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Should atheists & non-practising Catholics be allowed to celebrate Christmas?

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Comments

  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah man - you're stopping me from celebrating a pagan festival and also by receiving presents from a character that was coloured in by Coca-Cola.

    Actually screw it - I'm going to celebrate Hanukkah. Those chocolate coins are delicious.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Apanachi


    If they want to, why not? if you're going to go down that road of stopping people celebrate things that have nothing to do with their beliefs/ancestory etc... , then you'd have to ban St. Patrick's Day & Hallowe'en in the US

    Now what I do find a Big pain in the ar$e, a (catholic) colleague of mine has to work Christmas (AGAIN!!!) this year, because another muslim colleague wants to have Christmas off (AGAIN!!!) - even though he doesn't celebrate Christmas at all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭Plazaman


    You're right OP, segregation is the only way to stop those pesky atheists enjoying themselves at Christmas. I say use the Aviva Stadium to lock them in there for Christmas Eve to Stephens Day with Militia patrolling to ensure no fun is had. That'll teach them. Cheek of them drinking our beer and opening our presents (must be some form of blood test to check for the atheist gene).


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Cut out the personal stuff from here on out please folks. Everyone be telling everyong to go and f*ck themselves. No need for it. In fact if ye all f*cked each other we might spread a little happiness. Christian or no.
    (ie missionary or anal apparently.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    Christmas OP or Xmas?

    Where X = The square root of the sum of the hypotenuse devided by 4 y to the power of 7.

    That's what I celebrate.


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  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's a disgusting sentiment that because you don't have the flag of Christianity or whatever, you should be shut out, excluded, left out of the celebrations.

    It's something at the top of the slippery slope of bigotry (down at the bottom being getting shot for blasphemy).

    I oppose vehemently the idea that "YOU ZALL BEH CRISSTIN OR YU ZALL OT SELEBRATE ZE CRISSTIN FESTIVAL! NO PREZZIES FOR YU PAGAN!

    (I got an infraction for the go f......ly off a cliff comment)


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cut out the personal stuff from here on out please folks. Everyone be telling everyong to go and f*ck themselves. No need for it. In fact if ye all f*cked each other we might spread a little happiness. Christian or no.
    (ie missionary or anal apparently.)

    Actually I believe in procreational racial deconstruction - we just keep f*cking until we're all the same colour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Dunno bout the. Rest of you but I'm celebrating saturnalia.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people.

    Yeah... Look around you, its nothing but a commercial holiday that gets milked. Alot of people including ye ole high and mighty christians (:rolleyes:) dont celebrate the true meaning of it anymore.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

    If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.
    As you know very well, Christmas has long ago transcended being the celebration of an arbitrary date attributed as the birth of Christ. It is what the people make it, and it's their prerogative to celebrate it as they see fit1.

    Obvious contrarian is obvious.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 831 ✭✭✭achtungbarry


    OP, answer me this:

    Will you be partaking in the non christian aspects of Christmas such as putting up a christmas tree, eating turkey and ham for dinner, exchanging gifts, doing the whole Santa thing with the kids etc?

    If so, is it not you being the hypocrite?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,257 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    It seems to me that the true meaning of Christmas is lost on some people. Should atheists and non-practising Catholics be allowed to partake in festive celebrations, attend mass on Christmas day, receive presents and have days off work, even though they clearly have no belief in God/religion?

    If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.

    We don't attend mass.
    To us its day with the family and give presents. Its not about religion.
    You don't have to be catholic to give gifts on a certain day of the year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Adam


    op is fail

    /unfollow


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Now come on, not all of us completely throw out the Baby Jeebus side of Christmas. I'm a beleiver (yes I could be wrong, but I don't ferickin care!). We're not all atheists y'know.

    But you have every right to celebrate Christmas as you see fit. You have no rigth to dictate to others how they should or shouldn't celebrate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Nevore wrote: »
    Dunno bout the. Rest of you but I'm celebrating saturnalia.

    So your craic is over tomorrow then according to wikipedia?
    Saturnalia was introduced around [217 BC] to raise citizen morale after a crushing military defeat at the hands of the Carthaginians.[1] Originally celebrated for a day, on December 17, its popularity saw it grow until it became a week-long extravaganza, ending on the 23rd. Efforts to shorten the celebration were unsuccessful. Augustus tried to reduce it to three days, and Caligula to five. These attempts caused uproar and massive revolts among the Roman citizens.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kwanzaa is where it's at.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    You can't have it both ways. Either Christmas is a public holiday which is open to everyone or it is a religious holiday, in which case you should work through it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Christians should only be celebrated by christians mid summer when JC was actually born


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭sipstrassi


    If you can organise that Christmas is removed from everywhere but your churches then fair enough, I'll have nothing to do with it.

    Thanks in advance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Actually I believe in procreational racial deconstruction - we just keep f*cking until we're all the same colour.

    I call all the asian women.:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Osgoodisgood


    Ssssssssssssssshhhhh.........the OP is sleeping


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Adyx wrote: »
    What about other Christians? Should they be allowed celebrate what was originally is a pagan festival?

    FYP

    Have a cool Yule ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭breadandjam


    I think celebrating Christmas if you're not a Christian is making a mockery of the religion and thus may be covered by the Anti Blasphemy Laws.
    I suggest the OP go to the nearest Garda station and have us all arrested


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Christmas should be dropped and changed to the capitalist holiday that it is. It could be called "purchasing week" where every one only has that week to purchase something for everyone they know leaving themselves bankrupt all their left to cling onto is the spirit of giving (because all the **** people bought for them broke or the already had one) while the fat cats smear honey all over themselves and roll around in all the money that was spent over purchasing week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    The Puritans, known for their religious fervor hated Christmas. A law was passed in 1659 outlawing the celebration of Christmas and a 5 shilling fine was levied against anyone "found observing, by abstinence from labour, feasting or any other way, any such days as Christmas Day". They considered Christmas "an extreme forgetfulness of Christ, by giving liberty to carnal and sensual delights".
    Sourced from my "Odd History" calander.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,698 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Open the pubs and I'll very merrily forgo Christmas, keeping the non-christian bits. Same goes for the other hijacked feast day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    The Christmas Tree

    This is derived from several solstice traditions. The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and placed candles in live trees to decorate for the celebration of Saturnalia. In Scandinavia, they hung apples from evergreen trees at the winder solstice to remind themselves that spring and summer will come again. The evergreen tree was the special plant of their sun god, Baldor.

    Gift Exchanging

    The practice of exchanging gifts at a winter celebration is also pre-Christian and is from the Roman Saturnalia. They would exchange good-luck gifts called Stenae (lucky fruits). They also would have a big feast just like we do today.

    Mistletoe

    Mistletoe is from an ancient Druid custom at the winter solstice. Mistletoe was considered a divine plant and it symbolized love and peace. The tradition of kissing under the mistletoe is Druid in origin.

    Yule log

    The Scandinavian solstice traditions had a lot of influences on our celebration besides the hanging of ornaments on evergreen trees. Their ancient festival was called Yuletide and celebrated the return of the sun. One of their traditions was the Yule log. The log was the center of the trunk of a tree that was dragged to a large fireplace where it was supposed to burn for twelve days. From this comes the twelve days of Christmas.

    December 25th

    Even the date of Christmas, December 25, was borrowed from another religion. At the time Christmas was created in AD 320, Mithraism was very popular. The early Christian church had gotten tired of their futile efforts to stop people celebrating the solstice and the birthday of Mithras, the Persian sun god. Mithras’ birthday was December 25. So the pope at the time decided to make Jesus’ official birthday coincide with Mithras’ birthday. No one knows what time of year Jesus was actually born but there is evidence to suggest that it was in midsummer.

    Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

    Santa Claus

    Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.

    Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil” who sentenced Jesus to death.

    In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children’s stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

    The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

    In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25thinstead of December 6th.

    In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow andRip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

    Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

    The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

    In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

    Frankly, by the sounds of it the question should be "Should Christians be allowed to celebrate Christmas?"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Spunge


    It seems to me that the true meaning of trolling is lost on some people. Should trolls and non-practising trolls be allowed to partake in trolling, even though they clearly have no belief in trolling?

    If so, seems quite hypocritical to me.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    The evergreen tree was the special plant of their sun god, Baldor.
    Doesn't he work in the Claremorris Tescos now?


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