Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

21-01-2011 03:39PM

Dotsey wrote: »

What has Chavez done bad with Venezuela apart from standing up for the people and national interests before American profit??
Robert Mugabe was once knighted by the Queen whats your point?? Zimbabwe of part of the Non Aligned movement along with many countries and he wouldve met Raul Castro at summit meetings same way Obama is meeting with Chinas president this week. Doesnt make them friends

I'd like to add,
Nelson Mandela a man now greatly revered was also considered a terrorist, while i am not going to accuse him of murder, organisations allied to his ANC did commit many crimes. This cannot be disputed.

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 03:40PM

k_mac wrote: »

Between the PIRA and Sinn Fein?

Regardless of what people are led to believe, an exIRA member executing someone in cold blood has got nothing to do with Sinn Fein on any level. Doesnt say a lot about your intellect to suggest something that you clearly know nothing about. Yes, members of SF now were once members of the IRA same way the leader and former leader of the Labour party were members of OIRA. There's many more former IRA men who never joined SF on any level at any time as its completely different. Dont let your ignorance rule your thinking!

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 03:45PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I'd like to add,
Nelson Mandela a man now greatly revered was also considered a terrorist, while i am not going to accuse him of murder, organisations allied to his ANC did commit many crimes. This cannot be disputed.

Yes this cannot be disputed, but members of NATO and the UN have also commited many crimes. Does this make the UN HQ in New York a safe haven for terrorists? no and it would be nonsense to suggest this. No matter what people think of Castro's regime they should look into the US backed Batista regime before it. Castro initially wanted to maintain relations with the US but wouldnt allow US companies to profit off of Cuban backs, and thus business leaders urged JFK to invade Cuba and so led to a ridiculous blockade which exists to this day which causes unnecessary problems for Cuba's economy.

Tipp Man · 21-01-2011 03:46PM

Dotsey wrote: »

What has Chavez done bad with Venezuela apart from standing up for the people and national interests before American profit??
Robert Mugabe was once knighted by the Queen whats your point?? Zimbabwe of part of the Non Aligned movement along with many countries and he wouldve met Raul Castro at summit meetings same way Obama is meeting with Chinas president this week. Doesnt make them friends

Look you obviously see no harm in what these leaders have done to their countries and their countries people - that they are power obsessed dictators - Castro in power for over 50 years, Mugabe 30 and chavez doing everything he can to match them

But you are entitlied to your opinion and if you agree with the methods these leaders use to run their countries then that is your perogative

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 03:52PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Look you obviously see no harm in what these leaders have done to their countries and their countries people - that they are power obsessed dictators - Castro in power for over 50 years, Mugabe 30 and chavez doing everything he can to match them

But you are entitlied to your opinion and if you agree with the methods these leaders use to run their countries then that is your perogative

Castro was president for 32 years actually. Look at Cuba's neighbouring countries like Haiti, Jamiaca and Dominica and compare them to Cuba. Cubans are all well educated, well fed and well looked after for healthcare. The US blockade and sphere of influence has stopped them from ever maintaining trade levels with most countries.

LordSutch · 21-01-2011 03:56PM

IRcolm wrote: »

Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

IRcolm wrote: »

This is based on the assumption people have had similar experiences as I have. This is a genuine question, with the election imminent I'm weighing up my options and without thinking I wrote off Sinn Féin. I've never really considered voting for them and probably won't, but why is their a casual disregard of their status as a viable party to vote for.

And I don't want the first post after this to be "They're murdering Scum" and get a million thanks. (Which someone will definitely do now that I've written that).

This thread is supposed to be about a modern day Irish 'POLITICAL PARTY' but anybody taking a cursory look through the last eleven pages (or any other thread about SF) will see these words printed time & time again; Gerry McCabe, Troubles, Northern Bank, Killed, Kneecap, Prison, Columbia, Accused, IRA, Hardline, Policies, Collusion, 1916, Balaclava, Political, Adams, Sinn Fein, Gaol, Death, Murdering, IRA, 1981, shootings, Prison, Robberies, Six counties, IRA, Garda Gerry McCabe, Murdered, Bombs, IRA, Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, Political Party . . .

Now if I am voting for a political party to Govern my country, the last thing I want is a Thread full of unsavoury word associations, seriously folks, if we did a thread about any other political party in the modern day Republic, would it contain references to the above combination of unsavoury words? (ie Murder-Politics).

21-01-2011 03:58PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Castro was president for 32 years actually. Look at Cuba's neighbouring countries like Haiti, Jamiaca and Dominica and compare them to Cuba. Cubans are all well educated, well fed and well looked after for healthcare. The US blockade and sphere of influence has stopped them from ever maintaining trade levels with most countries.

he only nearly started WW3 you know

Tipp Man · 21-01-2011 03:58PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Castro was president for 32 years actually. Look at Cuba's neighbouring countries like Haiti, Jamiaca and Dominica and compare them to Cuba. Cubans are all well educated, well fed and well looked after for healthcare. The US blockade and sphere of influence has stopped them from ever maintaining trade levels with most countries.

Sorry - of course 32 years in a single party state doesn't make you a dictator at all

How come there are so many cubans willing to risk life and limb to get into the USA by any means possible if they are so well educated, fed and such good healthcare?? There are hundreds of thousand, if not millions of them that have fled. Why is that??

Why is Cuba only a 1 party state? Where is the Cuban people's freedom to choose their government and how they want to be governed??

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 04:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

he only nearly started WW3 you know

JFK had missiles in Turkey aimed at Russia first and after he tried and failed to invade Cuba, Castro appealed to the USSR for protection. And they set up missiles in Cuba the same way Kennedy had done it in Turkey. So if anything Kennedy nearly started WW3

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 04:03PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Sorry - of course 32 years in a single party state doesn't make you a dictator at all

How come there are so many cubans willing to risk life and limb to get into the USA by any means possible if they are so well educated, fed and such good healthcare?? There are hundreds of thousand, if not millions of them that have fled. Why is that??

Why is Cuba only a 1 party state? Where is the Cuban people's freedom to choose their government and how they want to be governed??

take this to another thread as its off topic for this thread and i'll educate you on the Cuban revelutionary war and how Cubans vote and how Castro has shaped modern day Cuba and what preceeded him in Cuba which led to his taking power.

Tipp Man · 21-01-2011 04:09PM

Dotsey wrote: »

take this to another thread as its off topic for this thread and i'll educate you on the Cuban revelutionary war and how Cubans vote and how Castro has shaped modern day Cuba and what preceeded him in Cuba which led to his taking power.

Will you educate me on how he has supressed the Cuban people for decades - denying them of their rights to elect government and to practice religion.

Will you educate me on why some of his own children had to flee the country in exile and why some of his close family relations are his biggest critics and completly condem his handling of the country

Just how close to Cuba would Gerry like to see Ireland?? How close are Gerry ideologies with Castros?? Would Gerry like to introduce maximum size of farms just as Castro did when he first got a whiff of power

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 04:14PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Will you educate me on how he has supressed the Cuban people for decades - denying them of their rights to elect government and to practice religion.

Will you educate me on why some of his own children had to flee the country in exile and why some of his close family relations are his biggest critics and completly condem his handling of the country

Just how close to Cuba would Gerry like to see Ireland?? How close are Gerry ideologies with Castros?? Would Gerry like to introduce maximum size of farms just as Castro did when he first got a whiff of power

I think educating you would be near impossible. Keep your blinkers on and look at things from one side rather than both sides. Your ignorance will consume you eventually.

Tipp Man · 21-01-2011 04:21PM

Dotsey wrote: »

I think educating you would be near impossible. Keep your blinkers on and look at things from one side rather than both sides. Your ignorance will consume you eventually.

So you can't refute anything that i say so you are just going to call me names and insult me. nice

southsiderosie · 21-01-2011 04:45PM

Dotsey wrote: »

I dont believe Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA

LOL.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think people are over-critical of them for having different policies for north and south. Stormont is a pseudo-parliament. Westminister tells them how much pocket money they're allowed to have so Sinn Fein/DUP have no choice but to implement cuts.

Given Ireland's current relationship with the IMF and ECB, maybe people should vote Sinn Fein since they have experience in setting policies under someone else's budget constraints.

LordSutch wrote: »

This thread is supposed to be about a modern day Irish 'POLITICAL PARTY' but anybody taking a cursory look through the last eleven pages (or any other thread about SF) will see these words printed time & time again; Gerry McCabe, Troubles, Northern Bank, Killed, Kneecap, Prison, Columbia, Accused, IRA, Hardline, Policies, Collusion, 1916, Balaclava, Political, Adams, Sinn Fein, Gaol, Death, Murdering, IRA, 1981, shootings, Prison, Robberies, Six counties, IRA, Garda Gerry McCabe, Murdered, Bombs, IRA, Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, Political Party . . .

Now if I am voting for a political party to Govern my country, the last thing I want is a Thread full of unsavoury word associations, seriously folks, if we did a thread about any other political party in the modern day Republic, would it contain references to the above combination of unsavoury words? (ie Murder-Politics).

No because FF, FG and Labour did not have active paramilitary arms until the recent past.

However, read any FF or Labour thread, and you are likely to see a shower of insults. Sinn Fein may be an extreme case, but they do not have a monopoly on being on the receiving end of vitriol.

MagicSean · 21-01-2011 05:23PM

Dotsey wrote: »

Regardless of what people are led to believe, an exIRA member executing someone in cold blood has got nothing to do with Sinn Fein on any level. Doesnt say a lot about your intellect to suggest something that you clearly know nothing about. Yes, members of SF now were once members of the IRA same way the leader and former leader of the Labour party were members of OIRA. There's many more former IRA men who never joined SF on any level at any time as its completely different. Dont let your ignorance rule your thinking!

My intellect is quite fine thank you. Those members of the IRa that joined SF. Where they responable for recruiting, training and arming the members who didn't or are they completely innocent. You can't release a wild dog and then expect to have no blame for the havok he causes. Please don't let your blind faith and naivety rule your thinking.

P. Breathnach · 21-01-2011 05:26PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

... No because FF, FG and Labour did not have active paramilitary arms until the recent past....

Care to rephrase that?

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 06:53PM

k_mac wrote: »

My intellect is quite fine thank you. Those members of the IRa that joined SF. Where they responable for recruiting, training and arming the members who didn't or are they completely innocent. You can't release a wild dog and then expect to have no blame for the havok he causes. Please don't let your blind faith and naivety rule your thinking.

The end justifies the means. Look at your Irish history and see why the IRA split and how and why the PIRA was formed, look at the conditions nationalists were living under then maybe you'll understand why people took up arms against the British establishment. Look at SF and the DUP today sitting together and try tell me thats not an achievment in that two polar opposites have come together and are peacefully in government together. Everything that happened happened for a reason and its always regrettable but it had to be done. The IRA was far from a wild dog, but with a ceasefire in place nearly 15 years and decommishing complete some people cant accept theyve no stick to beat SF with anymore so they keep dragging up the past. Times have changed grow up and accept that we've emerged from recent conflict on this island and relations between the nationalists and unionists are better than ever. As i said the end justifies the means!!

phantom_lord · 21-01-2011 06:55PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SF are an all Ireland party, thats a huge factor in deciding to vote for them or not.

Would you vote for FF if they were an all Ireland party?

Monty Burnz · 21-01-2011 06:57PM

Has anyone mentioned how Sinn Feiners tend to shout you down in debates, get conversations shut down and attempt to mislead and misrepresent facts? We had another example of it today with Mary Lou McDonald, and the thread on it here was locked and I was labelled a liar.

I presume I'll be getting apologies from those who did that?

*tumbleweed*

Yeah, thought so.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 21-01-2011 06:59PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Given Ireland's current relationship with the IMF and ECB, maybe people should vote Sinn Fein since they have experience in setting policies under someone else's budget constraints.

nicely put:D

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 07:04PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

So you can't refute anything that i say so you are just going to call me names and insult me. nice

I could refute most of it, but not in a few paragraphs so i'm not going to bother. Don't just listen to American propaganda about Cuba and their paranoia about Marxism, I've read and seen a hell of a lot about Cuba including been there. America seen Cuba as a 51st state and cant accept that a Cuban nationalist like Castro came in and stuck up for the Cubans and ran the country for the Cuban people and not for the rich Americans who used it for their own means and to service their own pockets. Big business influences politics in America, and America has always had an anti Castro mentality as a lot of wealthy Cubans who didnt like equality fled to Florida and influence politicians with their big donations and the politicians wants the big votes from Florida in elections so dont dare upset them.

niallers1 · 21-01-2011 07:05PM

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

They place massive emphasis on the 6 counties comprising Northern Ireland, whereas the vast majority of people in the rest of Ireland couldn't actually give too much of a fuck about it. That and they have known links with a terrorist organisation.

I disagree, I for one want the country re-united. It was a terrible error to part the country but it's never too late to right a wrong.

I've never voted for Sinn Fein by the way.

Wolfe Tone · 21-01-2011 07:06PM

phantom_lord wrote: »

Would you vote for FF if they were an all Ireland party?

Interesting you should mention that, I heard a while ago that FF where considering running candidates in the north.

Note I said it was a factor.

Hannibal · 21-01-2011 07:10PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Interesting you should mention that, I heard a while ago that FF where considering running candidates in the north.

Note I said it was a factor.

They were looking at joining up with the SDLP at one stage aswell

phantom_lord · 21-01-2011 07:13PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Interesting you should mention that, I heard a while ago that FF where considering running candidates in the north.

That's why I asked :pac:

LordSutch · 21-01-2011 07:18PM

niallers1 wrote: »

I disagree, I for one want the country re-united. It was a terrible error to part the country but it's never too late to right a wrong.

Pray how & why?

Surely its now in the hands of the people who actually live in Northern Ireland (GFA 1998), and if they choose to remain as part of the UK, then that's their call, and not ours or yours.

niallers1 wrote: »

I've never voted for Sinn Fein by the way.

Well done, keep it up.

Di0genes · 21-01-2011 07:30PM

Dotsey wrote: »

What has Chavez done bad with Venezuela apart from standing up for the people and national interests before American profit??

Just this week he restricted internet access to restrict criticism of his government, just the acts of a man "standing up" for his people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12046964

My objection to SF is both with their appalling economic policies and their indifference to the rule of law, and please stop citing FF, as if I'm okay with their corruption. Neither is acceptable, if my options are supposed to limited to corrupt cute whores and apologists for murderers those aren't the only options available to me.

niallers1 · 21-01-2011 07:33PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Pray how & why?

Surely its now in the hands of the people who live their in NI (GFA 1998), and if they chose to remain as part of the UK, then that's their call, and not yours.

Well done, keep it up.

Thank you

It's probably easier for people to come out of the closet or say that they listen to Daniel O'Donnell than say they'd vote for Sinn Fein.

You are correct. It's absolutely in the hands of the people entitled to vote in the north to choose whether they remain part of the UK. Hopefully they will choose to re-unite. Ireland will be a stronger and more confident country in my opinion when we are re-united.

Hannibal · 22-01-2011 01:05AM

Di0genes wrote: »

Just this week he restricted internet access to restrict criticism of his government, just the acts of a man "standing up" for his people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12046964

Its not exactly him restricting criticism of his government if you read the article and other articles about it properly. I personally have always believed the internet should have some sort of censorship the question is always how far do you go with it and thats the difficult part. Chavez's restrictions mention shielding messages promoting drug use, prostitution and crime. If a daily newspaper isn't allowed print certain things then why should be able to freely access it on the web? The internet is something that has to be looked at to protect the law of the land and as I said its difficult. But like Chavez we've to look at drug use, prostitution, crime, porn etc.. to stop this medium being abused for the wrong reasons.

Monty Burnz · 22-01-2011 01:27AM

Dotsey wrote: »

the murderer of Jim Curran has absolutely nothing to do with Sinn Fein, he was a member if the PIRA at one stage. There's a big difference there

Curran was a member of the IRA? This is certainly news to me...can you prove it? It was never mentioned in the press during the trial or at the time of his murder.

The guy who murdered him on the other hand, he was a former PIRA member and current Sinn Fein election worker when he executed an innocent man who objected to people taking protection money from drug dealers.

Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

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