Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Otacon · 21-01-2011 3:28pm

Can contracts not be bought out?

Anyway, hearing the match-day squad for tomorrow's game, I am actually starting to believe Nagle should leave. Forget about Kidney out, I want McGahan OUT!

Amazotheamazing · 21-01-2011 4:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I seem to remember Warwick signing a new contract with LIrish that went to pot.

If there's any one with any sense in the MB or IRFU they'll recognise Munster will win nothing with Hayes or Buckley playing.

I imagine Hagan's probably getting the same pressure to move to Munster as Cronin is to move to Leinster. Both players might prefer to stay in Connacht but the IRFU are the guys who pay the wages.

porterbelly · 21-01-2011 5:10pm

Hagan is going nowhere. He'll stay at Connacht.

Only way he'll go is if he's pushed to Munster by the IRFU but they're unlikley to offer him a central contract so therefore they aren't really in a postition to do that.

Amazotheamazing · 21-01-2011 5:21pm

porterbelly wrote: »

Hagan is going nowhere. He'll stay at Connacht.

Only way he'll go is if he's pushed to Munster by the IRFU but they're unlikley to offer him a central contract so therefore they aren't really in a postition to do that.

Tbh, I hope he does, we've (Munster) too many Leinster players already (Ronan, Dowling, J. Murphy, Hurley, Jones and seemingly Keatley), you could argue some didn't come through the Leinster Academy so they don't count but i think it's time Munster sorted out their own Academy.

porterbelly · 21-01-2011 5:24pm

If Hagan is pushed to Munster, like Cronin is being pushed to Leinster then everything the IRFU said about helping Connacht goes straight out the window and they're a crowd of spoofers. Hagan wants to stay, if they aren't offering him a central contract then they shouldn't have a say in his future. If they start to dictate the future of our players who are on provincial contracts then we will be in for a case of musical chairs for the future and it will become farcical.

21-01-2011 5:44pm

AboveandBeyond wrote: »

I am just wondering could we be seeing something like this from Munster next season?

1.Du Preez
2.Varley
3.Hagan
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Leamy
7.McCaw
8.Wallace
9.Stringer
10.O'Gara
11.Howlett
12.Nonu
13.Earls
14.Murphy
15.Felix Jones

The players in bold being new (or newish i.e last 2 seasons) injections into starting 15. How would everyone feel about a team like that?

If I was a diehard Munster supporter, I'd openly weep at that team.

Less than half the team coming through the academy, playing for years amongst each other. Promoting a Toulon-esque feeling within the side.

Horrible

Risteard · 21-01-2011 6:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If I was a diehard Munster supporter, I'd openly weep at that team.

Less than half the team coming through the academy, playing for years amongst each other. Promoting a Toulon-esque feeling within the side.

Horrible

1st thing that went through my head was 'Look at all the Leinster players in that team.'

I believe that we do have some talent in the academy, it's just that they're not being played.

Leinster have been ruthless in their promotion of younger players , Ryan, Ruddock, Kearney, Madigan, O'Malley. It's extremely frustrating.

Then when we do see a young player playing very well, he's dropped and not heard of again. (Nagle) Our back row is one area where we have players coming through. The likes of Tommy O'Donnell, Billy Holland, Peter o'Mahoney (though I think he's injured now.) Then there's the likes of Darragh Hurley, playing HC a few years ago, rarely given a meaningful opportunity. If it was known we'd be signing a TH we shiouldn't have bought du Preez IMO. Paddy Butler was a part of a good back row for the under 20s last year and from what I've heard from some people was regarded by them as the best of the three. But now he's looking at those two passing him out by playing ML and even HC.

theKramer · 21-01-2011 7:13pm

Paddy Butler is way too light at the moment tho. His profile on Munsterrugby has him at 96Kg, which is about 10Kg too light for a modern No. 8. Ryan and Ruddock were pretty much ready built for ML/HC even last year. Both of them are 103Kg.
Even Peter O'Mahoney, who is 22, is 98Kg. We defo seem to be late developers down in Munster in comparison to Leinster.

CouchSmart · 21-01-2011 7:15pm

Reddan, Ross, Fogarty etc. \t Leinster. It's professionalism, winning comes first.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 21-01-2011 7:17pm

theKramer wrote: »

Paddy Butler is way too light at the moment tho. His profile on Munsterrugby has him at 96Kg, which is about 10Kg too light for a modern No. 8. Ryan and Ruddock were pretty much ready built for ML/HC even last year. Both of them are 103Kg.
Even Peter O'Mahoney, who is 22, is 98Kg. We defo seem to be late developers down in Munster in comparison to Leinster.

Its probably a good thing in the long run really. I know a few people who destroyed themselves by putting on too much weight and completely lost any pace and skill.

I would take the stats on the Munsterrugby with a pinch of salt though, they had Danny Barnes as 5ft4 for ages.

theKramer · 21-01-2011 7:19pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I would take the stats on the Munsterrugby with a pinch of salt though, they had Danny Barnes as 5ft4 for ages.

True that

CiaranMT · 21-01-2011 7:29pm

Wouldn't pay an ounce of attention to what the Mrugby stats say, POM is definitely heavier than that.

phog · 21-01-2011 10:34pm

Munster A put Esher to the sword this evening, eventually running out winning 64 - 9. Nine tries, 8 conversions and one penalty. It was a decent enough game to watch on a bitterly cold night. Hard to know how good Munster were or how poor Esher were. Dineen and Barnes seemed to have the freedom to what they liked and cut them to pieces a few times. Scrum looked alright and our lineouts were superior. Have high hopes for TOD and Paddy Butler.

They opened with a try from Danny Barnes after just two minutes and ended the first half with the sixth, from Sean Scanlon two minutes into injury time.
In between there were tries from Ivan Dineen, Stephen Archer, Tommy O'Donnell and Dave Kilcoyne.

Esher's out-half Rob Kirby landed three penalties.

Munster were then held scoreless until the 56th minute when Simon Zebo scored wide on the left and there were further tries from Conor Murray and Troy Smith.

Munster: Sean Scanlon; Danny Barnes, Ivan Dineen, Troy Smith, Simon Zebo; Declan Cusack, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Sean Henry, Stephen Archer; Ian Nagle, Dave Foley; Billy Holland capt, Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler. Replacements: Duncan Casey, Peter Borlase, Dave O'Callaghan, Brian O'Hara, Conor Murray, JJ Hanrahan, Corey Hircock.

A few photos from the game here

thomond2006 · 21-01-2011 11:29pm

Nice result.

What was the attendance?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 21-01-2011 11:34pm

Munster are now finished their B&I cup group schedule. They are currently top of their group with a seven point lead.

That said Llanelli have two more games and Nottingham (14 points behind) have three more games so they could overhaul Munster

It is only top teams qualifying for knock out stages, right?

[Jackass] · 21-01-2011 11:38pm

AboveandBeyond wrote: »

I am just wondering could we be seeing something like this from Munster next season?

1.Du Preez
2.Varley
3.Hagan
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Leamy
7.McCaw
8.Wallace
9.Stringer
10.O'Gara
11.Howlett
12.Nonu
13.Earls
14.Murphy
15.Felix Jones

The players in bold being new (or newish i.e last 2 seasons) injections into starting 15. How would everyone feel about a team like that?

Hmmm, if Sexton and Heaslip are struggling to get contracts, you can be fairly sure Nonu and McCaw wont want to listen to what the IRFU have to say. Probably can only offer them a weeks worth of wages compared to what they would get in France.

I think we need to focus on retaining Irish talent and saving money by promoting youth. I think we also need to look at longer term deals for younger players (more than 2 or 3 years) and I think older players (30+) should be given no more than 1 years deals at a time. RO'G and O'Callaghan are a disastor with the contracts we've given them. One is firmly a back-up player (and ironicly his wage being a major hamper to the man in front of him who'll be earning less) and the other, based on current form, isn't even good enough for the world cup squad, never mind international starter!!

CouchSmart wrote: »

Reddan, Ross, Fogarty etc. \t Leinster. It's professionalism, winning comes first.

As of next season, Leinster will have three Munster players in the squad. Cronin, Ross and Reddan. All great players, but none of them crucial to Leinsters sucsess.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 21-01-2011 11:55pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Hmmm, if Sexton and Heaslip are struggling to get contracts, you can be fairly sure Nonu and McCaw wont want to listen to what the IRFU have to say. Probably can only offer them a weeks worth of wages compared to what they would get in France.

I think we need to focus on retaining Irish talent and saving money by promoting youth. I think we also need to look at longer term deals for younger players (more than 2 or 3 years) and I think older players (30+) should be given no more than 1 years deals at a time. RO'G and O'Callaghan are a disastor with the contracts we've given them. One is firmly a back-up player (and ironicly his wage being a major hamper to the man in front of him who'll be earning less) and the other, based on current form, isn't even good enough for the world cup squad, never mind international starter!!

As of next season, Leinster will have three Munster players in the squad. Cronin, Ross and Reddan. All great players, but none of them crucial to Leinsters sucsess.

You have no proof whatsoever of the part in bold, just speculation.

ROG is needed at international level as there is currently no backup to Sexton and Sexton is also still relatively unproved at the highest level.

DOC was offered a 3 year deal which will expire soon after he turn 35. Locks are still competitive at this age, Brad Thorn is 35 and Simon Shaw was a Lions test starter at ~37.

Cronin and Reddan as players may not be crucial to Leinster's success, but they play in positions that Leinster are/have been unable to produce from their academy.

Amazotheamazing · 22-01-2011 3:05am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Munster are now finished their B&I cup group schedule. They are currently top of their group with a seven point lead.

That said Llanelli have two more games and Nottingham (14 points behind) have three more games so they could overhaul Munster

It is only top teams qualifying for knock out stages, right?

Top two teams from each group qualify, there's quarter finals this year (last year went straight to semi-finals, iirc).

We also still have to play Bristol, the game was called off in December due to bad weather.

[Jackass] · 22-01-2011 6:11am

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

You have no proof whatsoever of the part in bold, just speculation.

ROG is needed at international level as there is currently no backup to Sexton and Sexton is also still relatively unproved at the highest level.

DOC was offered a 3 year deal which will expire soon after he turn 35. Locks are still competitive at this age, Brad Thorn is 35 and Simon Shaw was a Lions test starter at ~37.

Cronin and Reddan as players may not be crucial to Leinster's success, but they play in positions that Leinster are/have been unable to produce from their academy.

Actually, you'll find that the central contract system is predominantly based around caps, and yes, whatever Sexton gets, unless it's a massive save face deal, O'Gara will be on more than him and as it stands, about 75% of the out-half quota for wages has already been signed away to O'Gara. All the details have been listed on a Leinsterfans.com thread and if I was arsed I would dig out the link for you.

As for the locks, there are plenty of younger and better locks than DOC in this country, and he currently, as I said, is about 5th choice. But he will start based on contract, not form. Would you disagree with any of that?

On the final point. How did you think Jason Harris Wright did tonight? Very good I thought. Massively promising young Leinster lad getting plenty of game time. Sexton (the hooker, as you seem unaware) is chomping at the bit for senior game time now too. But not as good as the best hooker in Ireland at the moment, Richardt Strauss, who will be Irish qualified after the world cup. Cronin will be a great addition to Leinster, but do we need him? Absolutely not.

And scrum half, Boss has been great, and O'Donohue has plenty of young lads in the academy chasing after the 9 jersey too.

RuggieBear · 22-01-2011 7:41am

Jackass this is the munster team talk thread. Please do not post on this thraed again

phog · 22-01-2011 11:12am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nice result.

What was the attendance?

Attendance was poor and to make matters worse the game started 15 minutes early because of the frost, so I reckon there was two tries in the bag before the majority of the crowd got there.

Hanrahan got about 10 minutes and looked promising but as I said earlier, what's the real quality of the opposition.

Our 5 and 6 I think looked a lot lighter than theirs and their No4 was massive but that didn't stop TOD put him back in more than one tackle.

Risteard · 22-01-2011 12:12pm

phog wrote: »

Attendance was poor and to make matters worse the game started 15 minutes early because of the frost, so I reckon there was two tries in the bag before the majority of the crowd got there.

Hanrahan got about 10 minutes and looked promising but as I said earlier, what's the real quality of the opposition.

Our 5 and 6 I think looked a lot lighter than theirs and their No4 was massive but that didn't stop TOD put him back in more than one tackle.

He made a good break but just slipped after he was through. I wonder how many years it'll be before we see some of these players?

Also did anyone notice that the scrum seemed to get worse with Borlase on?

some_dose · 22-01-2011 1:36pm

Risteard wrote: »

I wonder how many years it'll be before we see some of these players?

Also did anyone notice that the scrum seemed to get worse with Borlase on?

If we get to see they players

Borlase is looking more and more like a bad bad mistake. A waste of money.

AboveandBeyond · 22-01-2011 1:42pm

some_dose wrote: »

If we get to see they players

Borlase is looking more and more like a bad bad mistake. A waste of money.

Anyone have an idea of what type of money hes on?

CouchSmart · 22-01-2011 6:42pm

Borlase just needs time, he was a good player in NZ. It takes time to adjust to playing up here, the game is played so differently. Clint Newland is struggling similarly but there has been a marked improvement over the last few weeks from him. As far as I know Borlase is a project player so he's here for 3 years, I think he'll do fine after some more time.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 22-01-2011 11:48pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Top two teams from each group qualify, there's quarter finals this year (last year went straight to semi-finals, iirc).

We also still have to play Bristol, the game was called off in December due to bad weather.

my mistake (on two fronts), you are right that last year was just semis.

I found a website with B&I cup group tables on friday evening and assumed that they hadn't updated it yet

Here is the actual tables
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/tables/8369048.stm

phog · 23-01-2011 3:48pm

Some highlights from the A game.

LuckyGent88 · 23-01-2011 4:56pm

So Brive away in Amlin quarters. Seems like a decent draw but will need serious improvement and quickly.

BCSG7 · 23-01-2011 9:01pm

Yea they will need to improve to beat brive and it will take a huge effort to win the cup overall. I wish mcgahon would start giving the younger lads a chance more regularly, the first team is ageing big time now and are not able to play the high tempo, off-loading game that leinster and the top french teams play.

BCSG7 · 24-01-2011 9:26pm

I hope your right, munster can't afford to carry any more props that can't scrummage. Until they sort the scrum out they will struggle to progress past the knock-out stages of the HC in the future.

PhatPiggins · 25-01-2011 12:19am

BCSG7 wrote: »

I hope your right, munster can't afford to carry any more props that can't scrummage. Until they sort the scrum out they will struggle to progress past the knock-out stages of the HC in the future.

Seeing as we have a total of one prop who can actually scrummage Borlase should feel right at home.

buck65 · 25-01-2011 9:04am

We actually have 3 loose head props that can scrummage

PhatPiggins · 25-01-2011 11:18am

buck65 wrote: »

We actually have 3 loose head props that can scrummage

I might have been a bit harsh as we can't really say how good Ryan/Hurley are untill we have a decent TH.

profitius · 25-01-2011 12:38pm

There was high hopes for Darragh Hurley a few years back. Himself and Cian Healy were being talked up as 2 exciting props that'll play for ireland. Since then Hurleys career has not taken off due to injury. The potential remains though. If he can stay clear of injuries and get a run of games I'm sure he'll come good. Likewise Dave Ryan has got some niggly injuries for the past year. Dave looks like a more promising scrummager than his brother Timmy.

PhatPiggins · 25-01-2011 1:10pm

profitius wrote: »

There was high hopes for Darragh Hurley a few years back. Himself and Cian Healy were being talked up as 2 exciting props that'll play for ireland. Since then Hurleys career has not taken off due to injury. The potential remains though. If he can stay clear of injuries and get a run of games I'm sure he'll come good. Likewise Dave Ryan has got some niggly injuries for the past year. Dave looks like a more promising scrummager than his brother Timmy.

Whats the word on Marcus Horan? Is he going to play again?

Risteard · 25-01-2011 1:18pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Whats the word on Marcus Horan? Is he going to play again?

On his way back form injury I think. I actually think I read a report that he's back training but after so long out and his age, and the other, younger options we have at LH, I don't think he'll reach the heights he did before his injury lay off IMO.

thomond2006 · 25-01-2011 1:28pm

Risteard wrote: »

On his way back form injury I think. I actually think I read a report that he's back training but after so long out and his age, and the other, younger options we have at LH, I don't think he'll reach the heights he did before his injury lay off IMO.

Personally I'd let him go at the end of the season if he's out of contract. Dave Ryan and Darragh Hurley have shown (when fit) that they do a good job and could develop into decent props.

Clareman · 25-01-2011 2:40pm

You can't let Marcus go, there'd be no-one in the squad from Clare then

durkadurka · 25-01-2011 3:08pm

I get the impression from my occasional visits to Clare that rugby is on the rise. I see a lot on munster shirts about the place anyhow.

Clareman · 25-01-2011 3:50pm

It is, very popular now, Scariff are doing great things at the moment. With Ennis, Kilrush and Shannon (Senan's) going strong it's only a matter of time before we get more Munster and Irish captains

It's alot easier for people to get a game now than it was before, I had to go to Limerick cause I didn't get on with a lot of people in Ennis, now I'd have options

profitius · 25-01-2011 3:58pm

Rugby in Munster has exploded in the last 10 years due to it being in the media, being more professional and Munster and Irelands success. I wasn't really interested in it years ago because I only remember it being on for a few weeks of the year (5 nations) and Ireland finishing bottom didn't exactly inspire people.

We should start to see the benefit for Munster in the next few years. That depends on Munster being able to take advantage of the growth of rugby in clubs. I'm sure there'll be more Clare, Kerry and Waterford players in the future.

Clareman · 25-01-2011 4:10pm

The upsurge in rugby tied in well with the professional era, some call it a bandwagon

buck65 · 25-01-2011 4:14pm

Clareman wrote: »

You can't let Marcus go, there'd be no-one in the squad from Clare then

Isn't Damien Varley from kilaloe?

Link http://www.clareherald.com/sports/rugby/2623-killaloes-damien-varley-to-start-for-munster-against-gloucester.html

profitius · 25-01-2011 5:34pm

Clareman wrote: »

The upsurge in rugby tied in well with the professional era, some call it a bandwagon

I hope more people jump on the bandwagon!

Cpt_Blackbeard · 25-01-2011 7:21pm

Clareman wrote: »

You can't let Marcus go, there'd be no-one in the squad from Clare then

He may be from Clare, but he learned his rugby in Limerick with Munchins

Even though Munchins in a whole lot of a 100m from the boarder...

Cpt_Blackbeard · 25-01-2011 7:23pm

buck65 wrote: »

Isn't Damien Varley from kilaloe?

Link http://www.clareherald.com/sports/rugby/2623-killaloes-damien-varley-to-start-for-munster-against-gloucester.html

Again he learned his rugby in Limerick at Munchins

Clareman · 25-01-2011 7:26pm

They might have gotten their schooling in Limerick but they got their breeding in Clare

Cpt_Blackbeard · 25-01-2011 7:42pm

Clareman wrote: »

They might have gotten their schooling in Limerick but they got their breeding in Clare

Next you're going to say the same about Keith Wood

durkadurka · 25-01-2011 9:01pm

He's from main st killaloe isn't he?

Clareman · 25-01-2011 10:19pm

Yup, as is Mr. Foley, the banner is the best..............

Even if it is just by the width of a river

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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