Abortion under the spotlight in the European Court of Human Rights

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:16AM

Nodin wrote: »

Fuck knows, tbh. Women who admit to not being arsed would be rarer than langers on cows....

The numbers of women procuring a second or further abortion in the UK these days would suggest otherwise.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6335880.ece

46 women on their eighth or more abortion....

curlzy · 16-12-2010 11:16AM

I'm pro-choice myself but I think it's very interesting to hear other people views on the subject. I think alot of people that may be pro-choice don't bother speaking out because it hasn't touched on their life whereas alot of people that are pro-life do speak out even though it's never touched their lives, I'm wondering if alot of pro-lifers come from a religious frame of mind. It would be interesting to know.

Nodin · 16-12-2010 11:17AM

prinz wrote: »

Are you comparing an adult with the mentally disabled and children? Slight difference there.

Did it occur to you that a woman "unable to cope" could well have mental issues of one type or another, or is that too much of a stretch...?

orourkeda wrote:

Perhaps you should also take a court case of behalf of mother who got pregnant as a result of a drunken one night stand and is looking for an easy way out. .

Why is it that the lowest common denominator comes out so early in these threads? The classic stereotype of the 'drunken hussy' eager to kill the product of her wanton behaviour....

Why is it abortion is seen as an "easy way out"? Where did this notion come from?

curlzy · 16-12-2010 11:17AM

prinz wrote: »

The numbers of women procuring a second or further abortion in the UK these days would suggest otherwise.

Link? Stats? Genuinely interested.

orourkeda · 16-12-2010 11:17AM

bluewolf wrote: »

That's right, punish those irresponsible women by making them have a child.

Or punish the child for the mistakes of its mother?

Sisko · 16-12-2010 11:19AM

Its a bit embarrassing as a modern country women still don't have a choice.

I think its only a matter of time though as things progress.

Remember it wasn't even that long ago when divorce was illegal.

omahaid · 16-12-2010 11:19AM

bluewolf wrote: »

That's right, punish those irresponsible women by making them have a child.

The opposite is true too - don't punish the child because of what the mother did.

Nodin · 16-12-2010 11:20AM

orourkeda wrote: »

Women dont have regrets about getting pregnant in your world.

regrets about being pregnant =/= "couldn't be arsed"

prinz wrote:

The numbers of women procuring a second or further abortion in the UK these days would suggest otherwise.

And that automatically translates to "couldn't be arsed"? I think not.

16-12-2010 11:21AM

omahaid wrote: »

The opposite is true too - don't punish the child because of what the mother did.

By making it grow up with a mother who feels she can't cope or get thrown out for adoption? Yeah, totally agree

smk89 · 16-12-2010 11:21AM

curlzy wrote: »

I'm pro-choice myself but I think it's very interesting to hear other people views on the subject. I think alot of people that may be pro-choice don't bother speaking out because it hasn't touched on their life whereas alot of people that are pro-life do speak out even though it's never touched their lives, I'm wondering if alot of pro-lifers come from a religious frame of mind. It would be interesting to know.

Considering most people using this forum are male, <25 and agnostic/atheist they may not represent the country as a whole. Personally I have a cup of tea in one hand and am waiting for the inevitable comparison to nazies to begin.

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:21AM

Nodin wrote: »

Did it occur to you that a woman "unable to cope" could well have mental issues of one type or another, or is that too much of a stretch...?

They just decided to leave that piece of information out of it did they?

curlzy wrote: »

Link? Stats? Genuinely interested.

As above. I can why a woman may find herself in a position where a pregnancy would not be desirable. I could understand a woman in such a scenario having an abortion. I cannot understand the same woman having multiple abortions. While it is good to see the numbers falling, it is deeply worrying that there seems to be a significant number of women/people who see abortion as something to be done over and over..

Fratton Fred · 16-12-2010 11:21AM

Good to see a bit of good old fashioned sexism.

Mistakes of the mother ffs, unless I am out of touch, it does in fact take two people to make a baby.

MrStuffins · 16-12-2010 11:22AM

GARCON!!!!!

MORE POPCORN OVER HERE!!!!

orourkeda · 16-12-2010 11:22AM

Nodin wrote: »

Did it occur to you that a woman "unable to cope" could well have mental issues of one type or another, or is that too much of a stretch...?

Why is it that the lowest common denominator comes out so early in these threads? The classic stereotype of the 'drunken hussy' eager to kill the product of her wanton behaviour....

Why is it abortion is seen as an "easy way out"? Where did this notion come from?

Simply put a woman who cant cope with pregnancy shouldnt get pregnant. God knows theres enough help out there for women to avoid pregnancy and taking responsibility for her own sex life is surely the way to go.

You're a person throwing around hypothetical situations to suit your argument as well. Why are you putting down situations that don't suit you. Only a fool would suggest that pregnancies dont occur in less than ideal circumstances. It's called an easy way out because they cant handle the results of their irresponsible behaviour and try and remove the consequences of their actions.

Nodin · 16-12-2010 11:22AM

orourkeda wrote: »

Or punish the child for the mistakes of its mother?

"mistakes of its Parents" . It - or so I'm informed - takes two to conceive a child. One of them, astounding as you may find it, is required to be male. I realise this interrupts the narrative of the 'wanton hussy' who must be reigned in, but I didn't invent the process.

16-12-2010 11:22AM

prinz wrote: »

As above. I can why a woman may find herself in a position where a pregnancy would not be desirable. I could understand a woman in such a scenario having an abortion. I cannot understand the same woman having multiple abortions.

In my ideal world, sex education including contraceptives would be much more comprehensive in schools so that this whole issue shouldn't have to come up, or at least as little as possible.
Only way to get anywhere in this whole debate.

curlzy · 16-12-2010 11:23AM

orourkeda wrote: »

Or punish the child for the mistakes of its mother?

A foetus isn't a child, a foetus is a foetus IMO.

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:24AM

Nodin wrote: »

And that automatically translates to "couldn't be arsed"? I think not.

So these women just accidentally, and completely beyond their control, fell pregnant 4, 5, 6, 7....8.... times?

omahaid · 16-12-2010 11:25AM

bluewolf wrote: »

By making it grow up with a mother who feels she can't cope or get thrown out for adoption? Yeah, totally agree

How can you know how a "hypothetical" mother will feel? Is adoption so bad in your opinion?

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:25AM

Nodin wrote: »

"mistakes of its Parents" . It - or so I'm informed - takes two to conceive a child. One of them, astounding as you may find it, is required to be male. I realise this interrupts the narrative of the 'wanton hussy' who must be reigned in, but I didn't invent the process.

Presumably then, if abortion were to be fully available you would give the male party and equal say in whether or not a abortion should be carried out?

Lumen · 16-12-2010 11:25AM

Unwanted babies should not be terminated but instead form the basis of our future cyborg army in the War Against The Machines.

common sense brigade · 16-12-2010 11:26AM

get thrown out for adoption?

Sorry but being adopted is not being thrown out. My mother was unable to cope and her brothers adopted me and took care of me. Had abortion been the norm here I wouldnt have a life.

A foetus isn't a child, a foetus is a foetus IMO

This is a cop out. A foetus is an unborn baby with all the feeling and potential in the world...

orourkeda · 16-12-2010 11:26AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Good to see a bit of good old fashioned sexism.

Mistakes of the mother ffs, unless I am out of touch, it does in fact take two people to make a baby.

They hardly grew there did they?

Sometimes blokes hit the road at the first wind of pregnancy. These things happen. Unfortunately sometimes the woman is left holding the baby quite literally. Surely a reason for women to take further responsibility

Dravokivich · 16-12-2010 11:26AM

bluewolf wrote: »

In my ideal world, sex education including contraceptives would be much more comprehensive in schools so that this whole issue shouldn't have to come up, or at least as little as possible.
Only way to get anywhere in this whole debate.

I don't get that arguement, kids are told sex causes pregnancy and have been for a long time in schools. It's not that hard to understand.

Anything about contraceptives and safe sex I feel should be the responsiblity of parents as it could lead to comprimising discussion, I would prefer a teacher didn't lead into.

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:27AM

bluewolf wrote: »

In my ideal world, sex education including contraceptives would be much more comprehensive in schools so that this whole issue shouldn't have to come up, or at least as little as possible.
Only way to get anywhere in this whole debate.

I agree to certain extent. I think the teaching of biology should also be taught linked in to sex ed.

Nodin · 16-12-2010 11:27AM

orourkeda wrote: »

Simply put a woman who cant cope with pregnancy shouldnt get pregnant..

And if they had the sense to know that, they probably could cope with pregnancy......

orourkeda wrote: »

You're a person throwing around hypothetical situations to suit your argument as well..

I'm pointing out the holes in the plot. The fact that you seem fixated on stereotypes that I thought vanished with the 80's is rather a large one.

orourkeda wrote: »

It's called an easy way out because they cant handle the results of their irresponsible behaviour and try and remove the consequences of their actions.

...which of course they all do with a laugh, a giggle and a skip into the clinic, hussys that they are.

orourkeda · 16-12-2010 11:28AM

curlzy wrote: »

A foetus isn't a child, a foetus is a foetus IMO.

What difference does that make? Its alive.

optogirl · 16-12-2010 11:28AM

prinz wrote: »

So these women just accidentally, and completely beyond their control, fell pregnant 4, 5, 6, 7....8.... times?

People who have 8 abortions are in the minority - very much so. It is highly unlikely that any woman would relish the thought of going through a very serious medical procedure because she simpy can't be bothered to have the child. Abortion is not a decision that any right-minded human takes lightly. Granted, there are plenty of folk out there who are not right-minded and may, due to lack of education, cop on or misinformation, use it as a form of contraception but again, this would be very much the minority of people.

prinz · 16-12-2010 11:30AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Anything about contraceptives and safe sex I feel should be the responsiblity of parents as it could lead to comprimising discussion, I would prefer a teacher didn't lead into.

That would be great if parents were accepting that responsibility. A lot don't, and where the parents fail the State has to step in IMO.

common sense brigade · 16-12-2010 11:30AM

Where do we draw the line do we allow abortions at 20 weeks
have you actually seen a scan of the development of a baby at 4 months (Yes its a baby not a fetus)
At the end of 4 months:Fetus is 6-1/2 to 7 inches long

Weighs about 6 to 7 ounces
Fetus is developing reflexes such as sucking and swallowing. Fetus may begin sucking his/her thumb
Tooth buds are developing
Sweat glands are forming on palms and soles
Fingers are well defined
Sex is identifiable
Skin is bright pink, transparent and covered with soft, downy hair
Although recognizably human in appearnace, the baby would not be able to survive outside the mother's bod

Abortion under the spotlight in the European Court of Human Rights

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