NAMA scam underway?

Iwannahurl · 27-01-2011 11:44AM #1

Posted this in Irish Economy but zilch response.

A former auctioneer/valuer, Sen. Mark Daly I think, is warning that the Irish taxpayer is being scammed again, this time via flaws in NAMA. On Today PK earlier today.

As far as I can gather, this is what is happening.

NAMA is selling assets through competitive tendering, which is not an open and transparent process.

In some cases properties are being sold well below their current market value. "People in the know" -- possibly including developers who were the former owners of these properties -- are organising groups of friends to buy up the assets at the knock-down NAMA price. The asset is then sold on at a realistic market price, and the syndicate divides the spoils.

Nice one, if true. And if it is true, it's a massive scandal.

smash · 27-01-2011 11:47AM

shock horror : SF TD makes up bull**** story....

FatherLen · 27-01-2011 11:48AM

nama nama
nama nama
nama nama
nama nama
BATMAN!

Wompa1 · 27-01-2011 11:52AM

FatherLen wrote: »

nama nama
nama nama
nama nama
nama nama
BATMAN!

I LOVE THE LEADER! I get to live in this paradise and all I have to do is pay about 35 euro to the government a day for the pleasure...not including the tax on stuff I buy and my other living expenses. That was meant to paraphrase Homer explaining it to Marge but I just went on a tangent

mathie · 27-01-2011 11:55AM

NAMA scama ding dong?

Wibbs · 27-01-2011 11:57AM

steve06 wrote: »

shock horror : SF TD makes up bull**** story....

Eh he's a Fianna Failer from what I can see?

ilovesleep · 27-01-2011 11:58AM

Ireland will be a country of tinkers in a few more years. Why should anyone co-operate with whats happening?

Sanjuro · 27-01-2011 12:00PM

steve06 wrote: »

shock horror : SF TD makes up bull**** story....

Shock horror: reactionary boards poster fails to check facts.

Guy:Incognito · 27-01-2011 12:02PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh he's a Fianna Failer from what I can see?

Well then automatically everyone here thinks hes lieing, so alls well.

bladespin · 27-01-2011 12:03PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Ireland will be a country of tinkers in a few more years. Why should anyone co-operate with whats happening?

It already is, the mess we've made of ourselves just goes to prove this.

ejmaztec · 27-01-2011 12:04PM

steve06 wrote: »

shock horror : SF TD makes up bull**** story....

How do you know it's made up?

Lumen · 27-01-2011 12:08PM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In some cases properties are being sold well below their current market value.

I think that is technically impossible.

drdeadlift · 27-01-2011 12:10PM

bladespin wrote: »

It already is, the mess we've made of ourselves just goes to prove this.

Is it really that bad

Pompey Magnus · 27-01-2011 12:14PM

steve06 wrote: »

shock horror : SF (WRONG!) TD (WRONG!) makes up bull**** story....(PROOF?)

Sorry but I'm going to have to fail you on that post.

Zebra3 · 27-01-2011 12:26PM

McWilliams wrote about it some time ago how €2Bn is being put aside for all the solicitors being kept on NAMA's payroll and how as the state now controls so many of the banks, there's no need for NAMA.

Unless you are trying to redistribute wealth from the poorer sections of society to the richer parts.

myflipflops · 27-01-2011 12:32PM

Whatever about the legitimacy of this specific story, I think it's nearly certain that some people will be making under handed profits from the whole Nama/property situation.

This type of thing been ingrained in so many people for so long, it seems unlikely to change 100% overnight.

bladespin · 27-01-2011 12:37PM

drdeadlift wrote: »

Is it really that bad

I think so at times, TBH the first time this country becomes prosperous in it's history it's raped by it's government and citizens (not all maybe but the majority), really doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the people of Ireland, it's easy to blame the government that was elected, the banks that people flocked to for loans and mortgages, the developers who supplied a huge public demand, the builders who charged royally to build the houses that the public demanded, the public that bought the houses despite being told the property market was inflated, the public who demanded ever higher wages so they could buy the houses that were overpriced etc etc. oh, wait, that's just about everybody

drdeadlift · 27-01-2011 12:39PM

bladespin wrote: »

I think so at times, TBH the first time this country becomes prosperous in it's history it's raped by it's government and citizens (not all maybe but the majority), really doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the people of Ireland, it's easy to blame the government that was elected, the banks that people flocked to for loand and mortgages, the developers who supplied a huge public demand, the builders who charged royally to build the houses that the public demanded, the public that bought the houses despite being told the property market was inflated, the public who demanded ever higher wages so they could buy the houses that were overpriced etc etc. oh, wait, that's just about everybody

I agree 100%

AnonoBoy · 27-01-2011 12:39PM

SCAMA?

drdeadlift · 27-01-2011 12:40PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

McWilliams wrote about it some time ago how €2Bn is being put aside for all the solicitors being kept on NAMA's payroll and how as the state now controls so many of the banks, there's no need for NAMA.

Unless you are trying to redistribute wealth from the poorer sections of society to the richer parts.

And what are we going to do about it,NOTHING AT ALL

ilovesleep · 27-01-2011 12:56PM

drdeadlift wrote: »

And what are we going to do about it,NOTHING AT ALL

I cant understand how people can lie down and roll around in such abuse.

Id say for many it will be black economy ireland. If the taxpayers want to be fools so be it. Guess what the taxpayers will get more enjoyment from - shopping their neighbours out instead of going after the real scumbags at the top.

Iwannahurl · 27-01-2011 12:58PM

In truth I was rushing and under pressure while the interview was being broadcast so I didn't catch the guy's name. I hope he is a reliable source.

As I understand it, the allegation was that NAMA and/or the banks are selling on some properties quickly to get some money in ASAP.

NAMA has just said that they have not sold any assets. The (nationalised) banks may also do so, and NAMA says that the process is EU approved.

However, the central point remains. If the assets are being sold cheaply because of the haircut and a desire to offload as quickly as possible, then there is an opportunity for smart operators to make a quick buck.

The interviewees claim was that "people in the know", including developers whose properties were taken on by NAMA, were organising groups of friends and acquaintances to submit tenders on their behalf, with the aim of dividing the spoils when the assets were subsequently sold on at a profit.

Hopefully there will be more clarity on this. If it's true, there will be ructions.

Zebra3 · 27-01-2011 12:58PM

drdeadlift wrote: »

And what are we going to do about it,NOTHING AT ALL

It's simple.

Don't vote for candidates who support NAMA and the bailing out of failed private businesses by the taxpayer.

Iwannahurl · 27-01-2011 01:04PM

It's Mark Daly alright.

Story being picked up elsewhere, but there is some scepticism about its accuracy.

Will be interesting to see how this one unfolds.

biko · 27-01-2011 01:15PM

All the ingredients of a good conspiracy

FreudianSlippers · 27-01-2011 01:17PM

There is some good NAMA news though. They are taking some more smaller and profitable loans and are exposing the banks and shareholders to about 5% more risk than previously.

The Government has published amendments to the National Asset Management Agency legislation this evening.
The measures will allow the agency purchase all AIB and Bank of Ireland land and development loans. The previous threshold was all loans in excess of €20m.
Up to 20,000 of these smaller loans will move across to NAMA under this new arrangement.
The Government said that to ensure the speedy transfer of so many loans, the NAMA (Amendment) Bill 2011 will allow the agency to buy them on an expedited basis under the new provisions.
The changes were agreed as part of the EU/IMF bailout and are due to be implemented in the first quarter of 2011 under the programme.
The discounts to be applied by NAMA will be based on previous transfers to date depending on where they are and the extent to which the development of that land has been completed.
This means that different discounts may apply depending on whether the land is located in Ireland, Northern Ireland or the UK.
The bill also says that banks will be obliged to give NAMA accurate details of the sub €20m land and development loans they hold.
If this is breached a maximum penalty of up to 10 years in jail could be imposed.
There will also be a change to the mix of NAMA bonds and more risky subordinated bonds being paid to the banks for the loans up to €20m in value.
Until now 95% of the bonds have been NAMA bonds and the balance more risky subordinated bonds, which could only be cashed in if the new agency ultimately makes a profit.
Under the amendment only 90.1% would be NAMA bonds.
This would mean the two banks would share a higher level of losses if NAMA ultimately losses money.

Mister men · 27-01-2011 01:19PM

steve06 wrote: »

shock horror : SF TD makes up bull**** story....

Lol. Priceless. Don't let being wrong get in the way of a good story.:pac:

AnonoBoy · 27-01-2011 01:21PM

Mister men wrote: »

Lol. Priceless. Don't let being wrong get in the way of a good story.:pac:

Being wrong is what made this country great.

drdeadlift · 27-01-2011 01:34PM

You do something wrong you should suffer the consequences,this f!cking nama thing seems only to be preventing any loss for the well to do

Blazer · 27-01-2011 01:37PM

seriously...can anyone say they're surprised if this turned out to be true?

whitesands · 27-01-2011 01:40PM

NAMA has been a scam from the start...

They have 100's of 1000's of empty apts & houses, where are these on the open market???? If anyone wants to disprove this conspiracy theory show me just 1 house or apt that nama is selling!

What they can't sell to private connected investors they will try to sell to individuals at inflated prices.
Example: Anglo Irish now doing residential mortgages to get value
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo-irish-now-doing-residential-mortgages-to-get-value-2509117.html

Basically, sell a house to 1 idiot at current inflated prices, they reckon (know) it's easier for loads of people to pay them small amounts than a developer owing them huge amounts. As usual the little guy get's screwed

This is only the tip of the iceberg...

NAMA scam underway?

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