Phd vs Work Experience

dilbert2

I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go for the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly regarding the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

NoseyMike2010

Personally I think work experience is better ... Don't expect the big bucks if you do a Phd! Thats my opinion anyway!

Joyce Country

asking this on AH? :pac:

It's back to pre-school you need!

meditraitor

Stay in school as long as daddy will support you man! Its hard out here even for a scientist

bleg

Ha! Where are you going to get a job?

muboop1

MORE INFO REQUIRED

What industry do you want to work in?

What job do you want?

ETC...

Wompa1

I suggest working. It seems like so many people are doing Phds that the qualification is becomming less impressive. Where as industry experience is getting rarer. So if you can work then I'd say do

fonecrusher1

bleg wrote: »

Ha! Where are you going to get a job?

Just like all the other college graduates, he'l have to get work in B&Q or tescos or something. Flip burgers for a few years.

Killer Pigeon

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

Well, I'd imagine that a PhD is going to be a major plus if you want a career in science, I know it's essential for research positions. I'm in the middle of a science degree myself. Also, the AH forum isn't the best place to get advice on the issue. Go to the postgraduates forum or even the forum that closely represents your chosen field, such as the Physics & Chemistry, biology or mathematics forums for better advise.

Oranage2

Do what you want man, do you have the money to do a PHD? Try get a job and if you can't find a job then do the PHD, if i was in your shoes I'd pick working everytime.

Saila

feck that OP you could just go and write comics on the piss takes of different industry related jobs and call it Dilbert..there I even gave you a catchy name for it, remember me when you make your millions

FreudianSlippers

PhD is probably worthless unless you want to go into academics.

There are exceptions however. I am starting a PhD in the next 2 years because I want to publish a concept that is new and sort of challenges the current legal system in a certain area. Sure it might not do anything or come to anything, but at least I can get my name out there (very important in my work) and if things start to change (and I think they will) I will be on the ground floor of the revolution!

KeithM89_old

Do a PHD, have you never wanted to be in a restaurant when some woman starts choking, then when someone asks 'Is there a doctor in the house' you can stand up and say you are!

anniehoo

Although i dont have a PhD myself, i know a lot of people who have and have found it to be a disadvantage in terms of lack of experience when trying to get employment in industry rather than academia but an absolute necessity for academia related posts. I have one friend with a degree,masters and PhD and i wouldve gotten the job over her as she literally didnt have the experience in the particular area she applied for, it was also Science related.

PhDs are unbelieveably specific and tbh very monotonous. I turned one down as i wanted to concentrate on improving my transferrable skills rather than boxing myself into just one area.It depends on how old you are too. If you are early 20s, finishing at 27/28 is ok but ive seen people only finishing in their early 30s with literally no employment history under their belt.

Ficheall

Is there funding available for the PhD? Can you actually get a job in the real world?
Those are two important factors.

If you can get a job, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, a funded PhD isn't a bad way to spend a few years, but if you already have a Masters, then the difference in the two qualifications will be fairly negligible. Experience would definitely be more worthwhile than the extra couple of letters.

Its not a straight forward question to answer. For a start you will get paid doing a phD (and pay no tax on it) so you need to factor that in, it will be less than working but the way wages have been going graduate starting wages after tax are not massively more.

There are plenty of jobs in industry that require a phD depending of course what exact area of science you are in, but there will most likely always be a point you reach where you cannot progress more with out having a phD regardless of how much experience you gain, you will also start on a much higher wage with the phD this also has to be taken into account.

On the other hand a doing phD is a tough and at times painful existence and again depending on your exact area of interest may not give you a huge advantage while in others like mine (also science) a phD is more or less essential.

Also in my area anyway 4 years doing a phD also count as 4 years work experience as doing the phD is essentially working in the area.

Also from someone who plans on finishing in the phD inside 4 years having skipped doing a masters I would think that if the PhD follows on from the masters you should be able to get it done in 3 years. I would put people who work with me who have a masters a year ahead of myself as they already had a very good background in the stuff they are doing.

In anycase anyone who says a phD is a waste hasn't a clue, you are always better with one than without one and it puts you ahead of most people when applying for a job.

the keen edge

Joyce Country wrote: »

asking this on AH? :pac:

It's back to pre-school you need!

Well to be fair it's the OP first post, so how would they know what the craic with AH's is?

4 years for a Phd?. What field of science are you studying?

dilbert2

KeithM89 wrote: »

Do a PHD, have you never wanted to be in a restaurant when some woman starts choking, then when someone asks 'Is there a doctor in the house' you can stand up and say you are!

Ha ha smartarse!

Killer Pigeon

And don't listen to people on here who say PhD's are worthless, they're not especially science, technology and engineering based doctorates. Many finance companies actively seek PhD's in these field because they have experience with research and finding out new ways of doing things. For example, a physics/mathematics Ph.D would probably have the nohow in deriving complex mathematical expressions from scratch, much more than a finance/business bachelor. It would be easier for these individuals to derive complex financial derivatives.

dilbert2

muboop1 wrote: »

MORE INFO REQUIRED

What industry do you want to work in?

What job do you want?

ETC...

I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

Degsy

OisinT wrote: »

I want to publish a concept that is new and sort of challenges the current legal system in a certain area.

Yeah,me too..its called "get off your high-horse and stop charging exhorbitant rates for a piss-poor service"

A friend of mine needed a Family Home Declaration to close on the sale of a new house..not knowing any better she approached a solicitor in Diblin 2..he quoted a price of 300 euros.

when she spoke to me i remembered a FHD on my computer,i printed it off and she got it signed by a Commisioner Of Oaths on the quays for 13 euro!

The legal system is rife with overcharging,bullying and incompetence..another area of the state that badly needs overhauling.

Killer Pigeon

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

Yay, I'm doing physics too!

Why don't you do a h.dip in computer science and then a masters in computer science. Probably will be the easiest conversion although I'm sure you've already touched on plenty of computer science. Doing a Ph.D in physics/computer science will help, I mean you'll be using plenty of programming to model various systems which is a sign of creativity and will kinda count as experience.

PK2008

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

If you want to work in the IT sector then just go in with the masters, if you want to research a specific area to the point that you can add something to existing academic literature/research then do a PhD.

Don't do a PhD just to add it to your CV, do a PhD because you have a genuine interest/passion in the subject and believe you can contribute to academia

Degsy

PK2008 wrote: »

Don't do a PhD just to add it to your CV, do a PhD because you have a genuine interest/passion in the subject and believe you can contribute to academia

Or so you can avoid working for a living?

alphaLaura

I'm doing a PhD in physics and I truly believe that if you are doing a science subject, getting a PhD is a very, very sensible option regardless of whether you are aiming for industry, research or academia.

I will be moving towards a career area which is semi industrial and semi research based and was advised to complete my PhD first for a few different reasons:

(1) The economy is sh!te atm, studying your way out (with funding/scholarship) is a pretty efficient use of your time. Jobs are not plentiful right now.

(2) Many career options for science graduates specify some postgraduate degree as a minimum but in reality, employers are looking for highly qualified candidates and the more education you have on your CV, the better, if you are a first-time high-end jobseeker.

(3) PhD courses are frustrating and rewarding. But the rewards are worth it. Lots of travel opportunities and flexible hours!

Naikon

If you can't come up with something fundamentally original(not based off existing technology for instance) do a new PhD, otherwise, get into position as a small cog in the corporate machine. You should only consider a PhD for VERY specific reasons. Society only needs a certain number of PhD's. With the way a typical bachelor degree is going, I hope PhD's are few and far between. Saturation == less talent.

I could never see myself going for a PhD, but I would never knock someone provided they aren't doing it to avoid a job.

Dionysus

Wompa1 wrote: »

I suggest working. It seems like so many people are doing Phds that the qualification is becomming less impressive. Where as industry experience is getting rarer. So if you can work then I'd say do

I'd imagine there's a world of difference between the number of people who 'do a PhD', as in start one, and the number who complete it. I'd love to see the statistics, which seem to be elusive.

Dionysus

Degsy wrote: »

Or so you can avoid working for a living?

Naikon wrote: »

I could never see myself going for a PhD, but I would never knock someone provided they aren't doing it to avoid a job.

Ahem. Just to correct the rather odd misconception here; people who complete a PhD work, and work very hard usually, to achieve this. Furthermore, they do this work for no pay and in isolation. Further still, if we assume that they're of at least average intelligence, it makes no sense to think that they'd want to work for nothing on a PhD in order to avoid working for money outside of it.

Dionysus

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing my masters this year and am considering my options for after graduation. I am doing a science subject and am wondering would I be better off going straight into industry to get (a) pay, and (b) experience, or to go for the PhD option - which would be 4 years as I am doing a science subject. I am confused about this, particularly regarding the merits of a PhD beyond the opportunity of gaining a foothold into academia.

To be honest I am basing my future options around pay and nothing else, I do not particularly want to work in a university research department, so i'm wondering would anybody know if a PhD has any benefits or utility in industry, and if so would it be worth the effort? Or would it be better to start work now and get 4 years of pay and the experience during those years?

Is devoting 4 years to undertaking a PhD ever worth it if your motivation is to gain a job in industry as opposed to academia, and does it pay off in the end, particularly given that 4 years is a very long time to be out of the workplace in terms of loss of pay. I am even wondering if you lose out financially in the long term?

I just keyed in 'PhD' in the 'Start Search' of my laptop, opened my PhD, chose a random page, and another random page, and another, and I have to say it's still the proudest personal achievement of my life. It's great to be able to have a magnum opus, to have a physical sign of your sweat, toil, commitment, dedication and ultimate triumph over the isolation of PhD land. It's something nobody can ever take away from you. It's yours, and you've successfully defended it at the highest academic level.

Nevertheless, if you're going to do it, make sure you're focused on how it will enhance your career. Do not, under any circumstances, start a PhD simply because you're interested or passionate about the area. That's madness. Also, don't expect to become a tenure-track permanent lecturer. That pipe-dream is torturing many a post-doc with regrets and disillusionment as we write.

Lumen

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

I work in the IT sector with someone who has a (fairly fresh) physics PhD. She does the admin.

As an employer a non-domain specific PhD adds little to a CV, although possibly demonstrates commitment to working for nothing for a long time.

I have worked with people who put PhD CVs straight in the bin.

FreudianSlippers

Degsy wrote: »

Yeah,me too..its called "get off your high-horse and stop charging exhorbitant rates for a piss-poor service"

A friend of mine needed a Family Home Declaration to close on the sale of a new house..not knowing any better she approached a solicitor in Diblin 2..he quoted a price of 300 euros.

when she spoke to me i remembered a FHD on my computer,i printed it off and she got it signed by a Commisioner Of Oaths on the quays for 13 euro!

The legal system is rife with overcharging,bullying and incompetence..another area of the state that badly needs overhauling.

Don't know a thing about solicitors so I won't comment.

I'm talking about law and PhDs so not really sure what your post has to do with anything... anyway, how does someone overhaul a private system?

Lu Tze

Degsy wrote: »

Yeah,me too..its called "get off your high-horse and stop charging exhorbitant rates for a piss-poor service"

Am i really that surprised that somebody in the PS/CS is still coming out with this!? Give me some of my tax back ye bastards, ye are screwing me with your exorbitant rates and piss poor service :pac:

mconigol

If you wan't to work in academia or industry research then a phd is generally a must in my opinion.

I decided to go straight into a job because it was by far the most financially beneficial. I wasn't sure if I really wanted to do a phd and I didn't want to just do one for the sake of it and rush (or be pushed) into some pointless research area that only really interested some professor or other. I think that if after 4 or 5 years working if I really want to do a phd then I will and I'll actually be able to choose something that really interests me. Whats the hurry?

It all depends on what you want to do really.

Dravokivich

the ole credentials / experience debate...

To be honest, I'd encourage you to go through with the PHD, but even if it isn't a part of your course work, I'd also recommend you to go looking for exprience in places that do the kind of work you are interested in / studying for as well.

It's what I did while I was in college. Learning stuff and actively putting it to work by using the new skills I was learning. It helped to bring myself forward through college over all, getting more from it too.

ScumLord

I don't know nuthin about scientists other than they make a great companion to super heroes.
In the industry that I work in though we do get engineering students and for the most part they're useless in the work place they just don't get work yet and need the experience. It is a very different industry (manufacturing) but experience is worth just as much as college work to a lot of employers.

SeaFields

Just beware OP of going into your research under the impression that you will be out the door with your PhD in the four years.

Research is a strange thing. You may go in under one hypothesis and end up rsearching something completely different (I know I did when completing an MPhil). Things change like supervisors move on, work loads for tutoring get in the way, lab equipment becomes unavailable. I know people whose PhD in science areas took anything up to 8 years.

Very, very satisfying feeling handing in a completed thesis tho.

Best of luck.

El Siglo

If you want to do it op, do it. I'm currently in the first year of my PhD and it's tough going now, and I'm not even fully funded so it's not an easy ride. In saying that I have been able to go abroad more than once in the last three months and it has been pretty good craic as well. A load of people might have degrees but I doubt many would have a PhD.
Surprised this video hasn't been posted yet...;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XViCOAu6UC0

starlit

Work experience is by far the better option if you can get it and have it for a few years then consider doing a PHd. It would be worth doing the PHd when you are in the area of Science, hard not to progress with Science unless you have a Masters at least. Stick with the Masters for the moment. Try and get a bit of work experience if you can if not maybe a PHd be the next best thing. If you could manage working part time and doing the PHd part time might be an option if you are up for it.
Best of luck OP!

syklops

dilbert2 wrote: »

I am doing physics, thinking of applying my education to the IT sector.

For something like Physics, no-one will listen to you unless you are a Ph.D or better.

If you went to a hospital and wanted advice, would you listen to the guy that says, Im not a doctor, but I have LOTs of Work Experience?

For the sciences, stay in college as long as possible.

WhoDat

If it were me, I'd do the PhD simply because there are no jobs to get out there. Also, you never know how things will change in the future regarding qualifications for jobs (particularly the high paying ones, which you seem to be interested in), especially science-based jobs. A PhD may come in very handy for you in the future when you're trying to move up in the world.

tonsiltickler

tbh it all depends on what area your in. A PhD may be seen by employers as over academic in some areas, where it may be a necessity in others. If, as you've said you cant really see yourself doing academic research in the future then i'd say nah to that buddy! I have some friends who are doing them and who really love their area of expertise, but it absolutely drives them to the depths of despair sometimes.

scientific1982

If you're studying science, a PhD is worth it because its so competitive.

mynamesjay

It seems as if everybody arguing in favour of doing a PhD is currently involved in one and so emotionally invested in the decision. Can anyone who's done a PhD and is now in industry comment on its worth?

I personally chose to go into industry instead and I think in the current climate where every tom dick and harry is getting a masters that my decision will pay off. The experience I'm getting now on an unpaid placement will be of greater value then any college course I could have gone back and paid for. There are opportunities out there if your willing to be patient and look.

However for you a conversion masters to give you a stronger backing in IT might be worthwhile, I don't know much about IT myself.

NoseyMike2010

For those involved in Engineering ... Is it worth getting Chartered?

mynamesjay

mynamesjay wrote: »

I personally chose to go into industry instead and I think in the current climate where every tom dick and harry is getting a masters that my decision will pay off. The experience I'm getting now on an unpaid placement will be of greater value then any college course I could have gone back and paid for. There are opportunities out there if your willing to be patient and look.

I dont know what area your in but definitely in science you will never be able to progress past a certain level, you can get to a good level but never into top level jobs without a phD no matter how much experience you have. Also as I said earlier my phD along with most if not all in my institute count as work experience so say when I finish after 4 years or so I will have a phD and 4 years work experience.

Spunge

I know a guy doing a PhD in a science area and its pretty much a 9 to 5 job for him, like working in an office, but yet he's publishing papers etc. So best of both worlds really.

Many of my friends have done them, we all did physics at uni. It seems to be extremely difficult. You have to genuinely really want to do it and be interested in it, because it's only up to you to go in every day and make progress. Writing up the thesis also seems to be very difficult.
Personally I didn't get funding for mine and I'm glad, I think I was too young even after doing a 2-year masters.
I would suggest work experience in the area if you can, and do a phd later on.

wurzlitzer

well.............
will be handing in my thesis next week....
I published papers,
it cost me five years, two relationships, half a dozen friends,

it also turned me into a cynic,

it's was nine to five 2/7days a week
and nine to seven 3/7 days a week

I also had to work 1/4 of my weekends

so i am not:) bitter at all

I have all written and now I do not know what to do with my time....

I would opt for the work experience TBH:)

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

Many of my friends have done them, we all did physics at uni. It seems to be extremely difficult. You have to genuinely really want to do it and be interested in it, because it's only up to you to go in every day and make progress.

This is very true, its a very tough road to go down, having to motivate yourself being one of the big things. Also as its research it has a sort of "my work is never done" feeling about it which can leave you feeling you should work more hours etc even if you already do work hard.

Dwayne Sweet Equipment

Dwayne Sweet Equipment wrote: »

This is very true, its a very tough road to go down, having to motivate yourself being a one of the big things. Also as its research it has a sort of "my work is never done" feeling about which can leave you feeling you should work more hours etc even if you already do work hard.

Yeah, that "I really should be working on my phd" guilty feeling seems to be there 24/7

wurzlitzer

The guilt is the worst....
If I was reading a book or magazine that was not science related the guilt would creep in
constantly looking at the clock...
time time time.....
today I left work actually happy knowing that I did not have to work on any corrections until after my viva
yeah i know there will be a little work to do like the corrections,
but it will be nothing to the 300 pages i have written

actually writing a to do list of the things i have to do in 2011
now that i am finished and have so much free time...

so glad 2010 is over!

My only worry now is with all this free time on my hands, will i become low, people have warned that there is a nothingness after you hand in yer thesis like a void.

ah well it will be an experiment