Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

fliball123 · 01-02-2011 05:05PM

k_mac wrote: »

The problem with looking at basic pay is that Gardaí pay a number of taxes which private sector don't. There are four seperate pension deductions alone. Also, I know very few jobs that do not pay extra for those who work nights and Sundays so i don't see how that is relevant.

I see you stopped at five years. The reason that pay goes up so much in that time is that that is when all the learning and training is done. You'll notice that over the next 25 years the pay only goes up anothr €8000 in total.

Do not get me started on pensions let alone the gaurds pension...they seem to be able to retire from 50 y.o onwards...

MagicSean · 01-02-2011 10:21PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Do not get me started on pensions let alone the gaurds pension...they seem to be able to retire from 50 y.o onwards...

Only if they join at 20 years old.

OMD wrote: »

Gardai do not pay taxes that the private sector do not. Pension payments are not a tax. Private sector workers have to pay far more in pension contributions than gardai. Gardai also get many allowances that I did not include here.

I quoted 5 years because that was the time frame I was responding to in the previous post. The other poster claimed a Garda after 5 years only earns 25k before tax. I was correcting them.

You will notice that over the next 25 years if the pay freeze continues for the entire 25 years then the Garda will still get an €8000 pay rise. Obviously the pay freeze will not continue for 25 years so the Garda pay will rise substantially more than €8000

Gardaí do not get many allowances. While there are many available, many are related to position and duties and are mutually exclusive. The only ones which are available to all Gardaí are the night and weekend allowances.

The pension levy and pension deductions can only be described as a tax. They are fixed and mandatory and are not refunded if the pension is not taken at the end of service. The amount of deductions paid increases with overtime and allowances yet this has no effect on the final pension payment.

The pay rates have gone down recently and will most likely go down over the next 5 years. In 25 years the pay will probably be no higher than it was at its peak a few years ago.

gigino · 02-02-2011 12:12AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Do not get me started on pensions let alone the gaurds pension...they seem to be able to retire from 50 y.o onwards...

If you had all the stress and pressure they put up with you would want to retire at 50 too. Late at night if they see a fight they have to break it up. Not an easy job.

tweedledee · 02-02-2011 12:30AM

This is exactly why FF got elected time and time again.People here are arguing over what the Gardai get paid compared to the private sector.There are no police in the private sector.These figures are peanuts compared to the bigger picture.The savings the government make are miniscule compared to what they refuse to take from their boardroom friends and relations.My point gets justified every single time.The government(FF) did whatever they liked because the Irish voting public would rather argue about what the EMERGENCY services get paid instead of confronting the real problems in the public service.50 BILLION to rogue bankers and not a beep from anybody,NOTHING,not a word.50 BILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!50 billion of TAXPAYERS money.220 MILLION paid out,in the last 3 years to the foreign office and NOT A BEEP,50 thousand spent on Ambassadors families education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Nothing said.Deputy Martin served less than FIVE years as a teacher and is on a full pension and will get a pension as a TD and some more as Leader etc etc.But Joe Public sucks up to the FF PR machine and blames the Gardai, Nurses,Teachers etc for our Third World countries problems???Its to easy for politicians when we have an ignorant public scrapping over peanuts.

gigino · 02-02-2011 12:52AM

tweedledee wrote: »

But Joe Public sucks up to the FF PR machine and blames the Gardai, Nurses,Teachers etc for our Third World countries problems???Its to easy for politicians when we have an ignorant public scrapping over peanuts.

You say Joe Public blames the Gardai, Nurses,Teachers etc for our Third World countries problems...its just that Joe Public is your and my sister, brother, boozing buddy, cousin or whoever and they would love to have our income, security and pensions. I guess they can see the score of the game. Thats calling a spade a spade. Its good old Irish begrudgery. They see us doing well for ourselves and they are jealous. They do not realise how hard public servants work sometimes. We do not have perks like xmas parties paid for by the employer. Jealousy and begrudgery are awful things. As an say we have an ignorant public scrapping over peanuts.

The_Thing · 02-02-2011 01:24AM

gigino wrote: »

You say Joe Public blames the Gardai, Nurses,Teachers etc for our Third World countries problems...its just that Joe Public is your and my sister, brother, boozing buddy, cousin or whoever and they would love to have our income, security and pensions. I guess they can see the score of the game. Thats calling a spade a spade. Its good old Irish begrudgery. They see us doing well for ourselves and they are jealous. They do not realise how hard public servants work sometimes. We do not have perks like xmas parties paid for by the employer. Jealousy and begrudgery are awful things. As an say we have an ignorant public scrapping over peanuts.

Has the arch-begrudger himself finally passed the entrance exam?

UNI4MER · 02-02-2011 07:18AM

Seems like the entire free market countries, including yours, are confronted with the same problem: paying more than they can collect to government employee union members who have been promised way more than it is ever possible to collect. At the same time the private sector, here in the US and especially in CA where I own a small business where the state is 24Billion in debt, is being restricted by increased taxes, environmental regulations, illegal alien expenses, etc. and they want to raise my taxes as a solution without confronting the reason for the deficit caused by the over compensation of government employees.
Hopefully there will be a leader that has some balls to rally a change against these government employee unions before we all go bankrupt.

amacca · 02-02-2011 09:20AM

UNI4MER wrote: »

Hopefully there will be a leader that has some balls to rally a change against these government employee unions before we all go bankrupt.

You mean like their predecessors had the balls to lead a charge against a cartel of financial institutions packaging up bad mortgage debt, slicing it up into easily digestible mortgage backed securities and engaging in a game of musical chairs while paying themselves ever increasing bonuses based on the "profits" they were making from pimping their mortgages to "customers" some of whom were more than likely unable to tie their own shoelaces.

Hopefully that leader will also have the balls to put corrupt big business in its place too.

btw the music stopped.

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 10:28AM

gigino wrote: »

You say Joe Public blames the Gardai, Nurses,Teachers etc for our Third World countries problems...its just that Joe Public is your and my sister, brother, boozing buddy, cousin or whoever and they would love to have our income, security and pensions. I guess they can see the score of the game. Thats calling a spade a spade. Its good old Irish begrudgery. They see us doing well for ourselves and they are jealous. They do not realise how hard public servants work sometimes. We do not have perks like xmas parties paid for by the employer. Jealousy and begrudgery are awful things. As an say we have an ignorant public scrapping over peanuts.

Guys it not jealousy or begrudery its pure and simple maths ... If no one in the public sector cant see the writting on the wall Enda Kenny has said if you dont acheive the aggreed savings under CPA by Sept that they will over volentary redundancies if they dont get the numbers then pay will be cut...This from the mouth of the man who will be the next leader...

He has it spot on...P.S pay has spiralled out of control in the last number of years 19billion on 300k break it down and do the math guys...

So the P.S have had their chance to reform to take redundancy if you dont want to do either then you have no one to blame but yourselves for your cuts...Also your there was no gauda equivalent in the private sector...So who where they benchmarked against.???

They should all be benchmarked again using the same criteria as before and there will be a big saving on wages

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 10:33AM

gigino wrote: »

If you had all the stress and pressure they put up with you would want to retire at 50 too. Late at night if they see a fight they have to break it up. Not an easy job.

Will you ask my ar$e so a security gaurd in McDonalds on Oconnell street does not face the same stress...Its pure scandalous that gaurds and any other public sector employee is allowed to retire before the 67 y.o mark and get their pension which the public pay a large part of.

But the poor gaurds...I have seen gaurds who play on my on GAA footy team get out of the gaurda car and play the game and apparently he is on duty ... Getting paid for this...No accountabillity too many expensees and entitilement...and paid as much if not more than a police man in the states who have to deal with guns on a day to day basis ..When is the last time a gaurd got shot...

The_Thing · 02-02-2011 12:36PM

fliball123 wrote: »

P.S pay has spiralled out of control in the last number of years...

Yes, downward due to two pay cuts. This simple fact is probably lost on the leader of the blue-shirts.

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 12:49PM

The_Thing wrote: »

Yes, downward due to two pay cuts. This simple fact is probably lost on the leader of the blue-shirts.

Yeah slightly downward but no where near where it needs to be a fact lost on the majority in the P.S..

As I have stated I would love for the P.S to stay on their wage as it would mean the money was there. It would mean that Ireland were not in the ****ter..but the simple maths is that you cannot cut all other areas of spending ala

the scratch
public services
Pensions

and then leave the p.s wage bill which is around 2/5s of what we spend (19 billion out of 50 billion) untouched...

Why should this sacred cow not be touched??? answers on a post card and send them to Enda Kenny/the IMF/the EU/The majority of the global experts/The majority of the people not working in the p.s

As has been seen with the lack of support for Air Lingus staff striking about a change in roster. I doubt anyone will have any sympathy for the p.s when they get cut and if they strike or threat to strike i can not see the public supporting it. In fact I reckon they will be vilified

The P.S has had ample chance to reform to get redundancies and nothing is budging..Time to get the chainsaw I am affraid.

OMD · 02-02-2011 01:01PM

The_Thing wrote: »

Yes, downward due to two pay cuts. This simple fact is probably lost on the leader of the blue-shirts.

Very slight downward decrease in last 2 years of about 5% (10% if you include pension levy as a pay cut or is it a tax:rolleyes:).

This however followed a 55% increase between 2000 and 2008. This was just over double the rate of inflation. So overall in the last 10 years public sector pay has increased at about double the rate of inflation.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/public_sector_earnings.htm

Now we have a pay freeze. In the normal world that would mean pay would not go up for the next 3 years. However PS workers are still entitled to their pay increments. So with a recruitment embargo, and pay increments that means the average pay in the public sector will rise over the next 3 years.

The_Thing · 02-02-2011 01:13PM

I won't be striking myself this time around if pay is cut again.

gigino · 02-02-2011 03:40PM

The_Thing wrote: »

I won't be striking myself this time around if pay is cut again.

Neither will I. I'll be very disappointed from a personal point of view, but I do accept the public service has been overpaid for a good few years now, and the country cannot afford it.

The_Thing · 02-02-2011 04:08PM

Strike pay per day is less than my daily salary, therefore I intend to pass any picket there may be, sit in my office, do practically nothing each day for the duration of the strike, and get paid for it. I might even bring in my laptop to watch a movie or two.

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 04:10PM

gigino wrote: »

Neither will I. I'll be very disappointed from a personal point of view, but I do accept the public service has been overpaid for a good few years now, and the country cannot afford it.

As I say gigino I know its a bitter pill to swallow and you have my deepest sympathy as I do think a lot of p.s workers do a good job and its more a reflection on how the country is than anything else...by all means if we get away from the current mire I would expect to see the p.s wage been brought back up (maybe a fair bit slower than the last decade) at some point

almighty1 · 02-02-2011 05:23PM

PS have been hit. Im down over €100 a week out of my hand in the last 3 years.

I contribute €120 a week to my pension.

I work hard. I earn my money.

Im more qualified than the majority of individuals in the private sector.

So stop tainting everybody with the same brush and get over yourselves.

FG can make cuts, that clown Kenny will make Cowan look like Einstein.
Slash the public service wage bill? Then face hospital, education, public transport, social services etc etc strikes and lets see how things can really get messy.

The_Thing · 02-02-2011 05:45PM

if the blue-shirts go the after the wages in the semi-state company's I hope the ESB workers pull the plug on the entire country.

Imagine if funeral directors \ undertakers were public sector too - I'd laugh my arse off to see piles of bodies left to rot like middle-ages plague victims during a strike.

noodler · 02-02-2011 06:01PM

Strike, see how much support you get for your childish attitudes.

Basic fact of the matter is a majority of the PS have made promises to save money via efficiencies and if there is no progress made by the third quarter then issues within the PS will have to be looked at again (says the MOU).

Can I use my contributions to a private pension fund a pay cut like the PS do?

If so I am worse off then most PS workers depsite my qualifications etc etc.

A surgical strike on PS pay would obviously be preferential to a straight % cut across the board.

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 06:01PM

almighty1 wrote: »

PS have been hit. Im down over €100 a week out of my hand in the last 3 years.

I contribute €120 a week to my pension.

I work hard. I earn my money.

Im more qualified than the majority of individuals in the private sector.

So stop tainting everybody with the same brush and get over yourselves.

FG can make cuts, that clown Kenny will make Cowan look like Einstein.
Slash the public service wage bill? Then face hospital, education, public transport, social services etc etc strikes and lets see how things can really get messy.

Whos tainting anyone with any brush the money is not their to pay your wages..

The majority of the private sector have been cut in the last 3 years aswell I personally am down 132 odd a week. Aswell as the increase in taxes on top of this.

The problem is the last 3 years all 4 main sections of public spend

Public sector wages
Pensions
Dole
Public serivces

Out of these 4 all have come down over the last 3 years...and going forward the one which is the biggest (public sector wage) is being protected via the cpa as the others continue to tumble...Do you not see how unsustainable this is.

As I say I would like it to be different but the money is not there..

How is it fair to hit the 400k odd more that are on the dole ..They will be cut ..

How is it fair that people who are in neg equity who bought houses will now be hit with a property tax but they will be

How is it fair that people on OAP are hit but they will be.

How is it fair that people working to make ends meet get hit with more taxes as their wage continues to be cut...

Just some perspective for the p.s its not just you guys getting hit but you are on a different planet if you do not think these cuts are coming as they are. Be prepared guys

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 06:03PM

The_Thing wrote: »

if the blue-shirts go the after the wages in the semi-state company's I hope the ESB workers pull the plug on the entire country.

Imagine if funeral directors \ undertakers were public sector too - I'd laugh my arse off to see piles of bodies left to rot like middle-ages plague victims during a strike.

I would have a look at what happened with Aer Lingus...No stand down from the bosses over the roaster...and if ESB pull the plug they will do what lingus done get someone in from outside to run the grid or Air tricity see ye ESB

fliball123 · 02-02-2011 06:07PM

Just to put more perspective on this tax take in the month of Jan is up 2% having said that with the increases in tax from all working Income tax is down by 6% meaning the taxing the fcuk out of people is not working...hate to say I told you so. i have been banging on about tax up past the point of diminishing returns and this proves people who were working this time last year are fleeing the country. If this continues the only people left will be those in the p.s

gigino · 02-02-2011 06:36PM

almighty1 wrote: »

PS have been hit. Im down over €100 a week out of my hand in the last 3 years.

It remind me of a conversation I heard recently, where a strict auld teacher was chatting about how he was down 9,000 a year. Ye must have been on a great salary before that, to be able to be afford to be down 9,000, says the other person ! The teacher was feeling sorry for himself because he is finding it difficult to visit his holiday home abroad as much as he would like....but he is glad he did not invest in Ireland.

UNI4MER · 02-02-2011 07:06PM

amacca wrote: »

You mean like their predecessors had the balls to lead a charge against a cartel of financial institutions packaging up bad mortgage debt, slicing it up into easily digestible mortgage backed securities and engaging in a game of musical chairs while paying themselves ever increasing bonuses based on the "profits" they were making from pimping their mortgages to "customers" some of whom were more than likely unable to tie their own shoelaces.

Hopefully that leader will also have the balls to put corrupt big business in its place too.

btw the music stopped.

Your government like ours had a choice whether or not to bail out the banks (mistake). Still doesn't solve the unability to pay for public employee union welfare (pensions, etc.)

noodler · 02-02-2011 07:13PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Just to put more perspective on this tax take in the month of Jan is up 2% having said that with the increases in tax from all working Income tax is down by 6% meaning the taxing the fcuk out of people is not working...hate to say I told you so. i have been banging on about tax up past the point of diminishing returns and this proves people who were working this time last year are fleeing the country. If this continues the only people left will be those in the p.s

Strange inference to make based on one month's returns.

Anyway, with how lopsided our income tax base I don't think the Government had an option bu to expand it.

ardmacha · 02-02-2011 07:44PM

How is it fair to hit the 400k odd more that are on the dole ..They will be cut ..

Dole was increased more in the boom than PS wages were.

How is it fair that people who are in neg equity who bought houses will now be hit with a property tax but they will be

It is people buying overpriced houses that caused this mess.

How is it fair that people on OAP are hit but they will be.

The pension was increased more in the boom than PS wages were.

How is it fair that people working to make ends meet get hit with more taxes as their wage continues to be cut...

Because they are citizens of a democratic society and they have to pay their share.

dissed doc · 02-02-2011 07:48PM

fliball123 wrote: »

But the poor gaurds...I have seen gaurds who play on my on GAA footy team get out of the gaurda car and play the game and apparently he is on duty ... Getting paid for this...No accountabillity too many expensees and entitilement...and paid as much if not more than a police man in the states who have to deal with guns on a day to day basis ..When is the last time a gaurd got shot...

It is a reason why I left, that so many in Ireland aspire to the American way of existence - gated communities, private police and private healthcare, buying big TVs while complaining about lousy hospitals. I would think Ireland is better suited to a society based like Netherlands or Denmark - but average Mick McMoron thinks paying the people who police the streets in a depression should have their paycut. Why don't you see how that worked out in the US?

dissed doc · 02-02-2011 07:53PM

noodler wrote: »

Strike, see how much support you get for your childish attitudes.

Support? There is no social contract anymore. Support is irrelevant. What is relevant, is if the country shreds social services to a skeleton healthcare and education system, and if that is what you want, or not.

Hospitals in the cities have been unable to recruit medical staff since January in many areas. The consequences are less "immediate" and instantly-gratifying, but I expect the instant gratification culture that has gripped the country to not see the consequences of cutting policing, education and healthcare over the next decade.

FYI - most police officers in New York retire after 20 years, on 50% final salaries (including overtime). You need to pay people to arrest people in drug and gang-infested areas od cities, having syringes thrown at them, all the time while staying within and upholding the peace. It's a little different than having a kebab thrown at you by some drunk in Centra, and no-one expects you to be doing it for 20+ years.

02-02-2011 08:32PM

almighty1 wrote: »

FG can make cuts, that clown Kenny will make Cowan look like Einstein.
Slash the public service wage bill? Then face hospital, education, public transport, social services etc etc strikes and lets see how things can really get messy.

ha, doesnt matter who is in power billions need to be cut
tough choice what would you rather more wage cuts? More taxes ? (same effect really)
Or maybe we close some of the hundreds of quangoes?

Take your pick, the money isnt there - it was thrown at the banks and now we are all gonna pay.

But goddamn nobody can make Cowen look like Einstein!

WITHDRAW

Its official : public sector pay per hour is 49% higher than private sector

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