Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

bonerjams03

This is based on the assumption people have had similar experiences as I have. This is a genuine question, with the election imminent I'm weighing up my options and without thinking I wrote off Sinn Féin. I've never really considered voting for them and probably won't, but why is their a casual disregard of their status as a viable party to vote for.

And I don't want the first post after this to be "They're murdering Scum" and get a million thanks. (Which someone will definitely do now that I've written that).

Okay, so we have Adams who vehemently denies leading the IRA when it's plain he had more than any old casual involvement. But Fiann Fáil are a party built on violence, and the War was won by tactics similar to that employed by the IRA of modern times, with 1916 having less of a mandate. (I'd presume).

I am not advocating this, or saying I supported it. My point is, is there something beyond the paramilitary history that warrants the sneer at the 'Sinners'? Especially now that there is a vacuum in Irish politics for a credible alternative to the main parties? If I'm honest I wouldn't be too up to speed with any SF policies, but is there reason to believe they may perform well in this election if people begin to look at them in a different light, as a political part with political policies?

Dr. Baltar

I'm also curious about this.

I've never been old enough to vote in a general election before, but I've always had an interest in politics. I am still weighing up who to vote for myself, but I would never consider writing of Sinn Féin immediately just because of past links to the IRA. After all, didn't both Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have links to the IRA in the past also?

I don't understand how we can set one standard for one party and not the other.

The reason why I would be dubious about Sinn Féin is their economic policies. I believe in a conservative economy and Sinn Féin is the opposite of that. I can understand people who would write them off instantly because of their left-wing affiliations, but once again, I do not understand their past being a reason....

mcwhirter

If sinn fein get in then forget about ireland doing business with UK

jeepers101

I don't immediately write them off and I would probably vote for them if they gave me a reason to. I always question candidates when they're doing the rounds and have consistently met Sinn Féiners who really haven't a clue.

jeepers101

mcwhirter wrote: »

If sinn fein get in then forget about ireland doing business with UK

Bloody Nipples

They place massive emphasis on the 6 counties comprising Northern Ireland, whereas the vast majority of people in the rest of Ireland couldn't actually give too much of a fuck about it. That and they have known links with a terrorist organisation.

Wolfe Tone

They already do lots of business with the UK, some would say too much.


People disregard them because of their past actions, while they ignore the actions of other political parties. The media smear against them for decades has made people do that.

paky

people didnt vote for them in the past because they've only become a serious party in the last 12-13 years. abstentionist policies dont appeal to the vast majority of people. most people want to get on with their lives. sinn fein are evolving very fast and are now becoming a serious alternative to the traditionalist parties. i believe with a party like sinn fein in governemnt we can witness real change. the sort of change that was guaranteed by the proclamation of 1916. sinn fein has a solid leadership, probably the least corrupt of them all. im hoping to see sinn fein in governemnt this time round. they're a revolutionary party that will bring real change, the kind of change ireland needs today

LordSutch

IRcolm wrote: »

And I don't want the first post after this to be "They're murdering Scum" and get a million thanks. (Which someone will definitely do now that I've written that).

Okay, so we have Adams who vehemently denies leading the IRA when it's plain he had more than any old casual involvement.

Well there you go . . . . .

The wounds are still raw in many peoples minds & hearts, there may not be the 'whiff of sulphur' anymore, but there are still the memories which are hard to forget, plus the fact the SF's image down here is one of a Northern based IRA leadership - NO Thanks.

Labour & Fine Gael won't touch them anyway, for fear of freightening away their own voters.

OhNoYouDidn't

mcwhirter wrote: »

If sinn fein get in then forget about ireland doing business with UK

This is exactly the half baked nonsense the OP is talking about.

zig

mcwhirter wrote: »

If sinn fein get in then forget about ireland doing business with UK

more scare mongering, elaborate please.

OhNoYouDidn't

To answer the question, Irish people give out about the quality of politician and lethargy and arrogance of the political elite yet are suspicious of anything or anyone that might give it an auld shake

Cake. Eat. It. Too.

lugha

Sinn Fein have broadly occupy the same place on the political spectrum as the likes of Joe Higgins or Richard Boyd-Barrett. And while a lot of people would consider these guys economics to be loopy, I believe they are widely respected, Higgins in particular, as being genuinely intent on shaping the world for the better.
SF don’t get the same respect because of their past. And it isn’t sensible to compare them with what are now fully constitutional parties. That part of the past of FF and FG in ancient. SF still have their “war veterans” at the forefront of the leadership. Until they go, SF will never be widely accepted.

And even then, I don’t think they would make any greater inroads than any other socialist party. Ireland doesn’t do left. Any politicians who started off over there and who went on to be successful (Gilmore, Rabbitte etc.) had to scurry towards the centre. But then, them was the old rules. The whole political order might get a shake up in March.

paky

LordSutch wrote: »

Well there you go . . . . .

The wounds are still raw in many peoples minds & hearts, there may not be the 'whiff of sulphur' anymore, but there are still the memories which are hard to forget, plus the fact the SF's image down here is one of a Northern based IRA leadership - NO Thanks.

Labour & Fine Gael won't touch them anyway :-)

well im sure if us irish can get over the countless atrocities the british carried out on us then im sure a few unionists can too. irish people have shown that they are able to forgive by hosting england at croke park. surely the unionists can return the gesture

LordSutch

paky wrote: »

well im sure if us irish can get over the countless atrocities the british carried out on us then im sure a few unionists can too. irish people have shown that they are able to forgive by hosting england at croke park. surely the unionists can return the gesture

Here we go . . . .

The disregard of SF is because of their past & their policies, no amount of blaming 'The British' &/or 'Unionists' will get Sinn Fein into government down here. Not too many Unionists down here you know, so its Nationalists in the South that don't vote for Sinn Fein in any great numbers, and I expect that trend to continue.

flazio

I can only say that at the last General election, that Sinn Fein were pushing for the early release of the Garda Detective Jerry McCabe murderers as political prisoners. I felt at the time I could not vote for a party that supported people who kill defenders of our peace for whatever reason.
These days I will read whatever the local candidate has to promise for my area and if I think they can achieve it, while they would never get my No. 1 i may bump them up the list.

KeithAFC

I would never vote for them in this election if i wanted to because of Bloody Friday and Enniskillen. I could not shame their names by doing so.

OhNoYouDidn't

LordSutch wrote: »

Well there you go . . . . .

The wounds are still raw in many peoples minds & hearts, there may not be the 'whiff of sulphur' anymore, but there are still the memories which are hard to forget, plus the fact the SF's image down here is one of a Northern based IRA leadership - NO Thanks.

Will be interesting to see if the smell of cordite matters to the voters who might be willing to hold their noses to destroy the economic terrorists.

LordSutch wrote: »

Labour & Fine Gael won't touch them anyway, for fear of freightening away their own voters.

FG won't touch them because they are chalk and cheese - to be fair SF wouldn't touch the other way.

Labour is a more interesting proposition. I think it comes down to the stickie factor. 25 years ago they were shooting at each other. Remember Harris was a hickory dick too, and while his politics are for sale, he has kept that visceral hatred of the Provo's, which is shared by a lot of his former comrades.

OhNoYouDidn't

LordSutch wrote: »

Here we go . . . .

The disregard of SF is because of their past, no amount of blaming 'The British' and/or 'Unionists' will get Sinn Fein into government down here.

Horse. Cart.

I think you are underestimating them and the potential for rural FF barstool republican's to give them a tick as well as their core urban base.

I think there is 8-10 seats there for them if they play it right.

paky

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would never vote for them in this election if i wanted to because of Bloody Friday and Enniskillen. I could not shame their names by doing so.

worken late tonight keith?

zig

I find it comical that people refer to Sinn Feins "lunatic" economic policies (hasnt been said in this thread yet but im sure it will be), yet are willing to go along with the herd and vote for the likes of FG or Labour who are pretty much exactly the same as Fianna Fail. Sinn Fein imo offer something different, they offer a potential change in the way politics work here. Granted they are a bit socialist economically but if they were given power they would be forced to be a bit more central making them the ideal 'left' party.

Hannibal

mcwhirter wrote: »

If sinn fein get in then forget about ireland doing business with UK

I think their negotiating with the British since the early 90's disproves this. Participation in the Stormont assembly etc.. People are ignorant of SF and cant be bothered finding out the facts. FG's policies are just as or even more loopy, FG will do terminal damage to this country beyond repair.

zig

flazio wrote: »

I can only say that at the last General election, that Sinn Fein were pushing for the early release of the Garda Detective Jerry McCabe murderers as political prisoners. I felt at the time I could not vote for a party that supported people who kill defenders of our peace for whatever reason.
These days I will read whatever the local candidate has to promise for my area and if I think they can achieve it, while they would never get my No. 1 i may bump them up the list.

Can I ask you a favour, will you please vote for whatever party you think is best for both your area, but more importantly the country. Leave the local stuff to councillors.
Not trying to be smart , just trying to remind people whenever I get the chance.

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would never vote for them in this election if i wanted to because of Bloody Friday and Enniskillen. I could not shame their names by doing so.

you know i think their tally men had factored in that you might not be voting for them anyway keith , but its good you are taking a keen interest in the election down here , who knows by the time next one comes around you might be voting in it .

Monty Burnz

I like the notion that they would default on the banks debts, but the rest of their economic policies would make Chairman Mao weep. On top of that they've proved in NI that they are no different to any other party with regard to living it up on the public purse.

(and there's the IRA stuff too)

Hannibal

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I like the notion that they would default on the banks debts, but the rest of their economic policies would make Chairman Mao weep. On top of that they've proved in NI that they are no different to any other party with regard to living it up on the public purse.

In the north they dont have control over their budget, another nonsense post

whywonder

My biggest issue with SF is, currently, their economic policies. I haven't been a wholehearted fan of any FF/FG policies either, but the SF economic agenda really takes the biscuit, IMO. They don't really seem to have the barest grasp on how the Irish economy works- socialist leanings or no, in order to succeed in government they would at least need to be competent to perform within a capitalist economy and I have seen no indication of that from them in the last decade.

And then to the TDs that are currently representing SF in the Dail- I wouldn't trust a single one of them to balance a chequebook, never mind run the country. If SF do manage to swing a position in government, I'll be on the picketline protesting that move- and I'll make no apologies for it, either.

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

you know i think their tally men had factored in that you might not be voting for them anyway keith , but its good you are taking a keen interest in the election down here , who knows by the time next one comes around you might be voting in it .

If i was a republican, why would i want to vote for the biggest bullsh*tter this Island has seen in terms of politics? Gerry Adams is a complete liar and what most people should be looking for in politics with a leader is some one who is honest and has credibility. All Gerry Adams does best is spit on the faces of the people who fell in the republican side during the conflict and spits in the face of people who were proud to be in the IRA.

Forget his policies, start with the man and the man is a liar and a bullsh*tter.

Its bad enough we have dodgy dealings with banks and developers now some people want us to take yet another step backward and have dodgy dealings with political wings of terrorist organisations

What an electorate

Monty Burnz

Dotsey wrote: »

In the north they dont have control over their budget, another nonsense post

So anyone who disagrees with Shinner propaganda is talking nonsense? I suppose I'd better keep my mouth shut or a volunteer will be around to see to my knees...

melekalikimaka

gerry adams is about a likeable as saddam

Jim236

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

sink

I don't vote for Sinn Fein because I believe in free markets. Regardless of the current circumstances of the global economy, Sinn Feins socialist economic policies amount to throwing out the baby with the bat water. They would cripple business with taxes and labour regulations destroying jobs and the economy. The way to prosperity is to promote and strengthen the SME's not to destroy them.

PenelopeT

Well, the reason I'd disregard them is because of the way the local SF politicians come across. They're also always in the right, constantly critisize all round them and yet never really bring anything to the table. Can you think of a policy of theirs off-hand(bar the united Ireland)? Not many people can. I'm sure they're grand but they don't really *do* much for people to see. Look at Gerry Adams for instance- running in Louth when he hasn't actually done much for the constituency. From what i can see, they're just full of hot air and appear to be difficult to work with. I'll remind you of a few weeks ago when Gilmore ruled out a coalition with SF and the party all of a sudden saw this as a major personal attack on them.

Jim236

sink wrote: »

I don't vote for Sinn Fein because I believe in free markets. Regardless of the current circumstances of the global economy, Sinn Feins socialist economic policies amount to throwing out the baby with the bat water. They would cripple business with taxes and labour regulations destroying jobs and the economy. The way to prosperity is to promote and strengthen the SME's not to destroy them.

It was Sinn Féin argueing that we should use the pension reserve fund as a stimulus to the economy. Fianna Fáil has since given this money to the banks.

'nuf said.

sink

Jim236 wrote: »

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

It's simple Sinn Feins policies will force businesses to close no question about it. Closing businesses = lost jobs = even worse economy.

lugha

Jim236 wrote: »

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

Do you think their "no-cuts" approach to our current problems are sensible?

Monty Burnz

Jim236 wrote: »

It was Sinn Féin argueing that we should use the pension reserve fund as a stimulus to the economy. Fianna Fáil has since given this money to the banks.

'nuf said.

To be fair, Fianna Failure could make Zanu PF look competent.

Wolfe Tone

melekalikimaka wrote: »

gerry adams is about a likeable as saddam

Have you ever met the man? He is very likable, even people like Blair have said so.

Jim236

sink wrote: »

It's simple Sinn Feins policies will force businesses to close no question about it. Closing businesses = lost jobs = even worse economy.

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Jim236

lugha wrote: »

Do you think their "no-cuts" approach to our current problems are sensible?

No I don't, but at the same time I disagree that we need to reduce the deficit in the timeline proposed by Fianna Fáil and supported by Fine Gael and Labour. FF's policy is doing more damage than good, and we should be aiming to reduce the deficit over a longer period such as 6 or 7 years.

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Have you ever met the man? He is very likable, even people like Blair have said so.

Tony Blair, lead the UK into 2 wars in like 10 years.

Monty Burnz

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Yeah, what we need to do is tax ourselves to wealth and spend a fortune on the public service. Public services the world over are renowned for their efficient use of resources. Eventually we could nationalise food production and all essential goods and services could be produced by the state and we will have full employment. It worked in East Germany and it can work here.

Monty Burnz

Jim236 wrote: »

No I don't, but at the same time I disagree that we need to reduce the deficit in the timeline proposed by Fianna Fáil and supported by Fine Gael and Labour. FF's policy is doing more damage than good, and we should be aiming to reduce the deficit over a longer period such as 6 or 7 years.

So our national debt balloons even bigger, and is an even bigger drag on government finances as we pay more and more interest?

PeterIanStaker

SF are an asset to FF/Independent newspapers in the coming election, because they're a convenient bogeyman for the likes of that ex-Stickie turned Bertie cheerleader Harris, and that harpy Dudley-Edwards to rabbit on about. :rolleyes:

danbohan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Tony Blair, lead the UK into 2 wars in like 10 years.

i thought you liked wars keith ? that not why you like firing canon at fenians and wearing big drums ?

whywonder

At this junction, I think it might be fair to point out that 90% of Irish politicians are talentless hacks and their policies are all pretty rubbish.

That said, the propping up of the banking system remains necessary because of the amount of money/property/shares/business Irish banks continue to hold from foreign banks, etc. If we let them fall, we're passing the disaster onto other countries- and that certainly wouldn't be forgotten. It is not in our best interest.

Gerry Adams could be saint; he might help old ladies cross the road and be the first to volunteer to visit the elderly. But, as other posters have mentioned, he is a liar. He has been proven, time and again, to be a liar. And I have the utmost respect for the historical value and worth of the SF party- but I believe that their current representatives are not worthy of the name. They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

sink

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Sinn Feins economic policies amount to creating a bunch of new semi-state companies and will tax existing businesses to fund them. There is a reason privatization of public companies has been the trend over the last half century, public companies are bloated and inefficient and can't compete on costs and innovation with the private sector. Sinn Fein believe that the way to create new jobs is for the government to employ more people. The only way to create sustainable jobs and grow the economy is to encourage new private enterprise.

danbohan

whywonder wrote: »

At this junction, I think it might be fair to point out that 90% of Irish politicians are talentless hacks and their policies are all pretty rubbish.

That said, the propping up of the banking system remains necessary because of the amount of money/property/shares/business Irish banks continue to hold from foreign banks, etc. If we let them fall, we're passing the disaster onto other countries- and that certainly wouldn't be forgotten. It is not in our best interest.

Gerry Adams could be saint; he might help old ladies cross the road and be the first to volunteer to visit the elderly. But, as other posters have mentioned, he is a liar. He has been proven, time and again, to be a liar. And I have the utmost respect for the historical value and worth of the SF party- but I believe that their current representatives are not worthy of the name. They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

who are you referring too ?

KeithAFC

danbohan wrote: »

i thought you liked wars keith ? that not why you like firing canon at fenians and wearing big drums ?

Don't be silly. Only great victories. Tony Blair is a failure.

southsiderosie

PenelopeT wrote: »

Well, the reason I'd disregard them is because of the way the local SF politicians come across. They're also always in the right, constantly critisize all round them and yet never really bring anything to the table. Can you think of a policy of theirs off-hand(bar the united Ireland)? Not many people can. I'm sure they're grand but they don't really *do* much for people to see. Look at Gerry Adams for instance- running in Louth when he hasn't actually done much for the constituency. From what i can see, they're just full of hot air and appear to be difficult to work with. I'll remind you of a few weeks ago when Gilmore ruled out a coalition with SF and the party all of a sudden saw this as a major personal attack on them.

That's interesting because my impression of SF is the exact opposite: even people who disagree strongly with their policies say they are very good with constituent services. SF is deeply rooted in grassroots organizing, and there is a strong Republican ethos of active citizenship. Personally, I have never had anything but positive interactions with them, both North and South.

However, in the South they have two key problems: they don't have a deep "bench" of potential candidates compared to the other parties (which negates their grassroots organizing skills), and despite their skill at a local level, the only national-level policy that they have real experience debating both internally and externally is the national question. If politics is about striking a balance between guns and butter, arguably 90% of SF's energy historically has focused on guns. However, the most pressing issue in the South is butter...or what little of it that hasn't melted away anyhow. And they are really going to have to get serious about economic issues in the North as well, especially given their reliance on a cash-strapped Whitehall.