Irelands inability to cope with snow

Copper23

So I'm watching this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iLM9xHmLGHE

Why is it that Ireland and Britain have a total inability to cope with any amount of snow?

I travel a lot with work so I see different countries and climates during the year and how they deal with it.

Last week I was working in Northern Massachusetts and had to drive back to Boston. It began to snow around 4pm and about 6inches to a foot was laid down in the space of 2 hours or so.

There was absolutley no problem getting home. The motorways were gritted and de-iced well in advance. The traffic was moving only slightly less than normal speeds and it probably took me an extra 10 minutes at most to get to my destination.

The next morning the roads/paths we so well de-iced and shovelled you'd hardly know it snowed the night before.

What is it with this part of the world... in the video, thats not an awful lot of snow to deal with.

I know we don't get as much as other parts of the world but we live in a climate where a small amount of snow is not out of the question. Why are we totally unprepared for it?

I just don't get it, it's totally unacceptable IMO that the snow is just left there, un-treated for the most part, it is compacted and frozen and we are left with roads and footpaths which are dangerous for days accounting for lots of injuries, damage and loss of profits and business' close down.

I don't actually think it's too much to ask that a country's government and councils learns to deal with a fairly likely and manageable weather occurance in our climate.

chin_grin

Copper23 wrote: »

Why are we totally unprepared for it?

Because we are?

Copper23 wrote: »

I don't actually think it's too much to ask that a country's government and councils learns to deal with a fairly likely and manageable weather occurance in our climate.

G'wan you! Blame everyone else for not coming to your house personally and shovelling the snow from your drive. Jaysus wept.

super_furry

Copper23 wrote: »

Why is it that Ireland and Britain have a total inability to cope with any amount of snow?

Because weather events like this happen once every 20 years and it would be an absolute waste of money to buy a fleet of snow ploughs and the rest of it.

Overheal

Copper23 wrote: »

Northern Massachusetts

Theres your answer. And how many Toll Booths did you pass through? Massachussens and several other New England states pay an arm and a leg for great roads. Exceptionally maintained, but also pretty heavily tolled. Driving to Maine from South Carolina you can expect to pay $60 in Toll Booth fees alone.

I remember watching reports from Atlanta GA last year where most of the city was basically shut down by a bit of snow and freezing rain. Truthfully, you can't be prepared for every eventuality, its not cost effective to store an army of snowplows or tankers full of grit just in case the country receives record snowfalls.

2Scoops

Are you willing to pay higher taxes to cover the cost of labour, salt, machinery etc., for the few times in the year it may actually snow? And even if you are willing to pay, is everyone else?

Wazdakka

2Scoops wrote: »

Are you willing to pay higher taxes to cover the cost of labour, salt, machinery etc., for the few times in the year it may actually snow? And even if you are willing to pay, is everyone else?

because the taxes we pay are used so efficiently as it is yea?

RonMexico

In fairness do we do anything right in this country? No.

Snow is no different. Just exposes more incompetence.

Dravokivich

Everyone rushing to their cars to get out.... geee... that's not going to cause gridlock and traffic problems regardless of the weather conditions is it?

Overheal

Wazdakka wrote: »

because the taxes we pay are used so efficiently as it is yea?

You'd want to be taxed and tolled. And again you'd want to drive on these highways the OP is talking about. Really impressive all the little outposts and garages off the side of the highway with grit and rescue vehicles just standing by for car wrecks and winter storms. But again, you know where the money comes from. Here's some of the money they're getting from taxes, and I doubt these figures include revenue from Tolling.

For instance, the Massachusetts State Budget allotted $118m For Snow and Ice Control alone.

http://www.mass.gov/bb/gaa/fy2009/app_09/sect_09/h600detail.htm

Oranage2

Has anybody noticed that since the Celtic Tiger immergrated to China we've got a lot of heavy snow? could the 'boom' and no snow be a coincidence? I think not!!!

robinph

2Scoops wrote: »

Are you willing to pay higher taxes to cover the cost of labour, salt, machinery etc., for the few times in the year a decade it may actually snow? And even if you are willing to pay, is everyone else?

FYP

It's just even more unusual that it's happened twice within the same calendar year.

Essien

I'd be happier if people would it least learn to drive in it.

smellslikeshoes

To be fair this fall of snow has seen a marked improvement over the one a few weeks back in how it's been dealt with here in Wexford and I'm sure a lot of other counties.

It doesn't happen very often so we don't spend the required money to be prepared for it when it does happen.

paddydriver

Mr video taker should have hopped the fence, down onto the M50 and lent a hand

Very little concept of people helping each other in this country - as someone ^ points out, why should we wait for the council to come to our help. Get out and do it yourself!

Few of us went to front of our estate this morning and cleared about 40 feet of road cause everyone was getting stuck in it due to it being a slight incline on a corner; some of the people driving in past us looked at us in disbelief and some in disgust that we would do this! Other's just didn't acknowledge us - odd one gave us a Thanks.

ScumLord

For the same reason Eskimos don't have a summer wardrobe.

Knasher

I'd imagine we would be quite bad at dealing with severe drought as well.

chin_grin

ScumLord wrote: »

For the same reason Eskimos don't have a summer wardrobe.

Mind = blown. 'tis but a myth!

Overheal

Speaking of what you spend am I reading this thing right?

http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/whitepaperfin2010.pdf

Page 7 item 32, Transport: is that 581 million or 581 thousand?

TheZohanS

Overheal wrote: »

Speaking of what you spend am I reading this thing right?

http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/whitepaperfin2010.pdf

Page 7 item 32, Transport: is that 581 million or 581 thousand?

Million.

Fighting Irish

I sort of agree but i know for a fact that if the gov had bought too much salt and there wasn't any snow then most people would moan about the gov wasting money

curlzy

I don't think it's so much Ireland's inability to cope with snow (haven't missed a single day of work) as much as boardsies inability to stop moaning about everything.

AntiMatter

Cold precipitation
has caused consternation,
all up and down our once warm nation.

So, the population
sans acclimation,
ensconse themselves in hibernation.

For those who dare
to venture out,
they slip and slide and fall about.

''Pour the salt,
before traffic halts.''
''But, we're out of grit.'', the councils bawl.

''We apologise
for the traffic jamming,
but we have no plan for forward-planning.''

Mr. Manager

Am I the only one in thinking we're doing ok through this snow storm?

It's extremely rare that it happens (worst I've seen in 20 plus years) and I think the local councils have been on top of things quite well. You can't blame society for other peoples inadequacy when it comes to driving. I for one have had no issues (touch wood I wont).

Kimono-Girl

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Am I the only one in thinking we're doing ok through this snow storm?

no.
i think most people for the most part, are doing great, i know in cork things are not as bad as the media and weather reports are making out, and i have been driving around just fine, and traffic has been very light for this time of year, so in a way its benefiting me that people are too afraid to drive!

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

You can't blame society for other peoples inadequacy when it comes to driving. I for one have had no issues (touch wood I wont).

i have been driving around just fine, even in my grandmothers housing estate where the snow hasn't melted and the roads have not been gritted we are all able to get around just fine, i know things are bad further up the hill but they are still getting out and about too! if you take it handy and learn how to control your car on ice, you will be fine.


some people are making a mountain out of a molehill with the snow!

danbohan

super_furry wrote: »

Because weather events like this happen once every 20 years and it would be an absolute waste of money to buy a fleet of snow ploughs and the rest of it.

maybe , but we have 450000 unemployed , now if they all had shovels !!!

Setun

To be honest I think the Irish constantly give Ireland a bad time when making comparisons with mainland Europe. In the Netherlands at the moment (actually I'm stuck in Schipol airport right now! ) and their train services have been decidedly random, bus services almost non existent on the snowier days, and trams are heavily delayed. The main roads are well looked after, true, but any secondary roads are as bad as they would be in Ireland. The only thing you can really do is drive safely, and do your bit with the pavement outside your house.

Cook my sock

danbohan wrote: »

maybe , but we have 450000 unemployed , now if they all had shovels !!!

Was wondering how long this would take :rolleyes:

Overheal

danbohan wrote: »

maybe , but we have 450000 unemployed , now if they all had shovels !!!

times ten euro per shovel... plus the cost of collectivization...

mloc

This is the third year in a row, not once in a decade.

As far as I am aware, Dublin City has 2 snowplows, one is currently out of action.

Some county council staff need to be sacked over this. Yesterday.

davyjose

super_furry wrote: »

Because weather events like this happen once every 20 years and it would be an absolute waste of money to buy a fleet of snow ploughs and the rest of it.

It happened a year ago!

I personally think we're seeing a change of climate here (sh!te summers used to be once every three or four - not every year!!!), and that it'll snow a lot from here on in. And we're going to have to get used to it.

Mr. Manager

Not a hope you can compare the weather we're having now to what we experienced 2 years ago!

Ok, fair enough, last year was bad but this year is definitely the worst. Even my mother (57) says this is the worst she can recall.

To reiterate what someone already said, it's reckless spending to go out and buy more snow ploughs, hire more council workers, purchase more salt, gritters etc.

If people were taught how to drive in the weather things might move a little smoother.. maybe snow socks could be made a legal requirement to use certain roads, mainly the Motorways.

RonMexico

Maybe people in Dublin now understand what other people had to deal with last year.

mloc

It's just a reflection of Irish authorities general ineptitude, coupled with the public's general complacency and stupidity.

Fight_Night

A lot of people in Ireland(or boards.ie to be specific) seem to have this deluded view of mainland Europe that they laugh at the thought of traffic being halted or schools closing or public transport being interrupted because of snow. Take Scandinavia for example, who get much worse winters than most of Europe, even they find it hard to deal with the snow at times and they are much much better equipped than us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11897825

CoalBucket

It all depends on where u are living and what you are driving. I live in north cork, we got about 3-4 inches of snow on friday night and it hasn't cleared since. It compacted on the road and cause hazardous driving conditions.

I can drive out in my car and once you get onto the main road it's drivable. Unfortunately I drive a van for work which is fully loaded up. It is front wheel drive and is impossible to drive up a hill in icey weather. C'est la vie.

The main roads are gritted and salted in some cases. The council has done their job. The issue I have with the council is the timing of the work they have done. I just wish they could be more proactive, we all knew the cold spell was coming. The should be out when it is snowing and clearing the roads then rather than a day or two later.

rossie1977

you can't compare how north eastern us states and canada deals with snow and how we here deal with snow, cities like buffalo average something like 100 inches of the whitestuff annually, cities in michigan over 140 inches every year so of course they can deal with it better

Einhard

Oranage2 wrote: »

Has anybody noticed that since the Celtic Tiger immergrated to China we've got a lot of heavy snow? could the 'boom' and no snow be a coincidence? I think not!!!

There was plenty of snow around during the boom years. Just ask a certain G Ryan!

Einhard

mloc wrote: »

It's just a reflection of Irish authorities general ineptitude, coupled with the public's general complacency and stupidity.

And the fact that snowfalls like the ones we're experiencing now hadn't occurred in a decade before this year. But hey, let's spend as much time and effort on our once in a decade problem as Massachusetts spends on their several times a year problem. And let's make sure all our buildings are earthquake proof too.

Star Bingo

Einhard wrote: »

And the fact that snowfalls like the ones we're experiencing now hadn't occurred in a decade before this year.

my ma says it has not snowed like that since the '60s, nevermind '83 .. is she waffling again?

goose2005

super_furry wrote: »

Because weather events like this happen once every 20 years and it would be an absolute waste of money to buy a fleet of snow ploughs and the rest of it.

Your house burns down once every 1,000 years, is fire insurance a waste of money?

mahamageehad

but if we follow the weather trends from the last few years can we not reasonably assume that the winters are getting colder and the summers are getting shítter??

I think we should become a little more prepared eg. compulsory winter tires and people wearing proper snow shoes instead of sliding around in their runners!!!

cc-offe

As others have said it doesn't snow often enough for us to justify spending all that money on the snow ploughs etc, it could be 10 or 20 years before we have more snow,
It's the same thing people moaning about airports etc being prepared, then everyone would be complaining that the ticket prices went up.

However during last februarys snow, a few locals went to our local beach and got some sand to grit the areas roads and it was lucky that they did so we could all go back to normal but some of those men are supposed to be getting prosecuted for that now.......ridiculous

GTE

Having driven conditions like that over the past day or two my conclusion is;

I have to make it clear that I have first hand experience of driving in these conditions over the past few weeks.

The reasons why we are crap with the snow in terms of driving.

• Poorly treated roads - Lack of foresight by NRA in relation to salt supplies. This year probably has changed things
• Lack of driver education, though everyone is not bad.
• Lack of tyres to suit the season - Vehicle quickly reaches the limits.

As I have said I have driven in conditions like this and I like to think I am a decent driver but I have not missed a beat with my Winter spec tyres.

I drove the N51 or N52 from the M1 to Navan on Summer tyres two weeks ago. Got Winter spec tyres fitted (All Season tyres with the Snowflake standard) from Navan to Kilcock and the difference was night and day. From slipping about on flat roads at crawling speeds to a sure footed vehicle which is well in the limits of grip for the road.

The speed I can travel is a decent bit faster then what is in the video but still no where near the Summer.

I never got stuck in the snow when I had the Summers but I was at mercy of the ice and snow on a few occasions. With the new tyres, driving in the style that you should be I am yet to have the driving wheels spin up.

Now, if I was in idiot driver then Id be fecked with which ever tyres I like on the car.

Personally, I think we need to have the right amount of salt ready and not be in a position of having to ration it.
I think we need to get people educated on how to drive in the conditions.
Lastly get the vehicles on the road fit for conditions.

On a final not I have not had problem with the conditions of the roads when salting was at its peak and with the correct tyres.

Mr. Manager

Einhard wrote: »

There was plenty of snow around during the boom years. Just ask a certain G Ryan!

....Another Gerry Ryan joke, how witty :rolleyes:

Overheal

goose2005 wrote: »

Your house burns down once every 1,000 years, is fire insurance a waste of money?

A blizzard doesn't occur because someone drops their cigarette on the carpet.

mloc

It's not a case of how much it costs, it's a case of how much it costs compared to how much is lost because of roads closed, accidents happening, businesses losing money etc.

GTE

mloc wrote: »

It's not a case of how much it costs, it's a case of how much it costs compared to how much is lost because of roads closed, accidents happening, businesses losing money etc.

I agree. ITV news had a very good report on how much it would cost to equip the UK for the snow. The initial outlay would be something in the region of 700 million and then each year a running and maintenance cost (forgot the figure) but but apparently the UK is losing 64 million a day.

10 or 11 days and its paid itself off in the first year?

kincsem

Its not an inability to cope with snow .... its everyone sitting around doing nothing saying why don't they do something about the snow.

dubtom

Snowploughs are not the only things with the ability to clear snow and drop salt. JCB's, tractors, trucks with scoopers secured in front are all capable,and all the councils have them. So millions of Euro doesn't need to be invested in expensive equipment to deal with snow,they can use what the have. But that seems to be beyond the comprehension of the people responsible in this country,common sense and some willingness to actually do the job is all that's needed. Back in 83 we didn't have snowploughs,we had council guys on the back of trucks shoveling salt on to the roads.Though I suppose the unions wouldn't allow that now.

Sheeps

With the amount of money lost by the snow this year alone we'd have been able to equip ourselves for the next 10 years at least with equipment to deal with the snow. There's really no excuse for not being prepared for the snow.

cc-offe

Sheeps wrote: »

With the amount of money lost by the snow this year alone we'd have been able to equip ourselves for the next 10 years at least with equipment to deal with the snow.

I completely agree but as winters like this are so rare in Ireland they absolutely weren't expecting it, This loss of money spent in the economy is the last thing we needed really given how bad the economy is at the minute. It we were to continue having winters like this it would be madness not to have such equipment but hopefully this will be the last for a while