Freemasons?

Absolam

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I'll try to clarify one further time. There are overlaps between chivalric orders e.g. Order of Malta and fraternal orders e.g. freemasons. This is correct is it not?

It is not. There are appendant bodies within Freemasonry which are chivalric, but there are no external chivalric bodies which "overlap" with Freemasonry. Specifically; neither the Order of Malta, nor the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, have any association or "overlap" with the Masonic Order.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Make a habit out of attacking Christians do we?

Good call; abandon your point and try something else instead.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

As I've mentioned previously I don't believe that there is in fact any solid proof of Soloman's temple ever even existing, nor Soloman himself. As Soloman is a central figure to masonry I wondered if you had reason to support the existence of Soloman?

None whatsoever; if you refer to previous posts on this thread you'll see why.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I never claimed that charity is evil now did I? I stated that charitable acts don't remove the possibility of a more sinister purpose. What's the point of masonic charity anyway?

We've discussed this in the thread before; why do you continue to insist that charity should have any purpose other than itself?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Who recieves it? Women? The poor? Unemplyed? refugees? the blind? the deaf? disabled? mentally ill? I'm sure these groups make up a large proportion of your elitist club.

All of the above will have received charitable donations from the Freemasons. How is that elitist?

squod

Absolam wrote: »

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None whatsoever; if you refer to previous posts on this thread you'll see why.

The subsequent temples? Herod's or whatever, do you believe they existed?

Absolam

squod wrote: »

The subsequent temples? Herod's or whatever, do you believe they existed?

Why do you ask? Seems rather irrelevant to the point in hand?

squod

No. Not irrelevant at all. I asked if you believe in the susequent temples. Ties into the points I made earlier, long time ago now. No one can prove Solomon existed but others followed his way.

Absolam

squod wrote: »

No. Not irrelevant at all. I asked if you believe in the susequent temples. Ties into the points I made earlier, long time ago now. No one can prove Solomon existed but others followed his way.

Your previous points revolved around your idea that Freemasons learn lessons from Solomon, a figure you seemed to dislike due to his pantheistic leanings late in his story (#376, #384, #389, #392, #398).
As to my belief in the temples on Mount Moriah, rather than claiming belief with it's obvious religious connotations, I would say I am aware that there is evidence of two Jewish temples, a Jovian temple, a Christian church, and an Islamic mosque being built on temple mount. Since there is archeological evidence, I don't think belief enters into it really.
So if Solomon built the first temple, then others certainly built on it.

squod

Absolam wrote: »

Your previous points revolved around your idea that Freemasons learn lessons from Solomon, a figure you seemed to dislike due to his pantheistic leanings late in his story (#376, #384, #389, #392, #398).
As to my belief in the temples on Mount Moriah, rather than claiming belief with it's obvious religious connotations, I would say I am aware that there is evidence of two Jewish temples, a Jovian temple, a Christian church, and an Islamic mosque being built on temple mount. Since there is archeological evidence, I don't think belief enters into it really.
So if Solomon built the first temple, then others certainly built on it.

It strikes me that you're doing this again. You're saying on the one hand that freemasons believe in a grand architect, yet you insist that it's not a religion or a cult. What am I to make of all this?

I am asking if you believe as a matter of faith in something which isn't physically represented yet is part of the culture of freemasonry (solomons temple). I'm only trying to makes sense of what you say here. Isn't there a semblance of a belief system in freemasonry? Is Solomon a key figure?

Absolam

squod wrote: »

It strikes me that you're doing this again. You're saying on the one hand that freemasons believe in a grand architect, yet you insist that it's not a religion or a cult. What am I to make of all this?

I'm deliberately avoiding offering my beliefs for discussion to make the point; my beliefs have nothing to do with Freemasonry; Freemasonry is not a religion. I didn't say that freemasons believe in a grand architect, I said that a candidate must profess a belief in a supreme being. As I previously posted, Freemasonry includes believers from many faiths and does not discriminate between them. Having members who believe doesn't make Freemasonry a religion or cult, it makes it an organisation which accepts members of religions or cults.

squod wrote: »

I am asking if you believe as a matter of faith in something which isn't physically represented yet is part of the culture of freemasonry (solomons temple). I'm only trying to makes sense of what you say here. Isn't there a semblance of a belief system in freemasonry? Is Solomon a key figure?

I don't have a belief or faith in Solomons Temple as something which isn't physically represented, or which appears to be to you in some way iconic. I did make the point previously:

Absolam wrote: »

Biblical stories (such as those in Kings) are used are reference points for morality stories in Masonic ritual; hardly surprising since these would have been very familiar stories to people in the 17th century.

Freemasonry is most certainly not a belief system, it just has members who themselves have many belief systems.

squod

The grand architect then, is this figure a fable? Is his connection to freemasonry a misrepresentation of the truth by us outsiders?

Absolam

squod wrote: »

The grand architect then, is this figure a fable? Is his connection to freemasonry a misrepresentation of the truth by us outsiders?

That really rather depends on who you think the grand architect is,doesn't it? For Freemasons, the great architect can often be a catchall term, used to describe such deities as may be favoured by the members, without preferring one over another. Nothing at all to do with King Solomon I'm afraid.

WakeUp

Absolam wrote: »

That really rather depends on who you think the grand architect is,doesn't it?

Who do you believe is the grand architect?..

Was on the Irish Mason site found this picture of Georgy boy is he your chief? Do you give thanks and pay homage to him? He has that Kingish' I know all sorts of sh1t you dont and never will look about him, say he knows a good ssshhhh secret or two.



As much as I dig his snooker ref gloves Im half expecting to find another picture of him doing a moonwalk somewhere. What do his medals represent? How did he earn them? Do all members of the hood have bling or is it just an overlord thing?..

Nehaxak

Mofo be pimpin' yo !

Absolam

Well done Wakeup; erudite, considered and concise. You've added immeasureably to the thread.

studiorat

WakeUp wrote: »

I know all sorts of sh1t you dont and never will look about him, say he knows a good ssshhhh secret or two.

Come on then Wakey, prove it....

show us how you know stuff we never will look about him.

WakeUp

Absolam wrote: »

Well done Wakeup; erudite, considered and concise. You've added immeasureably to the thread.

Thanks:). I do my bit. So whats going on with his medals did he earn them in the trenches fighting the good fight?.....

Torakx

For all we know that could be the man the runs the city of dublin,Id be careful if i were you

WakeUp

studiorat wrote: »

Come on then Wakey, prove it....

show us how you know stuff we never will look about him.

Prove what. Youve quoted me out of context with well rabble. Ive nothing to prove.

WakeUp

Torakx wrote: »

For all we know that could be the man the runs the city of dublin,Id be careful if i were you

I can moonwalk too:D. I challenge Georgy to a face off maybe brother Abso can set it up:)

starskey77

its all the cloak and dagger the secrecy thats appealing to many
like everyone says they do a lot for charity live and let live