prices 31%higher than EU average

galway2007

So it is proven once again that the Irish people are still being ripped off by private sector employers, and there products cost 31% more in Ireland.
Can any person give me a reason why???
We keep hearing that we have got competitive due to wage reduction in the private sector, but if those wage reduction did happen why have prices not fallen???
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/living-standards-fall-but-prices-still-31pc-higher-than-eu-average-2462606.html
It is time that this private sector rip off is stopped and if needed there should slash there employee wage by 30%
If this is allowed to go on we will have no tourism and we will have no foreign investment in Ireland
I ask again how long more will the private sector be allowed to screw the Irish people like they have for the last 10 year so they can keep there massive profits and wages
No wonder people are saving there money and I hope people keep doing that until those that are ripping us off reduce there prices or are forced to close down

Riskymove

taxes and levies etc are a significant factor in these price differentials

e.g. car prices, cigarettes etc

Fat_Fingers

You trying to wind people up with another Private vs public? Please, we had enough of it so far.

P.S. take it easy with font size.

ei.sdraob

Our high energy costs are one reason for the high costs, lets not have another PS bashing thread :cool:

despite all the inflation CSO recorded continuing inflation in energy sectors :mad:

of course the people of this country are not aware of the scam

galway2007

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

You trying to wind people up with another Private vs public? Please, we had enough of it so far.

P.S. take it easy with font size.

NO NO NO I would not do that
It has got worse we are now being ripped off even more since the recession started
Since 2007 the gap had widened and yes the state has some input in to it
The point is how so we get people back working when we are not competitive????

gurramok

"Health and education were each 56pc dearer in Ireland than elsewhere in Europe;"

Have they ever decreased in the last 10 years?

padma

galway2007 wrote: »

NO NO NO I would not do that
It has got worse we are now being ripped off even more since the recession started
Since 2007 the gap had widened and yes the state has some input in to it
The point is how so we get people back working when we are not competitive????

You want to cut peoples wages by 30% so companies get even bigger profits and widen the gap even further between rich and poor, doesn't make sense. In the dream that employers will create more jobs because they are getting bigger profits. Don't think so. 30% less wages means money will only be spent on the bare essentials, thus negating the need for all luxury goods and money spent on entertainment etc etc etc, thus further putting a knife in to businesses already struggling to survive.

zig

tbh, im happy to hear those figures. Its further proof that we're not all living in this cloud cuckoo land where we believe we're entitled to more than everyone else in Europe. I wonder does that take into account the fact that we're being ripped off with the combination of VRT and motor tax, not to mention our rip off insurance costs.

padma

I'd say it's about time the government reigned in on those insurance companies extorting people.

PeakOutput

galway2007 wrote: »

NO NO NO I would not do that
It has got worse we are now being ripped off even more since the recession started
Since 2007 the gap had widened and yes the state has some input in to it
The point is how so we get people back working when we are not competitive????

lack of competitiveness is more then 50% the fault of the goverment, there are definitely business owners out there who are still charging way over the odds but on the whole its the goverments policies and employees ridicolous expectations that make us uncompetitive

PeakOutput

padma wrote: »

I'd say it's about time the government reigned in on those insurance companies extorting people.

have you seen the accounts of any of the large insurance companies from the last 3/4 years?

padma

PeakOutput wrote: »

have you seen the accounts of any of the large insurance companies from the last 3/4 years?

I haven't to be perfectly honest.

Cookie_Monster

while higher wages, transport costs, taxes, rent, rates, energy costs, disposal costs and bureaucracy costs add a lot to the cost of products but shops over here still gouge prices a good bit more than other markets.

Tesco, for example, have a profit percentage that's the second highest in their world operations only after Korea.
Garages are the same, when you get quotes from the North they are generally significantly cheaper.

keithclancy

Interesting that the last bit was skipped over:

However, the report finds that Ireland remains one of the richest countries in the EU in terms of GDP per capita adjusted to reflect purchasing power in different countries.

At the time these statistics where taken, Ireland had a high GDP hence high prices. The spending power of the individual is what drives the price.

In Germany for example, stuff is cheap because your take home pay after duductions is basically half your gross.

Dan_Solo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tesco, for example, have a profit percentage that's the second highest in their world operations only after Korea.

Is that North or South Korea?:D

gimli2112

Stopped reading when OP spelled "their" as "there"

Dan_Solo

gimli2112 wrote: »

Stopped reading when OP spelled "their" as "there"

I stopped caring about your nitpicking spellcheck pedantry when you left out the full stop.

zig

gimli2112 wrote: »

Stopped reading when OP spelled "their" as "there"

Id say you get through reading these forums quite quickly if thats enough to make you stop reading a post.

lasnoufle

galway2007 wrote: »

So it is proven once again that the Irish people are still being ripped off by private sector employers, and there products cost 31% more in Ireland.
Can any person give me a reason why???

I can: it's because people are still happy to pay the price. Stop buying, stop showing companies that you don't have a clue about what value is, and the prices will fall, simple as that.

snubbleste

Link to original eurostat report?

We are one of the richest countries in the EU still. There are a lot of countries in E. Europe that drag the EU average down significantly, hence you'd expect Irish prices to be way above the average.

zig

lasnoufle wrote: »

I can: it's because people are still happy to pay the price. Stop buying, stop showing companies that you don't have a clue about what value is, and the prices will fall, simple as that.

Unfortunately its not as simple as that when there are certain things you have to buy, i.e. food, petrol,insurance.

However you are correct regarding the luxuries, like booze. And in fairness, people have voted with their cash in that regard, i.e. pubs getting desperate for business, so price of pints are finally dropping nicely.

gurramok

keithclancy wrote: »

Interesting that the last bit was skipped over:

At the time these statistics where taken, Ireland had a high GDP hence high prices.

Try GNP to be reflective of reality.

paddy145

I think it worth noting that residential: electricity prices for a typical household (Band DD 5,000-15,000 kWh/annum incl. VAT)) have improved compared with the second half of 2009:
Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average. This compares with 2% below for the last semester and are now on a par with the EU27 average versus 7% above last semester.
.

lasnoufle

zig wrote: »

Unfortunately its not as simple as that when there are certain things you have to buy, i.e. food, petrol,insurance.

However you are correct regarding the luxuries, like booze. And in fairness, people have voted with their cash in that regard, i.e. pubs getting desperate for business, so price of pints are finally dropping nicely.

I don't agree with the first part, it's exactly what I'm talking about, "happy" is maybe the wrong word, but you're, let's say, "not unhappy enough" to stop buying things.

Of course you have to buy food, just take cheaper stuff until the food chain gets bored of losing money and adjusts their prices. Of course you can say you're worth more than the cheapest stuff - good for you, but at the moment in Ireland, you get ripped off exactly because you think that.

Now of course, this would have to be done at a large scale to have any significant impact, and I'd say the Irish in general have this "worth more than that" mentality too much so that's a lost cause, and the only way to drive prices to more reasonable levels is to cut through people incomes - if they don't get that money, they won't spend it! It's what's happening at the moment, I'm checking how much I spend on food these days and it's significantly lower than last year. Now of course I'm not saying I'm happy that people get less money, but well if there's no other way to educate them...

gurramok

paddy145 wrote: »

I think it worth noting that residential: electricity prices for a typical household (Band DD 5,000-15,000 kWh/annum incl. VAT)) have improved compared with the second half of 2009:
Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average. This compares with 2% below for the last semester and are now on a par with the EU27 average versus 7% above last semester.
.

You sure about that? http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

As I can see from that link, 5th highest for the consumer in the whole of the EU27.

In the top 2 of industrial electricity pricing in the whole of the EU27. For an economy thats bust, that needs to come down.

paddy145

gurramok wrote: »

You sure about that? http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

As I can see from that link, 5th highest for the consumer in the whole of the EU27.

In the top 2 of industrial electricity pricing in the whole of the EU27. For an economy thats bust, that needs to come down.

Those prices are November 09 which was what I was comparing the current price to, but you are correct in saying the industrial prices are still well above average (approx 5% above I think)

PeakOutput

padma wrote: »

I haven't to be perfectly honest.

well they are public companies you can have a look cause at least one of them has been barely scraping by the last 2/3 years. they could of course have force redundancies but then they would be villianised for that too

ei.sdraob

gurramok wrote: »

You sure about that? http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

As I can see from that link, 5th highest for the consumer in the whole of the EU27.

In the top 2 of industrial electricity pricing in the whole of the EU27. For an economy thats bust, that needs to come down.

Interesting how Denmark despite having invested decades and billions into wind has one of the highest energy costs. Now our fools want to repeat the same mistakes at a time when this country is broke.

Geuze

Here are some links to the Eurostat data:


See page 5 of this report:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-SF-10-062/EN/KS-SF-10-062-EN.PDF


Food, beverages, and tobacco prices:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Comparative_price_levels_for_food,_beverages_and_tobacco

Elec prices, 2010

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-QA-10-046/EN/KS-QA-10-046-EN.PDF


Gas prices, 2010:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-QA-10-047/EN/KS-QA-10-047-EN.PDF

PeakOutput

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Interesting how Denmark despite having invested decades and billions into wind has one of the highest energy costs. Now our fools want to repeat the same mistakes at a time when this country is broke.

read the energy dependancy table when you scroll down on that same page

edit; their prices to industry per unit are also cheaper then irelands and the consumer price includes taxes and vat, i beleive denmarks taxes and vat are higher then ours, in fact wiki says denmark is the most taxed nation in the world

gurramok

Tobacco, health, education, council rates and price of cars(VRT) are govt controlled. Commercial rents due to greed of the bubble years. Residential rents are high due govt intervention(Rent Supplement)

Alcoholic beverages is a combination of cartel operations in the pub trade and high excise/VAT but yet prices have probably fallen in the off trade over the years.

Gas & electricity to a certain extent are both govt controlled & prone to external factors.

Supermarket pricing is high(or was) due to cartel operations of the big multiples.

See the trend in alot of sectors? Lack of competition due to lack of regulation and along with greed is down to FF policies encouraging such greed.

Japer

Despite the overhead of high energy costs (no surprise when people in the ESB are paid up to 750,000 per year ) , high vat rates and the cost of supporting (and nobody can argue otherwise ) a highly paid public sector, private sector prices are on the floor, as witnessed by the large numbers of firms closing / not making money.

As regards food, clothing and shelter :

• Aldi + Lidl + Tesco does not vary that much between the different countries.
• Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany.
• A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
  http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384

In Germany people usually rent apartments ; the average public servant there cannot buy an apartment there with just one years gross salary.

So thats food, clothing + shelter.

Things like the television licence are high because there are so many fat-cats in RTE who pay themselves double what the US president makes. There are 200 quangos in the country which have to be supported. The country has less taxpayers who pay income tax than there are tax payers in a medium size city abroad, yet we think we should have embassies dotted here there and everywhere ....and still borrow 700 million a year to spend on government "overseas aid".
As Bob Geldof used to sing " Banana Republic..." ....except we do'nt have the bananas.

ei.sdraob

PeakOutput wrote: »

read the energy dependancy table when you scroll down on that same page

edit; their prices to industry per unit are also cheaper then irelands and the consumer price includes taxes and vat, i beleive denmarks taxes and vat are higher then ours, in fact wiki says denmark is the most taxed nation in the world

that only further adds to my point! winds variability is useless at reducing energy costs especially in a market that doesn't prioritize lower price and efficiency

1. they often export the energy for free which is a waste and subsidises other economies
2. rising fuel prices would still negatively affect them too since they don't all drive electric cars, and their industry still relies on fossil fuels.
3. we will endup with higher taxes and less services to show for than them thanks to the current bunch in government, same lot who you are so blindly putting faith into to lead you into a free energy utopia
4. they manufacture turbines, we dont
5. they are next to europes largest economy, we cant even build inter-connectors without wasting money


instead of learning from their mistakes we are repeating them but from a much worse standpoint at a time when we are being run by the IMF

PeakOutput

ei.sdraob wrote: »

that only further adds to my point! winds variability is useless at reducing energy costs especially in a market that doesn't prioritize lower price and efficiency

1. they often export the energy for free which is a waste and subsidises other economies
2. rising fuel prices would still negatively affect them too since they don't all drive electric cars, and their industry still relies on fossil fuels.
3. we will endup with higher taxes and less services to show for than them thanks to the current bunch in government, same lot who you are so blindly putting faith into to lead you into a free energy utopia
4. they manufacture turbines, we dont
5. they are next to europes largest economy, we cant even build inter-connectors without wasting money


instead of learning from their mistakes we are repeating them but from a much worse standpoint at a time when we are being run by the IMF

im not the one being blind dude. i am willing to bet that if you remove their taxes and ours from the energy unit costs for households theirs will be cheaper

their industry uses the same grid as the rest of the country, that grid is 25% wind and aims to be something like 95% wind by 2025

denmark is smaller and more populated then ireland so there is no reason why that target is not attainable by us.

every penny that is spent in denmark on electicity by either a business or an individual stays in the country,plus a bit, IF wind is more expensive then fossil fuels(which it isnt in the long term) then that is worth it

having a **** goverment is not a good enough reason for not making the right decisions. if the right decision for energy is wind it stays the right decision regardless of who is in power. if you dont trust the goverment to do it right, change the goverment. if you dont trust the goverment to do it right how do you trust them to do nuclear right?

of course they dont all drive electronic cars, however that is obviously going to change over the next 25 years.

not that it matters but there is no reason we cant manufacture turbines, but even if we decide not to the once of import is worth the extra money to be free from massive amounts of constant imports

this is the wrong thread for this anyway but its the last im going to say on the matter in either thread, i think you are being extremely short sighted, you think im buying into the greens propaganda(i dont think iv ever listened to or read an entire green statement in my life) we can disagree thats fine, you think they have made mistakes, maybe they have but overall they are doing far far better on the energy matter then ireland. only time will tell who is right

Idbatterim

Op, government related services have gone up and up and up in price recently, private sectors have come down. The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

irishh_bob

Idbatterim wrote: »

Op, government related services have gone up and up and up in price recently, private sectors have come down. The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

they are also responsible for preventing real competition from existing in certain sectors of the so called private sectors , GP,s , dentists , consultants , various sheltered sectors of economy

ardmacha

The goverment here is largely responsible for the high cost of business.

This is actually nonsense. Yes the government imposes costs on people in various ways, and the exact tax strucutre can vary a bit from other places, but it does not take a larger chunk of GNP in tax than any other West European country. So the overall impact of government should be similar, even if there are detailed differences.

they are also responsible for preventing real competition from existing in certain sectors of the so called private sectors , GP,s , dentists , consultants , various sheltered sectors of economy

These sectors are quite capable of restricting competition by themselves. Perhaps what you mean is that the government does not do enough to stop them, which is not quite the same thing.

PeakOutput

ardmacha wrote: »

So the overall impact of government should be similar, even if there are detailed differences.
.

thats not an entirely accurate assumption, were from and how the goverment takes its cut is very important

ardmacha

thats not an entirely accurate assumption, were from and how the goverment takes its cut is very important

It might be somewhat important, but does not account for anything like a 31% difference. Yet there is tremendous resistance to organising taxes with water charges etc in a similar way to other countries.

But if I was the new government I would try my best to increase competition and so normalise price levels.

Japer

ardmacha wrote: »

But if I was the new government I would try my best to increase competition and so normalise price levels.

The government tried to increase competition in the banking sector during the Tiger years, and we had new entrants to the market like Bank of Scotland and Halifax ; see how that ended up. There was too much competition to give out loans if anything. As regards food, clothing and shelter, there is plenty of competition as shown earlier : ( eg Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany. A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384 )

The real area where competition / value for money needs to come is the value for money the taxpayer gets from the public sector. Also semi states like the ESB, which have some of the highest electricity prices in the world - no surprise when salaries there are up to € 750,000 .

Nody

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tesco, for example, have a profit percentage that's the second highest in their world operations only after Korea.

Care to back that up that number with more then a guess in an article from a certain newspaper?

BeeDI

Prices in Ireland HAVE come down fairly dramatically over the past couple of years, in a good number of areas.
Cars are much, much better value even excluding scrappage scheme effect.
Car servicing MUCH, MUCH, MUCH cheaper. Real competition in this area.
General house and property maintenance cheaper.
Overall weekly food and consumable supplies cheaper. Compared to nearest neighbour still expensive.

murphaph

Japer wrote: »

Despite the overhead of high energy costs (no surprise when people in the ESB are paid up to 750,000 per year ) , high vat rates and the cost of supporting (and nobody can argue otherwise ) a highly paid public sector, private sector prices are on the floor, as witnessed by the large numbers of firms closing / not making money.

As regards food, clothing and shelter :

• Aldi + Lidl + Tesco does not vary that much between the different countries.
• Pennys in Ireland sells clothes cheaper than anywhere in Germany.
• A years gross average public sector pay here in Ireland can buy a fine brand new 2 bedroom apartment. http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=567837
  http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=8384

In Germany people usually rent apartments ; the average public servant there cannot buy an apartment there with just one years gross salary.

So thats food, clothing + shelter.

Things like the television licence are high because there are so many fat-cats in RTE who pay themselves double what the US president makes. There are 200 quangos in the country which have to be supported. The country has less taxpayers who pay income tax than there are tax payers in a medium size city abroad, yet we think we should have embassies dotted here there and everywhere ....and still borrow 700 million a year to spend on government "overseas aid".
As Bob Geldof used to sing " Banana Republic..." ....except we do'nt have the bananas.

Good post but I'd remind folks that the German TV licence is ALSO more expensive than the Irish one AND I'd like to know where the myth that energy costs so much more in Ireland came from...

MY ELECTRICITY IN BERLIN COSTS 22.5c/kWh.
The ESB (not the cheapest) costs app. 16c/kWh.

My gas is also more expensive than what people pay Bord Gais and Diesel for the car only became more expensive after the budget in Ireland. It was cheaper in Ireland until this month.

Energy in Ireland simply dies not cost more than Germany, in fact it's cheaper for electricity and gas. Perhaps the real problem is that the expectations of average Irish workers are much higher (for no reason other than "we're Irish") than the expectations of German workers.

Nobody here really expects they'll ever be able to afford a 3 bed semi in the suburbs. It happens for people eventually but only (typically) after many years of saving. Irish people got used to instant gratification during the boom years. No saving for anything, just slap it on the CC and hope for the best. people then took this lax attitude to debt and applied it to the biggest purchases of their lives and hence we have people on fairly ordinary wages with half million Euro mortgages.

gurramok

murphaph wrote: »

Energy in Ireland simply dies not cost more than Germany, in fact it's cheaper for electricity and gas. Perhaps the real problem is that the expectations of average Irish workers are much higher (for no reason other than "we're Irish") than the expectations of German workers.

There has to be a distinction between residential and industrial electricity when discussing costs

Though I do think my lecky bill in the apt with hardly any usage is high as its split between day and night usage where i get screwed on day units using the washing machine/heating from 09:00hr to 24:00hr!!

As per earlier link, 2nd highest in the EU for industrial electricity and that's not good for costs at all.

galway2007

So on this thread we are hearing the same crap as we heard over the past 10 year that it is the cost of doing business that is causing the 31% difference.
That is a load of crap
The fact is that the Irish people are screwed by greed from the private sector employers
They even screw us on the exchange rates when they are converting to Euro
So form now on I suggest that when you are looking at pay rate in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe that you start off by allowing a 31% allowance for people being screwed by the Irish private sector greed
Yea are very quick to attack the public sector and there wages, while the high wages that the private sector are paid come from screwing the last penny out of people

lasnoufle

Well I think that what you don't get is, if I'm not happy with the prices in the private sector because I don't think they bring good value for the money I spend, I have the choice not to pay (and as I said before, I do it, and I believe everything would be cheaper if other people did it too instead of complaining). And yes, I'm saying that YOU should stop buying if you think it's expensive.

Now what choice do I have If I'm not happy with public sector services? None. I still have to pay for them. Even if I don't use them! And note that I understand that other people need them etc and I recognize the need for solidarity.

limklad

paddy145 wrote: »

I think it worth noting that residential: electricity prices for a typical household (Band DD 5,000-15,000 kWh/annum incl. VAT)) have improved compared with the second half of 2009:
Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average. This compares with 2% below for the last semester and are now on a par with the EU27 average versus 7% above last semester.
.

gurramok wrote: »

You sure about that? http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

As I can see from that link, 5th highest for the consumer in the whole of the EU27.

In the top 2 of industrial electricity pricing in the whole of the EU27. For an economy thats bust, that needs to come down.

I plotted the figures into excel and did a EU average and EU-15 comparison.


Gas in Ireland is far more expensive to nearly double. Electricity is on par with EU15 but dearer on EU average by 10-20%. It is surprising that Gas is more expensive since we are moving from coal/peat/oil to gas electricity generation, which will more likely increase Electricity prices in the near future.

paddy145

limklad wrote: »

I plotted the figures into excel and did a EU average and EU-15 comparison.


Gas in Ireland is far more expensive to nearly double. Electricity is on par with EU15 but dearer on EU average by 10-20%. It is surprising that Gas is more expensive since we are moving from coal/peat/oil to gas electricity generation, which will more likely increase Electricity prices in the near future.

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

Fat_Fingers

paddy145 wrote: »

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

is that you Padraig McManus?

paddy145

LOL, I thought I might get that response, but what I say is true. I agree his wages are absurd though and im not trying to justify them.

limklad

paddy145 wrote: »

AGAIN, those prices are November 2009, over a year old. Lets get this straight as it currently stands:

Irish prices are now 7% below the Eurozone average for Residential.

Irish prices are now 9% below the Eurozone average for small-medium enterprise.

Irish prices are now 5% above the Eurozone average for Industrial.

And prices would be even lower on average if ESB was currently not being forced to maintain them at a higher level to encourage people to switch supplier. I think its time this idea of expensive electricity was given up.

You have not stated where you are getting your Data from? Without it even when your comments are written in BOLD, It still is just hot air with no substance. Verifiable data only