prices 31%higher than EU average

Japer · 16-12-2010 03:30PM

Despite the overhead of high energy costs (no surprise when people in the ESB are paid up to 750,000 per year ) , high vat rates and the cost of supporting (and nobody can argue otherwise ) a highly paid public sector, private sector prices are on the floor, as witnessed by the large numbers of firms closing / not making money.

As regards food, clothing and shelter :

Aldi + Lidl + Tesco does not vary that much between the different countries.
Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany.
A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384

In Germany people usually rent apartments ; the average public servant there cannot buy an apartment there with just one years gross salary.

So thats food, clothing + shelter.

Things like the television licence are high because there are so many fat-cats in RTE who pay themselves double what the US president makes. There are 200 quangos in the country which have to be supported. The country has less taxpayers who pay income tax than there are tax payers in a medium size city abroad, yet we think we should have embassies dotted here there and everywhere ....and still borrow 700 million a year to spend on government "overseas aid".
As Bob Geldof used to sing " Banana Republic..." ....except we do'nt have the bananas.

ei.sdraob · 16-12-2010 03:37PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

read the energy dependancy table when you scroll down on that same page

edit; their prices to industry per unit are also cheaper then irelands and the consumer price includes taxes and vat, i beleive denmarks taxes and vat are higher then ours, in fact wiki says denmark is the most taxed nation in the world

that only further adds to my point! winds variability is useless at reducing energy costs especially in a market that doesn't prioritize lower price and efficiency

1. they often export the energy for free which is a waste and subsidises other economies
2. rising fuel prices would still negatively affect them too since they don't all drive electric cars, and their industry still relies on fossil fuels.
3. we will endup with higher taxes and less services to show for than them thanks to the current bunch in government, same lot who you are so blindly putting faith into to lead you into a free energy utopia
4. they manufacture turbines, we dont
5. they are next to europes largest economy, we cant even build inter-connectors without wasting money

instead of learning from their mistakes we are repeating them but from a much worse standpoint at a time when we are being run by the IMF

PeakOutput · 16-12-2010 03:56PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

that only further adds to my point! winds variability is useless at reducing energy costs especially in a market that doesn't prioritize lower price and efficiency

1. they often export the energy for free which is a waste and subsidises other economies
2. rising fuel prices would still negatively affect them too since they don't all drive electric cars, and their industry still relies on fossil fuels.
3. we will endup with higher taxes and less services to show for than them thanks to the current bunch in government, same lot who you are so blindly putting faith into to lead you into a free energy utopia
4. they manufacture turbines, we dont
5. they are next to europes largest economy, we cant even build inter-connectors without wasting money

instead of learning from their mistakes we are repeating them but from a much worse standpoint at a time when we are being run by the IMF

im not the one being blind dude. i am willing to bet that if you remove their taxes and ours from the energy unit costs for households theirs will be cheaper

their industry uses the same grid as the rest of the country, that grid is 25% wind and aims to be something like 95% wind by 2025

denmark is smaller and more populated then ireland so there is no reason why that target is not attainable by us.

every penny that is spent in denmark on electicity by either a business or an individual stays in the country,plus a bit, IF wind is more expensive then fossil fuels(which it isnt in the long term) then that is worth it

having a **** goverment is not a good enough reason for not making the right decisions. if the right decision for energy is wind it stays the right decision regardless of who is in power. if you dont trust the goverment to do it right, change the goverment. if you dont trust the goverment to do it right how do you trust them to do nuclear right?

of course they dont all drive electronic cars, however that is obviously going to change over the next 25 years.

not that it matters but there is no reason we cant manufacture turbines, but even if we decide not to the once of import is worth the extra money to be free from massive amounts of constant imports

this is the wrong thread for this anyway but its the last im going to say on the matter in either thread, i think you are being extremely short sighted, you think im buying into the greens propaganda(i dont think iv ever listened to or read an entire green statement in my life) we can disagree thats fine, you think they have made mistakes, maybe they have but overall they are doing far far better on the energy matter then ireland. only time will tell who is right

Idbatterim · 16-12-2010 05:57PM

Op, government related services have gone up and up and up in price recently, private sectors have come down. The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

irishh_bob · 16-12-2010 10:13PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Op, government related services have gone up and up and up in price recently, private sectors have come down. The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

they are also responsible for preventing real competition from existing in certain sectors of the so called private sectors , GP,s , dentists , consultants , various sheltered sectors of economy

ardmacha · 16-12-2010 10:48PM

The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

This is actually nonsense. Yes the government imposes costs on people in various ways, and the exact tax strucutre can vary a bit from other places, but it does not take a larger chunk of GNP in tax than any other West European country. So the overall impact of government should be similar, even if there are detailed differences.

they are also responsible for preventing real competition from existing in certain sectors of the so called private sectors , GP,s , dentists , consultants , various sheltered sectors of economy

These sectors are quite capable of restricting competition by themselves. Perhaps what you mean is that the government does not do enough to stop them, which is not quite the same thing.

PeakOutput · 16-12-2010 11:04PM

ardmacha wrote: »

So the overall impact of government should be similar, even if there are detailed differences.
.

thats not an entirely accurate assumption, were from and how the goverment takes its cut is very important

ardmacha · 16-12-2010 11:53PM

thats not an entirely accurate assumption, were from and how the goverment takes its cut is very important

It might be somewhat important, but does not account for anything like a 31% difference. Yet there is tremendous resistance to organising taxes with water charges etc in a similar way to other countries.

But if I was the new government I would try my best to increase competition and so normalise price levels.

Japer · 20-12-2010 11:29AM

ardmacha wrote: »

But if I was the new government I would try my best to increase competition and so normalise price levels.

The government tried to increase competition in the banking sector during the Tiger years, and we had new entrants to the market like Bank of Scotland and Halifax ; see how that ended up. There was too much competition to give out loans if anything. As regards food, clothing and shelter, there is plenty of competition as shown earlier : ( eg Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany. A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384 )

The real area where competition / value for money needs to come is the value for money the taxpayer gets from the public sector. Also semi states like the ESB, which have some of the highest electricity prices in the world - no surprise when salaries there are up to € 750,000 .

Nody · 20-12-2010 11:58AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tesco, for example, have a profit percentage that's the second highest in their world operations only after Korea.

Care to back that up that number with more then a guess in an article from a certain newspaper?

BeeDI · 20-12-2010 12:00PM

Prices in Ireland HAVE come down fairly dramatically over the past couple of years, in a good number of areas.
Cars are much, much better value even excluding scrappage scheme effect.
Car servicing MUCH, MUCH, MUCH cheaper. Real competition in this area.
General house and property maintenance cheaper.
Overall weekly food and consumable supplies cheaper. Compared to nearest neighbour still expensive.

murphaph · 20-12-2010 12:15PM

Japer wrote: »

Despite the overhead of high energy costs (no surprise when people in the ESB are paid up to 750,000 per year ) , high vat rates and the cost of supporting (and nobody can argue otherwise ) a highly paid public sector, private sector prices are on the floor, as witnessed by the large numbers of firms closing / not making money.

As regards food, clothing and shelter :
Aldi + Lidl + Tesco does not vary that much between the different countries.

Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany.

A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384

In Germany people usually rent apartments ; the average public servant there cannot buy an apartment there with just one years gross salary.

So thats food, clothing + shelter.

Things like the television licence are high because there are so many fat-cats in RTE who pay themselves double what the US president makes. There are 200 quangos in the country which have to be supported. The country has less taxpayers who pay income tax than there are tax payers in a medium size city abroad, yet we think we should have embassies dotted here there and everywhere ....and still borrow 700 million a year to spend on government "overseas aid".
As Bob Geldof used to sing " Banana Republic..." ....except we do'nt have the bananas.

Good post but I'd remind folks that the German TV licence is ALSO more expensive than the Irish one AND I'd like to know where the myth that energy costs so much more in Ireland came from...

MY ELECTRICITY IN BERLIN COSTS 22.5c/kWh.
The ESB (not the cheapest) costs app. 16c/kWh.

My gas is also more expensive than what people pay Bord Gais and Diesel for the car only became more expensive after the budget in Ireland. It was cheaper in Ireland until this month.

Energy in Ireland simply dies not cost more than Germany, in fact it's cheaper for electricity and gas. Perhaps the real problem is that the expectations of average Irish workers are much higher (for no reason other than "we're Irish") than the expectations of German workers.

Nobody here really expects they'll ever be able to afford a 3 bed semi in the suburbs. It happens for people eventually but only (typically) after many years of saving. Irish people got used to instant gratification during the boom years. No saving for anything, just slap it on the CC and hope for the best. people then took this lax attitude to debt and applied it to the biggest purchases of their lives and hence we have people on fairly ordinary wages with half million Euro mortgages.

gurramok · 20-12-2010 12:41PM

murphaph wrote: »

Energy in Ireland simply dies not cost more than Germany, in fact it's cheaper for electricity and gas. Perhaps the real problem is that the expectations of average Irish workers are much higher (for no reason other than "we're Irish") than the expectations of German workers.

There has to be a distinction between residential and industrial electricity when discussing costs

Though I do think my lecky bill in the apt with hardly any usage is high as its split between day and night usage where i get screwed on day units using the washing machine/heating from 09:00hr to 24:00hr!!

As per earlier link, 2nd highest in the EU for industrial electricity and that's not good for costs at all.

galway2007 · 20-12-2010 01:18PM

So on this thread we are hearing the same crap as we heard over the past 10 year that it is the cost of doing business that is causing the 31% difference.
That is a load of crap
The fact is that the Irish people are screwed by greed from the private sector employers
They even screw us on the exchange rates when they are converting to Euro
So form now on I suggest that when you are looking at pay rate in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe that you start off by allowing a 31% allowance for people being screwed by the Irish private sector greed
Yea are very quick to attack the public sector and there wages, while the high wages that the private sector are paid come from screwing the last penny out of people

lasnoufle · 20-12-2010 01:40PM

Well I think that what you don't get is, if I'm not happy with the prices in the private sector because I don't think they bring good value for the money I spend, I have the choice not to pay (and as I said before, I do it, and I believe everything would be cheaper if other people did it too instead of complaining). And yes, I'm saying that YOU should stop buying if you think it's expensive.

Now what choice do I have If I'm not happy with public sector services? None. I still have to pay for them. Even if I don't use them! And note that I understand that other people need them etc and I recognize the need for solidarity.

limklad · 20-12-2010 03:05PM

paddy145 wrote: »

I think it worth noting that residential: electricity prices for a typical household (Band DD 5,000-15,000 kWh/annum incl. VAT)) have improved compared with the second half of 2009:
Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average. This compares with 2% below for the last semester and are now on a par with the EU27 average versus 7% above last semester.
.

gurramok wrote: »

You sure about that? http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

As I can see from that link, 5th highest for the consumer in the whole of the EU27.

In the top 2 of industrial electricity pricing in the whole of the EU27. For an economy thats bust, that needs to come down.

I plotted the figures into excel and did a EU average and EU-15 comparison.

Gas in Ireland is far more expensive to nearly double. Electricity is on par with EU15 but dearer on EU average by 10-20%. It is surprising that Gas is more expensive since we are moving from coal/peat/oil to gas electricity generation, which will more likely increase Electricity prices in the near future.

paddy145 · 20-12-2010 03:26PM

limklad wrote: »

I plotted the figures into excel and did a EU average and EU-15 comparison.

Gas in Ireland is far more expensive to nearly double. Electricity is on par with EU15 but dearer on EU average by 10-20%. It is surprising that Gas is more expensive since we are moving from coal/peat/oil to gas electricity generation, which will more likely increase Electricity prices in the near future.

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

Fat_Fingers · 20-12-2010 03:40PM

paddy145 wrote: »

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

is that you Padraig McManus?

paddy145 · 20-12-2010 03:51PM

LOL, I thought I might get that response, but what I say is true. I agree his wages are absurd though and im not trying to justify them.

limklad · 20-12-2010 05:56PM

paddy145 wrote: »

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

You have not stated where you are getting your Data from? Without it even when your comments are written in BOLD, It still is just hot air with no substance. Verifiable data only

Dan_Solo · 22-12-2010 10:21PM

Japer wrote: »

A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384 )

Any price examples that aren't in the arse end of nowhere?
You would've used them if you did I guess.

Dan_Solo · 22-12-2010 10:28PM

lasnoufle wrote: »

Now what choice do I have If I'm not happy with public sector services? None. I still have to pay for them. Even if I don't use them! And note that I understand that other people need them etc and I recognize the need for solidarity.

What's your point then? You know other people need these services but you're going to have a whine about them anyway?

Cookie_Monster · 23-12-2010 02:08PM

Nody wrote: »

Care to back that up that number with more then a guess in an article from a certain newspaper?

I worked in Finance in the Head Office for two years, but not going to post specific private numbers like that on this site.

lasnoufle · 23-12-2010 05:47PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

What's your point then? You know other people need these services but you're going to have a whine about them anyway?

Well my point is that at the moment, I completely disagree with the way these services work, because I don't think they provide good value for the money I pay (well for me obviously because I don't use any, but also for others who need them)... But I can't stop paying for it the way I could for a private service.
Also I said I recognize the need for solidarity, but I never said that I think the Irish public service & social system is good, like you seem to suggest.
And then, not trying troll here but I'll exagerate on purpose, people here seem to think they need lots of things. If I tell you I need a Ferrari, will you help me buy it for the sake of solidarity? I don't think so. Well, some things people "need" here are like Ferrari in my eyes.

But this is off topic, and I've made my point on the topic already, my opinion being that prices are high because people are paid a lot, and not the other way around. And that without large scale self-discipline, prices will only go down after people get less money home (for whatever reason).

paddy145 · 11-01-2011 11:18AM

limklad wrote: »

You have not stated where you are getting your Data from? Without it even when your comments are written in BOLD, It still is just hot air with no substance. Verifiable data only

Eurostat, their report sparked this thread, heres a link to a SEI report that breaks it down further http://www.seai.ie/Publications/Statistics_Publications/EPSSU_Publications/Electricity_and_Gas_Prices/Electricity_and_Gas_Prices_in_Ireland_january_to_june.pdf

femur61 · 11-01-2011 10:00PM

And people wonder why our tourism is falling at an alarming rate.

Low Energy Eng · 11-01-2011 10:32PM

Irelands currently going through a correction period, when we're more competitive things will start moving again, unfortunately this takes time, it wont happen overnight as we've bailed out the banks, so what we have is a drawn out correction period, should they not have been bailed out I'd say things would be alot more competitive.

Ah well, drive on

Fighting Irish · 11-01-2011 11:50PM

Customers set the prices!

prices 31%higher than EU average

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