We Should Abolish Taxes!

Seloth · 13-01-2011 06:25PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

I thought you were speaking about Ireland.

Do you think Canada or Scandinavia has a healthcare system like ours?

No because they get better funding with higher taxes

smash · 13-01-2011 06:25PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

Do you think Canada or Scandinavia has a healthcare system like ours?

No, it's much better actually.

minidazzler · 13-01-2011 06:26PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

I understand completely - the thing is, instead of you saying "right ok, thats something completely different but I wouldn't suggest ______ because _______", you just jump on the bandwagon of negativity.

My statement is legitimate. Perhaps is just the fact that we, as a country, just want more Government interference in our lives. Sad really.

OK, lets get rid of taxes and privatise EVERYTHING.

Any new roads being built are private and are all tolled because they are private.

All Hospitals require proof you can pay for your treatment before you get any.

Only private security companies working and they charge to protect you, a yearly rate.

Fire Departments are privatised and only come out if you have paid in advance.

There are no judges, so noone goes to prison.

There are no regulatory bodies, so companies get away with treating their workers as slaves.

There are no upsides to there being no taxes.

Tipp Man · 13-01-2011 06:27PM

amacca wrote: »

Ah yes ......but then how do we decide (enshrine in our taxation system) who is better than you and I and indeed who are we better than in turn.

This is more important than you think:eek:

Don't follow??

(am very very tired in my defence:D)

RockinRolla · 13-01-2011 06:27PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

OP are you familiar with liberterianism?? You should check it out - its thinking along your lines of thinking

I am familiar with it. Nice to see someone else think about the situation instead of dismissing it because it's beyond their thinking scope.

Tipp Man wrote: »

Socialism is great at spending other people's money but what happens when the other people's money runs out? Guess we'll find out in this country very soon

Margaret Thatcher said the same thing. We may not like the woman - but she hit the nail on the head right there.

liah · 13-01-2011 06:28PM

Essentially, what you're suggesting is anarchy, as if you were to abolish all taxes that would effectively remove the government entirely.

While a romantic notion, that lovely human ideal of absolute freedom, it's simply not realistic. When there is no law, there are few repercussions. You think people are bad now? It would be chaotic.

Taxes are contributions to quality of life and a 'toll' for being allowed to take part in society. Without health care, millions would not be able to afford private insurance because, without law, business could charge whatever they like. Without education, millions would be ignorant and society would very quickly become degenerate; racism and homophobia and sexism and violence of all sorts would run rampant. No control or regulation over edibles and consumables would mean disease and hunger. There would be fierce battles for territory.

Basically, it would undo everything we've done to get to this point. And whether you realize it or not, you've got it pretty damn good and I guarantee you that's because people have paid taxes that resulted in enriching your life. It helps others, but it helps you too, and you should remember that before thinking about it so selfishly. It's paying back your debt. It's paper.

What is more important to you? Living a brilliant, happy life as a healthy and educated person, knowing you live in a happy, healthy and educated country? Or would you really rather sit there and count your coins as society around you goes to hell?

The indirect hate and complete lack of understanding or foresight present in some of these statements are unsettling.

sensibleken · 13-01-2011 06:29PM

Being a complete thick, i wholeheartely agree

ascanbe · 13-01-2011 06:29PM

There's tons of empty libertarian posturing in the politics forum, OP; your 'ideas' will find favour there.

amacca · 13-01-2011 06:31PM

minidazzler wrote: »

There are no judges, so noone goes to prison.

There are no upsides to there being no taxes.

I was with you there on most other things, But I would be willing to provide a proper old skool prison service....for a small fee of course

you would'nt mind too much how long the prisoners survived would you? I could harness their "skills" as part of the rehabilitation process.

RockinRolla · 13-01-2011 06:31PM

Seloth wrote: »

No because they get better funding with higher taxes

Private Healthcare is better. Fact.

steve06 wrote: »

No, it's much better actually.

Have you seen the state of the HSE? It's not normal people should say, "oh, not down here - we'll be here for 4 hours...". Snap out of it.

minidazzler wrote: »

OK, lets get rid of taxes and privatise EVERYTHING.

Any new roads being built are private and are all tolled because they are private.

All Hospitals require proof you can pay for your treatment before you get any.

Only private security companies working and they charge to protect you, a yearly rate.

Fire Departments are privatised and only come out if you have paid in advance.

There are no judges, so noone goes to prison.

There are no regulatory bodies, so companies get away with treating their workers as slaves.

There are no upsides to there being no taxes.

I don't think thats a fair assessment.

sensibleken · 13-01-2011 06:33PM

Ban beards!!!! i hate beards

smash · 13-01-2011 06:33PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

Have you seen the state of the HSE? It's not normal people should say, "oh, not down here - we'll be here for 4 hours...". Snap out of it.

What are you talking about now? I said Canada has a better health system than us. That's true!

liah · 13-01-2011 06:34PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

Private Healthcare is better. Fact.

If there was universal healthcare that was well-funded by taxes, literally every single person would be looked after from birth to death with high quality health care and there would be absolutely no need for private healthcare where only a select few are able to get care.

This results in a healthier society, which ultimately results in a more productive one.

It's really not that hard to see where the holes in your statements are.

RichieC · 13-01-2011 06:35PM

What a well thought out position, OP.

amacca · 13-01-2011 06:35PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Don't follow??

(am very very tired in my defence:D)

A persons paycheck being one way of estimating how much your society values you.

A persons access to various tax avoidance loopholes being another way to judge how much society values your contribution to it.

(tenuous on its own perhaps:D)

amacca · 13-01-2011 06:37PM

sensibleken wrote: »

Ban beards!!!! i hate beards

Indeed, hairy face occluding bastards of things.

minidazzler · 13-01-2011 06:38PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

I don't think thats a fair assessment.

It's fact, these services would not exist. I fancied myself an anarchist when I was 16, now I realise that it's not a possibility and is in fact a bad idea given that people are not actually as nice or good as idealists will say. We are too greedy to share.

The way things are run sucks, but still, it runs better than if it was every man for himself!

strobe · 13-01-2011 06:38PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

I don't think thats a fair assessment.

Why do you not think it is a fair assessment though? You will get further if you try and point out the problems with peoples posts rather than just stating that you disagree with them.

If you disagree that what minidazzler said will happen why do you disagree? Why do you not think it will happen. How do you think it will be avoided? Why do you think it should be avoided? Do you think it should be avoided and if not why not? Is that not ultimate outcome of a libertarian society?

sensibleken · 13-01-2011 06:40PM

I say we tax rain.

Tipp Man · 13-01-2011 06:41PM

steve06 wrote: »

What are you talking about now? I said Canada has a better health system than us. That's true!

Do people ever think that it is not the amount of money that we are spending on health that is the problem??

Ever think it is how the funding is allocated and used that is the problem?? God knows we've thrown enough money at health and education in the last decade and got nothing in return

And for people (idiots) who think we should tax more to have a better healthcare system then you might be surprised to know that our PUBLIC expenditure per capita is HIGHER than Canada's

They do however spend more privately than we do

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/7/5/saupload_f2.JPG

Seloth · 13-01-2011 06:42PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

Private Healthcare is better. Fact.

Have you seen the state of the HSE? It's not normal people should say, "oh, not down here - we'll be here for 4 hours...". Snap out of it.

I don't think thats a fair assessment.

Then if you want Private health care you can do so.But for a whole nation to be under that it is ridiculous.Many would not be able to afford it!Just look at the US for an example.

Sykk · 13-01-2011 06:42PM

Yeah who needs Police, Firemen, Hospitals, Ambulances, Teachers, roads, sewerage systems etc etc.

Trog · 13-01-2011 06:43PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

I am familiar with it. Nice to see someone else think about the situation instead of dismissing it because it's beyond their thinking scope.

Mentioning a political theory means he thought about it? John Rawls. Utilitarianism. Ayn Rand. I win the argument.

Actually, I can win by just that. AYN RAND supports libertarianism. QED.

Edit: That was off the top of my head, from a class 3 years ago. Didn't even google it.

Tipp Man · 13-01-2011 06:43PM

liah wrote: »

If there was universal healthcare that was well-funded by taxes, literally every single person would be looked after from birth to death with high quality health care and there would be absolutely no need for private healthcare where only a select few are able to get care.

This results in a healthier society, which ultimately results in a more productive one.

It's really not that hard to see where the holes in your statements are.

Here's a massive hole in your statement

Who is going to pay all the taxes to get the level of cover that you refer to above??

upinthesky · 13-01-2011 06:44PM

RockinRolla wrote: »

Think about it.

Doesn't it seem a little tyrannical for Government to take money from Michael and give it to Paul? Is it acceptable that Government would take money from Sean to build a road over the other side of the country that Sean will never use? Have we to be fined for not paying RTE's license even though we don't watch RTE?

If a person earns 34,000 annually - Government take 4,000 of that alone just for Income Tax. But you're sending your money to bureaucrats in Government - do you think your money will be used to the benefit of the taxpayer or allocated equally and fairly?

What if there was no Income Tax - you would have the extra 4,000 in your pocket and buy your own services yourself - and for a cheaper price (VHI is NOT 4,000 a year).

The same with Water Tax. There are four things necessary for life - and water is one of them. Isn't a tax on water, a tax literally on breathing?! How can anyone put a tax on life? Will there be a tax on oxygen next or will Al Gore come to his senses and stop trying to convince the world his theories are not utter crap?

totally agree

Trog · 13-01-2011 06:45PM

Sykk wrote: »

Yeah who needs Police,

This guy

partyatmygaff · 13-01-2011 06:47PM

People of AH, let it be known that 'Mr.Enlightened' (the OP) effectively called me a moronic child for being 17 and daring to disagree with his poorly thought out yet self righteous and superior posts.

sensibleken · 13-01-2011 06:47PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

.... massive hole....

Teeheehee!

RockinRolla · 13-01-2011 06:53PM

strobe wrote: »

Why do you not think it is a fair assessment though? You will get further if you try and point out the problems with peoples posts rather than just stating that you disagree with them.

If you disagree that what minidazzler said will happen why do you disagree? Why do you not think it will happen. How do you think it will be avoided? Why do you think it should be avoided? Do you think it should be avoided and if not why not? Is that not ultimate outcome of a libertarian society?

Because as soon as someone mentions Libertarianism, the whole forum goes nuts and speaks of it in an negative light. People have come to demonize it - thats the mainstream view. But what people fail to realise is that there are many different forms of libertarianism.

There are libertarian socialists for example, anarchists, left-libertarians and then those libertarians who believe in social libertarianism but economy regulation and visa versa. We all have libertarian values in all of us. I know you're a libertarian for example - in that you may not agree with privatising the economy but you may respect the freedom of other people to marry same gendered people or participate in recreational drug use so long as it doesnt hurt you.

What people are confused with is the fact that all Libertarians are not Extreme Anarchists.

Now, I have suggested that if the majority of taxes we pay to the Government for services where sought after by ourselves, wouldn't this be a better alternative? Taxing water is not ethical and income tax is too forceful. If there was property tax, we could tax the church and pay law enforcement...that is what this thread is about....ideas. Not a full attack on me.

General Zod · 13-01-2011 06:56PM

Libertarian nonsense.

We Should Abolish Taxes!

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