What would SF/Labour government be like..?

eddison · 25-01-2011 01:16AM #1

I'm not a fan of SF as their economic policies need allot of work. I simply do not trust FG, I think they will get into the old way of doing business- promises etc. I'm not mad about Labour either.

But I was looking at frontline tonight. Labour have better economic policies, and SF are more sincere. Would a SF balance out labour, and Labour balance out SF?
That way we might get the best of both worlds ?

maccored · 25-01-2011 01:20AM

i'd surmise labour are a bit right wing for SF.

eddison · 25-01-2011 01:25AM

Yeah probably.. but thats the thing, Labour will balance out SF to be a bit less lefty !
I'd love to see it simply to give the bankers, developers, FF, FG and all those people a kick up the arse... Situation cannot get any worse than it is already.

dynamick · 25-01-2011 01:31AM

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

eddison · 25-01-2011 01:38AM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

I Don't really think that is fair? FG were connected to the blue shirts, FF had their kill 'em and ate 'em days back in the 20's. All major parties have blood, and revolution on their hands. The IRA voluntarily disposed their weapons. SF helped to bring peace to the North.
They deserve a chance huh?

The Volt · 25-01-2011 01:43AM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

National Socialism was a far-right thing so by your logic that'd be much more likely in an FG/Ind government.

eddison · 25-01-2011 01:45AM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Ah sure twould be great, we'd all have balaclavas with hammer&sickles on them.

LOL!! at least we would have a toasty warm face in the snow.

Pat D. Almighty · 25-01-2011 02:13AM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

What a load of sh!te. An armed youth wing? Ógra Shinn Féin are not an armed organisation. They barely have any members, let alone an armed force.

Leiva · 25-01-2011 08:13AM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

I have heard it all now .:rolleyes:

Dirk Gently · 25-01-2011 08:39AM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! .

The question was about a SF / Lab government, not a blueshirt one.

Balmed Out · 25-01-2011 10:24AM

The National Socialists left industry in private hands but dictated production, production levels, wage levels, owner profit levels etc. These would be far more left wing then right wing policies.

jmayo · 25-01-2011 10:36AM

eddison wrote: »

I Don't really think that is fair? FG were connected to the blue shirts, FF had their kill 'em and ate 'em days back in the 20's. All major parties have blood, and revolution on their hands. The IRA voluntarily disposed their weapons. SF helped to bring peace to the North.
They deserve a chance huh?

Difference is the other parties that grew out of SF and the armed war of independence gave up arms a long time ago to create and run a state by democratic means.
Yes that state might only be the 26 counties, but at least they ran it peacefully.
Why was it SF's policy to not recognise the legitimacy of this state but the legitimacy of their Army council, an uneletected war council, as the rightful leaders of this country ?

As regard SF bringing peace to Northern Ireland, they brought a lot of death before that. :rolleyes:

FG (their predessors) set up a rule of law and a non paramilitary police force and the other major parties all signed up to it.
SF on the other hand failed to recognise this state until the 1980s, and by the looks of it some of them still do not recognise our rule of law and the legitimacy of our state's police force.

That is the difference and no ammount of harping back to Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

As regards SF and Labour government it is pie in the sky and we would be heading towards North Korean economy if SF policies were followed.
Then again ceertain Republicans (not SF or PIRA but IRA) had a fondness for North Korean dollars. :rolleyes:

eddison · 25-01-2011 12:44PM

Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

I don't think that is true..relevant quote from a prominent SF member please.

jmayo · 25-01-2011 04:58PM

eddison wrote: »

I don't think that is true..relevant quote from a prominent SF member please.

Obviously you have not seen nor take an heed of the interviews given by members of the ferris family including the one where the darling of sf, toireasa ferris, refused to condemn the killing but rather stated she regretted it .

One famous interview wason the Late Late Show on February 11th 2006 where she came out with this famous line declaring she did not have the authority to condemn the killing.

Note following the TV appearance in Fenruary 2006 Kerry Co Council passed motions put down by both Fine Gael and fianna fáil condemning the killing of Det Garda McCabe.

However Fine Gael tabled a motion of no confidence in Ms ferris after she voted against these motions.

She voted against a motion to condemn the killing so in affect she doesn't have much of a problem with the cold blooded premeated killing of a member of our police force.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0220/sinnfein.html

In september 2009 martin ferris collected the killers from Castlrea prison.
I can't remember the last time an elected TD went to prison to collect killers.
Worse was to come as his colleagues defended this action.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-backs-ferris-role-in-mccabe-killers-release-1879121.html

So please lets not now resort to the usual SF tripe where every attrocity committed by British/English or indeed Irish forces during Irish history is dragged out in their defence and yet this killing is labelled as ancient history. :rolleyes:

eddison · 25-01-2011 05:50PM

Every single party in this country have their rogues, and black sheep. The catholic church has its black sheep too. The Gardai have their black sheep. As so too have FF etc
All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage- but very few of party members starved themselves to death for what they believed in. They may have been wrong, they may have been right. The fact remains they died for their beliefs, not to line a developers pocket, or resign to get a big pension.
I remember the same anger you have, when Gerry Adams sat, on his own in front of the late late audience.
They torn him apart- murder death etc etc. He sat and quietly listened to everyone. When they had finished Gerry said yes- these things happened, you are right. But lets stop this from ever happening again.
Sinn Fein were true to their word, and got the most feared military force in the world- to give up their guns !!!!
Even English people I have spoke to say they were undefeated. Like then, or hate them you have to respect them.

Hannibal · 25-01-2011 06:02PM

jmayo wrote: »

Obviously you have not seen nor take an heed of the interviews given by members of the ferris family including the one where the darling of sf, toireasa ferris, refused to condemn the killing but rather stated she regretted it .

One famous interview wason the Late Late Show on February 11th 2006 where she came out with this famous line declaring she did not have the authority to condemn the killing.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0220/sinnfein.html

Why would Ms Ferris have the authority to condemn it? she was 16 when it happened. Its a bit silly on the interviewers part

LeixlipRed · 25-01-2011 06:08PM

Well anyone has the authority to personally condemn whatever they want you see. It's quite simple.

jmayo · 25-01-2011 06:38PM

eddison wrote: »

Every single party in this country have their rogues, and black sheep. The catholic church has its black sheep too. The Gardai have their black sheep. As so too have FF etc

Are you trying to intimate that becuase there are dodgy Gardaí that Garda Gerry McCabe deserved to be shot to death with one of most fearsome assualt rifles whilst on duty protecting services of this state ?

As bad as ff are, and I do detest them, has any of it's current elected members being found guilty of attempted murder, illegal importation of arms with a view to over throwing the legitimate government of this state, the support of Garda killers ?

eddison wrote: »

All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage- but very few of party members starved themselves to death for what they believed in.
They may have been wrong, they may have been right. The fact remains they died for their beliefs, not to line a developers pocket, or resign to get a big pension.

There is a middle ground you know. :rolleyes:
You don't have to do one or the other.

eddison wrote: »

I remember the same anger you have, when Gerry Adams sat, on his own in front of the late late audience.
They torn him apart- murder death etc etc.

Why shouldn't they, should they have let him sit there and not answer why he represented an organisation that had no problem with blowing people up, often in our names ?

eddison wrote: »

He sat and quietly listened to everyone. When they had finished Gerry said yes- these things happened, you are right. But lets stop this from ever happening again.

Would that be before Garda Mccabe was murdered, before John Macartney was gutted on a sunday afternoon on a sidewalk in Belfast by SF supporters ?

eddison wrote: »

Sinn Fein were true to their word, and got the most feared military force in the world- to give up their guns !!!!

Most feared military force in the world ? :rolleyes:

For some reason I think you are either still in school or have recently left school becuase your view of Irish history appears to be the distorted one fed by shinners to the gullible young who don't remember what they really did, all in the name of Irish nationalism. :mad:

eddison wrote: »

Even English people I have spoke to say they were undefeated. Like then, or hate them you have to respect them.

I don't have to respect them.
I might have respected what they initally stood for back after Bloody Sunday, but not what they were to become where murdering innocent kids and women was seen as somehow glorious and a way to further their vision for a united Ireland.

BTW speak to a few different British people and you will find they were a lot nearer to defeat than is ever admitted.
Ever chat with anyone who spent their days living in their own cr** watching the most feared military force in the world and you get a different perspective.
But both sides realised the futility and wanted an end, rather than drag on the dirty little war any longer.

Dotsey wrote: »

Why would Ms Ferris have the authority to condemn it? she was 16 when it happened. Its a bit silly on the interviewers part

You don't need authority to condemn something that is wrong. :rolleyes:
It is a personal stance.
No it is bit silly on your part to try and peddle total sh**e.
It doesn't matter that I wasn't born when the holocaust occurred, but I can still condemn it as being very wrong.

Do you need permission before you can condemn illegal and immoral actions ?

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Well anyone has the authority to personally condemn whatever they want you see. It's quite simple.

Exactly.

Chucky the tree · 25-01-2011 07:01PM

One party with no economic polices, the other ones are crazy and not realistic. Being in the worst economic situation ever for this country, this partnership would be a nightmare.

murphaph · 25-01-2011 07:07PM

eddison wrote: »

All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage

True, but SF's is still smoking.

eddison · 25-01-2011 07:10PM

Hi Jmayo,

Where did you get all your information? Several times on this forum RTE has come in for criticism for biased reporting. Now you are not going to tell me that all the above come from RTE, or any of the national newspapers. You are not going to tell me that you read it.
You must have some experience to state what you believe, and this must be real experience. What I mean is, if one is mature, then one listens to both sides. People who base their opinions on one side only, are ignorant of the other side of the debate, so:

Have you lived in the North during the troubles?
Have you been to Sinn Fein meetings, and put your points to them?
Have you been to their constituency offices, and given them an opportunity answer all the above?

Just please do not tell me you seen it on the box, so it must be true.

dynamick · 25-01-2011 10:56PM

How's Sinn Féin doing at trying to remember where they buried Jean McConville? And how come Gerry Adams hasn't gotten around to suing every major news organisation including newspapers and TV that carried the story that Gerry had ordered her killing?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7078981.ece

One of Jean's daughters is to stand against Gerry in the election.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/mcconville-girl-to-battle-adams-2508381.html

Remember when Esther Uzell, the sister of one of Sinn Féin's victims stood against Dathi Doolan in Dublin South East in 2009? Daithi lost his safe seat.

Good luck Gerry and good luck to all Sinn Féin candidates who are very proud of not killing people any more. We all think you're wonderful.

outandabout · 26-01-2011 10:52AM

It can't happen for a number of reasons among them the deep rooted antipathy between the old Provisional Sinn Fein and Official Sinn Fein.

If memory serves me right, Official Sinn Fein split from Provisional's because of arguments over armed struggle and also a perception that Sinn Fein did not have a socialist agenda.

Official Sinn Fein then became Sinn Fein The Workers Party and its members included Eamonn Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte. Another split followed with Gilmore, Rabbitte and others forming Democratic Left which eventually merged with the Labout Party.

I'd argue that for Rabbitte, Gilmore and other former members of SFWP to form a Government with SF would be a bridge too far and it won't happen for at least another 10 years.

jmayo · 26-01-2011 11:06AM

eddison wrote: »

Hi Jmayo,

Where did you get all your information? Several times on this forum RTE has come in for criticism for biased reporting. Now you are not going to tell me that all the above come from RTE, or any of the national newspapers. You are not going to tell me that you read it.
You must have some experience to state what you believe, and this must be real experience. What I mean is, if one is mature, then one listens to both sides. People who base their opinions on one side only, are ignorant of the other side of the debate, so:

Have you lived in the North during the troubles?
Have you been to Sinn Fein meetings, and put your points to them?
Have you been to their constituency offices, and given them an opportunity answer all the above?

Just please do not tell me you seen it on the box, so it must be true.

What a crock of sh**.
Just ignore facts and claim the media reporting was somehow biased.
There are indisputable facts about SF being the political wing of PIRA and there are indisputable facts that PIRA members killed innocent men, women and children.
There are indisputable facts that SF members have refused to condemn massacres down through the years or are you going to claim that all media organisations were somehow distorting the facts ?
Perhaps Enniskillen, Warrington were media concotions and nobody died after all.
Perhaps Jean McConville died of natural causes and SF's buddies in PIRA thought she wanted to be buried by the sea ?

After all another famous Shinner mitchel mclaughlin once claimed on national TV that the disappearance of widow, a mother of 10 (10 kids), was not a crime but wrong.

Please give the other side to the story why the kids in this picture had to grow up without their mom ?

Please tell me what both sides are to Jean McConville's disappearance, murder and dumping of her body ?

Please tell us the other side to the murder of kids like these two ?

5848889_large.jpg?2678401

Please tell me what boths sides of the murder of 3 year-old Johnathan Ball and 12 year old Tim Parry in Warrington ?

Perhaps Robert Macartney slipped, but who had the wherewithal to organise a riot so that police could not investigate the scene ?
Who organised the clean up of the crime scene during the riot and confiscation of video tapes ?

They are indisputable facts about ms ferris and her refusal to condemn a Garda killing.
If you want we can drag up the interview on the Late Late Show, I believe it is on youtube.
Are you going to claim youtube are anti SF and biased ?

ms ferris had ample opportunity, but refused.
She refused to back a vote in Kerry Co Council condemning the killing.

They had ample opportunity to answer the above without me going personally to any party office and asking them.

ei.sdraob · 26-01-2011 12:05PM

why did this go thru' my head when I read the thread title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

cancercowboy · 26-01-2011 12:14PM

It doesn't really pay to imagine. Labour have unequivocally stated that under no conditions would they form a government with Sinn Féin. This morning on newstalk Eamon Gilmore, labour party leader, stated that again and gave Sinn Féin's ridiculous and incoherent economic polices as the latest in a long list of reasons.

Sinn Féin will get the support of Éire when they 1.) get a coherent economic policy and 2.) don't have an IRA Army Council member as their party leader. Those are two deal breakers for me, and for many other people here in our republic.
The worst thing is Gerry Adams, Sinn Fein party leader, didn't seem to know what the economic party policy was. He claimed he would be able to negotiate with the bond markets, a faceless soulless entity. I am curious where this negotiation would have taken place... was he just going to walk into the New York Stock Exchange and start yelling "Ulster Says No"?
When you take a look at the Sinn Féin economic policy the numbers don't add up. It doesn't make any sense.

dolphin city · 26-01-2011 12:51PM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

can I refer you to confused dot com

murf313 · 26-01-2011 12:53PM

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

sure didnt it work for germany in the 1930's....???

oh wait.........

dolphin city · 26-01-2011 12:59PM

jmayo wrote: »

Difference is the other parties that grew out of SF and the armed war of independence gave up arms a long time ago to create and run a state by democratic means.
Yes that state might only be the 26 counties, but at least they ran it peacefully.
Why was it SF's policy to not recognise the legitimacy of this state but the legitimacy of their Army council, an uneletected war council, as the rightful leaders of this country ?

As regard SF bringing peace to Northern Ireland, they brought a lot of death before that. :rolleyes:

FG (their predessors) set up a rule of law and a non paramilitary police force and the other major parties all signed up to it.
SF on the other hand failed to recognise this state until the 1980s, and by the looks of it some of them still do not recognise our rule of law and the legitimacy of our state's police force.

That is the difference and no ammount of harping back to Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

As regards SF and Labour government it is pie in the sky and we would be heading towards North Korean economy if SF policies were followed.
Then again ceertain Republicans (not SF or PIRA but IRA) had a fondness for North Korean dollars. :rolleyes:

another candidate for confused dot com

eddison · 26-01-2011 01:52PM

Hi Jmayo,

You made a guess at my age, that I must be in school! -fail.
Let me make a guess at your age group. You are over 60? maybe a retired pilot? You probably vote FG. Going by your post, have an extreme hatred of SF all your life?
If SF were to suddenly devote all their time to good works, you would still have a hatred of SF. I believe you think the only good SF member is a dead SF member, am I right?

I would guess that you share this extreme hatred with anyone, and everyone, at every opportunity, for the past 40 years, Am I right? You will never change your opinions, because you have had them for so long now, they are part of you.

No it is bit silly on your part to try and peddle total sh**e

Jmayo, i have a right to my opinions, and you should not try to stamp on them, because I disagree with you, that is what the the national socialist democratic party did. Everyone here has a right to their views without being abused for them. Please do not TRY abuse me because I have a different opinion than you.

indisputable facts

You keep saying this 'indisputable facts' 'indisputable facts' but what are the indisputable fatcs Jmayo. Lets replace 'indisputable facts' with 'NO EVIDENCE' there has never been any evidence that SF has killed anyone. Help everyone!!! Sinn Fein are going to get into government, and shoot everyone !!!
In fact, SF have stopped killing by the IRA.
SF brought peace to the north.

Now I' m not a fan of their economic policies, but I feel they have more integrity than ANY of the other parties. This is why they would be good as a FF/SF coalition, or SF/L coalition. IOW Sinn Fein would keep FF or Labour- honest. Don't think there is much chance of a SF/FG amalgamation lol!
All your points above relate to military organisations, and not SF. You have no inside information, and are free to abuse SF all you like, as much as you like, which you do, quite often. You like to group SF with IRA so you can aim more hatred at them. Thing is that Adams and SF brought peace to the north. IRA was not the only military force there. SF get votes. Ordinary people who they have helped, vote for them.

Two points- You have not answered my point that you have no experience, and therefore are talking about something which you have no experience of, and no clue. You ARE a victim of sectarian reporting, although you are not aware of this.
If you have no long term hatred of SF, then let me ask you a question..
What good things have they done?

d'Oracle · 26-01-2011 02:13PM

eddison wrote: »

In fact, SF have stopped killing by the IRA.
SF brought peace to the north.

How did they do that then?
Why didn't they stop it earlier?

Sinn Fein are the political arm of the PIRA.
They are intrinsically linked.

When the IRA kill Sinn Fein kill.

What would SF/Labour government be like..?

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