How are murdered bodies ever found?

Opinicus · 06-01-2011 01:28AM

The Joggers, it's always the Joggers.

jill_valentine · 06-01-2011 01:51AM

Bear in mind that most murder victims are missed by somebody, so somebody will be looking for a body. Particularly if the deed itself was messy enough to leave clues that it was indeed a murder, rather than just a mysterious disappearance. Disposing of a body well isn't easy, and every step you take in doing so risks exposing yourself to discovery.

A decomposing body, as noted more scientifically above, honks something fierce. I don't know if you've ever been around a dead animal, but you can smell them from a very long way off and there is no mistaking it. I know of a case where a suicide victim was discovered after a few days because the odour could be detected from the road.

Most murderers act in haste, and don't have time to hide a body properly. They just want to buy enough time to leave the scene, and may discover later that returning to tidy up isn't possible. Digging a six foot hole is a huge undertaking, it takes a lot of labour and time. Roots, rocks, pipes etc get in your way a few feet down, and deeper than that you hit the hard pan, which is horrible. Not everybody has a decent shovel - nevermind a pickaxe and crowbar - to hand. If they don't, they have to buy some; right after somebody known to them has disappeared in suspicious circumstances.

Even if they do manage to dig the big hole, they leave behind a very suspicious looking patch of ground. Obviously, you don't want to bury it somewhere connected to you; the patio didn't work for the Jordaches and it sure as hell won't work for you. And digging in virgin soil is very hard work, as noted, it takes a long time, and it's not something you want to be discovered doing in the park or somewhere. There aren't many spaces in Ireland where you can spent the day digging a person-shaped hole uninterrupted, and those spaces are diminishing all the time. Anywhere easily accessible to you is easily accessible to somebody else, and you have a stiff, stinking, leaky cadaver to bring along too. Working at night might keep you hidden; or it can make it far more apparent, from quite a distance, that somebody is doing something weird by torchlight when they should be tucked up in their beds.

The IRA used to be fond of burying people on beaches, but this isn't risk free either. Any beach you can get to easily enough to bring a body to it is just as easily accessed by people with RC planes and fishing rods. The very nature of a seaside means the shoreline is changing all the time. What was six foot deep when you dug it might be a couple of feet closer to the surface after only a few tides - perfect for a curious dog or some very noisy birds to discover.

Dumping a body at sea, assuming you have boat handy, is a lot more haphazard than you might think too. Depending on the stage of it's decomposition, a human body - or at least parts of it - can be surprisingly bouyant, and currents can be stubbornly unpredictable. Feet in particular have a tendency to reappear, even miles and years away from the crime, and DNA identification means there's an ever-increasing chance that the foot's owner can be named at some stage.

Burning a body is very, very tricky because a human body has a high water content. Doing this takes an awful lot of fuel, and makes an awful lot of strinking smoke. You need to generate huge temperatures for a long time, even professional crematoria have to use grinders to deal with some of the more stubborn remains.

The moral of the story is that it's not as easy as you might think to hide a body well. It's even harder to keep it hidden when somebody's looking for it. It's possible to do both, but then, the really good ideas aren't going to be known for us to talk about, are they?

I hope this post helps you consider consulting a marriage counsellor.

MagicMarker · 06-01-2011 01:58AM

Bath + acid = win

the_syco · 06-01-2011 02:02AM

kerryman12 wrote: »

How many times have you heard this phrase on the news;
a man/woman out walking a dog found the body

Dear diary,
Hoomans brought me for a walk. Got peckish, but luckily I caught the whiff of something dead. A bit past its date, but by gawd, I hadn't eaten since the hoomans fed me last night! So I led the hoomans to it, but they wouldn't let me nyom nyom it

They only let me have a quick sniff. Couldn't even mark it as mine. I just know the terrier will take it. Little f**ker is always taking my treats when I'm not looking.

Dog

dubtom · 06-01-2011 02:07AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Bear in mind that most murder victims are missed by somebody, so somebody will be looking for a body. Particularly if the deed itself was messy enough to leave clues that it was indeed a murder, rather than just a mysterious disappearance. Disposing of a body well isn't easy, and every step you take in doing so risks exposing yourself to discovery.

A decomposing body, as noted more scientifically above, honks something fierce. I don't know if you've ever been around a dead animal, but you can smell them from a very long way off and there is no mistaking it. I know of a case where a suicide victim was discovered after a few days because the odour could be detected from the road.

Most murderers act in haste, and don't have time to hide a body properly. They just want to buy enough time to leave the scene, and may discover later that returning to tidy up isn't possible. Digging a six foot hole is a huge undertaking, it takes a lot of labour and time. Roots, rocks, pipes etc get in your way a few feet down, and deeper than that you hit the hard pan, which is horrible. Not everybody has a decent shovel - nevermind a pickaxe and crowbar - to hand. If they don't, they have to buy some; right after somebody known to them has disappeared in suspicious circumstances.

Even if they do manage to dig the big hole, they leave behind a very suspicious looking patch of ground. Obviously, you don't want to bury it somewhere connected to you; the patio didn't work for the Jordaches and it sure as hell won't work for you. And digging in virgin soil is very hard work, as noted, it takes a long time, and it's not something you want to be discovered doing in the park or somewhere. There aren't many spaces in Ireland where you can spent the day digging a person-shaped hole uninterrupted, and those spaces are diminishing all the time. Anywhere easily accessible to you is easily accessible to somebody else, and you have a stiff, stinking, leaky cadaver to bring along too. Working at night might keep you hidden; or it can make it far more apparent, from quite a distance, that somebody is doing something weird by torchlight when they should be tucked up in their beds.

The IRA used to be fond of burying people on beaches, but this isn't risk free either. Any beach you can get to easily enough to bring a body to it is just as easily accessed by people with RC planes and fishing rods. The very nature of a seaside means the shoreline is changing all the time. What was six foot deep when you dug it might be a couple of feet closer to the surface after only a few tides - perfect for a curious dog or some very noisy birds to discover.

Dumping a body at sea, assuming you have boat handy, is a lot more haphazard than you might think too. Depending on the stage of it's decomposition, a human body - or at least parts of it - can be surprisingly bouyant, and currents can be stubbornly unpredictable. Feet in particular have a tendency to reappear, even miles and years away from the crime, and DNA identification means there's an ever-increasing chance that the foot's owner can be named at some stage.

Burning a body is very, very tricky because a human body has a high water content. Doing this takes an awful lot of fuel, and makes an awful lot of strinking smoke. You need to generate huge temperatures for a long time, even professional crematoria have to use grinders to deal with some of the more stubborn remains.

The moral of the story is that it's not as easy as you might think to hide a body well. It's even harder to keep it hidden when somebody's looking for it. It's possible to do both, but then, the really good ideas aren't going to be known for us to talk about, are they?

I hope this post helps you consider consulting a marriage counsellor.

Tldr

ScumLord · 06-01-2011 02:08AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Bath + acid = win

Depends how cheap the bath is. Could make things much worse.

Ickle Magoo · 06-01-2011 02:08AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Bath + acid = win

Except if the acid is strong enough to break down bone - it's also strong enough to burn through the bath....not that I've thought about it loike....

<.<

>.>

talla10 · 06-01-2011 02:09AM

javaboy wrote: »

If I learned anything from Casino, it's that you dig the hole before you commit the murder.

Unless some amataur stumbles across your freshly dug grave and places their victim instead!!Ya think its annoying having a car park space swiped??If only you knew how annoying it is, 4am on a cold tuesday, next to a body, full of blood, in work at 9am and you have to dig a whole new grave, from scratch, go home shower dispose of evidence shower and then go to work!!

Sometimes i almost wish i had just stayed in!!

jill_valentine · 06-01-2011 02:11AM

Getting hold of that much acid without raising a few eyebrows isn't easy, nor is keeping it all in one place while it does it's thing, and it certainly won't be safe.

CrazyRabbit · 06-01-2011 02:15AM

Feed the body to starving pigs. Crush the bones with sledgehammer. Also, if you leave bones in vinegar, they go soft & are easily cut up.

BTW, does anyone have any pigs for sale?

Guy:Incognito · 06-01-2011 02:16AM

"cadaver dogs can also be used by crime units to find areas where a cadaver might have been buried, stored, or dismembered"

ie, the boot of a Portugese rental car.

wyndham · 06-01-2011 02:19AM

Keep it in the freezer and eat a little bit every day. Wouldn't take too long unless you've killed a fat person. Could make some nice mince dishes. Fry the kidneys, liver and brains. Have the ribs in barbecue sauce.
Kebabs from the leg meat.

Mrmoe · 06-01-2011 02:21AM

A good deep bog hole is the only place to dump a body, no digging, isolated spot and no one is going to find it for a very long time. :cool:

ScumLord · 06-01-2011 02:24AM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Feed the body to starving pigs. Crush the bones with sledgehammer. Also, if you leave bones in vinegar, they go soft & are easily cut up.

BTW, does anyone have any pigs for sale?

I can sell you a pig in pieces that you can assemble yourself at your convenience..

irish_goat · 06-01-2011 02:26AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Dumping a body at sea, assuming you have boat handy, is a lot more haphazard than you might think too. Depending on the stage of it's decomposition, a human body - or at least parts of it - can be surprisingly bouyant, and currents can be stubbornly unpredictable. Feet in particular have a tendency to reappear, even miles and years away from the crime, and DNA identification means there's an ever-increasing chance that the foot's owner can be named at some stage.

Big, thick canvas sack + weights in sack + holes in sack so fish can swim in and eat the evidence = Problem solved.

af_thefragile · 06-01-2011 02:27AM

irish_goat wrote: »

Big, thick canvas sack + weights in sack + holes in sack so fish can swim in and eat the evidence = Problem solved.

All of Dexter's bodies were found though. So I don't think it works too well...

Jesus Wept · 06-01-2011 02:33AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Bath + acid = win

Takes a ridic amount of acid and time too.
That's if it wouldn't kill your bath and your pipes and leave a pretty obvious trail that something ****ed up was going on in your house.

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Feed the body to starving pigs. Crush the bones with sledgehammer. Also, if you leave bones in vinegar, they go soft & are easily cut up.

BTW, does anyone have any pigs for sale?

That'd be fine for farmers with starving pigs. Not so easy for us city folk.

What about just cutting bits up and leaving it in various people's bins?

Or down a manhole.

....drain the blood, cut up small, drop in a manhole.

chicken fingers · 06-01-2011 02:33AM

Great post Jill Valentine, true mind of a serial killer here folks!

If I HAD to keep the body whole I would probably go with dumping it at sea.This is going to be difficult of course as you need access to a boat at night preferably.
It should not float if you wrap it up in heavy heavy chains really well.
If this was too difficult, I would probably wrap up the limbs, head, torso in bin bags and duct tape. Lay down plastic, and cut everything down to size with a hatchet or cleaver.
Its going to be easier to bury a bunch of limbs than a whole body. Also you can make 3 or 4 trips to the car from the scene of the crime with just smallish bags instead of lugging a corpse.
Then dig a hole, far away from trails etc. 4 feet is about half as difficult as 6 feet, and bags of arms and heads are going to be smaller than a whole corpse so the hole wont have to be too long either!
And definitely agree with "dig the hole before you kill the guy"!!

Or you could get a couple of strong duffel bags, load em up with rocks and the dismembered body and dump it out at sea.

Ickle Magoo · 06-01-2011 02:40AM

Messy though - bodies have a lot of fluids and the more you are in contact with the body parts, the more likely you are to leave forensic evidence. I think most bodies are dumped because the killer deems the body being found less important than the ever growing risk of them being connected to that body...and dumping bodies at sea, meh, they rot and seep and find a way onto a handy current...

Jesus Wept · 06-01-2011 02:41AM

With that many trips you are just increasing the chance of being seen massively, and it's pretty unlikely that you won't be seen regardless.

Also, who has access to a boat? If you hire one, then there is a record of you hiring a boat, if any suspicion falls on you whatsoever, they are going to be all over that.

Killer Pigeon · 06-01-2011 02:41AM

A dead body detector usually.

amacca · 06-01-2011 02:45AM

wyndham wrote: »

Keep it in the freezer and eat a little bit every day. Wouldn't take too long unless you've killed a fat person. Could make some nice mince dishes. Fry the kidneys, liver and brains. Have the ribs in barbecue sauce.
Kebabs from the leg meat.

And a nice Chianti?

Senna · 06-01-2011 02:45AM

I have dug about four 6ft deep holes at various locations within a 10 miles radius of my home, should i ever kill someone i have these waiting.
Its the perfect plan, all i need now is a victim.

Canis Lupus · 06-01-2011 02:45AM

In the city without a car and flatsharing it'd be impossible. If I lived on my own in Kerry and I had the stomach for it it be drain blood, chop into many many parts and dispose of them around the place (plenty remote areas where I'm from). Only caveat would be if the person was local keeping the bodyparts in the freezer would be a risk I think.

Amazotheamazing · 06-01-2011 02:46AM

Most murdered bodies that are found are found at the site of the murder I would have thought? The ones murdered by gangs generally are left where they were shot, spouses usually (for some silly reason) try to fake a break-in, suicide etc.

I suppose some percentage of the people missing in Ireland are the ones who were murdered but were never found. I wouldn't think it's that impossible to get rid of a body if you had planned the disposal before you actually killed someone. How hard can it be to arrange a boat, a tarpaulin, duct tape and weights? Ireland has plenty of places where it's too deep for most divers to dive to. I think (in England anyhow), the Police are only allowed dive to 48 metres, find a body of water that's 55+ m's deep and no one's going to get to the body. Visibility at that depth would be very restricted so it's unlikely that a diver at 48m's would see something at 55 m's. I'd just hit the west coast and head a mile or so out, it's a big ocean, who's going to find it?

Jesus Wept · 06-01-2011 02:47AM

So it's much easier to kill someone if you are a farmer or own a crematorium.

Amazotheamazing · 06-01-2011 02:48AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

With that many trips you are just increasing the chance of being seen massively, and it's pretty unlikely that you won't be seen regardless.

Also, who has access to a boat? If you hire one, then there is a record of you hiring a boat, if any suspicion falls on you whatsoever, they are going to be all over that.

If you're committed enough to kill someone, surely you're committed enough to get a cheap boat?

mikemac · 06-01-2011 02:50AM

If you have access to a farm, a body will decompose in a slurry pit.
However, with new regulations, they are often in tanks and difficult to access.
But in the old days, it was wide open and you could throw anything in and it's could be months and months before it's every touched

Also, there are abandoned mine shafts all over Ireland. The Silvermines in Tipp is a huge complex and shut down decades ago.
There is no security out there, just a few padlocked gates

Jesus Wept · 06-01-2011 02:53AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If you're committed enough to kill someone, surely you're committed enough to get a cheap boat?

Getting a boat isn't a problem. I think you are neglecting the trail you are leaving by hiring/borrowing/stealing/buying a boat for such a purpose.

You have no history of using boats (for example), someone disappears, you hire a boat a few days later for the first time with no experience relating to boats but you just want to go for a drive a few miles out.

I think that will be noticed.

wyndham · 06-01-2011 02:54AM

Could leave it on a high speed section of train track. It'll be too much of a mess after being run over to be of any use in terms of finding a cause of death, etc.

How are murdered bodies ever found?

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