Tesco. no comeback with unsuitable DTT TV

Rowley Birkin QC · 20-01-2011 9:01pm

watty wrote: »

Of course

Why when a good compatible one costs no more and costs less than some.

There is no value at all in deliberately looking for an Incompatible TV.

That's akin to deliberately looking for a brand new Left hand Drive car that you are only ever going to use in Ireland.

If it is ONLY for an Xbox you can save money by buying a Monitor. Monitors are cheaper than HDTVs, because there is no Tuner.

My angle is that I'm guessing there is a number of these returned tvs sitting in electrical retailers store rooms that could be bought for handy money as they are second hand and, in terms of saorview, not fit for purpose.

watty · 20-01-2011 10:01pm

I think you would be wrong.

Unless you bought a container load or pallet.

There are not that many.

The Retailers don't keep them.

maxg · 20-01-2011 10:04pm

watty wrote: »

In your opinion. Which is not backed up by any facts and is in the minority.

You have also consistently "twisted" and taken out of context points that have been made.

Axer wrote down his facts. The important point is fit for purpose at the the time of sale. There was simply no official irish dtt on air in 2009. There was not even a hint for a official launch date in 2009.

Sponge Bob · 20-01-2011 10:17pm

axer wrote: »

Im not making any claim of rights. Im at the default position of there being no rights. I see no evidence of rights for this scenario.

You won't seeing as you seemingly never read the law. Read the entire Unfair Commercial Practices section from the 2007 Act. I refer to sections 41 to 46 ONLY .

YOU tell me what sections are NOT breached by Tesco out of that lot, and why

HappyHarry · 20-01-2011 10:36pm

maxg wrote: »

Axer wrote down his facts. The important point is fit for purpose at the the time of sale. There was simply no official irish dtt on air in 2009. There was not even a hint for a official launch date in 2009.

The specification was published, and the retailers knew that the sets in question were not compatible.

I don't believe that fit for purpose at the the time of sale is the overriding factor under the Irish law and EU directive.

The UK sale of goods act in more along those lines but even that is favorable to the consumer for the first 6 months after purchase. It gets a bit more complicate after 6 months, but no need to get into that as it's a different jurisdiction.

maxg wrote: »

There was not even a hint for a official launch date in 2009.

And that is relevant how? They still should have stated that the "Digital TV" they were falsely advertising in ROI on the box did not apply in ROI and was to UK standard for UK areas only.

maxg · 20-01-2011 10:49pm

HappyHarry wrote: »

The specification was published, and the retailers knew that the sets in question were not compatible.

What are specifications worth without a official service?

I don't believe that fit for purpose at the the time of sale is the overriding factor under the Irish law and EU directive.

Where are irish law and/or EU directives refering to any capabilities in the future?
Btw do you say a FullHD TV has to support 3D in the future?

watty · 20-01-2011 11:09pm

maxg wrote: »

Axer wrote down his facts. The important point is fit for purpose at the the time of sale. There was simply no official irish dtt on air in 2009. There was not even a hint for a official launch date in 2009.

Not true.

It doesn't need to be on air either. The Specs published, the service was announced. The fact that the service launch was delayed many times gave no-one the right to incorrectly label TVs in Ireland.

The Retailers in any case from March 2008 could have correctly labelled the TVs. Certainly Summer 2008 at latest. The point is NOT the future service, but the mislabelling of the TVs.

If there is no service OR the TVs are not compatible was problem with adding a clear disclaimer. Maybe some people didn't WANT the public making choices or knowing that certain models would be "obsolete" and others would be fine.

HappyHarry · 20-01-2011 11:13pm

maxg wrote: »

What are specifications worth without a official service?

I assume you being genuine and not just trying to be difficult. So I'll answer your question.

The specification allowed two things:

1) sets could have been provided that will work with the service when it is launched - which would have been in the normal expected lifespan of the TVs we are discussing. There was an EU requirement for DTT to be live by end of 2012 at the latest.

2) more importantly, the retailers could see that the stock they were busy dumping in ROI market would never live up to what it was being advertised as capable of. I.E. providing Digital TV pictures (with a third party box doesn't count unless that was specified). So they should have stated that Digital TV in these TVs not suitable for ROI.

maxg wrote: »

Where are irish law and/or EU directives refering to any capabilities in the future?

I think you know that there are none and I'm not saying there are or should be. This is all about the claims on the boxes that the TV did something that it didn't, doesn't and never will do in the market where they were sold ROI. I don't see you point, are you trying to make a Strawman argument?

maxg wrote: »

Btw do you say a FullHD TV has to support 3D in the future?

Of course not, but if a TV says it does 3D, then it should do that. You are ridiculously off off point with that comment and trying to set up another strawman argument as per HD example give by previous poster.

The point is: the TVs don't do and will never do what they claimed on the box. The retailers knew this and it is almost certain they deliberately dumped the stock on ROI because it is even becoming obsolete in UK / NI.

Tesco and Currys seem able to supply FreeView HD equipment up the road in NI even though there is no service live. This same equipment would work with Irish DTT.

watty · 20-01-2011 11:38pm

HappyHarry wrote: »

I assume you being genuine and not just trying to be difficult. .

Hmm ... search other posts by maxg and axer. Clicking on someone's name ...

maxg · 20-01-2011 11:40pm

Where wrote Tescos on the box the sanyo TV from 2009 will support irish TV? The name saorview was not choosen at the time.

maxg · 20-01-2011 11:43pm

watty wrote: »

Hmm ... search other posts by maxg and axer. Clicking on someone's name ...

Is it possible to perform these discussion without any form of insults?

matt-dublin · 20-01-2011 11:54pm

With all this argument I still haven't seen any evidence showing any if the retailers are returning tv's contrary to several claims in this thread.

If this was the case everyone and their aunt would be going back to get their money back.

Also is a tv bought a year ago refused at original purchase value? A full hd digital tv last year is almost the same price as a 3d tv this year.

There's way too many claims but no evidence to back anything up

Sponge Bob · 21-01-2011 12:12am

matt-dublin wrote: »

With all this argument I still haven't seen any evidence showing any if the retailers are returning tv's contrary to several claims in this thread.

The branches must contact head office before they can refund, if not you go to the small claims court and say that Tesco knowingly sold you a pup. It costs €15 to fight the case over a €1500 telly, now that is good value :cool:

HappyHarry · 21-01-2011 12:22am

maxg wrote: »

Where wrote Tescos on the box the sanyo TV from 2009 will support irish TV? The name saorview was not choosen at the time.

Another attempt at a strawman argument? Or are you just trying to wind people up? It seems that in every post you try and twist or mis-represent what people are saying and avoid the topic at hand. Maybe you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. Kind of ruins the credibility of you posts.

No-one said it was written on the box that it "will support Irish TV" but something sold as a TV in ROI should serve that purpose.

In the cases we are discussing the box said "Digital TV" not just TV.

matt-dublin wrote:

With all this argument I still haven't seen any evidence showing any if the retailers are returning tv's contrary to several claims in this thread.

So you think people are making it up? If you require proof of everything that is said why waste you time on the internet? What evidence do you expect? Perhaps people should video their trips to the retailers and post them online?

I see you are a fan of Maxg's posts, that explains a lot :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight · 21-01-2011 2:54am

Skyuser wrote: »

Tesco are not in the wrong here. They never advertised the tv as Saorview capable.

You need a TV license for a TV.

If you have a device that doesn't have a TV tuner it's not a TV. Monitors don't require TV licenses, but a video recorder with a tuner does.

Shortly Saorview will be the only game in town. You will either need a TV with an MPG4 tuner OR a separate device with it's own tuner to receive TV broadcasts.

The TV said DIGITAL - if you use a SCART set top box you are still on analogue. If you use HDMI then (like SCART) you are using the TV as a monitor and would not have to buy a TV license.

Short version : Once analogue transmissions are turned off , the device will no longer be able to receive broadcast transmissions and it will cease to be a TV, so it will no longer be as described.

maxg · 21-01-2011 11:25pm

HappyHarry wrote: »

Another attempt at a strawman argument? Or are you just trying to wind people up? It seems that in every post you try and twist or mis-represent what people are saying and avoid the topic at hand. Maybe you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. Kind of ruins the credibility of you posts.

Do you know the saying play the ball and not the man?
Are your arguments so weak?

No-one said it was written on the box that it "will support Irish TV" but something sold as a TV in ROI should serve that purpose.

Nobody can say something against "should". In your older posting you are saying the law say so without any proof.

In the cases we are discussing the box said "Digital TV" not just TV.

Ah well and why such TV's don't have to support satellite in your opinion? Digital broadcast is digital broadcast.

Mike 1972 · 21-01-2011 11:26pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The TV said DIGITAL - if you use a SCART set top box you are still on analogue. If you use HDMI then (like SCART) you are using the TV as a monitor and would not have to buy a TV license. .

Only if the legal definition of a television set is suitably amended which unfortunately seems unlikely..

watty · 22-01-2011 12:40pm

maxg wrote: »

Ah well and why such TV's don't have to support satellite in your opinion? Digital broadcast is digital broadcast.

Satellite isn't terrestrial. It's an add on service like cable.

Note that the TV licence is not about a TV per-se, but about an overall apparatus that can be more than one box (i.e. tuner box + monitor box), but since 1936 or so the universally accepted definition of a Television is display of video and Sound sound via demodulation of an RF Signal from an aerial using an integral tuner. Since about the same time the universal definition of a "Monitor" is a display (sound is optional connection) that takes un-modulated "baseband" video without any RF tuner, directly.

No need to confuse TV sets with TV licences. Not the same thing.

A Digital TV is designed that the aerial receives a Terrestrial signal feeds an RF tuner, the analogue output (baseband) from the tuner is digitised and decoded to give the video display and sound output. The only difference from Analogue TV to Digital TV is that the Analogue Modulation and the Terrestrial Radio signal represents digital data and not analogue brightness levels.

Analogue
There are basically two main incompatible types of SECAM, Two main kinds of PAL (sub types of PAL have incompatible sound), and one main kind of NTSC. All of these use a separated added Colour analogue signal to what was originally a 625 line (576 digital is same visible lines) or a 525 line Monochrome signal.

Only TVs compatible with PAL-I where sold in Ireland via Retail. Later some added extra compatibility such as NTSC, SECAM or PAL B/G. No one would have expected to sell a TV set without PAL-I, as that is implied by selling a TV set in Ireland. Note that NO monitor uses PAL-I, even if it's PAL Composite. Some unscrupulous retailers in Ireland did sell some UK market PAL-I sets which had no UHF tuner. They always refunded/replaced if there was a complaint. Originally Argos would not sell UHF only TVs or Aerials here.

Sale of Goods Act and Common sense applied.

Totally Defunct TV signals are:
405 line, 441 line, 819 line monochrome (NTSC 405 was tested though!)
The Hybrid Analogue Digital never used Terrestrially, only on Satellite.
625 line hybrid Digital (Satellite only, DMAC, D2MAC)
1125 line Hybrid. (1080 visible NHK HD )

There many Terrestrial (via Aerial ) Digital

So we have

DVB-T Originally MPEG2 (Now also backward compatible DVB-T, and MPEG4 versions)
ATSC (North America Compromise Modulation similar to Analogue Spectrum)
ISDB-T (includes Japanese and South America, Incompatible)
DMB-T

Just like there were different PAL versions (one totally incompatible and the rest incompatible on Sound) but PAL-I was for UK, Ireland and a few other places, but Ireland needed a VHF tuner a Digital TV sold Retail in Ireland implies:

Signal is received via the Aerial and integral RF tuner. Just like Analogue.
Must be DVB-T (just like Analogue Must be PAL)
The DVB-T flavour must include MPEG4, not just MPEG2 video and AAC+, not just MP2 audio and MHEG5, not just basic DVB information. Just like PAL-I and a VHF /UHF tuner was implied by an Analogue TV sale.

The UK market packaging always has
Freeview Logo and/or word. This is separate from Digital. This is one of two UK services. This means it has the MHEG5 needed for Ireland.
Digital tick logo or Digital wording. This indicates it's DVB-T and since for UK market, not ATSC, ISDB-T or DMB-T
Additional descriptive text about Digital
Occasionally DVB/T
Very occasionally mentions MPEG2. Rarely mentions MPEG4 even if the TV does it.

The government warned people and CEDA warned Retailer and Manufacturers in February 2008 about labelling.

After March 2008 and Before October 2009
1) Simply putting a label Analogue Only in Ireland is fine.
2) Labelling it Incompatible with Irish Digital is fine.
3) Labelling it May be compatible with Irish Digital (because it has MPEG4) is fine.
4) Leaving the labelling on packaging "as is" implies it's a Digital TV for Ireland. Because unless there is a disclaimer that it has no MPEG4, then "freeview" (indicates needed MHEG5), Digital tick (Indicated correct tuner) etc are correct and sale in Irish Retail implies MPEG4, like Analogue PAL sales in Ireland implied PAL-I.

In the Sale of Goods Act, there is clear Refund, Repair or Replacement if the unit is not fit for use or of merchantable quality. The Package Description specifically is mentioned in the act as defining the Contract between Retailer and Customer as to the Use, so as warned by Government and CEDA the Retailers needed to amend the labelling.

There was no onus to sell compatible TVs. Only to not mislead about what they actually selling.

Why did no retailer anywhere to my knowledge amend the labelling? A phone call or fax quickly establishes which (ever increasing from late 2008) Models are compatible or not to slap appropriate labels.

Could it be that the Retail trade assumed that would hurt sales of incompatible models and they thought they would get less than 10% complaints/returns anyway due to 80% used as Monitors and few people knowing consumer rights?

They didn't break the law. As long as they sort out people that are firm about replacement/refund they are not breaking any law.

But it's a travesty to suggest this is not covered by the Act and it shows how poor Consumer protection and Publicity is that nothing whatsoever was done or is being done about the labelling of Retail stock in Ireland.

It's a separate bizarre issue as to why the "public" information campaign didn't start in Mid 2008 and is only due to start end of February 2011, elections permitting. http://www.saortv.info/2011/01/21/saorview-launch-on-track-for-may-2011/ Partly that is due to DCNER/Government/BCI/BAI wanting to "hold back" Public Service DTT information and Rollout till search for someone to take up Pay DTT licence was exhausted.

No one is claiming the Retailers had to sell compatible TVs in 2008 to 2010.
No one is claiming the Retailers broke any law then or now.
But if they ARE selling a TV that says Digital on it, they are obliged to sort out complaining customers if the "Digital" doesn't work. A "no Freeview" disclaimer is irrelevant as that is just one of two UK services on DVB-T (Digital) and wasn't even on UK DTT originally. Saorview is even really the same name!

Again the Government has fallen down on the job. Minister Ryan should have signed an SI or whatever as provisioned by the Broadcasting Act to set the ASO date back probably in August 2010. RTE assumes, and Ryan has said (but not signed to law) Q4 2012. November 2012 has been Mentioned. N.I. ASO plan has not been published because they want / need to co-ordinate with Ireland. But Ireland despite "mentioning" November 2012 and q4 2012 has not signed anything. The UK in previous ASO by area avoids a switch off between November and January, so 31th October/1st November 2012 makes sense.

Any Retailer with any sense ought since December (before Christmas rush) have had prominent notices warning that all Analogue Only TVs will only be SCART or HDMI monitors (no Aerial signal) after Q4 2012. Argos are verbally warning customers.

Why is no Retailer doing this yet? Too many incompatible Digital TVs they hope to get less than 10% returns on?

Meanwhile my recommendation stands. Print pages from the Sale of Goods Act. If you didn't buy the TV in last month or so have a good explanation as to why you left it so long to complain. (didn't know service had started, so had not done a Digital Scan would be true for most. After all the Publicity doesn't start for over a month yet!) print RTE http://www.rte.ie/saorview/ pages and www.saortv.info pages. Be firm and polite. You need proof of purchase but not package.

The retailer will likely refund or replace. It's worth going to Small Claims Court if they don't.

Known reports of Replace/Refund of TVs labelled Digital, but incompatible

DID electrical - Replace TV bought several months ago this week. Unusually Video Worked, but no MHEG5. MHEG5 unlike Teletext isn't optional for compatibility. All "Freeview" and "Freeview HD" sets do MHEG5.
Argos - many refunds since November 2010
M&S - obtained replacement model not even in store. Prior Nov 2010
Aldi - 3rd Nov 2010: Refund on 2009 sale.
Tesco: After 28 days they never replace/refund without call to HQ. HQ usually authorise refund. You need to insist that they ask HQ.
Power City: yes
Lidl: Replacements (when they had them) and Refunds
PCWorld/Currys: Yes

The longer you leave it past November 2010, the harder it will be to explain your case, even though the time limitations for "Damages" under the Act is 6 years. The NCA site explains this too.
via http://www.wattystuff.net/2011/01/money-back-if-it-isnt-a-tv/

Sam Russell · 22-01-2011 1:20pm

Further on Watty's post above, I bought a Picnic box from Curry's and every part of the box had the original material covered with blank labels. The Picnic box was to provide a new Sky service that never happened and so were dumped on the market, with no claims whatsoever as to what they could do, as the service was never going to happen

All that is needed to cover retailers is to put a label over the Freeview words saying 'NOT SUITABLE FOR IRELAND's DIGITAL TV SERVICE' or words to that effect.

watty · 22-01-2011 1:28pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

All that is needed to cover retailers is to put a label over the Freeview I]and Digital [/I words saying 'NOT SUITABLE FOR IRELAND's DIGITAL TV SERVICE' or words to that effect.

The €1,500,000 question is why did they not?

Why was Currys selling a Picnic in Ireland at all? It's not even usable as Monitor. You can't even sell it as a satellite Radio unless a 7" LCD monitor included for the GUI.

Johnboy1951 · 22-01-2011 3:24pm

Maybe I am wrong .... not being a legal eagle .......

but if I purchased a

"Digital TV"

in this jurisdiction then I have every right to expect that device to function correctly within the jurisdiction in a manner that I as purchaser would reasonably expect. (Will receive and display correctly Irish Digital TV signals)

The matter then, IMO, would hinge around whether or not the seller had reasonable access to the specifications (at the time of sale) to determine if the device would indeed work in the jurisdiction.
I believe that to be the case ...... the specifications had been determined and published.

So if I purchased a Digital TV in Ireland in late 2009, and even if I did not test the functions of that TV until 2011, I would have every right to expect those functions to be present and working correctly.

If the Irish Digital TV service is not receivable on that device then I believe that device does not comply with its advertised functions.
That it may be suitable in another jurisdiction is of no interest or concern to me the purchaser. Likewise if I purchased Digital TV in France, I would not necessarily expect it to function in this jurisdiction, and would not expect to have any claim on the seller because of that.

As such I would fully expect to receive a refund or replacement should I chose to return the device.

regards.

watty · 22-01-2011 3:37pm

Indeed, nothing to do with digital. What you describe was exactly the case during Analogue in 1970s to 1990s.

Same applies to an FM radio. A Japanese Home market model does about 76MHz to 90MHz approx. Our Band is 87.5Mhz to 108MHz, I think. It says FM radio on the box.
A few were sold by accident. Also a problem of course on many of the 2nd hand Car Japanese Imports.

Sam Russell · 22-01-2011 3:55pm

watty wrote: »

Why was Currys selling a Picnic in Ireland at all? .

They did not sell them in Ireland. I bought mine in the UK.

channelsurfer2 · 22-01-2011 6:24pm

new argos catalogue out today.. mentions that the digital and freeview facilities on most of its tv's are not available in the republic of ireland... so much for clarity re mpg4 and saorview...

watty · 22-01-2011 6:46pm

It's what they SHOULD have said over two years ago.
Does it identify ANY TVs as compatible (That's not important, they don't have to, nor obliged to sell any).

What does it say about Analogue Switch Off?

They told me a fortnight ago that the new Catalogue would identify compatible TVs, becuase in the store that didn't know and had been told to verbally warn anyone buying a TV that "Analogue would be turned off in 2012 and Most Digital TVs not compatible unless they have MPEG4".

http://www.argos.ie/static/Browse/ID72/14419667/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/2|cat_14419512|Televisions|14419667.htm

I'm not sure...

Please note that the digital and Freeview features of this TV are not available in the Republic of Ireland

Correct wording of disclaimer unlike Tesco,
BUT do they actually have it on the correct Models?
No disclaimer on Bush http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5369973.htm

This LG 42LD450 is 100% compatible as far as I can tell

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5368644/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/3|cat_19780832|Televisions|14419667.htm
Please note that the digital and Freeview features of this TV are not available in the Republic of Ireland

I have one here and it even does the TV3/TG4 EBU teletext vs RTE MHEG text on RTE channels properly (some Strict D-Book models will ignore EBU Teletext if there is MHEG5 text)

Oh dear. Anyone else want to check out a few?

Sam Russell · 22-01-2011 7:46pm

watty wrote: »

It's what they SHOULD have said over two years ago.
Does it identify ANY TVs as compatible (That's not important, they don't have to, nor obliged to sell any).

What does it say about Analogue Switch Off?

They told me a fortnight ago that the new Catalogue would identify compatible TVs, becuase in the store that didn't know and had been told to verbally warn anyone buying a TV that "Analogue would be turned off in 2012 and Most Digital TVs not compatible unless they have MPEG4".

http://www.argos.ie/static/Browse/ID72/14419667/c_1/1|category_root|Home+entertainment+and+sat+nav|14419512/c_2/2|cat_14419512|Televisions|14419667.htm

I'm not sure...

Correct wording of disclaimer unlike Tesco,
BUT do they actually have it on the correct Models?
No disclaimer on Bush http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5369973.htm

This LG 42LD450 is 100% compatible as far as I can tell

I have one here and it even does the TV3/TG4 EBU teletext vs RTE MHEG text on RTE channels properly (some Strict D-Book models will ignore EBU Teletext if there is MHEG5 text)

Oh dear. Anyone else want to check out a few?

This disclaimer is not right either. When laundry indications were required to placed on garments, a lot of producers put 'Dry Clean Only' on everything. This was found to be misleading if in fact the garment could be laundered by more normal methods.

Putting a disclaimer on a product saying 'No claims are made re this product and the purchaser accepts full responsibility for its use' would be nonsense and would be thrown out by any court as going against every consumer law.

There has to be good faith on behalf of the retailer. That is fundamental to any consumer law, and erring with no disclaimer, or a blanket disclaimer, is no real defense. It is just as much a misleading ruse.

But at least the purchaser will be made aware that questions should be asked. Worth only two cheers, I'm afraid.

axer · 22-01-2011 7:50pm

watty wrote: »

You simply stated you didn't agree. Not once have you offered a clear explanation or evidence of why your opinion is correct.

You are working on the assumption that fit for purpose lasts a certain amount of time but that is not in the law anywhere. If goods are fit for purpose at the time of purchase then they are fit for purpose. I have asked for some proof in law, a judgement or even something from a body like the NCA but you have not provided this - as I dont think there is such information available. At best this is a grey area and is far from clear in law.

TV's bought with UHF/VHF tuners will work as televisions in Ireland right now thus they are fit for purpose and from what I know there are no definitive dates for switch off of the analogue signals yet.

My opinion is that your opinion has no evidence to back it up just complete unqualified speculation.

Is this clear enough for you? Can you provide any specific evidence?

axer · 22-01-2011 7:56pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Short version : Once analogue transmissions are turned off , the device will no longer be able to receive broadcast transmissions and it will cease to be a TV, so it will no longer be as described.

Its description only matters at the time of contract formation. Its caveat emptor! A TV is a device that is capable of recieving television broadcast signals and displaying the picture and outputing the audio.

A TV does not stop being a TV just because there is no signal for it to pick up. Is a television in specific parts of Ireland where you cannot receive RTE etc not a TV?

watty · 22-01-2011 11:52pm

you are splitting hairs. I know someone that will sell you a 405 TV.

axer, don't you care at all about consumers in this country?

Both Minister Ryan, RTE and others that are official have stated Analogue is ceasing in q4 2012. Minister Ryan has stated this in public record in answer to TDs. It is a fact.

axer you are just choosing to ignore the plain meaning of law, when Retailers are not. You are helping no-one and simply thing that if you repeat your refutation of facts that people will somehow go away and not bother looking for refunds.

I have no vested interest. What's yours?

watty · 23-01-2011 12:04am

axer wrote: »

TV's bought with UHF/VHF tuners will work as televisions in Ireland right now thus they are fit for purpose and from what I know there are no definitive dates for switch off of the analogue signals yet.

How many people would buy them if the Shop clearly labelled them:

Incompatible with Irish Digital TV.
This TV will not receive TV via the Aerial after Analogue Switch off in Q4 2021

There is not an exact date set yet. But it is 100% fact that in January 2013 there will be no Analogue TV.

Currently the is no law to stop Shops selling TVs that are not Digital Compatible. But the shop is generally going to lose if the consumer can show they were misled at time of sale.

Tesco. no comeback with unsuitable DTT TV

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