Should atheists & non-practising Catholics be allowed to celebrate Christmas?

iamstop · 22-12-2010 02:32PM

I don't call it Christmas anymore, I call it Funkmas.
James Brown died on the 25th of December 2006 for your lack of funk.

The miracle was proved a year later when I was shipping my records and one box of funk records went missing, months went by while I was arguing with the shipping company about how they could lose a heavy box of records. Meanwhile I would wish people a merry Funkmas.
Then on the 23rd I got a call to say the records were found and I'd get them in the next shipment.

True story bro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzw7E1qH_PI

Shenshen · 22-12-2010 03:29PM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.

Shouldn't the real question be "Should christians be allowed to celebrate this amalgamation of Germanic, Celtic and Eastern Mediterranean traditions that we now call Christmas"?
After all, there only Christian things about it are what they just about made stick to it with sellotape and bluetack....
Tree, presents, turkey, Santa, time it's celebrated, none of them are Christian.

Misanthrope · 22-12-2010 04:00PM

What has Jesus got to do with X-Mas?Jesus never existed.

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:05PM

Misanthrope wrote: »

What has Jesus got to do with X-Mas? Jesus never existed.

There's plenty of textual historical evidence that He did from extra-Biblical sources.

It's a bit off topic anyway. Even Xmas as an abbreviation was first used by Christians. X being the first letter of the Greek writing of the word Christos.

I don't see any issue with non-Christians celebrating Christmas. It's a great time of year for everyone. Ultimately, Christmas is still a Christian festival, but in Christian spirit people of all creeds and none should be welcomed to participate in it in some shape or form.

It'd be great if people thought about the real meaning behind it, namely Jesus coming into the world as our Saviour, but ultimately this won't be guaranteed in all cases.

Hank_Jones · 22-12-2010 04:06PM

Personally Christmas means nothing to me, I'm not celebrating it really, I'm celebrating the chance to get together with family and friends on one of the rare occasions when people can.

And if there are gifts involved in that, well all the better.

Also, happy Festivus everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbfMmCf5-ds

NothingMan · 22-12-2010 04:07PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Ultimately, christians have warped and stolen others ideas and traditions to the point where it's widely accepted as a christian holiday.

Fyp.

Shenshen · 22-12-2010 04:11PM

Misanthrope wrote: »

What has Jesus got to do with X-Mas?Jesus never existed.

It doesn't but hey, that won't stop Christians claiming it's their holiday

After all, the 25th od December was officially Mithras's birthday before they stole it from the followers of Mithras.
So, remember the true meaning of Christmas, children : Steal stuff from people you disagree with and claim it's always been yours!

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:12PM

NothingMan wrote: »

Fyp.

Christmas became prominent after Charlemagne, I'm fairly sure. I know for a fact that Christmas originated out of a pagan festival, but in its present form on a global level it is predominately a Christian celebration. Again, I have yet to see how being reminded of this has any real implications to how I should regard Christmas as being a celebration of Jesus' birth.

It's the same whining every year. I don't see what's so wrong with regarding Christmas as a Christian festival and celebrating it even if you don't hold Christian beliefs. Nobody is going to stop you and the OP is misguided. Secular Jews still celebrate Hannukah and I'm sure the same is true of other festivals.

maxxie · 22-12-2010 04:13PM

Black Dog wrote: »

Catholics are hardly in a position to call others hypocrites. Priests and child abuse spring to mind.

Are all priests child abusers?

Shenshen · 22-12-2010 04:15PM

maxxie wrote: »

Are all priests child abusers?

That's a trick question, right? Like asking a politician if it's true that all politicians are liers?

Dermo · 22-12-2010 04:16PM

maxxie wrote: »

Are all priests child abusers?

Yes

prinz · 22-12-2010 04:20PM

Shenshen wrote: »

It doesn't but hey, that won't stop Christians claiming it's their holiday ;)After all, the 25th od December was officially Mithras's birthday before they stole it from the followers of Mithras.

There are only a finite number of days in the year. No matter when you put it on people will accuse you of high-jacking someone else's day.

Dermo · 22-12-2010 04:22PM

prinz wrote: »

There are only a finite number of days in the year. No matter when you put it on people will accuse you of high-jacking someone else's day.

There's a difference between choosing a random day and deliberately choosing a pagan holiday on the opposite side of the calendar to try and stop people from celebrating the pagan holiday.

TheZohanS · 22-12-2010 04:22PM

Good thread OP, it raises some bigger questions.

Should women be allowed to buy Man-Size tissues?
Should girls be allowed Yorkie bars?
Single people allowed buy "family pack" groceries?
Scangers allowed use "Gents" & "Ladies"?

The list goes on...all serious business....

Guill · 22-12-2010 04:22PM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.

Try and stop me! LOL!

If i want to celbrate baby Santa's birthday i will.
Should christians be allowed celebrate any holiday as there is no such thing as ghosts or all seeing beings.

marco_polo · 22-12-2010 04:23PM

Five Six pages, this hit and run has been a roaring success anyway. Bravo OP :pac:

Guill · 22-12-2010 04:26PM

Misanthrope wrote: »

What has Jesus got to do with X-Mas?Jesus never existed.

Maybe he did but he was not the son of god nor was he born on the 25th of december.

Penny Dreadful · 22-12-2010 04:26PM

Jakkass wrote: »

There's plenty of textual historical evidence that He did from extra-Biblical sources.

It's a bit off topic anyway. Even Xmas as an abbreviation was first used by Christians. X being the first letter of the Greek writing of the word Christos.

I don't see any issue with non-Christians celebrating Christmas. It's a great time of year for everyone. Ultimately, Christmas is still a Christian festival, but in Christian spirit people of all creeds and none should be welcomed to participate in it in some shape or form.

It'd be great if people thought about the real meaning behind it, namely Jesus coming into the world as our Saviour, but ultimately this won't be guaranteed in all cases.

Jesus coming into the world as a saviour is only the real meaning of Christmas is you're a Christian and believe that you need saving (although from what is still something I don't get).
For others the real meaning of this festival is a coming together of all those you love and care about and may not have seen for some time. The giving of presents is really a way of showing you have thoughts about someone you care about and have put effort into getting them something special for them.
For me, this Christmas is going to be so much better than last year's. My whole family will be together for the first time in years and some of us (myself included) were going through some bad stuff this time last year, things have turned around in such a positive way that I am grateful to be able to celebrate this turn in fortune and circumstance with my family.

ztoical · 22-12-2010 04:28PM

Johnny Utah wrote: »

It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.

Why would I, as an atheist, attend Mass on any day?

I have the day off work because my office is closed and there's no way for me to get in

I lived in New York for years and had several Jewish holidays off each year, I work currently with an Indian company so get time off for their festive holidays, it's not my fault other people belive in magic people and close the office on certain days.

My family make the choice to buy me gifts and present them to me on the 25th of December, I have told them they don't have to and it's their choice if they do. I purchase gifts for my family and friends at various points through out the year because I love them and want to give them things not because of some date on the calander or shinny tv commerical tells me to.

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:32PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Jesus coming into the world as a saviour is only the real meaning of Christmas is you're a Christian and believe that you need saving (although from what is still something I don't get).
For others the real meaning of this festival is a coming together of all those you love and care about and may not have seen for some time. The giving of presents is really a way of showing you have thoughts about someone you care about and have put effort into getting them something special for them.

This is arguable. While I think that family and friends are important. The most important thing for us all is that we can know and love God as well. Without God, there is no meaning to anything as I would see it. You're welcome to disagree and have it out with me, but this is honestly what I feel.

As for not getting why we need to be saved, that's probably a key reason why you don't understand the significance of Christmas in a Christian context. We've all sinned against God, we've broken the standards that the Creator gave us which puts a wedge in our relationship with Him. Jesus being sinless came into the world to redeem it, to take the price of our sin so that we can come into a new relationship with God. This is why it is the best news that the world has ever heard. He was also an insightful teacher and a revolutionary of whom the world hasn't ever seen before, nor will see again until His return.

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

For me, this Christmas is going to be so much better than last year's. My whole family will be together for the first time in years and some of us (myself included) were going through some bad stuff this time last year, things have turned around in such a positive way that I am grateful to be able to celebrate this turn in fortune and circumstance with my family.

That's great, and this is an essential part of Christmas. Personally I can't hold that this is all that it is about. It's not either or for me. I can give thanks for God coming into the world to save us, and I can also give thanks for friends and family who are ultimately a blessing from God also.

Shenshen · 22-12-2010 04:33PM

prinz wrote: »

There are only a finite number of days in the year. No matter when you put it on people will accuse you of high-jacking someone else's day.

Well, stealing it from the redeemer of the world who allegedly on that day was born by a virgin and placed in a manger somewhere in the Middle East...
They didn't exactly stop with just nicking the day

prinz · 22-12-2010 04:34PM

Dermo wrote: »

There's a difference between choosing a random day and deliberately choosing a pagan holiday on the opposite side of the calendar to try and stop people from celebrating the pagan holiday.

Or you know, make it easier on folk. Hanukkah also landed on the 25th day of Kislev on the old Hebrew calendar which roughly equates to the period from the end of November to the end of December. Shock horror.

Guill · 22-12-2010 04:35PM

Jakkass wrote: »

The most important thing for us all is that we can know and love God as well. Without God, there is no meaning to anything as I would see it. You're welcome to disagree and have it out with me, but this is honestly what I feel.

Why or how is there no meaning to anything without a deluded belive in an all powerful being?

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:38PM

Guill wrote: »

Why or how is there no meaning to anything without a deluded belive in an all powerful being?

Meaning and significance, as I see it come from seeing our place in the big picture. Our place within God's plan if you will if we choose to accept Him. If there is no higher purpose to living, this is it, all I have to live for is mere material things.

If I am able to enter into a relationship with God on the other hand, I'm able to fully serve Him and others as beings above and beyond myself. By knowing God, I know who He is, I know what the world is like, and I know that I need to live differently in a world that goes so completely and fully against His standards and goals.

prinz · 22-12-2010 04:38PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, stealing it from the redeemer of the world who allegedly on that day was born by a virgin and placed in a manger somewhere in the Middle East...They didn't exactly stop with just nicking the day

Yeah, you're only about 1800 odd years late on 'noticing' that. The first people to expand on that idea were........oooh Christian writers.

22-12-2010 04:42PM

Jakkass wrote: »

This is arguable. While I think that family and friends are important. The most important thing for us all is that we can know and love God as well. Without God, there is no meaning to anything as I would see it.......

Dude, that's evangelising. There's places for it, this isn't it.

Maybe he did but he was not the son of god

Why or how is there no meaning to anything without a deluded belive in an all powerful being?

That's just the same thing, with a different belief.

Come on, less of the "MAH BELEEF IZ RITE AN YUR BELEEF IZ RONG" BS. People have a fundamental right to believe what they want to believe without being badgered and bothered about it, and they have every right to do whatever they want to do about it. You got a problem, go raise an army and invade Poland.

Shenshen · 22-12-2010 04:43PM

prinz wrote: »

Yeah, you're only about 1800 odd years late on 'noticing' that. The first people to expand on that idea were........oooh Christian writers.

Oh, I'm well aware that it's not exactly news.
What never ceases t oamaze me is to how many people out there, and for some reason especially to Christians, it's nothing they've ever heard before.

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude, that's evangelising. There's places for it, this isn't it.

It's a thread about Christmas. Christmas has something to do with Christ. If you have a problem with what I am saying I'd advise you to get in touch with the mods and they will sort me out. That's their job, there is no need to feel burdened to take it on yourself.

As far as I see it, this is a discussion board and most opinion is fair game unless it seriously violates the charter.

I believe that Jesus is Lord and I'm not going to apologise for it.

Penny Dreadful · 22-12-2010 04:47PM

Jakkass wrote: »

This is arguable. While I think that family and friends are important. The most important thing for us all is that we can know and love God as well. Without God, there is no meaning to anything as I would see it. You're welcome to disagree and have it out with me, but this is honestly what I feel.

As for not getting why we need to be saved, that's probably a key reason why you don't understand the significance of Christmas in a Christian context. We've all sinned against God, we've broken the standards that the Creator gave us which puts a wedge in our relationship with Him. Jesus being sinless came into the world to redeem it, to take the price of our sin so that we can come into a new relationship with God. This is why it is the best news that the world has ever heard. He was also an insightful teacher and a revolutionary of whom the world hasn't ever seen before, nor will see again until His return.

That's great, and this is an essential part of Christmas. Personally I can't hold that this is all that it is about. It's not either or for me. I can give thanks for God coming into the world to save us, and I can also give thanks for friends and family who are ultimately a blessing from God also.

See I don't believe that there is a God or someone was sent to earth to save us or that I have sinned against this God and that I will be saved for these sins by Jesus. You do and so use this festival as a time to celebrate that and be thankful for that which is great for you. I use this as a time of year to be grateful and thankful for either the good things that have happened for the people I love and care about or to show them love and support and help them into the coming year with the intention of making things better.
Ultimately the message of Christianity (as far as I see it) is about love and family and so whether I believe in God and being saved or not as you do we are both celebrating the same thing.

philologos · 22-12-2010 04:50PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

See I don't believe that there is a God or someone was sent to earth to save us or that I have sinned against this God and that I will be saved for these sins by Jesus. You do and so use this festival as a time to celebrate that and be thankful for that which is great for you. I use this as a time of year to be grateful and thankful for either the good things that have happened for the people I love and care about or to show them love and support and help them into the coming year with the intention of making things better.
Ultimately the message of Christianity (as far as I see it) is about love and family and so whether I believe in God and being saved or not as you do we are both celebrating the same thing.

Hm, the reason the message of Christianity is about love, is because God loved us first and demonstrated this love for us through Jesus. Separating love from what God has done would be impossible in a Christian understanding.

The Gospel can't be watered down, it's there for people to believe and trust in so that their lives can be changed by an encounter with God.

Funnily enough, this is the exciting message of Christmas.

Should atheists & non-practising Catholics be allowed to celebrate Christmas?

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