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Why I won't be voting Sinn Fein

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24567…10

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    #32
    RightHalfBack
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭RightHalfBack


    Ill probably vote for Sinn fein and give second preference to Labour so the vote will essentially go to the Labour candidate. But listening to the labour guy on the frontline this evening was the very same as listening to any dinosaur FF or FG guy, he spoke for ages but said nothing.

    Now whether you agree with Pearse Doherty or not at least he makes clear points with little waffle, so its very easy to decide if you agree with him or not.


    Similar to Joe Higgins during the week, whether he was right or wrong at least he had the balls to say what he thought to be true,


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    #33
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    I can see why. :)
    I have no problem with people taking a stab at SF, but what does annoy me is the hypocrisy that a lot of people seem to have when taking such stabs. For example, when people state that they wouldn't vote for them because of past links with the IRA when both FF and FG can trace thier routes to the same organisation. What's the difference?

    Yeh I agree, I was implicitly making the point that people shouldn't be considering the IRA connections when considering whether to vote SF but rather just take the simpler view of their proven hypocrisy.

    As for your point on different policies for different nations. I think you confuse individual, local policies with ideologies. I am saying that SF have two different (and opposing ideologies). Obviously policies at the micro scale will differ but you can't be giving with one hand and taking back with the other and not be a hypocrite.


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    #34
    jonnny68
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Absolutely, they crave the legitimacy that being in power in the 32 counties would bring. They are complete hypocrites. According to some sources they've been purging leftists from the party down here for years now. They've no interest in pushing a true left agenda. Hence, if you're on the left you should vote ULA.


    well said -
    they've been purging leftists from the party down here for years now. They've no interest in pushing a true left agenda
    all true as well.


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    #35
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    And SF have not ruled out coalition with either FF or FG. A position the ULA have pledged to adopt if candidates are elected. So, would SF sell out and join them in coalition and basically deliver the cuts they currently oppose? Well, we all know the answer to that :)

    They have.


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    #36
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Evidence please.


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    #37
    Balmed Out
    Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    I can see why. :)
    I have no problem with people taking a stab at SF, but what does annoy me is the hypocrisy that a lot of people seem to have when taking such stabs. For example, when people state that they wouldn't vote for them because of past links with the IRA when both FF and FG can trace thier routes to the same organisation. What's the difference?

    Theres a big difference, a very big one. The ira of the war of independence bombed the ruc or the british army. the ira of recent years were as likely to target shopping centres or pubs. They were terrorists. Thats a very very big difference.

    Its going to be very embarrasing to Irelands international image if they are going to be the largest party of the opposition.

    Ont top of that their economic policies make no sense other then they dont expect ot have to try to stand by them as they know they will not be in power.


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    #38
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I'm not hung up on their past too much anymore. I'm more so hung up on how they supported the bailout and their implementations up North.

    Sinn Fein did not support the bailout, where are you getting this information from?
    And with regards to the North, as you are well aware, the North is an exception to left-right politics, as the Northern Assembly was set up as a conflict resolution mechanism. There is no leading party. The North has feck all control over it's fiscal affairs.
    If Sinn Fein were to demand a left-leaning economic policy for the North, they would be laughed at from all sides, end up leaving the coalition and send the peace process back 20 years.
    There is no other option at this stage.


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    #39
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    If you have no control over fiscal policy then you should withdraw from government and refuse to implement cuts. You're either with the working class or against them. That is no excuse! SF voted for the bank guarantee. And where is your evidence that SF have categorically ruled out coalition with FF/FG?


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    #40
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I'm not Sinn Féin's harshest critic - but let's remember that they voted with FF/FG for the disastrous Bank Guarantee. Only Labour said no.

    Can you explain why it was disastrous? And maybe provide a viable alternative?

    Thanks.





    Dan


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    #41
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Sinn Fein did not support the bailout, where are you getting this information from?
    And with regards to the North, as you are well aware, the North is an exception to left-right politics, as the Northern Assembly was set up as a conflict resolution mechanism. There is no leading party. The North has feck all control over it's fiscal affairs.
    If Sinn Fein were to demand a left-leaning economic policy for the North, they would be laughed at from all sides, end up leaving the coalition and send the peace process back 20 years.
    There is no other option at this stage.
    It's common knowledge that they voted in favour of it along with the government and Fine Gael.


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    #42
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    If you have no control over fiscal policy then you should withdraw from government and refuse to implement cuts. You're either with the working class or against them. That is no excuse! SF voted for the bank guarantee. And where is your evidence that SF have categorically ruled out coalition with FF/FG?

    If Sinn Fein withdraw from the assembly, where do you think that would leave the North? It would end up becoming the same Unionist-driven sectarian state that it was in past, which led to the Troubles.
    Sinn Fein did not vote for the bank guarantee.
    Martin McGuinness said on the Late Late Show that he categorically rules out going into coalition with Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.


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    #43
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Can you explain why it was disastrous? And maybe provide a viable alternative?

    Thanks.





    Dan

    Are you taking the mick? The bank guarantee basically guaranteed the bondholders wouldn't be burnt and hence is the reason why we need this IMF bailout.


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    #44
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Can you explain why it was disastrous? And maybe provide a viable alternative?

    Thanks.





    Dan

    Though that was really obvious. The guarantees were a temporary measure given to the banks to allow them time to sort out their debts. That hasn't happened.


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    #45
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    If Sinn Fein withdraw from the assembly, where do you think that would leave the North? It would end up becoming the same Unionist-driven sectarian state that it was in past, which led to the Troubles.
    Sinn Fein did not vote for the bank guarantee.
    Martin McGuinness said on the Late Late Show that he categorically rules out going into coalition with Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

    SF did vote for the bank guarantee. We've already had this argument this week. Do a google. As I said, SF are for the working class or against them, pull out of government and renegotiate a new arrangement which allows you to control fiscal policy OR deliver cuts and be hypocrites. Exactly what position does Martin McGuinness hold in the southern SF party?


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    #46
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    Voltwad wrote: »
    It's common knowledge that they voted in favour of it along with the government and Fine Gael.

    Sinn Fein never supported the bank bailout. If you go look at the Dail records, you will find that they voted against it. What they did support, and they are sorry that they did, was give Brian Lenihan greater powers as Minister of Finance, which he used to come up with the bank bailout.


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    #47
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    Can you explain why it was disastrous? And maybe provide a viable alternative?

    Thanks.





    Dan
    It sold the people of Ireland, their children and their children's children down the river in favour of a select few. An alternative would have been to consider the people that they are elected to govern for and not the aims of their fellow travellers.


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    #48
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Exactly what position does Martin McGuinness hold in the southern SF party?

    There is no separate North/South party. It's an All-Ireland party.


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    #49
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Pretty sure they voted in favour of the blanket guarantees.


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    #50
    Pat D. Almighty
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Pat D. Almighty


    squod wrote: »
    Pretty sure they voted in favour of the blanket guarantees.

    Go back and check the Dail records....they did not vote in favour of the blanket guarantees.


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    #51
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Voltwad wrote: »
    SF would go in with anyone I suspect.
    I suspect they wouldn't go in with anyone. They want to hurl on the ditch and play the populist card. I think they would be horrified if one of the big parties called their bluff.


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    #52
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    SF are a convenient bogeyman for Independent Newspapers/RTE/Fianna Fail. Its all a game.

    Thats my 2c anyway, cynical I know, but at least I'm not adhering to the past.


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    #53
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    Go back and check the Dail records....they did not vote in favour of the blanket guarantees.

    Listened to Newstalk interview ML Mc D. She put the same point across as you. Truth be told they voted with the government initially on the blanket guarantees.


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    #54
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Ill be voting Sinn Fein..


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    #55
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Pat D. Almighty wrote: »
    There is no separate North/South party. It's an All-Ireland party.

    Right, well provide a transcript or link to the video. Was it a categorical denial?


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    #56
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    charlemont wrote: »
    Ill be voting Sinn Fein..

    I'll vote for anyone who won't form a government with FG or FF.


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    #57
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    I'd be of the opinion that the time is right for a change.
    Even a return to arms.
    But not just here, we need to retake our own destiny, and deny the new world order.
    We cannot be any worse off, and might even find support.


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    #58
    ghostdancer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    sdonn wrote: »
    Wait a sec.

    Adams, McGuinness, Ferris.

    All have danced with the devil that is subversive activity (allegedly) in their past.

    That, and that alone, would be enough to put me off voting for them in their current guise. Let alone the oodles of other policies I do or do not disagree with.

    FF have plenty of corruption in their ranks.
    Enda Kenny personally tried to get an FG TD off a drink-driving arrest by instructing a Garda to ignore what they had seen, just this past summer.
    plenty of Labour are former members of the political wing of the Official IRA.

    you can find plenty of illegality in all parties if you look hard enough.


    at one point, people regarded FF and FG as being political parties formed from a group who murdered their way towards a united Ireland.


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    #59
    ghostdancer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I'm not Sinn Féin's harshest critic - but let's remember that they voted with FF/FG for the disastrous Bank Guarantee. Only Labour said no.

    this is the same Labour that are doing everything possible to push through* the Finance Bill, yeah?




    *push through on FF's watch, so Labour they can't be accused of passing it while they were in government themselves.


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    #60
    BLIZZARD7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭BLIZZARD7


    Voltwad wrote: »
    It sold the people of Ireland, their children and their children's children down the river in favour of a select few. An alternative would have been to consider the people that they are elected to govern for and not the aims of their fellow travellers.

    A select few, who exactly ? I am quite sure that Brian lenihan was told by the EU to stop all Irish banks from failing, at all costs. So he didn't really have a choice.



    I dont think there is any question as to whether the finance bill should be passed or not, if we don't implement it the IMF/EU will stop funding us and the country will run out of money in a few months. Or the IMF will take control of our finances and then we will see very severe cuts in all sectors, and the debt will be cut too nothing within 4 years. Which might be a good thing in the longterm. You only have to look at Latvia to see the cuts they would impose.





    Dan


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    #61
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    FF and FG, the two biggest parties in Ireland by some stretch, are both originally military bodies. The idea that Sinn Fein aren't allowed make the same transition is bu11sh1t.
    As long as they let us vote again in 4 years time I'm happy enough to give them a chance.:D


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