Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

avoidspammers · 02-02-2011 10:29PM

The_Thing wrote: »

Strike pay per day is less than my daily salary, therefore I intend to pass any picket there may be, sit in my office, do practically nothing each day for the duration of the strike, and get paid for it. I might even bring in my laptop to watch a movie or two.

Aren't you an absentee farmer also?? If you stayed out on strike and fired your minimum wage farmhand for the duration of the strike and did his/her work, wouldn't that be more profitable when you take into account the savings you would make on paying farm wages while collecting your strike pay?

Just a thought....

A.S.

avoidspammers · 02-02-2011 10:41PM

noodler wrote: »

Strike, see how much support you get for your childish attitudes.

Surely people do not resort to strike action to seek approval from the general population? I find that remark itself quite childish on a number of levels.

Basic fact of the matter is a majority of the PS have made promises to save money via efficiencies and if there is no progress made by the third quarter then issues within the PS will have to be looked at again (says the MOU).

I agree, why did FF not enforce these issues then seeing as they were armed with the CPA? - Yes armed, you seem to think the CPA is a hindrance, it's not if it is used as initially intended. A nurse, Garda, Teacher, Clerk etc cannot decide to implement these efficiencies and you know this also.

Can I use my contributions to a private pension fund a pay cut like the PS do?

You are being facetious here. Were your private pension fund payments given to you free as part of your initial contract ?? And then taken away? I seriously doubt it (although I do not pretend to know your situation). So, it is fair to say that IT IS a pay cut for PS workers.

A.S.

Galmay · 03-02-2011 12:07AM

Just to update some people on the CPA. I work in the PS and the CPA is being implemented as we speak and with huge urgency. I can only speak for my area of the health sector but the extended working day 8-8 is starting in a number of weeks with moves to 5/6 and 5/7 working weeks. This in turn is providing greater service flexibility and reducing the hours for which premium anti-social hours payments apply. Hopefully this is being replicated across the PS.

In addition, as part of the CPA, the premium payments themselves are being negotiated downwards (significantly so in some cases) between various unions, HSE and Labour relations commission. This is likely to happen but not certain as i think union membership have to ratify any changes before they are implemented (this isnt covered by CPA, CPA only agrees that all parties will begin negotiations).

It is in effect another paycut, so I think any future reductions in PS pay should be more targeted and confined to those sectors which refuse to change.

avoidspammers · 03-02-2011 12:15AM

If I could draw everybody's attention to the crux of the problem: (The Banking Sector)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/irelands-credit-rating-further-downgraded-491862.html

A.S.

noodler · 03-02-2011 12:17AM

avoidspammers wrote: »

If I could draw everybody's attention to the crux of the problem: (The Banking Sector)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/irelands-credit-rating-further-downgraded-491862.html

A.S.

Stop deflecting.

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 10:35AM

noodler wrote: »

Strange inference to make based on one month's returns.

Anyway, with how lopsided our income tax base I don't think the Government had an option bu to expand it.

This is in comparison to January of last year...so its not just one month but on a year to year basis...Did the income tax not increase for everyone in the last budget yet it is still 6% lower than last year...If anything it will go down more when people who are getting less in their takehome pay decide to leave

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 10:39AM

ardmacha wrote: »

Dole was increased more in the boom than PS wages were.

It is people buying overpriced houses that caused this mess.

The pension was increased more in the boom than PS wages were.

Because they are citizens of a democratic society and they have to pay their share.

P.S wage increaased by a lot more than what they got cut by aswell so under your ideology they should be cut. You have actually made my point for me ...Good man

But citizens who reach the point of diminishing returns with their tax take will leave ...Which deepens the problem..It was proven in the late 70s when for 12 years they tried to tax the sh1t out of the country...hense the emmigration problem in the 80s and it was only then a chainsaw was taken to public spend in the late 80s that the country changed...

Can you show me figures where social increased by more than p.s wage?

Can you show me where people buying houses caused this mess?

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 10:43AM

dissed doc wrote: »

It is a reason why I left, that so many in Ireland aspire to the American way of existence - gated communities, private police and private healthcare, buying big TVs while complaining about lousy hospitals. I would think Ireland is better suited to a society based like Netherlands or Denmark - but average Mick McMoron thinks paying the people who police the streets in a depression should have their paycut. Why don't you see how that worked out in the US?

No the average mick is suffering and cannot understand who 300k + people think they have entitlement to keep their astonishing high wage...Thats all the money is not there..

Have a look at big telly sales over the last 2/3 years I think I seen a figure of them being down by 60%.....

I was pointing out the fact that the likes of what happened with my gaurda team mate is indicitive of the waiste and no accountability that goes on in some sectors of the p.s ... I have also stated many times I think some people do a good job in the p.s

The p.s have been told to make reform and make saving via the cpa ..They have till sept. If they dont ...some will be asked to take redundancies...If they dont get the numbers then wage will be cut...Its simple math and you can pour on all the auld heartbleeding stories of this nurse is great that guard is a hero...and more credit too them...But the simple fact is that the money is not there...No matter what the argument that is the underlying defining problem

RichardAnd · 03-02-2011 10:49AM

fliball123 wrote: »

The p.s have been told to make reform and make saving via the cpa ..They have till sept. If they dont ...some will be asked to take redundancies...If they dont get the numbers then wage will be cut...Its simple math and you can poor on all the auld heartbleeding stories of this nurse is great that guard is a hero...and more credit too them...But the simple fact is that the money is not there...No matter what the argument that is the underlying defining problem

Regardless of what I personally think of the PS (and I will admit that I come from a very civil service family), this is a truth that I can't disagree with. When people complain about cuts, of any type, they would do well to remember that simple truth. There's nothing personal in trimming salaries or cutting chunk out of a persons SW payments, it's just something that needs to happen.

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 10:53AM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Regardless of what I personally think of the PS (and I will admit that I come from a very civil service family), this is a truth that I can't disagree with. When people complain about cuts, of any type, they would do well to remember that simple truth. There's nothing personal in trimming salaries or cutting chunk out of a persons SW payments, it's just something that needs to happen.

Very true...look I would be indicitive of the average private sector worker..Its nothing personal..if more fear....anyone who opened their paycheck this month is wondering where that cash has gone...Any way good luck to all in the p.s I hope that when the cuts are done..They are done in a decent manner

avoidspammers · 03-02-2011 12:35PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No the average mick is suffering and cannot understand who 300k + people think they have entitlement to keep their astonishing high wage...Thats all the money is not there..

Do not make a sweeping statement like that when in actual fact your reference to the "average mick", is actually to you. If you want to make a point, have the courage and conviction to simply state that "you cannot understand...". I doubt if the average person in Ireland would be pleased at your remark.

A.S.

avoidspammers · 03-02-2011 12:41PM

noodler wrote: »

Stop deflecting.

You seem to want to look at this problem in a vacuum. In that case, I cannot add anything further than to what has already been said. It is this type of thinking that has indeed got us into the predicament we are in today as a country i.e. a serious lack of joined-up thinking.

A.S.

not yet · 03-02-2011 01:19PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No the average mick is suffering and cannot understand who 300k + people think they have entitlement to keep their astonishing high wage...Thats all the money is not there..

Have a look at big telly sales over the last 2/3 years I think I seen a figure of them being down by 60%.....

I was pointing out the fact that the likes of what happened with my gaurda team mate is indicitive of the waiste and no accountability that goes on in some sectors of the p.s ... I have also stated many times I think some people do a good job in the p.s

The p.s have been told to make reform and make saving via the cpa ..They have till sept. If they dont ...some will be asked to take redundancies...If they dont get the numbers then wage will be cut...Its simple math and you can pour on all the auld heartbleeding stories of this nurse is great that guard is a hero...and more credit too them...But the simple fact is that the money is not there...No matter what the argument that is the underlying defining problem

You need to learn to spell before you come on here with that sh1te pal.

lyverbird1 · 03-02-2011 01:34PM

For the love of whatever deity you choose to believe in, please let this thread die. It's turned into a series of pointless editorials, personal whinging (on both sides), repeated and circular arguements and inaccurate claims. Please. Let. It. Go....

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 03:08PM

avoidspammers wrote: »

Do not make a sweeping statement like that when in actual fact your reference to the "average mick", is actually to you. If you want to make a point, have the courage and conviction to simply state that "you cannot understand...". I doubt if the average person in Ireland would be pleased at your remark.

A.S.

Well I bet the average tax payer would rather see a cut in costs and less raised by taxing...Or should we all just hand our cash over...Thats the crux of it Avoidspammers...If the cpa remains in place it means we the tax payer need to find 19billion (the last count) to pay your wage...So lets tax the fcuk out of everyone...i reckon the average Mick will become the average Shiela or George when they emmigrate due to taxes spiralling out of control.. So dont talk to me about courage...Hows about some courage from the p.s and unions to agree to cuts without the threat of strikes

fliball123 · 03-02-2011 03:09PM

not yet wrote: »

You need to learn to spell before you come on here with that sh1te pal.

Good man attack the poster and not the post

WalterMitty · 03-02-2011 03:28PM

Even without the bank cost there would still have to be massive austerity!

I think too many boil the problem down to the banking sector but the money the banking sector got was largely pumped back into economy generating more bubble activity and driving up asset prices, consumer demand, tax receipts etc so we , as a nation, got all that bank bailout money in the form of higher economc growth during the bubble years. We are simply giving back what we got in higher pay,pensions, welfare etc.

RichardAnd · 03-02-2011 03:52PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

Even without the bank cost there would still have to be massive austerity!

I think too many boil the problem down to the banking sector but the money the banking sector got was largely pumped back into economy generating more bubble activity and driving up asset prices, consumer demand, tax receipts etc so we , as a nation, got all that bank bailout money in the form of higher economc growth during the bubble years. We are simply giving back what we got in higher pay,pensions, welfare etc.

Walter, this post will not be well recieved by Joe Public. You have been warned

WalterMitty · 03-02-2011 04:55PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Walter, this post will not be well recieved by Joe Public. You have been warned

Joe Public watches X-factor, votes for the likes of Bertie Ahern and buys into every latest fad. I dont care about Joe Public I care about fact and truth however complex and annoying and frustrating it may be.

RichardAnd · 03-02-2011 05:20PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

Joe Public watches X-factor, votes for the likes of Bertie Ahern and buys into every latest fad. I dont care about Joe Public I care about fact and truth however complex and annoying and frustrating it may be.

And I agree whole heartedly with you but anyone that seems to say anything not to the effect of "FF/the greens/the bankers did it!", seems to get shouted down.

avoidspammers · 03-02-2011 09:52PM

Let's clarify/correct a two points here:

fliball123 wrote: »

Well I bet the average tax payer would rather see a cut in costs and less raised by taxing

The Public Service employees are also taxpayers despite your inference that only the private sector are.

If the cpa remains in place it means we the tax payer need to find 19billion

I trust you are getting the idea now? We are ALL the taxpayer.

to pay your wage.

To pay my wage?? What does that mean exactly? Can you please explain that comment in detail.

A.S.

Red Actor · 03-02-2011 10:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

ha, doesnt matter who is in power billions need to be cut
tough choice what would you rather more wage cuts? More taxes ? (same effect really)
Or maybe we close some of the hundreds of quangoes?

Take your pick, the money isnt there - it was thrown at the banks and now we are all gonna pay.

But goddamn nobody can make Cowen look like Einstein!

WITHDRAW

My understanding is that the savings under the CPA would come mainly from fewer people doing the same work (less total wages) and changing the premium hours for dthose work work 24/7 (no extra money until after 8 p.m. if it's part of your shift) - again less total wage.

According to page #3 of this http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/meb2011/Feb2011.pdf
there are 10,000 less public servants than a year ago. The FG plan to shed 30,000 is not an ambitious plan as, say 350,000 people in the public service will all be retired within 40 years so it suggests that about 9,000 would go each year (some will be there a bit longer but gardai, firefighters and army retire much quicker so I think it's a good enough guess).

Any unnecessary quangos should go but I'd rather a see a list of quangos, what they deliver (if anything), and what they cost instead of close the quangos mantra. (I think I might have a mission.) A small few of the biggest quangos (HSE, FAS, NRA) spend most of the quango money so you could close 100 or 500 quangos and save very little. Still worth saving if they're delivering little but I don't think that people should believe that getting rid of hundreds of quangos will save the €13bn quango money.

swampgas · 03-02-2011 11:45PM

avoidspammers wrote: »

Let's clarify/correct a two points here:

The Public Service employees are also taxpayers despite your inference that only the private sector are.

I trust you are getting the idea now? We are ALL the taxpayer.

To pay my wage?? What does that mean exactly? Can you please explain that comment in detail.

A.S.

The difference is that the private sector pay their taxes from income derived from the real economy, the public sector simply hand back some of the money they have been given by the (private sector) tax payer.

Imagine that the Public Sector pay no tax, but are instead given their net pay directly. They are still being funded by the private sector tax payer (or by money borrowed by the government).

The simple fact is that government expenditure, including the net salaries of public sector employees, comes from the tax collected from the private sector.

In that sense at least, we are not "all the taxpayer".

ardmacha · 03-02-2011 11:58PM

In that sense at least, we are not "all the taxpayer".

How about a driver tester, whose salary is covered by charges for driving tests?

Head The Wall · 04-02-2011 07:30AM

ardmacha wrote: »

How about a driver tester, whose salary is covered by charges for driving tests?

It goes into the government coffers the same as the health levy, neither are ringfenced

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 09:59AM

swampgas wrote: »

The difference is that the private sector pay their taxes from income derived from the real economy, the public sector simply hand back some of the money they have been given by the (private sector) tax payer.

Imagine that the Public Sector pay no tax, but are instead given their net pay directly. They are still being funded by the private sector tax payer (or by money borrowed by the government).

The simple fact is that government expenditure, including the net salaries of public sector employees, comes from the tax collected from the private sector.

In that sense at least, we are not "all the taxpayer".

This three keeps going in circles with the same posts posted that were posted 20 pages back.

Yes the private sector generates wealth but the public sector also lay the infrastructure for the private sector to generate that wealth.

They both work together and tbh one can't survive without the other.

Head The Wall · 04-02-2011 10:08AM

Great infrastructure my ass. They provide crappy services and infrastructure all the while making it very expensive and restrictive to do business here

fliball123 · 04-02-2011 10:26AM

avoidspammers wrote: »

Let's clarify/correct a two points here:

The Public Service employees are also taxpayers despite your inference that only the private sector are.

I trust you are getting the idea now? We are ALL the taxpayer.

To pay my wage?? What does that mean exactly? Can you please explain that comment in detail.

A.S.

True but your taxes are not going to pay my or any other private sector workers wage. Well doesnt the money that I pay in tax to go pay wages/social welfare/penions etc?

But you are still indifferent to the fact that the money is not their to pay these wages..even without the bank problem we were still up sh1ts creak

Gumbo · 04-02-2011 11:23AM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Great infrastructure my ass. They provide crappy services and infrastructure all the while making it very expensive and restrictive to do business here

remember that the next time you :

ring the garda to complain your car was robbed.
drive through a local authorithy road
need to attend a hospital
need your rubbish collected
thinking to yourself "i wonder where this goes when you flush your chain"
are drinking water from your tap
etc
etc
etc

fliball123 wrote: »

even without the bank problem we were still up sh1ts creak

without the bank problem, our internal budget problems could be sorted out through our annual budget and the current NRP.

gigino · 04-02-2011 12:20PM

kceire wrote: »

remember that the next time you :

ring the garda to complain your car was robbed.
drive through a local authorithy road
need to attend a hospital
need your rubbish collected
thinking to yourself "i wonder where this goes when you flush your chain"
are drinking water from your tap
etc
etc
etc

I was chatting to my brother about that, and I made the above point to him one, and he said that where he paid private contractors for his bin, his car tax + vehicle registration tax more than paid for the roads, he had a well for the water he uses like all his neighbours , he pays health insurance + through the nose to his doctor for his medical needs etc etc.
On prime time tv programme last night, it said it still cost 11,000 per house payable by the average house in the country to pay the public service.
He finished up by saying why the nurses, police, civil servants, road sweepers etc across the border from him in N. Ireland get by on half what the government pays them here ? Hard to answer that. I up to my brother. I muttered about the cost of living being more here but he soon pointed out all that was cheaper here. ( clothes, no property tax, petrol + fuel, shoes etc )....certainly not enough to justify wages being so much more here compared to n. ireland / uk.

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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