Freemasons?

studiorat · 07-01-2011 01:38AM

Very simply put... After years of strife the Cote d'Ivorie eventually had their presidential elections. Laurent Gbagbo the current president is refusing to step down; there's only a couple of percent between him and winner Hassan Ouattara.

On the one hand you have people saying Ouattara will introduce Sharia law into the country and on the other hand you have people saying Ouattara is too western and a freemason.

So either the freemasons are going to take over or the Mullahs are, I guess your point of view depends on your bogeyman du jour.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 01:40AM

Emme wrote: »

Dunno, from what I hear Masons generally look for light.

Yeah which is why I thought that maybe "in the dark" was a derogatory term initially used by masons to describe the ignorance of the great unwashed.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 01:42AM

studiorat wrote: »

Very simply put... After years of strife the Cote d'Ivorie eventually had their presidential elections. Laurent Gbagbo the current president is refusing to step down; there's only a couple of percent between him and winner Hassan Ouattara.

On the one hand you have people saying Ouattara will introduce Sharia law into the country and on the other hand you have people saying Ouattara is too western and a freemason.

So either the freemasons are going to take over or the Mullahs are, I guess your point of view depends on your bogeyman du jour.

Alternatively your point of view can depend on the facts.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 01:56AM

Richard tea wrote: »

You actually read it, good man yourself. Im too lazy ( Dumb ) to find the connections between the freemasons and the ongoing Ivory coast issue.

Ouattara has a number of chivalric hounours which overlaps with masonry.

From his IMF profile. http://www.imf.org/external/np/omd/bios/ado.htm

Mr. Ouattara has received several honors, including: "Commander of the Ordre du Lion," Senegal; "Commander of the Ordre du Mono," Togo; "Commander of the National Order of Niger;" "Grand Officier of the National Order of Côte d'Ivoire;" and Honorary Governor, BCEAO.

gizmo · 07-01-2011 03:31AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Alternatively your point of view can depend on the facts.

Quite right and the fact of the matter in this case is, Gbagbo would be in breach of the country's constitution if he was to remain in power therefore he should step down.

studiorat · 07-01-2011 09:58AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Alternatively your point of view can depend on the facts.

which once again you've come up short on.

what did you mean by the freemason era?

getz · 07-01-2011 10:52AM

studiorat wrote: »

which once again you've come up short on.

what did you mean by the freemason era?

the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon,even today if you go down [under ground] to the quarries near temple mount,you will find 100s of masons names and lodge numbers in graffity on the walls,they even held lodge meetings in the caves under the mount in the 19th century,

Emme · 07-01-2011 11:27AM

getz wrote: »

the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon,even today if you go down [under ground] to the quarries near temple mount,you will find 100s of masons names and lodge numbers in graffity on the walls,they even held lodge meetings in the caves under the mount in the 19th century,

If so why do Freemasons claim the organisation was started in the 18th century?

studiorat · 07-01-2011 11:37AM

getz wrote: »

the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon,even today if you go down [under ground] to the quarries near temple mount,you will find 100s of masons names and lodge numbers in graffity on the walls,they even held lodge meetings in the caves under the mount in the 19th century,

According to Masonic ritual, which it seems you believe?

Phill Ewinn · 07-01-2011 11:45AM

getz wrote: »

the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon,even today if you go down [under ground] to the quarries near temple mount,you will find 100s of masons names and lodge numbers in graffity on the walls,they even held lodge meetings in the caves under the mount in the 19th century,

thats a revelation. seriously if anyone has links to back this up I want to see. there were three temples built. Each one on the same site where the original was destroyed.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 12:03PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

thats a revelation. seriously if anyone has links to back this up I want to see. there were three temples built. Each one on the same site where the original was destroyed.

As far as I know other than the Bible there is no solid evidence whatsoever that Soloman ever even existed.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 12:08PM

gizmo wrote: »

Quite right and the fact of the matter in this case is, Gbagbo would be in breach of the country's constitution if he was to remain in power therefore he should step down.

Naturally, IF he has in fact lost the election fairly but I am not convinced of that. All I am sure of is that the EU, US, French especially in Ivory Coast and the established world media couldn't give a **** who is ruling any African country and what it means for the African people as long as the first world states are profitting.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 12:09PM

studiorat wrote: »

which once again you've come up short on. ?

What are you talking about now? Which facts have I "come up short on" regarding Ivory Coast.

Quote me please.

studiorat wrote: »

what did you mean by the freemason era?

Honestly can't remember.

getz · 07-01-2011 12:11PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

thats a revelation. seriously if anyone has links to back this up I want to see. there were three temples built. Each one on the same site where the original was destroyed.

the first grand lodge was built in 1717 in england,but before then freemasons had to keep themselves underground because of the catholic churches no tolerance rule,the knights templar or order of the poor knights of christ and of the temple of solomon,were formed in the 12th century,they were europes bankers and in 1314 fled with their wealth to scotland in 1314,this is the known first parent of modern freemasonary,you will find all the secret masonic signs in many churches,paintings and rightings of great artists over the centuries,the temple of solomon proof was on documentary yesterday,looking at the tunnels under temple mount

studiorat · 07-01-2011 12:37PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What are you talking about now? Which facts have I "come up short on" regarding Ivory Coast.

Quote me please.

Honestly can't remember.

No facts at all, you didn't comment on CI until I did... I posted facts regarding both pov's.
And you made some dull meaningless comment which simply re-enforces what I said already.

Anyway, I don't believe you can't remember. Assuming you mean an era to be a period of time. And a "Freemason Era" would then be a period of masonic history of some description.

How can you forget that? You seem to know plenty about the masons. I think you're tellin' a little porkie there.

getz · 07-01-2011 01:07PM

the first reference to freemasons in england was in1620 when a elias asmole was initiated in 1646 with six others,the earlyist authentic evidence is 1620, quote; but by whatever name it was known in this or another country,masonary has existed as it now exists,the same in spirit and at heart,not only when solomon built the temple,but centuries before--before the first colonies emagrated into persia and egypt,from the cradle of the human race.....albert pike 1857

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 01:13PM

studiorat wrote: »

No facts at all, you didn't comment on CI until I did... I posted facts regarding both pov's.
And you made some dull meaningless comment which simply re-enforces what I said already.

Anyway, I don't believe you can't remember. Assuming you mean an era to be a period of time. And a "Freemason Era" would then be a period of masonic history of some description.

How can you forget that? You seem to know plenty about the masons. I think you're tellin' a little porkie there.

I had to look it up it was "eras" not "era" .

The KKK had forbidden Catholic membership up until 1975, at which point they had faded into non significance. In the masonic eras the KKK was unashamedly anti-Catholic. The original KKK and it's post WWI revivial form were founded and ran by freemasons.

I was referring to the the first two masonic and influential incarnations of the Klan to distinguish it from it third and current form of today neo-Nazi David Duke type redknecks.

Brown Bomber · 07-01-2011 01:15PM

getz wrote: »

the first reference to freemasons in england was in1620 when a elias asmole was initiated in 1646 with six others,the earlyist authentic evidence is 1620, quote; but by whatever name it was known in this or another country,masonary has existed as it now exists,the same in spirit and at heart,not only when solomon built the temple,but centuries before--before the first colonies emagrated into persia and egypt,from the cradle of the human race.....albert pike 1857

Have youever listened to any of the Mystery Babylon series by Bill Cooper?

I wouldn't vouch for it's accuracy but it is fascinating imo goes into the history of this from the dawn of time essentially.

studiorat · 07-01-2011 01:56PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I had to look it up it was "eras" not "era" .

I was referring to the the first two masonic and influential incarnations of the Klan to distinguish it from it third and current form of today neo-Nazi David Duke type redknecks.

So let's see.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In the masonic eras the KKK was unashamedly anti-Catholic.

Actually the emphasis on Catholicism was during the second incarnation. I doubt Dukes followers would be too big on the holy see either.

The thing is the relationship between the KKK and the Masons was a pretty one-sided affair. I mean do you seriously believe that the Prince Hall Lodge or the Irish Military Lodge (founded long before) in Boston have anything to do with the KKK?

You should google the Sons of Solomon Motorcycle club from Nashville TN to see the Masons and KKK in action.

Absolam · 07-01-2011 02:19PM

getz wrote: »

its been going on since the masonic lodges first formed,every western country has masons at the very top of its goverment and buisness,goverments have fallen because of masonic interference,even the EU is under the control of masonic influence. you can fool some of the people some of the time,but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Are you going to stick with your usual polemic, or actually try to back your assertions up with facts this time?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Ouattara has a number of chivalric hounours which overlaps with masonry.From his IMF profile. http://www.imf.org/external/np/omd/bios/ado.htm

What exactly is that supposed to mean, "hounours which overlaps with masonry"? Nothing listed in your link has anything to do with Freemasonry.

getz wrote: »

the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon,even today if you go down [under ground] to the quarries near temple mount,you will find 100s of masons names and lodge numbers in graffity on the walls,they even held lodge meetings in the caves under the mount in the 19th century,

Eh... evidence to back that up? Don't know why I ask, as there can't be any....

getz wrote: »

the first grand lodge was built in 1717 in england,but before then freemasons had to keep themselves underground because of the catholic churches no tolerance rule,the knights templar or order of the poor knights of christ and of the temple of solomon,were formed in the 12th century,they were europes bankers and in 1314 fled with their wealth to scotland in 1314,this is the known first parent of modern freemasonary,you will find all the secret masonic signs in many churches,paintings and rightings of great artists over the centuries,the temple of solomon proof was on documentary yesterday,looking at the tunnels under temple mount

Again... evidence? It's a well loved tale that some Templars in Scotland may have been involved in setting up the Freemasons (some 3000ish years after you say the first Freemason built the Temple of Solomon) but I don't believe anyone has ever come up with enough evidence to make the case.

getz wrote: »

the first reference to freemasons in england was in1620 when a elias asmole was initiated in 1646 with six others,the earlyist authentic evidence is 1620, quote; but by whatever name it was known in this or another country,masonary has existed as it now exists,the same in spirit and at heart,not only when solomon built the temple,but centuries before--before the first colonies emagrated into persia and egypt,from the cradle of the human race.....albert pike 1857

So... not when the Temple was built then? I can't imagine you're actually taking Pikes' poetic ramblings and offering them as historical research?

amazingemmet · 07-01-2011 03:06PM

Absolam wrote: »

Again... evidence? It's a well loved tale that some Templars in Scotland may have been involved in setting up the Freemasons (some 3000ish years after you say the first Freemason built the Temple of Solomon) but I don't believe anyone has ever come up with enough evidence to make the case.

Actually I just read this book, link below, that builds a very strong case that this is actually the case backed up with reference to actual historic documents and not just idle conjecture and speculation. Its a very interesting book, well researched and backs everything up in the way you'd expect with an actual academic work.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Hiram-Unlocking-Secrets-Key/dp/0099429233/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1294412514&sr=8-2

gizmo · 07-01-2011 03:15PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Naturally, IF he has in fact lost the election fairly but I am not convinced of that. All I am sure of is that the EU, US, French especially in Ivory Coast and the established world media couldn't give a **** who is ruling any African country and what it means for the African people as long as the first world states are profitting.

Not really, he should never have stood in the election in the first place given the constitutional restriction on Presidents serving for more than 10 years.

On top of that, of course, is the highly suspicious ruling by the (ironically named in this case) Constitutional Council, which is headed by an ally of Gbagbo, who overturned the results by nullifying 10% of Ouattara's vote. This left Gbagbo with, coincidentally enough, 51% of the vote. Also as a matter of coincidence, the votes which were nullified came from the northern territories, areas which, oddly enough, would be home to most of Ouattara's supporters.

Nehaxak · 07-01-2011 06:20PM

Don't see much difference between freemasonry and established known terrorist groups. Both are subversive, secretive and their members intent on subverting both public, private and government influence. They might not personally get their hands bloodied and they make every effort to distance themselves from same but they damn well have pushed the influence hard enough for others to do it for them.

Far as I'm concerned, Freemasonry should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation.

My name is URL · 07-01-2011 07:32PM

Nehaxak wrote: »

Far as I'm concerned, Freemasonry should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation.

Seriously? That seems awfully drastic to me. Maybe they are too shrouded in secrecy, or at least that's a widely held perception. afaik, the only secrecy officially required from the organisation has to do with handshakes and other means of identifying masons (could be wrong about that though). There's around 5 million masons worldwide.. do they all deserve to be classed as subversives and terrorists?

It's a massive organization, and no doubt bad apples exist within it but that's no reason to label the entire thing as a criminal cabal, especially considering the amount of charitable work that many of them undertake.

Brown Bomber · 08-01-2011 04:49AM

Absolam wrote: »

What exactly is that supposed to mean, "hounours which overlaps with masonry"? Nothing listed in your link has anything to do with Freemasonry.

I was trying to make the point that there are strong ties between chivalric orders and fraternal ones.

A Short History of the Masonic Knights Templar

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/templarh.html

Masonic Templars

royal-exalted-religious-and-military-order-of-masonic-knights-templar-of-england-and-wales.jpg

American Masonic Templar

The Degree of Knight of Malta (Order of Malta)

This degree is universally associated with the Masonic Knights Templar. In the York Rite system it is conferred before the Templar Degree; in the 'stand-alone' tradition it is conferred subsequently to the Templar Degree. It is known by varying degrees of formality as the Order of Malta, or the Order of Knights of Malta, or the Ancient and Masonic Order of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes, and Malta. In practice this last and fullest version of the name tends to be reserved to letterheads, rituals, and formal documents.
The ceremony for conferring the degree (which is always worked in full) contains a mixture of masonic tradition, historical accounts of the Order of St John, moral teaching, and the communication of modes of recognition between members. A series of banners is employed in the ceremony, each representing one of the great battles of the historic medieval Order of St John, whose story is the basis of the moral teachings of the degree.

It's Sammy Davis JR of the order of Malta

And od the church of satan. Seen here with Anton Lavey and Michael Aquino temple of set founder. Their into their rituals too.

One of our primary mind control programmers was Lieutenant Colonel Michael Aquino. He was with the psychological warfare division of the US Army and founder of the occult "Temple of Set" that is proliferating on our military bases under the guise of a religion. He doesn't have any religious beliefs that I ever saw, but he used occultism as a trauma base for mind control. The only Satanic power that I ever experienced by Aquino was in the form of a stun gun. The high voltage that he administered to both my daughter and I, compartmentalized memories of programs for later access by certain government leaders and ClA-sanctioned drug lords that had the codes, keys and triggers to that program. Sex, Lies, and Mind Control by Cathy O'Brien

It was reported to me and given in Federal Court, February 1999, by Paul Bonacci, that "Michael Aquino ... called the "Colonel" was in fact the man who came to Iowa, paid the kidnappers for taking Johnny, then took Johnny with him. This took place 14 days after the kidnapping. Bonacci stated this under oath in Federal Court. Judge Urbom ruled Bonacci was telling the truth. [2005] Noreen Gosch Speaks About - Jeff Gannon, Johnny Gosch And The Attempted Theft Of Her Book 'Why Johnny Can't Come Home' By Charlene Fassa

In 1989, 21 year old Paul Bonacci, a convicted child molester surfaces with a tale that is still spinning conspiracy theories today. While serving time in an Omaha, Neb. prison for molesting a young boy, Bonacci admitted to his psychiatrist he helped abduct Iowa newspaper boy Johnny Gosch. He claimed there was an organized ring of pedophiles in Omaha that abducts children and forces them into a life of pornography and prostitution and in some cases auctions off these children to clients for sex.

Bonacci, who suffers from a multiple personality disorder, had been a key witness in Ohmaha's Franklin Federal Credit Union bank scandal. He testified that Larry E. King, who was charged and convicted with embezzling $40 million from the bank, had wild sex parties at his home and Bonacci himself had sex with several prominent Omaha citizens who were there.

Larry E. King, was a major Republican fundraiser based in Omaha and sang the national anthem at both the 1984 and 1988 Republican conventions. Bonacci claimed that he and others were taken to the Republican convention in Dallas and also made numerous trips to King's Washington, DC apartment on Embassy Row where they were offered up for sex-for-pay with prominent Republican politicians.

Bonacci claims that this organized ring picked him up at the age of eight and forced him into prostitution. He says he was photographed, blackmailed and later forced to be a decoy to lure young boys, like Johnny, into waiting vehicles. Bonacci admits that he became a molester himself.
Bonacci's attorney, John DeCamp, phoned the Gosches with this story and the Gosch's private investigator Roy Stephens spent two years trying to disprove Bonacci's claims. Because Bonacci had been charged with perjury and perpetrating a hoax by the grand jury in the Franklin Credit scandal, neither the FBI nor the West Des Moines Police would even interview him about the Gosch case. They still feel he is an unreliable witness.

In the two years Roy Stephens investigated Bonacci, he went from skeptic to supporter, and some of Bonacci's story and the evidence Roy Stephens uncovered is compelling:

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=26170

Absolam wrote: »

So... not when the Temple was built then? I can't imagine you're actually taking Pikes' poetic ramblings and offering them as historical research?

I'd be interested in your dating of the temple and you offering your research.

(Incidentally there was a good article in the National Geographic magazine last month on this for anyone who might be interested)

Brown Bomber · 08-01-2011 05:30PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Seriously? That seems awfully drastic to me. Maybe they are too shrouded in secrecy, or at least that's a widely held perception. afaik, the only secrecy officially required from the organisation has to do with handshakes and other means of identifying masons (could be wrong about that though). There's around 5 million masons worldwide.. do they all deserve to be classed as subversives and terrorists?

It's a massive organization, and no doubt bad apples exist within it but that's no reason to label the entire thing as a criminal cabal, especially considering the amount of charitable work that many of them undertake.

John Gotti gave a lot to charity doesn't make the mob any less evil. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book:

Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

Yitzhak Rabin · 09-01-2011 07:40PM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

John Gotti gave a lot to charity doesn't make the mob any less evil. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book:

Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

The thrust of his point is its ridiculous, and slanderous, to equivocate freemasonry and international terrorism.

Do you agree that freemasonry cannot be in anyway considered a terrorist organisation?

Absolam · 10-01-2011 12:10AM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I was trying to make the point that there are strong ties between chivalric orders and fraternal ones.

So, without the pictures, your point is anyone who is a member of a chivalric order has "honours overlapping with freemasonry"? I don't think the Knights of Columbanus would agree with that, never mind Freemasons. Shoehorning in the cultists who do awful things because they like ritual and that ties them to the Freemasons; awesome argument. Must remember your quotes the next time I want to attack the Christians, after all they like their ritual too, don't they?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I'd be interested in your dating of the temple and you offering your research.

(Incidentally there was a good article in the National Geographic magazine last month on this for anyone who might be interested).

I wasn't debating GETZs' dating of the various Temples;I was pointing out that he started by saying that "the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon", and finished by saying "the earlyist authentic evidence is 1620", which is not the most consistent argument.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

John Gotti gave a lot to charity doesn't make the mob any less evil. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book:

Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power

So anyone who is charitable is evil? Or just the ones you don't like? The giving of alms is central to Islam; does that make it an evil religion?

Brown Bomber · 10-01-2011 12:39AM

yekahs wrote: »

The thrust of his point is its ridiculous, and slanderous, to equivocate freemasonry and international terrorism.

Do you agree that freemasonry cannot be in anyway considered a terrorist organisation?

Broadly speaking no but I am sure the royals in France and Russia considered them a terrorist organisation.

Brown Bomber · 10-01-2011 01:00AM

Absolam wrote: »

So, without the pictures, your point is anyone who is a member of a chivalric order has "honours overlapping with freemasonry"? I don't think the Knights of Columbanus would agree with that, never mind Freemasons. Shoehorning in the cultists who do awful things because they like ritual and that ties them to the Freemasons; awesome argument.

This is the full statement I made

Ouattara has a number of chivalric hounours which overlaps with masonry.

Obviously the sentence wasn't structured as well as it could be. So I clarified with

I was trying to make the point that there are strong ties between chivalric orders and fraternal ones.

I'll try to clarify one further time. There are overlaps between chivalric orders e.g. Order of Malta and fraternal orders e.g. freemasons. This is correct is it not?

Absolam wrote: »

.Must remember your quotes the next time I want to attack the Christians, after all they like their ritual too, don't they?

Make a habit out of attacking Christians do we?

Absolam wrote: »

I wasn't debating GETZs' dating of the various Temples;I was pointing out that he started by saying that "the first freemason was the one who built the temple of solomon", and finished by saying "the earlyist authentic evidence is 1620", which is not the most consistent argument.

As I've mentioned previously I don't believe that there is in fact any solid proof of Soloman's temple ever even existing, nor Soloman himself. As Soloman is a central figure to masonry I wondered if you had reason to support the existence of Soloman?

Absolam wrote: »

So anyone who is charitable is evil? Or just the ones you don't like? The giving of alms is central to Islam; does that make it an evil religion?

I never claimed that charity is evil now did I? I stated that charitable acts don't remove the possibility of a more sinister purpose.

What's the point of masonic charity anyway? Who recieves it?

Women? The poor? Unemplyed? refugees? the blind? the deaf? disabled? mentally ill?

I'm sure these groups make up a large proportion of your elitist club.

Freemasons?

Comments