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Views of Irish political parties on LGBT issues

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  • 03-01-2011 8:23pm
    #1
    Grassroots_FF
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭


    Fianna Fáil are becoming very pro-gay these days if any of you people want to get involved in politics


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    #2
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Grassroots_FF wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil are becoming very pro-gay these days if any of you people want to get involved in politics

    They're also pro corruption.:pac:


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    #3
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,126 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Grassroots_FF wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil are becoming very pro-gay these days if any of you people want to get involved in politics

    Bit late to the party, that and when its dying.

    Also, its a front - FF will never be properly "pro gay", only when desperation takes hold. Centre right politics and gay rights do not mix.

    Also, what relevance does this have to the thread?


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    #4
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Grassroots_FF wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil are becoming very pro-gay these days if any of you people want to get involved in politics
    So are Labour and they're more likely to be in a position to effect change after the next general election. :)


    (Not an endorsement for Labour in any way, shape, or form, btw.)


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    #5
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    MYOB wrote: »
    Bit late to the party, that and when its dying.

    Also, its a front - FF will never be properly "pro gay", only when desperation takes hold. Centre right politics and gay rights do not mix.

    Also, what relevance does this have to the thread?

    They're desperate for votes so now they're compromising their "traditional values" to appeal to the gay vote. Oh and the Fianna Fail government were not very helpful to Lydia Foyle and all transgenders who wish to go as far as fully transitioning. The E.U. had to step in.


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    #6
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,126 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Azure_sky wrote: »
    They're desperate for votes so now they're compromising their "traditional values" to appeal to the gay vote. Oh and the Fianna Fail government were not very helpful to Lydia Foyle and all transgenders who wish to go as far as fully transitioning. The E.U. had to step in.

    They've lost so much ground to Labour that they're trying to go after one of the bits of the vote that has been mostly Labour's for 30 years. Pathetic.


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    #7
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    (split from the other thread)


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    #8
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Thanks for splitting the thread, RK.


    I think with the looming general election, it might be an idea to discuss the various party positions. Despite being a troll, the OP is at least partially correct: FF Youth have allegedly softened up greatly on gay marriage. Not sure how long that'll take to translate into actual TDs though!

    On Fine Gael, I went to see a prominent member of the party last year, but she told me in no uncertain terms that same-sex marriage was not "on the agenda" (her words). She kept going on about people not being ready for it, despite my telling her about recent polls suggesting that 60% of the electorate up and down the country have no problem with it. After more questions from me, it was evident that what she wanted to say was that it would upset FG's conservative base.


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    #9
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Single issue politics leads to nothing but trouble. I'd like gay marriage, but I'd also like the odd functioning school to put the kids I'd be able to adopt in :S Labour, no matter how LGBT friendly they might be, are too populist.


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    #10
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Aard wrote: »
    Thanks for splitting the thread, RK.



    On Fine Gael, I went to see a prominent member of the party last year, but she told me in no uncertain terms that same-sex marriage was not "on the agenda" (her words). She kept going on about people not being ready for it, despite my telling her about recent polls suggesting that 60% of the electorate up and down the country have no problem with it. After more questions from me, it was evident that what she wanted to say was that it would upset FG's conservative base.

    Fine Gael are even more backward and pro profit over people than Fianna Fail, and just as inept. Don't forget F.G. political ideology is "Christian democracy" aka Christian theocracy.

    http://www.parties-and-elections.de/ireland.html

    For me Labour is the only one worth voting for.


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    #11
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Labour will be a disaster in absolutely every other area though. Their economic policies are a joke. But then all the parties are jokes atm :S


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    #12
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Labour will be a disaster in absolutely every other area though. Their economic policies are a joke. But then all the parties are jokes atm :S

    In the eyes of a non socialist perhaps. Still, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'll do my best to stay out of this thread. Politics angry the blood.:pac:


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    #13
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Single issue politics leads to nothing but trouble.
    Absolutely.


    I'm not advocating any particular party, just trying to get a fix on what each of them actually think IRT rights, and almost more specifically the accompanying legislation. I wouldn't want this thread to turn into a "I'm voting for X" thread, more to discuss specifically the LGBT aspects of their policies.


    IIRC, the Greens, Sinn Féin, and the Socialists are also pro marriage equality.


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    #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,022 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Firstly Crayolo - Labours private members bill on civil unions in 2006 included adoption within the Bill -

    Secondly on the one hand you accuse Labour of being populist then on the other you say our economic policies are a joke - those are completely contradictory statements - Either Labour is populist or has economic policies you disagree with and also - what do you mean by the economic policies are a joke? Could you explain in more detail what you mean?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,022 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Oh by the way - Parties are writing their general election manifestos at the moment so you can check them all out when they are published and see what is proposed in terms of LGBT rights

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #16
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Labour want to please everyone. That is impossible. Going by his late late interview and the proposed budget on the website, he wanted to fabricate 6 billion out of air. No cuts in hospitals, no cuts in child benefit, no cuts in education, no cuts in pensions, no cuts anywhere but tiny things that save fractions of what we needed to save. But all of that is irrelevant because the the IMF will now decide how we handle our money and this thread is about LGBT stances.


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    #17
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,022 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Can I ask the other moderators if its ok to discuss non LGBT issues in this thread?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #18
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Go for it.


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    #19
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I think there are ample threads to discuss general policies of parties, but none dedicated to LGBT issues. The thread title is pretty clear too, I'd have thought.


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    #20
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,126 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Labour want to please everyone. That is impossible. Going by his late late interview and the proposed budget on the website, he wanted to fabricate 6 billion out of air. No cuts in hospitals, no cuts in child benefit, no cuts in education, no cuts in pensions, no cuts anywhere but tiny things that save fractions of what we needed to save. But all of that is irrelevant because the the IMF will now decide how we handle our money and this thread is about LGBT stances.

    I work closely with the HSE (thankfully not IN the HSE) and could tell you how to find at least 1.5Bn a year without touching front line services. Repeat that across every other agency/department...


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    #21
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,022 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Aard wrote: »
    I think there are ample threads to discuss general policies of parties, but none dedicated to LGBT issues. The thread title is pretty clear too, I'd have thought.

    OK fair enough - I kinda just wanted to respond to Crayolostereo but I'll stay out of getting into party politics economic policies

    I don't necessarily agree Aard - we have discussed these issues before

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055905848
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055683001
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055554238
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055087501
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055002368
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=169323
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163247

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #22
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    I'm not a socialist, but socially I am extremely Liberal.

    Where are the Progressive Democrats when you need them?

    I want to vote for Labour for the social stance, and I want to vote for Fine Gael for their economic stance.


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    #23
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Were the PDs that LGBT-friendly?

    ==

    After looking at the Sinn Féin site, I actually can't find anything explicitly stating that they're in favour of gay marriage. But it seems to be generally accepted that they are, and I've heard it from an SF councillor too...


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    #24
    Craebear
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭Craebear


    Labour would be the closest to pro lgbt but still nothing to write home about. FF/FG backbenchers and core supporters would probably faint at the idea of Gay marriage being the stupid paddys they are.

    Do we even have a single gay elected TD? I cannot think of one.


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    #25
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    Craebear wrote: »
    Labour would be the closest to pro lgbt but still nothing to write home about. FF/FG backbenchers and core supporters would probably faint at the idea of Gay marriage being the stupid paddys they are.

    Do we even have a single gay elected TD? I cannot think of one.



    On that note, I was reading recently that Norris is unlikely to be a 4th candidate for the Presidency. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true then that is most unfortunate!


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    #26
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    I thought you all might find this interest. The politcal compass test.


    http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


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    #27
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Economic Left/Right: -7.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74


    printablegraph?ec=-7.12&soc=-1.74

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7.12&soc=-1.74


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    #28
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,126 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    On that note, I was reading recently that Norris is unlikely to be a 4th candidate for the Presidency. Can anyone confirm this? If it is true then that is most unfortunate!

    No existing party will nominate him and there aren't enough independent TDs and Senators to collect together - and at that, a lot of them wouldn't nominate him anyway

    As goes "4th" candidate, there is every possibility that we could have either an outright bloc (SF) or a combined left (SF+ULA) bloc large enough to nominate a candidate, so there could be 4 Oireachtas nominated candidates to begin with. You need 20 Oireachtas members to nominate someone, FG, LAB and FF are guaranteed that. SF alone could just scrape it, with ULA likely to get at least 4 seats there's probably 20 between them (they may even manage to get a senator or two). Its not that likely that Norris would *accept* a SF or SF/ULA nomination and anyway, Gerry Adams wants to run if SF can nominate him.

    This leaves him with the county council route, which has previously only ever nominated very conservative candidates. Most councils in Ireland are controlled by FG either outright or as the lead party in a coalition so they are unlikely to nominate someone like Norris. And you need 5 county or city councils (there's 34 IIRC) to nominate you

    He still has chances, but they're getting slimmer.


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    #29
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,126 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Craebear wrote: »
    Do we even have a single gay elected TD? I cannot think of one.

    A senior opposition party TD for Leinster is known within political circles to be but is unlikely to 'come out' to the nation; additionally another senior opposition TD was investigated in the 1990s for suspected dalliances with rentboys...

    However, there is a second openly gay senator, Dominic Hannigan (Labour) who came within 2000 votes of getting a seat in 2007. Said seat is FF and under extreme threat from Labour so we should have one by April.


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    #30
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    Azure_sky wrote: »
    Economic Left/Right: -7.12
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74


    printablegraph?ec=-7.12&soc=-1.74

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7.12&soc=-1.74

    You Communist You! :P

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=2.88&soc=-5.33

    Like I thought, my test revealed pretty much the Progressive Democrats but even more socially liberal.


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    #31
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Grassroots_FF wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil are becoming very pro-gay these days if any of you people want to get involved in politics

    Should gay people not vote according to the best candidates instead of the party that is simply 'pro-gay.?


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