What would SF/Labour government be like..?

eddison

I'm not a fan of SF as their economic policies need allot of work. I simply do not trust FG, I think they will get into the old way of doing business- promises etc. I'm not mad about Labour either.

But I was looking at frontline tonight. Labour have better economic policies, and SF are more sincere. Would a SF balance out labour, and Labour balance out SF?
That way we might get the best of both worlds ?

maccored

i'd surmise labour are a bit right wing for SF.

eddison

Yeah probably.. but thats the thing, Labour will balance out SF to be a bit less lefty !
I'd love to see it simply to give the bankers, developers, FF, FG and all those people a kick up the arse... Situation cannot get any worse than it is already.

dynamick

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

eddison

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

I Don't really think that is fair? FG were connected to the blue shirts, FF had their kill 'em and ate 'em days back in the 20's. All major parties have blood, and revolution on their hands. The IRA voluntarily disposed their weapons. SF helped to bring peace to the North.
They deserve a chance huh?

The Volt

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

National Socialism was a far-right thing so by your logic that'd be much more likely in an FG/Ind government.

eddison

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Ah sure twould be great, we'd all have balaclavas with hammer&sickles on them.

LOL!! at least we would have a toasty warm face in the snow.

Pat D. Almighty

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

What a load of sh!te. An armed youth wing? Ógra Shinn Féin are not an armed organisation. They barely have any members, let alone an armed force.

Leiva

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

I have heard it all now .:rolleyes:

Dirk Gently

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! .

The question was about a SF / Lab government, not a blueshirt one.

Balmed Out

The National Socialists left industry in private hands but dictated production, production levels, wage levels, owner profit levels etc. These would be far more left wing then right wing policies.

jmayo

eddison wrote: »

I Don't really think that is fair? FG were connected to the blue shirts, FF had their kill 'em and ate 'em days back in the 20's. All major parties have blood, and revolution on their hands. The IRA voluntarily disposed their weapons. SF helped to bring peace to the North.
They deserve a chance huh?

Difference is the other parties that grew out of SF and the armed war of independence gave up arms a long time ago to create and run a state by democratic means.
Yes that state might only be the 26 counties, but at least they ran it peacefully.
Why was it SF's policy to not recognise the legitimacy of this state but the legitimacy of their Army council, an uneletected war council, as the rightful leaders of this country ?

As regard SF bringing peace to Northern Ireland, they brought a lot of death before that. :rolleyes:

FG (their predessors) set up a rule of law and a non paramilitary police force and the other major parties all signed up to it.
SF on the other hand failed to recognise this state until the 1980s, and by the looks of it some of them still do not recognise our rule of law and the legitimacy of our state's police force.

That is the difference and no ammount of harping back to Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

As regards SF and Labour government it is pie in the sky and we would be heading towards North Korean economy if SF policies were followed.
Then again ceertain Republicans (not SF or PIRA but IRA) had a fondness for North Korean dollars. :rolleyes:

eddison

Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

I don't think that is true..relevant quote from a prominent SF member please.

jmayo

eddison wrote: »

I don't think that is true..relevant quote from a prominent SF member please.

Obviously you have not seen nor take an heed of the interviews given by members of the ferris family including the one where the darling of sf, toireasa ferris, refused to condemn the killing but rather stated she regretted it .

One famous interview wason the Late Late Show on February 11th 2006 where she came out with this famous line declaring she did not have the authority to condemn the killing.

Note following the TV appearance in Fenruary 2006 Kerry Co Council passed motions put down by both Fine Gael and fianna fáil condemning the killing of Det Garda McCabe.

However Fine Gael tabled a motion of no confidence in Ms ferris after she voted against these motions.

She voted against a motion to condemn the killing so in affect she doesn't have much of a problem with the cold blooded premeated killing of a member of our police force.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0220/sinnfein.html

In september 2009 martin ferris collected the killers from Castlrea prison.
I can't remember the last time an elected TD went to prison to collect killers.
Worse was to come as his colleagues defended this action.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-backs-ferris-role-in-mccabe-killers-release-1879121.html

So please lets not now resort to the usual SF tripe where every attrocity committed by British/English or indeed Irish forces during Irish history is dragged out in their defence and yet this killing is labelled as ancient history. :rolleyes:

eddison

Every single party in this country have their rogues, and black sheep. The catholic church has its black sheep too. The Gardai have their black sheep. As so too have FF etc
All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage- but very few of party members starved themselves to death for what they believed in. They may have been wrong, they may have been right. The fact remains they died for their beliefs, not to line a developers pocket, or resign to get a big pension.
I remember the same anger you have, when Gerry Adams sat, on his own in front of the late late audience.
They torn him apart- murder death etc etc. He sat and quietly listened to everyone. When they had finished Gerry said yes- these things happened, you are right. But lets stop this from ever happening again.
Sinn Fein were true to their word, and got the most feared military force in the world- to give up their guns !!!!
Even English people I have spoke to say they were undefeated. Like then, or hate them you have to respect them.

Hannibal

jmayo wrote: »

Obviously you have not seen nor take an heed of the interviews given by members of the ferris family including the one where the darling of sf, toireasa ferris, refused to condemn the killing but rather stated she regretted it .

One famous interview wason the Late Late Show on February 11th 2006 where she came out with this famous line declaring she did not have the authority to condemn the killing.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0220/sinnfein.html

Why would Ms Ferris have the authority to condemn it? she was 16 when it happened. Its a bit silly on the interviewers part

LeixlipRed

Well anyone has the authority to personally condemn whatever they want you see. It's quite simple.

jmayo

eddison wrote: »

Every single party in this country have their rogues, and black sheep. The catholic church has its black sheep too. The Gardai have their black sheep. As so too have FF etc

Are you trying to intimate that becuase there are dodgy Gardaí that Garda Gerry McCabe deserved to be shot to death with one of most fearsome assualt rifles whilst on duty protecting services of this state ?

As bad as ff are, and I do detest them, has any of it's current elected members being found guilty of attempted murder, illegal importation of arms with a view to over throwing the legitimate government of this state, the support of Garda killers ?

eddison wrote: »

All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage- but very few of party members starved themselves to death for what they believed in.
They may have been wrong, they may have been right. The fact remains they died for their beliefs, not to line a developers pocket, or resign to get a big pension.

There is a middle ground you know. :rolleyes:
You don't have to do one or the other.

eddison wrote: »

I remember the same anger you have, when Gerry Adams sat, on his own in front of the late late audience.
They torn him apart- murder death etc etc.

Why shouldn't they, should they have let him sit there and not answer why he represented an organisation that had no problem with blowing people up, often in our names ?

eddison wrote: »

He sat and quietly listened to everyone. When they had finished Gerry said yes- these things happened, you are right. But lets stop this from ever happening again.

Would that be before Garda Mccabe was murdered, before John Macartney was gutted on a sunday afternoon on a sidewalk in Belfast by SF supporters ?

eddison wrote: »

Sinn Fein were true to their word, and got the most feared military force in the world- to give up their guns !!!!

Most feared military force in the world ? :rolleyes:

For some reason I think you are either still in school or have recently left school becuase your view of Irish history appears to be the distorted one fed by shinners to the gullible young who don't remember what they really did, all in the name of Irish nationalism. :mad:

eddison wrote: »

Even English people I have spoke to say they were undefeated. Like then, or hate them you have to respect them.

I don't have to respect them.
I might have respected what they initally stood for back after Bloody Sunday, but not what they were to become where murdering innocent kids and women was seen as somehow glorious and a way to further their vision for a united Ireland.

BTW speak to a few different British people and you will find they were a lot nearer to defeat than is ever admitted.
Ever chat with anyone who spent their days living in their own cr** watching the most feared military force in the world and you get a different perspective.
But both sides realised the futility and wanted an end, rather than drag on the dirty little war any longer.

Dotsey wrote: »

Why would Ms Ferris have the authority to condemn it? she was 16 when it happened. Its a bit silly on the interviewers part

You don't need authority to condemn something that is wrong. :rolleyes:
It is a personal stance.
No it is bit silly on your part to try and peddle total sh**e.
It doesn't matter that I wasn't born when the holocaust occurred, but I can still condemn it as being very wrong.

Do you need permission before you can condemn illegal and immoral actions ?

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Well anyone has the authority to personally condemn whatever they want you see. It's quite simple.

Exactly.

Chucky the tree

One party with no economic polices, the other ones are crazy and not realistic. Being in the worst economic situation ever for this country, this partnership would be a nightmare.

murphaph

eddison wrote: »

All the main parties had a gun in their hand at one stage

True, but SF's is still smoking.

eddison

Hi Jmayo,


Where did you get all your information? Several times on this forum RTE has come in for criticism for biased reporting. Now you are not going to tell me that all the above come from RTE, or any of the national newspapers. You are not going to tell me that you read it.
You must have some experience to state what you believe, and this must be real experience. What I mean is, if one is mature, then one listens to both sides. People who base their opinions on one side only, are ignorant of the other side of the debate, so:

Have you lived in the North during the troubles?
Have you been to Sinn Fein meetings, and put your points to them?
Have you been to their constituency offices, and given them an opportunity answer all the above?

Just please do not tell me you seen it on the box, so it must be true.

dynamick

How's Sinn Féin doing at trying to remember where they buried Jean McConville? And how come Gerry Adams hasn't gotten around to suing every major news organisation including newspapers and TV that carried the story that Gerry had ordered her killing?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7078981.ece

One of Jean's daughters is to stand against Gerry in the election.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/mcconville-girl-to-battle-adams-2508381.html

Remember when Esther Uzell, the sister of one of Sinn Féin's victims stood against Dathi Doolan in Dublin South East in 2009? Daithi lost his safe seat.

Good luck Gerry and good luck to all Sinn Féin candidates who are very proud of not killing people any more. We all think you're wonderful.

outandabout

It can't happen for a number of reasons among them the deep rooted antipathy between the old Provisional Sinn Fein and Official Sinn Fein.

If memory serves me right, Official Sinn Fein split from Provisional's because of arguments over armed struggle and also a perception that Sinn Fein did not have a socialist agenda.

Official Sinn Fein then became Sinn Fein The Workers Party and its members included Eamonn Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte. Another split followed with Gilmore, Rabbitte and others forming Democratic Left which eventually merged with the Labout Party.

I'd argue that for Rabbitte, Gilmore and other former members of SFWP to form a Government with SF would be a bridge too far and it won't happen for at least another 10 years.

jmayo

eddison wrote: »

Hi Jmayo,

Where did you get all your information? Several times on this forum RTE has come in for criticism for biased reporting. Now you are not going to tell me that all the above come from RTE, or any of the national newspapers. You are not going to tell me that you read it.
You must have some experience to state what you believe, and this must be real experience. What I mean is, if one is mature, then one listens to both sides. People who base their opinions on one side only, are ignorant of the other side of the debate, so:

Have you lived in the North during the troubles?
Have you been to Sinn Fein meetings, and put your points to them?
Have you been to their constituency offices, and given them an opportunity answer all the above?

Just please do not tell me you seen it on the box, so it must be true.

What a crock of sh**.
Just ignore facts and claim the media reporting was somehow biased.
There are indisputable facts about SF being the political wing of PIRA and there are indisputable facts that PIRA members killed innocent men, women and children.
There are indisputable facts that SF members have refused to condemn massacres down through the years or are you going to claim that all media organisations were somehow distorting the facts ?
Perhaps Enniskillen, Warrington were media concotions and nobody died after all.
Perhaps Jean McConville died of natural causes and SF's buddies in PIRA thought she wanted to be buried by the sea ?

After all another famous Shinner mitchel mclaughlin once claimed on national TV that the disappearance of widow, a mother of 10 (10 kids), was not a crime but wrong.



Please give the other side to the story why the kids in this picture had to grow up without their mom ?

Please tell me what both sides are to Jean McConville's disappearance, murder and dumping of her body ?


Please tell us the other side to the murder of kids like these two ?





Please tell me what boths sides of the murder of 3 year-old Johnathan Ball and 12 year old Tim Parry in Warrington ?

Perhaps Robert Macartney slipped, but who had the wherewithal to organise a riot so that police could not investigate the scene ?
Who organised the clean up of the crime scene during the riot and confiscation of video tapes ?

They are indisputable facts about ms ferris and her refusal to condemn a Garda killing.
If you want we can drag up the interview on the Late Late Show, I believe it is on youtube.
Are you going to claim youtube are anti SF and biased ?

ms ferris had ample opportunity, but refused.
She refused to back a vote in Kerry Co Council condemning the killing.

They had ample opportunity to answer the above without me going personally to any party office and asking them.

ei.sdraob

why did this go thru' my head when I read the thread title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

cancercowboy

It doesn't really pay to imagine. Labour have unequivocally stated that under no conditions would they form a government with Sinn Féin. This morning on newstalk Eamon Gilmore, labour party leader, stated that again and gave Sinn Féin's ridiculous and incoherent economic polices as the latest in a long list of reasons.

Sinn Féin will get the support of Éire when they 1.) get a coherent economic policy and 2.) don't have an IRA Army Council member as their party leader. Those are two deal breakers for me, and for many other people here in our republic.
The worst thing is Gerry Adams, Sinn Fein party leader, didn't seem to know what the economic party policy was. He claimed he would be able to negotiate with the bond markets, a faceless soulless entity. I am curious where this negotiation would have taken place... was he just going to walk into the New York Stock Exchange and start yelling "Ulster Says No"?
When you take a look at the Sinn Féin economic policy the numbers don't add up. It doesn't make any sense.

dolphin city

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

can I refer you to confused dot com

murf313

dynamick wrote: »

It would be completely brilliant. Just what every country needs when it's at it's lowest:
National Socialism! The combination of a party whose keystone is racism equipped with an armed youth wing and a social democratic version of the official IRA. Lovely.

sure didnt it work for germany in the 1930's....???

oh wait.........

dolphin city

jmayo wrote: »

Difference is the other parties that grew out of SF and the armed war of independence gave up arms a long time ago to create and run a state by democratic means.
Yes that state might only be the 26 counties, but at least they ran it peacefully.
Why was it SF's policy to not recognise the legitimacy of this state but the legitimacy of their Army council, an uneletected war council, as the rightful leaders of this country ?

As regard SF bringing peace to Northern Ireland, they brought a lot of death before that. :rolleyes:

FG (their predessors) set up a rule of law and a non paramilitary police force and the other major parties all signed up to it.
SF on the other hand failed to recognise this state until the 1980s, and by the looks of it some of them still do not recognise our rule of law and the legitimacy of our state's police force.

That is the difference and no ammount of harping back to Collins, Boland, O'Duffy or anyone else will change the fact that current prominent SF members refuse to condone the murder of members of our police force.

As regards SF and Labour government it is pie in the sky and we would be heading towards North Korean economy if SF policies were followed.
Then again ceertain Republicans (not SF or PIRA but IRA) had a fondness for North Korean dollars. :rolleyes:

another candidate for confused dot com

eddison

Hi Jmayo,

You made a guess at my age, that I must be in school! -fail.
Let me make a guess at your age group. You are over 60? maybe a retired pilot? You probably vote FG. Going by your post, have an extreme hatred of SF all your life?
If SF were to suddenly devote all their time to good works, you would still have a hatred of SF. I believe you think the only good SF member is a dead SF member, am I right?

I would guess that you share this extreme hatred with anyone, and everyone, at every opportunity, for the past 40 years, Am I right? You will never change your opinions, because you have had them for so long now, they are part of you.

No it is bit silly on your part to try and peddle total sh**e

Jmayo, i have a right to my opinions, and you should not try to stamp on them, because I disagree with you, that is what the the national socialist democratic party did. Everyone here has a right to their views without being abused for them. Please do not TRY abuse me because I have a different opinion than you.

indisputable facts

You keep saying this 'indisputable facts' 'indisputable facts' but what are the indisputable fatcs Jmayo. Lets replace 'indisputable facts' with 'NO EVIDENCE' there has never been any evidence that SF has killed anyone. Help everyone!!! Sinn Fein are going to get into government, and shoot everyone !!!
In fact, SF have stopped killing by the IRA.
SF brought peace to the north.

Now I' m not a fan of their economic policies, but I feel they have more integrity than ANY of the other parties. This is why they would be good as a FF/SF coalition, or SF/L coalition. IOW Sinn Fein would keep FF or Labour- honest. Don't think there is much chance of a SF/FG amalgamation lol!
All your points above relate to military organisations, and not SF. You have no inside information, and are free to abuse SF all you like, as much as you like, which you do, quite often. You like to group SF with IRA so you can aim more hatred at them. Thing is that Adams and SF brought peace to the north. IRA was not the only military force there. SF get votes. Ordinary people who they have helped, vote for them.

Two points- You have not answered my point that you have no experience, and therefore are talking about something which you have no experience of, and no clue. You ARE a victim of sectarian reporting, although you are not aware of this.
If you have no long term hatred of SF, then let me ask you a question..
What good things have they done?

d'Oracle

eddison wrote: »

In fact, SF have stopped killing by the IRA.
SF brought peace to the north.

How did they do that then?
Why didn't they stop it earlier?

Sinn Fein are the political arm of the PIRA.
They are intrinsically linked.

When the IRA kill Sinn Fein kill.

Bits_n_Bobs

A SF/Labour government would at least be short. I can't see the IMF/EU putting up with too much nonsense from the idiots till they quit lending money to us, at which point we would get to vote in other idiots...

jmayo

dolphin city wrote: »

another candidate for confused dot com

Why ?
Pray tell us what ws in my post that was confusing ?
Enlighten me please.

eddison wrote: »

Hi Jmayo,

You made a guess at my age, that I must be in school! -fail.
Let me make a guess at your age group. You are over 60? maybe a retired pilot? You probably vote FG. Going by your post, have an extreme hatred of SF all your life?

No actaully pretty wrong. If I was over 60 and retired i would have left this God forsaken country and let the eejits wreck as they liked.
Instead because of family committments I am stuck here.

Right I do have a ppl but I guess one can get that form reading my posts.
And yes I do vote FG and Labour rather than ff, sf or greens.
Actually as a kid growing up in 70s and 80s Ireland I actually did believe SF/PIRA were doing something fighting for the poor downtrodden nationalists.

But then I grew up and realised they were fighting for themselves, they were often praying on the very communities they claimed they were there to protect, they were no better than the thugs on the other side and that they were doing all the sh** in our name.

eddison wrote: »

If SF were to suddenly devote all their time to good works, you would still have a hatred of SF. I believe you think the only good SF member is a dead SF member, am I right?

Now stop trying to put words in my mouth. :mad:
I have no time for PIRA and the others (RIRA, RIRA) especially when they want to continue the killing, still try and control communities with fear and I have no time for their mouthpieces in SF who shout down anyone that disagrees or try and twist the facts to suit themselves.
Ever notice how SF say we should forget and move on from the crimes of PIRA, but drag out every and any action done by the other side.
And that would also include actions carried out by the first government of this state in the 1920s.

Fecks sake you make them sound like Mother Theresea.

eddison wrote: »

I would guess that you share this extreme hatred with anyone, and everyone, at every opportunity, for the past 40 years, Am I right? You will never change your opinions, because you have had them for so long now, they are part of you.

Oh boy you really are clutching at straws and pulling out sterotypes now.
So is everybody that abhores the sh** pulled by IRA and their excusers now entrenched haters ?
You really haven't a clue.

eddison wrote: »

Jmayo, i have a right to my opinions, and you should not try to stamp on them, because I disagree with you, that is what the the national socialist democratic party did. Everyone here has a right to their views without being abused for them. Please do not TRY abuse me because I have a different opinion than you.

Everyone does have a right to an opinion, but they do not have the bloody right to kill people or excuse others who kill.

I am not abusing you, I am challenging you for supporting and excusing certain politicans and what they have stood for, namely murder and what they continue to stand for, namely unresponsiblity for their previous actions.

Earlier you claimed my points were accusations leveled by a biased media.
You claimed it was from the biased Indo group and RTE.
You appeared to demand proof and basically were claiming the facts I posted were untrue.
When I challenged you on this you come back claiming I am abusing you.
Maybe it is becuase you can't answer why certain politicans that you support have excused murder, kidnapping, torture and wrecking families that you now come back claiming I am abusing you.

Well if you want to see what abuse is then read the facts about your heros in SF and the IRA.

eddison wrote: »

You keep saying this 'indisputable facts' 'indisputable facts' but what are the indisputable fatcs Jmayo. Lets replace 'indisputable facts' with 'NO EVIDENCE' there has never been any evidence that SF has killed anyone.

FFS this is of jim corr proportions.
Right this is getting tiresome.
When I fire one fact at you you counter with more bull rather than answer the questions.
What about members SF who have records for terrorist activity ?

eddison wrote: »

Help everyone!!! Sinn Fein are going to get into government, and shoot everyone !!!
In fact, SF have stopped killing by the IRA.
SF brought peace to the north.

Except in your narrowminded view you forget they and their brethern brought death and destruction for the preceeding 25 odd years. :rolleyes:

eddison wrote: »

Now I' m not a fan of their economic policies, but I feel they have more integrity than ANY of the other parties.

Integrity ?
Don't make us laugh.
Would that be the type of integrity the ex gun runner and collector of cop killers martin ferris has ?

eddison wrote: »

All your points above relate to military organisations, and not SF. You have no inside information, and are free to abuse SF all you like, as much as you like, which you do, quite often. You like to group SF with IRA so you can aim more hatred at them. Thing is that Adams and SF brought peace to the north. IRA was not the only military force there. SF get votes. Ordinary people who they have helped, vote for them.

Yeah SF and PIRA were not connected.
Maybe gerry adams was never on the Army Council.
Likewise ferris and mcguinness.
But then again why does everyone believe they were and why haven't they sued people for saying so ?

But didn't martin mcguinness admit his involvement in PIRA in Derry.
What about gerry kelly, imprisoned for involvement in Old Bailey bombings in London where 1 ided and hundreds injured.
After his escape from Maze prison, he is recaptured in 1986 in Holland along with brendan mcfarlane in the posession of cash in several currencies, maps, fake passports and the keys to a storage container holding 14 rifles, 100,000 rounds of ammunition and nitrobenzene.
martin ferris was never near the Marita Ann and it's load of arms.

I guest these prominent Shinners have absolutely no connection to the PIRA. :rolleyes:

Niall Binead (aged 36), of Faughart Road, Crumlin and Kenneth Donohoe (aged 27), of Sundale Avenue, Mountain View, Tallaght were each jailed for four years by the Special Criminal Court in 2004 after they were convicted of membership of an unlawful organisation styling itself the Irish Republican Army, otherwise Oglaigh na hEireann,

During their trial the court heard that gardaí found a list of TD's, including three former Justice Ministers, at Binead's home. Binead is a former secretary of a south Dublin Sinn Féin cumann and was a close associate of Sinn Féin TD for Dublin South Central Aengus O' Snodaigh.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sf-members-lose-appeal-against-ira-membership-convictions-286963.html#ixzz1C9dKeHat

eddison wrote: »

Two points- You have not answered my point that you have no experience, and therefore are talking about something which you have no experience of, and no clue. You ARE a victim of sectarian reporting, although you are not aware of this.
If you have no long term hatred of SF, then let me ask you a question..
What good things have they done?

As for what good did they do, well the leadership did convince their friends on the army council to try peaceful means and give up slaughtering people.
That was the good, but that still does not absolve them of the sh** they were a party to for the preceeding 25 odd years.

Oh I am a victim of sectarian reporting. :rolleyes:
Yeah all those deaths are figments of the imagination of a sectarian media. :rolleyes:

Is there any more tride sh** you can now wheel into this dicsussion ?

Now this is getting tiresome and probably a waste of our time as neither of us will ever agree.

eddison

Hi d'Oracle



Eoin O' Duffy was the first president of Fianna Gael. In 1917 Eoin O'Duffy joined the IRA. He became a guerrilla leader in the IRA during the War of Independence.
In 1933 Eoin O'Duffy controlled the National Guard. He re-modelled the organisation, using the Roman straight-arm salute. That is where the IRA get their salute from- Eoin O' Duffy, the first president of FG.


The venom towards SF has nothing to do with our future, it has to do with civil war politics. That is why the older people (taught by their parents) have such hatred and venom against Sinn Fein. We should really let this go, as it is holding the country back. Voting for only FG or FF has the country in the state it is in- both parties know they will get in somehow, and this has led us to disaster. Its time to give up old world treaty- anti treaty politics. It is destroying the country.

Capt'n Midnight

eddison wrote: »

The venom towards SF has nothing to do with our future, it has to do with civil war politics.

All politicla parties here (apart from the Greens) can trace their roots back to the original Sinn Fein, which has as much in common as the original IRA has with today's criminals.

But yet SF like to continue to claim that they alone inherit our common heritage. We are talking about a party with 8 elected representatives in the Dail where 7 left the party. And where the majority leaving the party and a small rump claiming to represent isn't a unique situation , it has happened on multiple ocassions.

When it comes to modern politics I don't give a crap what happened in the civil war, (except I will never forgive Dev ) since all the people involved are dead (?) and a lot of good people died needlessly, just like in the troubles because some people didn't want to do stuff they did later on ( again with Dev dealing with the British government )

FF and FG hate each other , just like Labour and the Tories or the Democrats and Republicans, and like them the original reasons are irrelevant.*But in the SF world the civil war continues.


The IRA used suicide bombers. Recruiting and sending out a volunteer out on a suicide mission that you aren't prepared to do yourself is pretty low and I have no respect for the terrorists who do that. However the IRA are even lower since they didn't use volunteers, they forced people do drive proxy bombs to checkpoints by threatening their families. Until Sinn Fein come out and unequivocally denounce this without reference to the situatition or what anyone else was doing AND detail the steps they took to stop it at the time OR expel those in the organisation who could but didn't try to stop it then they are complicit in those acts.

d'Oracle

eddison wrote: »

Hi d'Oracle



Eoin O' Duffy was the first president of Fianna Gael. In 1917 Eoin O'Duffy joined the IRA. He became a guerrilla leader in the IRA during the War of Independence.
In 1933 Eoin O'Duffy controlled the National Guard. He re-modelled the organisation, using the Roman straight-arm salute. That is where the IRA get their salute from- Eoin O' Duffy, the first president of FG.

Key points here ar 1917 and 1933.

You are talking rubbish.
Cheifly because you are equating the PIRA with the IRA.
But also because it is utterly irrelevant to todays politics,
Eoin O'Duffy is dead and FG have no control over the Provos...

eddison wrote: »

The venom towards SF has nothing to do with our future, it has to do with civil war politics. That is why the older people (taught by their parents) have such hatred and venom against Sinn Fein. We should really let this go, as it is holding the country back. Voting for only FG or FF has the country in the state it is in- both parties know they will get in somehow, and this has led us to disaster. Its time to give up old world treaty- anti treaty politics. It is destroying the country.

This is rubbish too.
The hatred towards SF is about killing people in the 70's and 80's. It has nothing to do with the civil war.
And fantasy bull**** economic policy.
Voting for political lunatics like SF would absolutely destroy the country.

eddison

Hello d'Oracle,


In March 1921 Eoin O Duffy the first president of Fianna Gael, was made commander of the IRA's 2nd Northern Division. Yes that is right the first president of Fianna Gael was the commander of the IRA's 2nd Nothern Division.
Later, (1922) he became IRA Chief of Staff, replacing Richard Mulcahy.


Now yes, absolutely Fianna Gael have no control over the IRA today, but it was not always that way. In fact an IRA man was the first president of Fianna Gael, and therefore, indirectly, Fianna Gael had plenty of control over the IRA.

But today it is different, even though fianna gael and the IRA were inextricably linked, they are not that way today.

Sinn Fein are not the same as they were many years ago. Obviously like Fianna Gael they had links, or they would not have been able to ask the IRA to destroy their weapons, which they did by the way.


So Sinn Fein has moved on. It is the older people above 55 who have not.
d'Oracle, can you see how silly all this is? All this treaty and anti treaty politics, where SINN FIEN ARE GOIN INTA GOVERNMENT AND THEY WILL SHOOT US ALL!
Its all just sillyness now. There is peace in the North, lets move on.