Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:18PM

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

sink · 20-01-2011 08:18PM

I don't vote for Sinn Fein because I believe in free markets. Regardless of the current circumstances of the global economy, Sinn Feins socialist economic policies amount to throwing out the baby with the bat water. They would cripple business with taxes and labour regulations destroying jobs and the economy. The way to prosperity is to promote and strengthen the SME's not to destroy them.

PenelopeT · 20-01-2011 08:19PM

Well, the reason I'd disregard them is because of the way the local SF politicians come across. They're also always in the right, constantly critisize all round them and yet never really bring anything to the table. Can you think of a policy of theirs off-hand(bar the united Ireland)? Not many people can. I'm sure they're grand but they don't really *do* much for people to see. Look at Gerry Adams for instance- running in Louth when he hasn't actually done much for the constituency. From what i can see, they're just full of hot air and appear to be difficult to work with. I'll remind you of a few weeks ago when Gilmore ruled out a coalition with SF and the party all of a sudden saw this as a major personal attack on them.

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:20PM

sink wrote: »

I don't vote for Sinn Fein because I believe in free markets. Regardless of the current circumstances of the global economy, Sinn Feins socialist economic policies amount to throwing out the baby with the bat water. They would cripple business with taxes and labour regulations destroying jobs and the economy. The way to prosperity is to promote and strengthen the SME's not to destroy them.

It was Sinn Féin argueing that we should use the pension reserve fund as a stimulus to the economy. Fianna Fáil has since given this money to the banks.

'nuf said.

sink · 20-01-2011 08:22PM

Jim236 wrote: »

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

It's simple Sinn Feins policies will force businesses to close no question about it. Closing businesses = lost jobs = even worse economy.

lugha · 20-01-2011 08:22PM

Jim236 wrote: »

Someone touched on it in another post, but before people start harping on about how destructive Sinn Féin's economic policies would be on the country, just take a step back and look where we are now thanks to Fianna Fáil and their policies, which by and large are supported by Fine Gael and to some extent Labour.

Do you think their "no-cuts" approach to our current problems are sensible?

Monty Burnz · 20-01-2011 08:22PM

Jim236 wrote: »

It was Sinn Féin argueing that we should use the pension reserve fund as a stimulus to the economy. Fianna Fáil has since given this money to the banks.

'nuf said.

To be fair, Fianna Failure could make Zanu PF look competent.

Wolfe Tone · 20-01-2011 08:23PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

gerry adams is about a likeable as saddam

Have you ever met the man? He is very likable, even people like Blair have said so.

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:24PM

sink wrote: »

It's simple Sinn Feins policies will force businesses to close no question about it. Closing businesses = lost jobs = even worse economy.

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:26PM

lugha wrote: »

Do you think their "no-cuts" approach to our current problems are sensible?

No I don't, but at the same time I disagree that we need to reduce the deficit in the timeline proposed by Fianna Fáil and supported by Fine Gael and Labour. FF's policy is doing more damage than good, and we should be aiming to reduce the deficit over a longer period such as 6 or 7 years.

KeithAFC · 20-01-2011 08:26PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Have you ever met the man? He is very likable, even people like Blair have said so.

Tony Blair, lead the UK into 2 wars in like 10 years.

Monty Burnz · 20-01-2011 08:27PM

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Yeah, what we need to do is tax ourselves to wealth and spend a fortune on the public service. Public services the world over are renowned for their efficient use of resources. Eventually we could nationalise food production and all essential goods and services could be produced by the state and we will have full employment. It worked in East Germany and it can work here.

Monty Burnz · 20-01-2011 08:28PM

Jim236 wrote: »

No I don't, but at the same time I disagree that we need to reduce the deficit in the timeline proposed by Fianna Fáil and supported by Fine Gael and Labour. FF's policy is doing more damage than good, and we should be aiming to reduce the deficit over a longer period such as 6 or 7 years.

So our national debt balloons even bigger, and is an even bigger drag on government finances as we pay more and more interest?

PeterIanStaker · 20-01-2011 08:29PM

SF are an asset to FF/Independent newspapers in the coming election, because they're a convenient bogeyman for the likes of that ex-Stickie turned Bertie cheerleader Harris, and that harpy Dudley-Edwards to rabbit on about. :rolleyes:

danbohan · 20-01-2011 08:30PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Tony Blair, lead the UK into 2 wars in like 10 years.

i thought you liked wars keith ? that not why you like firing canon at fenians and wearing big drums ?

whywonder · 20-01-2011 08:30PM

At this junction, I think it might be fair to point out that 90% of Irish politicians are talentless hacks and their policies are all pretty rubbish.

That said, the propping up of the banking system remains necessary because of the amount of money/property/shares/business Irish banks continue to hold from foreign banks, etc. If we let them fall, we're passing the disaster onto other countries- and that certainly wouldn't be forgotten. It is not in our best interest.

Gerry Adams could be saint; he might help old ladies cross the road and be the first to volunteer to visit the elderly. But, as other posters have mentioned, he is a liar. He has been proven, time and again, to be a liar. And I have the utmost respect for the historical value and worth of the SF party- but I believe that their current representatives are not worthy of the name. They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

sink · 20-01-2011 08:32PM

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm not saying Sinn Féin are the most pro-business party out there, but Fine Gael's policy of privatising whatevers left of the family silver is hardly gonna do wonders for jobs is it? And their whole jobs plan was based around using the pension reserve fund which is now gone, so I wouldn't be too hopeful about FG saving jobs.

Sinn Feins economic policies amount to creating a bunch of new semi-state companies and will tax existing businesses to fund them. There is a reason privatization of public companies has been the trend over the last half century, public companies are bloated and inefficient and can't compete on costs and innovation with the private sector. Sinn Fein believe that the way to create new jobs is for the government to employ more people. The only way to create sustainable jobs and grow the economy is to encourage new private enterprise.

danbohan · 20-01-2011 08:33PM

whywonder wrote: »

At this junction, I think it might be fair to point out that 90% of Irish politicians are talentless hacks and their policies are all pretty rubbish.

That said, the propping up of the banking system remains necessary because of the amount of money/property/shares/business Irish banks continue to hold from foreign banks, etc. If we let them fall, we're passing the disaster onto other countries- and that certainly wouldn't be forgotten. It is not in our best interest.

Gerry Adams could be saint; he might help old ladies cross the road and be the first to volunteer to visit the elderly. But, as other posters have mentioned, he is a liar. He has been proven, time and again, to be a liar. And I have the utmost respect for the historical value and worth of the SF party- but I believe that their current representatives are not worthy of the name. They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

who are you referring too ?

KeithAFC · 20-01-2011 08:33PM

danbohan wrote: »

i thought you liked wars keith ? that not why you like firing canon at fenians and wearing big drums ?

Don't be silly. Only great victories. Tony Blair is a failure.

southsiderosie · 20-01-2011 08:35PM

PenelopeT wrote: »

Well, the reason I'd disregard them is because of the way the local SF politicians come across. They're also always in the right, constantly critisize all round them and yet never really bring anything to the table. Can you think of a policy of theirs off-hand(bar the united Ireland)? Not many people can. I'm sure they're grand but they don't really *do* much for people to see. Look at Gerry Adams for instance- running in Louth when he hasn't actually done much for the constituency. From what i can see, they're just full of hot air and appear to be difficult to work with. I'll remind you of a few weeks ago when Gilmore ruled out a coalition with SF and the party all of a sudden saw this as a major personal attack on them.

That's interesting because my impression of SF is the exact opposite: even people who disagree strongly with their policies say they are very good with constituent services. SF is deeply rooted in grassroots organizing, and there is a strong Republican ethos of active citizenship. Personally, I have never had anything but positive interactions with them, both North and South.

However, in the South they have two key problems: they don't have a deep "bench" of potential candidates compared to the other parties (which negates their grassroots organizing skills), and despite their skill at a local level, the only national-level policy that they have real experience debating both internally and externally is the national question. If politics is about striking a balance between guns and butter, arguably 90% of SF's energy historically has focused on guns. However, the most pressing issue in the South is butter...or what little of it that hasn't melted away anyhow. And they are really going to have to get serious about economic issues in the North as well, especially given their reliance on a cash-strapped Whitehall.

danbohan · 20-01-2011 08:35PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't be silly. Only great victories. Tony Blair is a failure.[/QUOTE

you sound more and more like a liverpool supporter keith , living for the past , unhappy in the present , and dreading the future

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:37PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yeah, what we need to do is tax ourselves to wealth and spend a fortune on the public service. Public services the world over are renowned for their efficient use of resources. Eventually we could nationalise food production and all essential goods and services could be produced by the state and we will have full employment. It worked in East Germany and it can work here.

lol Nice use of hyperbole there.

Without even mentioning the eircom disaster, its a well known fact that private companies have no social obligation, and should companies such as Iarnród Éireann, Dublin Bus, and ESB be privatised there will be areas in Ireland that won't be served simply because they're not profitable. So we're not just talking about jobs here, we're also talking about service.

So private competition can be good and can actually lead to an improvement in service as we've seen with Aer Lingus. But not all industries are the same and for some there has to be a social obligation.

Aside from that, whatever money Fine Gael gets from selling off the semi-states, its only a once off gain. At least now if the semi-states are profitable, the government gets a dividend every year from those companies. So IMO Fine Gael would do a lot better to be focusing on reviewing all semi-states with a view to making them more profitable, and that will secure the long-term financial gains from them.

Whereas if they just sell them off, it could do more damage than good and we could see another eircom.

RDM_83 again · 20-01-2011 08:39PM

whywonder wrote: »

But, as other posters have mentioned, he is a liar. He has been proven, time and again, to be a liar. And I have the utmost respect for the historical value and worth of the SF party- but I believe that their current representatives are not worthy of the name. They certainly don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

I don't remember Gerry Adams ever being proven to be a liar? Which representatives of SF are you talking about that you respect? the 1916 era ones? Why?

I think SF will poll much better as the many of the non-internet, life-long FF, older men with a "traditional" republican/nationalist mindset may transfer to them having no other option (not labour certainly not greens or FG).

That said they need better candidates around the country if their going to get my 1st preference, and also to dump Mary-Lou

KeithAFC · 20-01-2011 08:41PM

danbohan wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

Don't be silly. Only great victories. Tony Blair is a failure.[/QUOTE

you sound more and more like a liverpool supporter keith , living for the past , unhappy in the present , and dreading the future

My today is your future.

Anyway, i don't see Sinn Fein doing as well as some people think.

Jim236 · 20-01-2011 08:41PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't remember Gerry Adams ever being proven to be a liar?

I'd be a supporter of Sinn Féin and I don't believe Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA, which is what I assume whywonder is referring to. I don't know why he doesn't just admit it like Martin McGuinness, I'm sure even those who resent him would have a lot more respect for him for being honest.

But trying to go on as if he was never a member of the IRA is just insulting the intelligence of the Irish people.

southsiderosie · 20-01-2011 08:44PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

That said they need better candidates around the country if their going to get my 1st preference, and also to dump Mary-Lou

What's the deal with her? She couldn't hold her seat, she gets reamed in the press, yet she seems like the go-to #2 person in the party.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 20-01-2011 08:53PM

Jim236 wrote: »

I'd be a supporter of Sinn Féin and I don't believe Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA, which is what I assume whywonder is referring to. I don't know why he doesn't just admit it like Martin McGuinness, I'm sure even those who resent him would have a lot more respect for him for being honest.

But trying to go on as if he was never a member of the IRA is just insulting the intelligence of the Irish people.

He's lied about it for too long. It would be like clinton x1000 and he only dicked an intern.

I think he was a bit of a pseudo-member IE gave orders but never took part in activities hands on.Dolores Price mentions in ''voices from the grave'' that we would never travel in a car with weapons so that his membership would be deniable. Though that still makes him a member imho

Also look at the other things he's been accused of and denied - taking part in Bloody Friday and ordering Jean McConville's death. If he now admits membership he's effectively confirming his role in those murders. He'd never get elected again after that.

When he retires he might come clean

Monty Burnz · 20-01-2011 08:54PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

What's the deal with her? She couldn't hold her seat, she gets reamed in the press, yet she seems like the go-to #2 person in the party.

I presume she's the 'acceptable' face of SF to middle Ireland. A middle class girl, educated, with no links to terrorism, and she was cute looking back when she came on the scene too. All those things apply to Mary Coughlan too though...

Bottle_of_Smoke · 20-01-2011 08:56PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

What's the deal with her? She couldn't hold her seat, she gets reamed in the press, yet she seems like the go-to #2 person in the party.

She makes good speeches. They are very low on candidates. partcularly in the south. Actually think she may have a good chance this time. Better chance than a newbie anyway

delta720 · 20-01-2011 08:59PM

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

I would never consider writing of Sinn Féin immediately just because of past links to the IRA. After all, didn't both Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have links to the IRA in the past also?

Your talking about two different IRA's, also FF and FG didn't have the same links to the IRA as SF do.

The way I like to think about it, is that Sinn Fein and the IRA have the same relationship as Bruce Wayne and Batman.

Why the disregard of Sinn Féin?

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