Irelands inability to cope with snow

RonMexico · 22-12-2010 07:32PM

Maybe people in Dublin now understand what other people had to deal with last year.

mloc · 22-12-2010 07:35PM

It's just a reflection of Irish authorities general ineptitude, coupled with the public's general complacency and stupidity.

Fight_Night · 22-12-2010 07:37PM

A lot of people in Ireland(or boards.ie to be specific) seem to have this deluded view of mainland Europe that they laugh at the thought of traffic being halted or schools closing or public transport being interrupted because of snow. Take Scandinavia for example, who get much worse winters than most of Europe, even they find it hard to deal with the snow at times and they are much much better equipped than us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11897825

CoalBucket · 22-12-2010 07:37PM

It all depends on where u are living and what you are driving. I live in north cork, we got about 3-4 inches of snow on friday night and it hasn't cleared since. It compacted on the road and cause hazardous driving conditions.

I can drive out in my car and once you get onto the main road it's drivable. Unfortunately I drive a van for work which is fully loaded up. It is front wheel drive and is impossible to drive up a hill in icey weather. C'est la vie.

The main roads are gritted and salted in some cases. The council has done their job. The issue I have with the council is the timing of the work they have done. I just wish they could be more proactive, we all knew the cold spell was coming. The should be out when it is snowing and clearing the roads then rather than a day or two later.

rossie1977 · 22-12-2010 07:57PM

you can't compare how north eastern us states and canada deals with snow and how we here deal with snow, cities like buffalo average something like 100 inches of the whitestuff annually, cities in michigan over 140 inches every year so of course they can deal with it better

Einhard · 22-12-2010 08:03PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Has anybody noticed that since the Celtic Tiger immergrated to China we've got a lot of heavy snow? could the 'boom' and no snow be a coincidence? I think not!!!

There was plenty of snow around during the boom years. Just ask a certain G Ryan!

Einhard · 22-12-2010 08:06PM

mloc wrote: »

It's just a reflection of Irish authorities general ineptitude, coupled with the public's general complacency and stupidity.

And the fact that snowfalls like the ones we're experiencing now hadn't occurred in a decade before this year. But hey, let's spend as much time and effort on our once in a decade problem as Massachusetts spends on their several times a year problem. And let's make sure all our buildings are earthquake proof too.

Star Bingo · 22-12-2010 08:11PM

Einhard wrote: »

And the fact that snowfalls like the ones we're experiencing now hadn't occurred in a decade before this year.

my ma says it has not snowed like that since the '60s, nevermind '83 .. is she waffling again?

goose2005 · 22-12-2010 08:15PM

super_furry wrote: »

Because weather events like this happen once every 20 years and it would be an absolute waste of money to buy a fleet of snow ploughs and the rest of it.

Your house burns down once every 1,000 years, is fire insurance a waste of money?

mahamageehad · 22-12-2010 08:15PM

but if we follow the weather trends from the last few years can we not reasonably assume that the winters are getting colder and the summers are getting shítter??

I think we should become a little more prepared eg. compulsory winter tires and people wearing proper snow shoes instead of sliding around in their runners!!!

cc-offe · 22-12-2010 08:22PM

As others have said it doesn't snow often enough for us to justify spending all that money on the snow ploughs etc, it could be 10 or 20 years before we have more snow,
It's the same thing people moaning about airports etc being prepared, then everyone would be complaining that the ticket prices went up.

However during last februarys snow, a few locals went to our local beach and got some sand to grit the areas roads and it was lucky that they did so we could all go back to normal but some of those men are supposed to be getting prosecuted for that now.......ridiculous

GTE · 22-12-2010 08:26PM

Having driven conditions like that over the past day or two my conclusion is;

I have to make it clear that I have first hand experience of driving in these conditions over the past few weeks.

The reasons why we are crap with the snow in terms of driving.

Poorly treated roads - Lack of foresight by NRA in relation to salt supplies. This year probably has changed things
Lack of driver education, though everyone is not bad.
Lack of tyres to suit the season - Vehicle quickly reaches the limits.

As I have said I have driven in conditions like this and I like to think I am a decent driver but I have not missed a beat with my Winter spec tyres.

I drove the N51 or N52 from the M1 to Navan on Summer tyres two weeks ago. Got Winter spec tyres fitted (All Season tyres with the Snowflake standard) from Navan to Kilcock and the difference was night and day. From slipping about on flat roads at crawling speeds to a sure footed vehicle which is well in the limits of grip for the road.

The speed I can travel is a decent bit faster then what is in the video but still no where near the Summer.

I never got stuck in the snow when I had the Summers but I was at mercy of the ice and snow on a few occasions. With the new tyres, driving in the style that you should be I am yet to have the driving wheels spin up.

Now, if I was in idiot driver then Id be fecked with which ever tyres I like on the car.

Personally, I think we need to have the right amount of salt ready and not be in a position of having to ration it.
I think we need to get people educated on how to drive in the conditions.
Lastly get the vehicles on the road fit for conditions.

On a final not I have not had problem with the conditions of the roads when salting was at its peak and with the correct tyres.

Mr. Manager · 22-12-2010 08:28PM

Einhard wrote: »

There was plenty of snow around during the boom years. Just ask a certain G Ryan!

....Another Gerry Ryan joke, how witty :rolleyes:

Overheal · 22-12-2010 08:29PM

goose2005 wrote: »

Your house burns down once every 1,000 years, is fire insurance a waste of money?

A blizzard doesn't occur because someone drops their cigarette on the carpet.

mloc · 22-12-2010 08:31PM

It's not a case of how much it costs, it's a case of how much it costs compared to how much is lost because of roads closed, accidents happening, businesses losing money etc.

GTE · 22-12-2010 08:37PM

mloc wrote: »

It's not a case of how much it costs, it's a case of how much it costs compared to how much is lost because of roads closed, accidents happening, businesses losing money etc.

I agree. ITV news had a very good report on how much it would cost to equip the UK for the snow. The initial outlay would be something in the region of 700 million and then each year a running and maintenance cost (forgot the figure) but but apparently the UK is losing 64 million a day.

10 or 11 days and its paid itself off in the first year?

kincsem · 22-12-2010 08:41PM

Its not an inability to cope with snow .... its everyone sitting around doing nothing saying why don't they do something about the snow.

dubtom · 22-12-2010 08:42PM

Snowploughs are not the only things with the ability to clear snow and drop salt. JCB's, tractors, trucks with scoopers secured in front are all capable,and all the councils have them. So millions of Euro doesn't need to be invested in expensive equipment to deal with snow,they can use what the have. But that seems to be beyond the comprehension of the people responsible in this country,common sense and some willingness to actually do the job is all that's needed. Back in 83 we didn't have snowploughs,we had council guys on the back of trucks shoveling salt on to the roads.Though I suppose the unions wouldn't allow that now.

Sheeps · 22-12-2010 08:47PM

With the amount of money lost by the snow this year alone we'd have been able to equip ourselves for the next 10 years at least with equipment to deal with the snow. There's really no excuse for not being prepared for the snow.

cc-offe · 22-12-2010 08:49PM

Sheeps wrote: »

With the amount of money lost by the snow this year alone we'd have been able to equip ourselves for the next 10 years at least with equipment to deal with the snow.

I completely agree but as winters like this are so rare in Ireland they absolutely weren't expecting it, This loss of money spent in the economy is the last thing we needed really given how bad the economy is at the minute. It we were to continue having winters like this it would be madness not to have such equipment but hopefully this will be the last for a while

Tonyandthewhale · 22-12-2010 09:24PM

It doesn't matter whether or not equipment for the snow would pay for itself in one years or one hundred, we still don't have the money to pay for this stuff up front.
Also, if you try to scoop snow of the road using a jcb (as someone suggested) well then the snow would just build up in the bucket and over-flow. Snow-ploughs are shaped differently.

Overheal · 22-12-2010 09:45PM

bbk wrote: »

I agree. ITV news had a very good report on how much it would cost to equip the UK for the snow. The initial outlay would be something in the region of 700 million and then each year a running and maintenance cost (forgot the figure) but but apparently the UK is losing 64 million a day.

10 or 11 days and its paid itself off in the first year?

64 million in tax revenue or taxable revenue? Quite a significant difference when you account who you're asking to foot the bill.

Copper23 · 22-12-2010 11:16PM

Ok, a lot of good feedback here so I'll reply to some thing that were said here.

So some people are saying "Oh, my driveway is fine" and about expecting Mary Harney to come shovel my driveway. This isn't the point. In other parts of the world everyone does their own bit and takes care of their own patch.
The point is I'm not talking about "the hill outside your house"... I'm taking the video as an example and the M50 and other major roads like it are not prepared for it, and I'm glad if your own driveway is fine but some places outside the cities are just in a awful state right now with compacted snow/ice... that's no molehill... it's fact.

To go back to Massachussets. I'm using the example only because it just so happened I've been working there and experienced this over past week. Here is the thing. Yeah, there are some tolls (If you must know, I paid a whopping 50c or a whopping 38c in Euro speak). The difference is... my 50c meant I had a very quick and safe journey home in what would otherwise have left me stranded in most of Ireland. Most parts of Ireland get a few inches at most, we are talking a foot in 2 hours here! Do I want more taxes? Sure nobody wants that, but you know whats great? When you see that tax/toll money actually was put back into what you paid for and kept me safe on my way home. How often do we see this in Ireland? If I could pay 38c a day in Ireland through bad weather to improve my trip to and from work I'd gladly pay. The problem in Ireland is we rarely see the returns of our road taxes but that's one for another day.

The government budgets each year, as do councils and boards. They HAVE to allow as much money as they can for NECESSARY expenses. Now we all know there is not endless money for every last need we have. We can argue all day how much each government department needs. Having said that, there is an expectation that where money is absolutely needed, money needs to be made available. The fact that something like this isn't even budgeted for is madness. Some councils are saying they budgetted 0euro for gritting. That doesn't mean there was zero available, that means zero was budgetted out of all the money budgetted elsewhere. Look, we can argue about taxes and budgets all day and how much each should get but where there is an absolute need some of those tax euros need to go where they are needed to at least help the problem even if it doesn't solve it altogether (or else we'd never have any problems at all in this country).

The argument that this is the worst snow in many years just doesn't hold for me. There is NOWHERE in Ireland were there was an unmanageable amount of snow that fell... but lets take the snowfall out of the picture for a second. EVERY year we are plagued with ice without fail, this is the bigger problem. We are guaranteed each and every year to have ice throughout the winter yet it is never addressed. I just don't find this acceptable and doesn't fall in line with the arguement saying "Sure, this was totally unexpected, its not happened in 20 years".

I can't even see how some people here said that it's not that bad, that its being blown out of proportion. Do you want to tell that to the people who have been living in Heathrow airport for 4-5 days now? I sure don't. I'm pretty sure you'd get a fairly hostile reception to tell them that none of this is a big deal and is being handled very well. Airports and other transport services have been effected here also.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this just seems like another one of those situations where its always "someone elses problem" and we'll bury our heads in the sand where people are disagreeing here.

Satts · 22-12-2010 11:37PM

Winter tyres are the business.

oppenheimer1 · 22-12-2010 11:40PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Has anybody noticed that since the Celtic Tiger immergrated to China we've got a lot of heavy snow? could the 'boom' and no snow be a coincidence? I think not!!!

To be honest the only thing I've noticed is that there has been an excess of snow since Gerry Ryan died.

oppenheimer1 · 22-12-2010 11:47PM

Copper23 wrote: »

So I'm watching this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iLM9xHmLGHE

Why is it that Ireland and Britain have a total inability to cope with any amount of snow?

I travel a lot with work so I see different countries and climates during the year and how they deal with it.

Last week I was working in Northern Massachusetts and had to drive back to Boston. It began to snow around 4pm and about 6inches to a foot was laid down in the space of 2 hours or so.

There was absolutley no problem getting home. The motorways were gritted and de-iced well in advance. The traffic was moving only slightly less than normal speeds and it probably took me an extra 10 minutes at most to get to my destination.

The next morning the roads/paths we so well de-iced and shovelled you'd hardly know it snowed the night before.

What is it with this part of the world... in the video, thats not an awful lot of snow to deal with.

I know we don't get as much as other parts of the world but we live in a climate where a small amount of snow is not out of the question. Why are we totally unprepared for it?

I just don't get it, it's totally unacceptable IMO that the snow is just left there, un-treated for the most part, it is compacted and frozen and we are left with roads and footpaths which are dangerous for days accounting for lots of injuries, damage and loss of profits and business' close down.

I don't actually think it's too much to ask that a country's government and councils learns to deal with a fairly likely and manageable weather occurance in our climate.

Answer this, how often does Northern Massachusetts get heavy snowfalls? Would it be every year? Wouldn't that make it viable and indeed prudent to invest in snow removal equipment?

Our inability to cope with relatively small amounts of snow stems from two facts. Our dispersed population and huge network of roads, and the fact that these kind of snowfall events are an exception. We rarely get these kind of events and the amount we would need to invest in snow clearing equipment to deal with these events would not be a good investment as it might possibly be never used.

Snow is rare in Ireland, we choose to grin and bare it when it does happen because it is not cost effective to buy an army of snow ploughs.

Truley · 22-12-2010 11:53PM

It's funny because my boyfriend was laughed at and practically called a conspiracy theorist for buying ice cleats and winter tyres last year. Of course by the same people who will sit at home this year and winge that they're cold and stranded and the government or the council aren't doing enough to help them.

Even when I suggested the idea of winter tyres to my mother (who had just spent the best part of half and hour trying to get out of the housing estate) she scoffed that I was being 'a bit OTT' and 'sure this is only a freak incident and we probably wont get snow like this again for twenty years.'

In fact I think a part of her would be embarrassed to take responsibility upon herself for fear of being seen as some sort of non-conformist nut. That's Irish people though, will scoff and begrudge anyone who actually thinks outside the box and plans ahead.

Overheal · 22-12-2010 11:53PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Answer this, how often does Northern Massachusetts get heavy snowfalls? Would it be every year? Wouldn't that make it viable and indeed prudent to invest in snow removal equipment?

Our inability to cope with relatively small amounts of snow stems from two facts. Our dispersed population and huge network of roads, and the fact that these kind of snowfall events are an exception. We rarely get these kind of events and the amount we would need to invest in snow clearing equipment to deal with these events would not be a good investment as it might possibly be never used.

Snow is rare in Ireland, we choose to grin and bare it when it does happen because it is not cost effective to buy an army of snow ploughs.

Its at least historically rare, one has to decide if these weather patterns are indicative of a major change in the winter climate of if these have just been some freak years, similar to how 2004-2007 were some pretty damn freaky years for Hurricanes, but have since not repeated themselves.

So I can understand why theres no major rush to prepare for the next whiteout because in fairness, it might not happen.

As for the Snow Tyres thing: Yes. Get chains.

CJC86 · 23-12-2010 12:00AM

Copper23 wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this just seems like another one of those situations where its always "someone elses problem" and we'll bury our heads in the sand where people are disagreeing here.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

oppenheimer1 · 23-12-2010 12:01AM

Overheal wrote: »

Its at least historically rare, one has to decide if these weather patterns are indicative of a major change in the winter climate of if these have just been some freak years, similar to how 2004-2007 were some pretty damn freaky years for Hurricanes, but have since not repeated themselves.

So I can understand why theres no major rush to prepare for the next whiteout because in fairness, it might not happen.

As for the Snow Tyres thing: Yes. Get chains.

My statistics lecturer told me that two data points do not a trend make. I'd be more in favour of winter tyres rather than chains as there will be idiots who will use chains inappropriately which will damage the roads. Although more expensive, the tyres are a better choice as they are more idiot proof.

Irelands inability to cope with snow

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