ban cars too! They're bad for the environment, bad for my health!

Hell, let's shut down pubs altogether! Nuter our children so they don't have unprotected sex! A liberal paradise for all! :rolleyes:

seamus

The clean air claim is nonsense, obviously. Cigarette butts are an issue as smokers universally seem to think that cigarette butts aren't rubbish and throw them on the ground as soon as they're done. Go anywhere that smokers congregate and you'll see butts everywhere.

It's much easier to catch someone who's actually smoking than someone who's after throwing a butt on the ground, so banning smoking a way easier than catching people littering, but it does seem to be needlessly prohibitive. Just make it a massive fine (say $5,000) for throwing a fag on the ground and most people will cop on.

The pubs are badly hit as it is.

Yes, it's all to do with the smoking ban. Nothing to do with insane prices and piss-poor customer awareness.

strobe

Badgermonkey wrote: »

I don't smoke but to prevent those who wish to engage in it from doing so in the outdoors seems excessively nannyish to me.

Unfortunately some smokers have always had a blindspot, whereby they don't regard their cigarette butts as litter. Their casual dispersal of same does their argument no favours.

fyp

Wompa1

seamus wrote: »

The clean air claim is nonsense, obviously. Cigarette butts are an issue as smokers universally seem to think that cigarette butts aren't rubbish and throw them on the ground as soon as they're done. Go anywhere that smokers congregate and you'll see butts everywhere.

It's much easier to catch someone who's actually smoking than someone who's after throwing a butt on the ground, so banning smoking a way easier than catching people littering, but it does seem to be needlessly prohibitive. Just make it a massive fine (say $5,000) for throwing a fag on the ground and most people will cop on.

Yes, it's all to do with the smoking ban. Nothing to do with insane prices and piss-poor customer awareness.

That's true. It's similar to the ban on chewing gum in Singapore. Easier to ban the selling of chewing gum than catch people throwing in on the foot paths.

DublinWriter

They came for the smokers,
I am a smoker,
Oh sh*t.

Now it's only a hop, skip and jump to enforced Tai Chi and compulsory granola.

It's amazing how prophetic The Dead Kennedy's California Uber Alles really is.

Dr. Baltar

seamus wrote: »

The clean air claim is nonsense, obviously. Cigarette butts are an issue as smokers universally seem to think that cigarette butts aren't rubbish and throw them on the ground as soon as they're done. Go anywhere that smokers congregate and you'll see butts everywhere. .

Congratulations on stereotyping all smokers. :mad:

I'll have you know, that when I am done smoking I always throw into the top of a bin/stub it out and put in the bin/stub it out and put it in my pocket until I find a bin.

dark crystal

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it's all to do with the smoking ban. Nothing to do with insane prices and piss-poor customer awareness.

The smoking ban has had a huge effect on the demise of the pub trade, actually - you may dismiss this as a fallacy, but many smokers don't enjoy being banished into the cold whilst trying to enjoy their drinks. It's not so bad in the summer, but during the winter, many smokers opt to stay in the comfort of their own homes, rather than brave the arctic conditions of the Irish weather!

I'm a smoker myself and would very, very rarely go out for a drink for this reason alone. It's the same for many other smokers I know, too.

My name is URL

If they're gonna do it they should do it for the right reasons without relying on the health concerns which people have about second hand smoke. New York isn't exactly free from industrial and automotive pollutants, and those things damage the air quality far more than cigarette smoke. The smog over the city is as thick as cloud on some days.

People really are fools.. they'll praise this as if it's genuinely going to have a positive impact on their lives while at the same time remain seemingly oblivious to the other toxins they breathe on a daily basis.

Canis Lupus

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

Congratulations on stereotyping all smokers. :mad:

I'll have you know, that when I am done smoking I always throw into the top of a bin/stub it out and put in the bin/stub it out and put it in my pocket until I find a bin.

Ah come on you're in the vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast minority on this one. But well done, medal is in the post.

Pherekydes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

New York has gone a step further with smoking bans and has now provoked lighting up in public parks, plazas and beaches.

Don't know about those Yanks, but no one is going to provoke me into smoking, anywhere, any time.

RichieC

dark crystal wrote: »

By the way, slightly off topic, but is it legal to smoke a herbal cigarette in a public space? All natural ingredients, no chemicals etc...

These type of cigarettes don't have any of the same risks assosciated with the normal kind, so it would seem pointless banning them as they pose no risk to the non smoker, no?

I'd imagine it's not ideal putting any kinda smoke in your lungs tbh.

pwd

seamus wrote: »

The clean air claim is nonsense, obviously. Cigarette butts are an issue as smokers universally seem to think that cigarette butts aren't rubbish and throw them on the ground as soon as they're done. Go anywhere that smokers congregate and you'll see butts everywhere.

It's much easier to catch someone who's actually smoking than someone who's after throwing a butt on the ground, so banning smoking a way easier than catching people littering, but it does seem to be needlessly prohibitive. Just make it a massive fine (say $5,000) for throwing a fag on the ground and most people will cop on.

Yes, it's all to do with the smoking ban. Nothing to do with insane prices and piss-poor customer awareness.

or or or
provide enough bins with ashtrays.

A cigarette butt isn't like a bit of paper you can stick in your pocket until you come across a bin. That's why people often drop them on the ground, even if they would otherwise never litter.

Personally I make an effort not to drop butts on the ground; which means I know how very inconvenient it can be to avoid this.

I agree with you in principle though!

seamus

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

Congratulations on stereotyping all smokers. :mad:

I'll have you know, that when I am done smoking I always throw into the top of a bin/stub it out and put in the bin/stub it out and put it in my pocket until I find a bin.

You're one of the statistically negligible few. Even where specific bins are provided for cigarette butts, you will see them all over the ground.

When I bought my current place, the previous owners were smokers but smoked outside cos they had a child. The balcony upstairs was littered with cigarette butts - all over the floor, and jammed into various nooks and crannies on the balcony. The bin was 3m away. That's the general mentality of smokers in my experience. Littering on their own homes because butts just aren't considered litter for whatever reason.
I walk by the houses of neighbours who smoke outside, and the path outside their front door is covered in cigarette butts. All of them, without exception. They wouldn't throw coffee cups or crisp bags there, so I don't know why cigarettes are OK.

dark crystal wrote: »

I'm a smoker myself and would very, very rarely go out for a drink for this reason alone. It's the same for many other smokers I know, too.

I don't know any smokers who have opted out of their usual pub visits because of the smoking ban. Most non-smokers I know attend pubs more often now than before the smoking ban.

A cigarette butt isn't like a bit of paper you can stick in your pocket until you come across a bin.

Of course it is, it just takes a tiny bit more effort. Stub it out properly, check that it's not still smouldering and stick it in your pocket.

RichieC

seamus wrote: »

You're one of the statistically negligible few.

where are you getting these statistics? would you mind citing them?

seamus

Yes, it's from the Observational evidence report, 2011. I can provide you with a copy of this report, but you will have to pay me €10,000 to transcribe it from my brain.

Canis Lupus

RichieC wrote: »

where are you getting these statistics? would you mind citing them?

Pendantic much.......

dark crystal

RichieC wrote: »

I'd imagine it's not ideal putting any kinda smoke in your lungs tbh.

Seems there's a loophole alright:

http://www.castlebar.ie/news/smoking-ban.shtml

Can't see it being worth the hassle, though and they are utterly vile things anyway

RichieC

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Pendantic much.......

Quite.

dsmythy

Whoa, I'm all for the ban in indoor public places but this is too far.

positron

I for one support it. We had a thread here about doing the same here in Ireland, and a poll, and I think it came out 50:50, so yes, Well done NY, and hope others will follow.

TanG411

I don't smoke, but still think this ban may be a bit too much.

strobe

seamus wrote: »

You're one of the statistically negligible few. Even where specific bins are provided for cigarette butts, you will see them all over the ground.

When I bought my current place, the previous owners were smokers but smoked outside cos they had a child. The balcony upstairs was littered with cigarette butts - all over the floor, and jammed into various nooks and crannies on the balcony. The bin was 3m away. That's the general mentality of smokers in my experience. Littering on their own homes because butts just aren't considered litter for whatever reason.
I walk by the houses of neighbours who smoke outside, and the path outside their front door is covered in cigarette butts. All of them, without exception. They wouldn't throw coffee cups or crisp bags there, so I don't know why cigarettes are OK.

Then it should be dealt with in the same way all littering is.

seamus

strobe wrote: »

Then it should be dealt with in the same way all littering is.

As in, not dealt with at all?

€5,000 minimum fine sounds good to me.