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Phd vs Work Experience

  • 29-12-2010 12:23AM
    #1
    dilbert2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 364 ✭✭dilbert2


    I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go for the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly regarding the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

    To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

    Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

    What is a better option? 26 votes

    Doing a PhD
    0% 0 votes
    4 years work experience + pay
    100% 26 votes


«1

Comments

  • #2
    NoseyMike2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭NoseyMike2010


    Personally I think work experience is better ... Don't expect the big bucks if you do a Phd! Thats my opinion anyway!


  • #3
    Joyce Country
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Joyce Country


    asking this on AH? :pac:

    It's back to pre-school you need!


  • #4
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Stay in school as long as daddy will support you man! Its hard out here even for a scientist


  • #5
    bleg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭bleg


    Ha! Where are you going to get a job?


  • #6
    muboop1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭muboop1


    MORE INFO REQUIRED

    What industry do you want to work in?

    What job do you want?

    ETC...


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  • #7
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,343 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    I suggest working. It seems like so many people are doing Phds that the qualification is becomming less impressive. Where as industry experience is getting rarer. So if you can work then I'd say do


  • #8
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,973 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    bleg wrote: »
    Ha! Where are you going to get a job?

    Just like all the other college graduates, he'l have to get work in B&Q or tescos or something. Flip burgers for a few years.


  • #9
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

    To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

    Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

    Well, I'd imagine that a PhD is going to be a major plus if you want a career in science, I know it's essential for research positions. I'm in the middle of a science degree myself. Also, the AH forum isn't the best place to get advice on the issue. Go to the postgraduates forum or even the forum that closely represents your chosen field, such as the Physics & Chemistry, biology or mathematics forums for better advise.


  • #10
    Oranage2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    Do what you want man, do you have the money to do a PHD? Try get a job and if you can't find a job then do the PHD, if i was in your shoes I'd pick working everytime.


  • #11
    Saila
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    feck that OP you could just go and write comics on the piss takes of different industry related jobs and call it Dilbert..there I even gave you a catchy name for it, remember me when you make your millions :)


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  • #12
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    PhD is probably worthless unless you want to go into academics.

    There are exceptions however. I am starting a PhD in the next 2 years because I want to publish a concept that is new and sort of challenges the current legal system in a certain area. Sure it might not do anything or come to anything, but at least I can get my name out there (very important in my work) and if things start to change (and I think they will) I will be on the ground floor of the revolution! :D


  • #13
    KeithM89_old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,806 ✭✭✭✭KeithM89_old


    Do a PHD, have you never wanted to be in a restaurant when some woman starts choking, then when someone asks 'Is there a doctor in the house' you can stand up and say you are! :p


  • #14
    anniehoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭anniehoo


    Although i dont have a PhD myself, i know a lot of people who have and have found it to be a disadvantage in terms of lack of experience when trying to get employment in industry rather than academia but an absolute necessity for academia related posts. I have one friend with a degree,masters and PhD and i wouldve gotten the job over her as she literally didnt have the experience in the particular area she applied for, it was also Science related.

    PhDs are unbelieveably specific and tbh very monotonous. I turned one down as i wanted to concentrate on improving my transferrable skills rather than boxing myself into just one area.It depends on how old you are too. If you are early 20s, finishing at 27/28 is ok but ive seen people only finishing in their early 30s with literally no employment history under their belt.


  • #15
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Is there funding available for the PhD? Can you actually get a job in the real world?
    Those are two important factors.

    If you can get a job, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, a funded PhD isn't a bad way to spend a few years, but if you already have a Masters, then the difference in the two qualifications will be fairly negligible. Experience would definitely be more worthwhile than the extra couple of letters.


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its not a straight forward question to answer. For a start you will get paid doing a phD (and pay no tax on it) so you need to factor that in, it will be less than working but the way wages have been going graduate starting wages after tax are not massively more.

    There are plenty of jobs in industry that require a phD depending of course what exact area of science you are in, but there will most likely always be a point you reach where you cannot progress more with out having a phD regardless of how much experience you gain, you will also start on a much higher wage with the phD this also has to be taken into account.

    On the other hand a doing phD is a tough and at times painful existence and again depending on your exact area of interest may not give you a huge advantage while in others like mine (also science) a phD is more or less essential.

    Also in my area anyway 4 years doing a phD also count as 4 years work experience as doing the phD is essentially working in the area.

    Also from someone who plans on finishing in the phD inside 4 years having skipped doing a masters I would think that if the PhD follows on from the masters you should be able to get it done in 3 years. I would put people who work with me who have a masters a year ahead of myself as they already had a very good background in the stuff they are doing.

    In anycase anyone who says a phD is a waste hasn't a clue, you are always better with one than without one and it puts you ahead of most people when applying for a job.


  • #17
    the keen edge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭the keen edge


    Joyce Country wrote: »
    asking this on AH? :pac:

    It's back to pre-school you need!

    Well to be fair it's the OP first post, so how would they know what the craic with AH's is?

    4 years for a Phd?. What field of science are you studying?


  • #18
    dilbert2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 364 ✭✭dilbert2


    KeithM89 wrote: »
    Do a PHD, have you never wanted to be in a restaurant when some woman starts choking, then when someone asks 'Is there a doctor in the house' you can stand up and say you are! :p

    Ha ha smartarse! :p


  • #19
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    And don't listen to people on here who say PhD's are worthless, they're not especially science, technology and engineering based doctorates. Many finance companies actively seek PhD's in these field because they have experience with research and finding out new ways of doing things. For example, a physics/mathematics Ph.D would probably have the nohow in deriving complex mathematical expressions from scratch, much more than a finance/business bachelor. It would be easier for these individuals to derive complex financial derivatives.


  • #20
    dilbert2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 364 ✭✭dilbert2


    muboop1 wrote: »
    MORE INFO REQUIRED

    What industry do you want to work in?

    What job do you want?

    ETC...

    I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.


  • #21
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    OisinT wrote: »
    I want to publish a concept that is new and sort of challenges the current legal system in a certain area.

    Yeah,me too..its called "get off your high-horse and stop charging exhorbitant rates for a piss-poor service"

    A friend of mine needed a Family Home Declaration to close on the sale of a new house..not knowing any better she approached a solicitor in Diblin 2..he quoted a price of 300 euros.

    when she spoke to me i remembered a FHD on my computer,i printed it off and she got it signed by a Commisioner Of Oaths on the quays for 13 euro!

    The legal system is rife with overcharging,bullying and incompetence..another area of the state that badly needs overhauling.


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  • #22
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

    Yay, I'm doing physics too!

    Why don't you do a h.dip in computer science and then a masters in computer science. Probably will be the easiest conversion although I'm sure you've already touched on plenty of computer science. Doing a Ph.D in physics/computer science will help, I mean you'll be using plenty of programming to model various systems which is a sign of creativity and will kinda count as experience.


  • #23
    PK2008
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

    If you want to work in the IT sector then just go in with the masters, if you want to research a specific area to the point that you can add something to existing academic literature/research then do a PhD.

    Don't do a PhD just to add it to your CV, do a PhD because you have a genuine interest/passion in the subject and believe you can contribute to academia


  • #24
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    PK2008 wrote: »
    Don't do a PhD just to add it to your CV, do a PhD because you have a genuine interest/passion in the subject and believe you can contribute to academia

    Or so you can avoid working for a living?


  • #25
    alphaLaura
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58 ✭✭alphaLaura


    I'm doing a PhD in physics and I truly believe that if you are doing a science subject, getting a PhD is a very, very sensible option regardless of whether you are aiming for industry, research or academia.

    I will be moving towards a career area which is semi industrial and semi research based and was advised to complete my PhD first for a few different reasons:

    (1) The economy is sh!te atm, studying your way out (with funding/scholarship) is a pretty efficient use of your time. Jobs are not plentiful right now.

    (2) Many career options for science graduates specify some postgraduate degree as a minimum but in reality, employers are looking for highly qualified candidates and the more education you have on your CV, the better, if you are a first-time high-end jobseeker.

    (3) PhD courses are frustrating and rewarding. But the rewards are worth it. Lots of travel opportunities and flexible hours!


  • #26
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    If you can't come up with something fundamentally original(not based off existing technology for instance) do a new PhD, otherwise, get into position as a small cog in the corporate machine. You should only consider a PhD for VERY specific reasons. Society only needs a certain number of PhD's. With the way a typical bachelor degree is going, I hope PhD's are few and far between. Saturation == less talent.

    I could never see myself going for a PhD, but I would never knock someone provided they aren't doing it to avoid a job.


  • #27
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I suggest working. It seems like so many people are doing Phds that the qualification is becomming less impressive. Where as industry experience is getting rarer. So if you can work then I'd say do

    I'd imagine there's a world of difference between the number of people who 'do a PhD', as in start one, and the number who complete it. I'd love to see the statistics, which seem to be elusive.


  • #28
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    Degsy wrote: »
    Or so you can avoid working for a living?
    Naikon wrote: »
    I could never see myself going for a PhD, but I would never knock someone provided they aren't doing it to avoid a job.

    Ahem. Just to correct the rather odd misconception here; people who complete a PhD work, and work very hard usually, to achieve this. Furthermore, they do this work for no pay and in isolation. Further still, if we assume that they're of at least average intelligence, it makes no sense to think that they'd want to work for nothing on a PhD in order to avoid working for money outside of it.


  • #29
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go for the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly regarding the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

    To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

    Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

    I just keyed in 'PhD' in the 'Start Search' of my laptop, opened my PhD, chose a random page, and another random page, and another, and I have to say it's still the proudest personal achievement of my life. It's great to be able to have a magnum opus, to have a physical sign of your sweat, toil, commitment, dedication and ultimate triumph over the isolation of PhD land. It's something nobody can ever take away from you. It's yours, and you've successfully defended it at the highest academic level.

    Nevertheless, if you're going to do it, make sure you're focused on how it will enhance your career. Do not, under any circumstances, start a PhD simply because you're interested or passionate about the area. That's madness. Also, don't expect to become a tenure-track permanent lecturer. That pipe-dream is torturing many a post-doc with regrets and disillusionment as we write.


  • #30
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,523 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    dilbert2 wrote: »
    I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

    I work in the IT sector with someone who has a (fairly fresh) physics PhD. She does the admin.

    As an employer a non-domain specific PhD adds little to a CV, although possibly demonstrates commitment to working for nothing for a long time.

    I have worked with people who put PhD CVs straight in the bin.


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  • #31
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Degsy wrote: »
    Yeah,me too..its called "get off your high-horse and stop charging exhorbitant rates for a piss-poor service"

    A friend of mine needed a Family Home Declaration to close on the sale of a new house..not knowing any better she approached a solicitor in Diblin 2..he quoted a price of 300 euros.

    when she spoke to me i remembered a FHD on my computer,i printed it off and she got it signed by a Commisioner Of Oaths on the quays for 13 euro!

    The legal system is rife with overcharging,bullying and incompetence..another area of the state that badly needs overhauling.
    Don't know a thing about solicitors so I won't comment.

    I'm talking about law and PhDs so not really sure what your post has to do with anything... anyway, how does someone overhaul a private system?


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