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Rabbis call for extermination camps for Palestinians.

2

Comments

  • #32
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Another source...
    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party on Sunday accused Jewish rabbis in Israel of calling for religious conflicts and "racial terrorism."

    The "racist, bloody tone" in the Israeli religious speech implies "actual dangers" on the Palestinians, said Jamal Nazzal, a member of Fatah Revolutionary Council.

    His remarks came after an Israeli news website published some quotes from a decree signed by major rabbis in Israel, calling for the creation of "death camps" for the Palestinians.

    The news site, Ynet, highlighted a weekly magazine distributed in synagogues across Israel. The magazine published the decree, which considers the concentration camps for the Palestinians as a religious duty.

    http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/7262862.html


  • #33
    Ronin247
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    The settlers are the most extreme Israelis you can get.This is like quoting the BNP and passing it off as British policy.

    The Palestinians and other Arab states have a stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea.They have actually tried it a few times with sneak attacks such as Yom Kippur and we are outraged by a few radical rabbis ?:rolleyes:


  • #34
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The settlers are the most extreme Israelis you can get.This is like quoting the BNP and passing it off as British policy.

    The Palestinians and other Arab states have a stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea.They have actually tried it a few times with sneak attacks such as Yom Kippur and we are outraged by a few radical rabbis ?:rolleyes:

    We're "outraged" by the settlements whereby these kind of people get to occupy land and are backed by a modern state.


  • #35
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The article does point out that these are extremists, and thus not exactly representative of the Israeli population as a whole.

    Every society will have its nutters. As long as they're just preaching to each other, no great harm done.

    NTM
    The problem is that it is Rabbis who are preaching this crap, and not just some nutter on their verson O'Connell street on a Saturday afternoon.

    Rabbis, as if you did not know, are held in very high esteem by the Israelis. This is akin to a Catholic priest of the 1970's calling for death camps for NI protestants.

    Noelle Billions Acid wrote: »
    They're all a shower of bleed'n nutter's over there.

    Let 'em all at each other for all I care.

    Honestly never thought I'd hear you call Israelis "nutters".

    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The settlers are the most extreme Israelis you can get.This is like quoting the BNP and passing it off as British policy.

    The Palestinians and other Arab states have a stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea.They have actually tried it a few times with sneak attacks such as Yom Kippur and we are outraged by a few radical rabbis ?:rolleyes:

    Once again, this isn't being done by radical politicians. It's religious leaders.
    If there is one country in the West with experience of religious leaders holding sway over political matters, it's Ireland.

    What you have in Israel is a state created by former colonial powers. It's no different to most of Africa.
    What's sad is that African countries were created in a similar way.
    Indigenous people being displaced from their homes.
    The only difference is that Africans don't have a Hitler to cite for their troubles. They're also mostly black, so they have very little say in U.S. politics, and don't have the power of the Jewish lobby.

    Israel, in my opinion is no better than Germany under Hitler. They're just more insidious in their ways.
    They walked onto Palestinian land in 1948, told the people living there to GTFO and then cried when the locals fought back.

    **** Israel.


  • #36
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The settlers are the most extreme Israelis you can get.This is like quoting the BNP and passing it off as British policy.

    The Palestinians and other Arab states have a stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea.They have actually tried it a few times with sneak attacks such as Yom Kippur and we are outraged by a few radical rabbis ?:rolleyes:


    Israel is a racist/apartheid state, and it got where it is today through military might, a historical programme of ethnic cleansing and ongoing policies designed to put the Palestinians under intolerable pressure.

    However, there are many moderate and dissenting voices in Israel, and the worst extremists (who for example regard the Palestinians as the ancient Amalek enemy and therefore a legitimate target for extermination), while influential in certain quarters, are by no means a dominant group.

    The BNP analogy does not hold up though, in my opinion, because the BNP does not have the same level of power and influence as their 'equivalents' in Israel.


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  • #37
    Ronin247
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    Same old anti Israel rabble.The Israelis were driven off that land hundreds of years before.Who was there first,no one knows.If you stand an Israeli and a Palestinian side by side I would like to see you tell which is which,they are the same tribe divided by religion.(surprise surprise)

    No one is addressing the issue of all the Arab states that preach for the outright destruction of the Jews and Israel itself. It is government policy and religious edict in some states.

    The settlements are on land that was kept as a "buffer zone" such as the golan heights to prevent the Arabs carrying out sneak attacks.I dont agree with the settlements but there are two sides to this conflict.Try living in Iraq as a practising Catholic,in fact try it in most Arab countries and come back and tell us about the racist Israeli regime.


  • #38
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Same old anti Israel rabble.The Israelis were driven off that land hundreds of years before.Who was there first,no one knows.If you stand an Israeli and a Palestinian side by side I would like to see you tell which is which,they are the same tribe divided by religion.(surprise surprise)

    No one is addressing the issue of all the Arab states that preach for the outright destruction of the Jews and Israel itself. It is government policy and religious edict in some states.

    The settlements are on land that was kept as a "buffer zone" such as the golan heights to prevent the Arabs carrying out sneak attacks.I dont agree with the settlements but there are two sides to this conflict.Try living in Iraq as a practising Catholic,in fact try it in most Arab countries and come back and tell us about the racist Israeli regime.


    In many cases I probably couldn't distinguish by appearances.

    But stand them side by side and compare their socio-economic status, educational opportunities, working & living conditions...


  • #39
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Terry wrote: »
    The problem is that it is Rabbis who are preaching this crap, and not just some nutter on their verson O'Connell street on a Saturday afternoon.

    Rabbis, as if you did not know, are held in very high esteem by the Israelis. This is akin to a Catholic priest of the 1970's calling for death camps for NI protestants.

    And mullahs are held in high esteem by Afghans. That's not say that if one is a little 'out there' that the locals will not form their own opinion of him, even if he is guaranteed a certain amount of immunity by virtue of his position.

    Even then they can go too far. There was one that was evicted from his 'parish' by his 'parishioners' in our area.
    Honestly never thought I'd hear you call Israelis "nutters".

    I'll call anyone a nutter if I think, in my untrained layman mind, that they are one. The fact that this particular nutter is an Israeli is a bit beside the point, what's more important is his apparently rather uncharitable opinion towards his neighbours.

    NTM


  • #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Same old anti Israel rabble.The Israelis were driven off that land hundreds of years before.Who was there first,no one knows.If you stand an Israeli and a Palestinian side by side I would like to see you tell which is which,they are the same tribe divided by religion.(surprise surprise)
    ....

    No one is addressing the issue of all the Arab states that preach for the outright destruction of the Jews and Israel itself. It is government policy and religious edict in some states.

    ......

    For one thing, thats primarily the non-Arab Iran you seem to be describing. Its under a ream of international sanctions and its a persona non-grata with the majority of the developed nations on the planet, particularily those in the West. Syria is also under a number of embargos.

    Israel, despite its activities, is not under any form of sanction at all. Why should people be worked up about a pariah state thats constantly being dealt with and ignore another malefactor that seems to be immune to consequence?

    There are peace treaties between Israel, Egypt and Jordan. The only thing preventing Syria signing up is the Golan, and negotiations are conducted in secret.

    Besides all that, and even if the worst excesses of Iran were true of all the Arab states (and I don't recall anyone here championing them as somehow noble and worthy examples of how nations should be run), how would that excuse the systematic colonisation of the Occupied Territories and the brutalisation of the Palestinians therein? If the next door neighbours batter their children, do I get a free pass to batter mine?


  • #41
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Some of the nuttier Rabbits in Israel have been at it again...
    Talk about history repeating itself.
    Pfff... They're always at it.
    At it like.. Oh never mind.


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  • #42
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Terry wrote: »

    Honestly never thought I'd hear you call Israelis "nutters".

    I said "Israeli's are nutters", where?.

    Religious extremists everywhere are nutters, at least in my experience.

    Hopefully be back on the Lebanese/Israeli border this summer.. Lovely countries, Lebanon and Israel.


  • #43
    The Saint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Same old anti Israel rabble.

    Hmm...
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The Israelis were driven off that land hundreds of years before. Who was there first,no one knows.
    International borders and states are not defined by 2000 year old land claims. Many groups have resided in the land over the millenia, it doesn't give a claim validity. What gives legitimacy is what you are entitled to under contemporary international law.

    Also, the Jebusites, a Caananite tribe, were in the area before the Israelites. It is a miconception that Jerusalem was established by the Israelites.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    If you stand an Israeli and a Palestinian side by side I would like to see you tell which is which,they are the same tribe divided by religion.(surprise surprise)
    With the exception of a Palestinian Israel, I'd probably make a good stab at telling the difference between a Palestinian and an Israeli and would probably be right 9 times out of 10.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    No one is addressing the issue of all the Arab states that preach for the outright destruction of the Jews and Israel itself. It is government policy and religious edict in some states.
    You're ignoring the fact that in 2002 EVERY Arab state offered Israel full peace, full recognition and full normalisation of relations for a return to its legal borders. This offer has been repeated a number of times but has essentially been ignored.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    The settlements are on land that was kept as a "buffer zone" such as the golan heights to prevent the Arabs carrying out sneak attacks.I dont agree with the settlements but there are two sides to this conflict.
    I find it an incredibly odd justification for settlements that they are a buffer to protect Israeli citizens. It defies logic. How does it protect Israelis to put civilians in a hostile area to protect Israelis? There is no defensive justication for settlements.

    As for the main topic of the thread, while the view of the Rabbis is more extreme than what is normally stated, there is a insidious undercurrent gathering momentum in Israel. Rabbis stating it is forbidden to rent to (Israeli) Arabs in Safed, polls showing that employers prefering not to employ Arabs and that many people don't want to live next to Arabs or homosexuals, community committees refusing to allow Arabs to live in their areas, the proposed loyalty oath, the spiritual leader of a government party saying that the Palestinians and Abbas should perish, the same leader stating that non-Jews were born to serve the Jews, protests in Bat Yam against Jewish women dating Arab men, the current witch hunt of Israeli human rights groups, the shift to the right and growing extremism in the Israeli political system, etc....

    This is a very worrying trend and a lot of Israelis are very worried about the future diection that the country is going in. However, the population as a whole is becoming more religious and intolerant. With the collapse of the left and the strengthening of the religious right I can't see things getting better, but worse. I hope that I a wrong.



    Noelle Billions Acid wrote: »
    Hopefully be back on the Lebanese/Israeli border this summer.. Lovely countries, Lebanon and Israel.
    Inshallah.


  • #44
    curlzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    What I think the really sad part is; if this was true and they actually set up the death camps the rest of the world would discuss it and bemoan it and talk about it and stand by and do ****ing nothing, much like Darfur :(. Rather than be outraged by possible atrocities why not be outraged by the ones that are actually occuring? Like that fact that there exists today between 12 and 20 million people held in slavery.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html


  • #45
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    The Saint wrote: »
    Inshallah.

    Coming to grips with the lingo eh!.

    Well have a few cold one's on Hamra St, God willing.


  • #46
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    What's worrying in this is the fact that the Orthodox are growing at a much faster rate than the moderate Jews in Israel. The orthodox traditionally hold a lot of political strength due to their high voter turnout and the fact its necessary to sweeten the deal for them to draw them into a usually coalition government. This in effect means that they get huge social welfare payouts to continue their non-productive way of living which increase a lot per child - hence the having many many children.

    So if this type of sentiment is growing in this community, the country could really be in for a nasty surprise in a few years. On the other hand, the ultra-orthos don't really like military and are therefore more talk than action, so if they become too powerful in the country, its probably more likely to see an actual proper split and declaration of two independent states.


  • #47
    Ronin247
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    The Saint wrote: »
    Hmm...


    International borders and states are not defined by 2000 year old land claims. Many groups have resided in the land over the millenia, it doesn't give a claim validity. What gives legitimacy is what you are entitled to under contemporary international law. Which recognises the state of Isreal

    Also, the Jebusites, a Caananite tribe, were in the area before the Israelites. It is a miconception that Jerusalem was established by the Israelites. Which is my point,nobody can claim the land because it has changed hands so many times yet people only see the "legitimate" Palestinian claim


    With the exception of a Palestinian Israel, I'd probably make a good stab at telling the difference between a Palestinian and an Israeli and would probably be right 9 times out of 10. Probably........,the highly trained security people at various locations have had suicide bombers walk straight past them and thought they were Jews.I know I couldnt tell the difference.


    You're ignoring the fact that in 2002 EVERY Arab state offered Israel full peace, full recognition and full normalisation of relations for a return to its legal borders. This offer has been repeated a number of times but has essentially been ignored. Of course the condition based on UN Resolution 194 (which calls for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and resolves that any refugees "wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors" should be able to do so or if they otherwise wish to be provided with compensation)." would effectively end Jewish Israel, I would ignore it too


    I find it an incredibly odd justification for settlements that they are a buffer to protect Israeli citizens. It defies logic. How does it protect Israelis to put civilians in a hostile area to protect Israelis? There is no defensive justication for settlements. Didn't justify,didn't say they were defences just stated where they are.My post wasn't clear,it is the buffer zone that is the defence not the settlement(which I still dont agree with)





    Inshallah.

    Sorry for the long post folks


  • #48
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Sounds like Jews and Palestinians are fighting over a meat that they both cannot eat.....:D


  • #49
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    And the Germans killed the Jews, and the Jews killed the Arabs, and the Arabs killed the hostages and that is the news...


  • #50
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Same old anti Israel rabble.The Israelis were driven off that land hundreds of years before.Who was there first,no one knows.If you stand an Israeli and a Palestinian side by side I would like to see you tell which is which,they are the same tribe divided by religion.(surprise surprise)
    The Israelis were nomads. Their holy book says so. The same holy book that says that Israel belongs to them.
    All this crap is based on a 6,000 year old book written by people eating funky Cacti.
    No one is addressing the issue of all the Arab states that preach for the outright destruction of the Jews and Israel itself. It is government policy and religious edict in some states.
    I will.
    They're ****. All of those preaching that crap are complete and utter *****.
    In saying that, two wrongs don't make a right.
    The settlements are on land that was kept as a "buffer zone" such as the golan heights to prevent the Arabs carrying out sneak attacks.I dont agree with the settlements but there are two sides to this conflict.
    Yes, there are two sides to this conflict, but, once again, two wrongs do not make a right.

    The Israelis are quite clearly abusing their power over the Palestinians. How people cannot see this fact is beyond me.
    The continue to force Palestinian out of their homes, and then wonder why the Palestinians are fighting back. The ignorance and lack of action by the civilised world defies all logic.
    When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, the world ran to aid the Kuwaitis, but nothing is being done to stop Israel from doing the same thing.

    We can all sit back and criticise Hamas, but they are the SF of Gaza.
    Yeah, SF is a dirty word in today's Ireland, but it wasn't back in 1920.
    Try living in Iraq as a practising Catholic,in fact try it in most Arab countries and come back and tell us about the racist Israeli regime.
    Are you now, or have you ever been a practicing Catholic living in Iraq?

    Noelle Billions Acid wrote: »
    I said "Israeli's are nutters", where?.
    Here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70148734#post70148734
    Religious extremists everywhere are nutters, at least in my experience.

    Hopefully be back on the Lebanese/Israeli border this summer.. Lovely countries, Lebanon and Israel.
    Enjoy your holiday.


  • #51
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    And the Germans killed the Jews, and the Jews killed the Arabs, and the Arabs killed the hostages and that is the news...

    That kind of stuff could amuse you to death.....:D


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  • #52
    mowhawk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭mowhawk


    Maybe we should ask the Poles to reopen Auschwitz for the Israeli's. As the camp is still fairly intact they would save a lot of money by not having to build a new one from scratch. It would also create a lot of jobs in Poland and the Israeli's could always use those ships that they pirated on the high seas recently to transport those pesky Palestinians. The last experiment in colonialism must succeed regardless of cost! :D


  • #53
    The Saint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Which recognises the state of Isreal.
    Of course, within it internationally recognised borders and no further.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Probably........,the highly trained security people at various locations have had suicide bombers walk straight past them and thought they were Jews.I know I couldnt tell the difference.
    These would be the exception rather than the rule really. I can assure you that I would have a pretty high average in differentiating the two.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Of course the condition based on UN Resolution 194 (which calls for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and resolves that any refugees "wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors" should be able to do so or if they otherwise wish to be provided with compensation)." would effectively end Jewish Israel, I would ignore it too.
    All resolutions call for the resolution of the conflict through the relevant legal parameters. Resolutions call for a solution to the conflict in accordance with UN 242 and 338. Does this mean that Israel will completely withdraw to the pre June 1967 borders in any peace agreement, unlikely.

    These resolutions will form the basis for an agreement but not be implemented absolutely. Many aspects of UN194 will be implemented along the lines of the Clinton parameters and the Geneva initiative such as the return of a token number of Palestinians to Israel and compensation for the rest, as UN 194 states.
    11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
    It is highly unlikely that every Palestinian refugee who has lived or whose decendents have lived and built lives in the surrounding countries and further afield will drop their existing lives and move to Israel. Financial compensation will most likely form the basis of the vast majority of cases.

    Even though the UN and the Quartet cite the Arab peace initiative as one of the mean for achieving a comprehensive peace, the Israeli government barely acknowledged its existence.
    Ronin247 wrote: »
    Didn't justify,didn't say they were defences just stated where they are.My post wasn't clear,it is the buffer zone that is the defence not the settlement(which I still dont agree with)
    A buffer zone indicates an ares by which two sides are kept seperate. Settlements fundamentally undermine this concept as they place Israeli citizens within Palestinian areas. There are ways to implemenet buffer zones militarily without requiring the transfer of a civilian population to the area, a violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Just look at North and South Korea for example.


  • #54
    Lirange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Terry wrote: »
    All this crap is based on a 6,000 year old book written by people eating funky Cacti.


    There is no cacti in the deserts of the Middle East/SW Asia/North Africa. Not all deserts have the same flora/fauna! [/pedant botanist]


  • #55
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Lirange wrote: »
    There is no cacti in the deserts of the Middle East/SW Asia/North Africa. Not all deserts have the same flora/fauna! [/pedant botanist]
    Maybe they ate them all! :P


  • #56
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Lirange wrote: »
    There is no cacti in the deserts of the Middle East/SW Asia/North Africa. Not all deserts have the same flora/fauna! [/pedant botanist]

    There's no castus in the middle east?


  • #57
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Hopefully you will be able to relay the truth from that region if you get posted there, as you usually do.

    Beats the 'dancing on the head of a pin stuff' we get from the usual suspects and their faithful retainers.

    Mary Lou was at the same caper on the PK show this am.


    Shalom!!


  • #58
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Hopefully you will be able to relay the truth from that region if you get posted there, as you usually do.

    Beats the 'dancing on the head of a pin stuff' we get from the usual suspects and their faithful retainers.

    Mary Lou was at the same caper on the PK show this am.


    Shalom!!

    I was wondering how we'd got to this many relatively sensible posts without the interjection of some nonsense or other....on the 'can', were we?


  • #59
    The Saint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Noelle Billions Acid wrote: »
    There's no castus in the middle east?
    That's what I was thinking. My eyes must have deceived me.
    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Hopefully you will be able to relay the truth from that region if you get posted there, as you usually do.

    Beats the 'dancing on the head of a pin stuff' we get from the usual suspects and their faithful retainers.

    Mary Lou was at the same caper on the PK show this am.


    Shalom!!
    Why don't you head over and report back to everyone?


  • #60
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Hopefully you will be able to relay the truth from that region if you get posted there, as you usually do.

    Beats the 'dancing on the head of a pin stuff' we get from the usual suspects and their faithful retainers.

    Mary Lou was at the same caper on the PK show this am.


    Shalom!!

    Thanks.

    When The Saint comes into these discussions I bow out. He's a wealth of knowledge, experience, truth and honesty on Israeli/Palestinian affairs.

    Gimme a war over politics and religion any day :p


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  • #61
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Saint wrote: »
    That's what I was thinking. My eyes must have deceived me.

    These must be tourists.....they might have been on the same plane as ye.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opuntia


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